The SEO Marketplace - here goes nothing...

[kwerner]

This damn forum won't let me post a reply, maybe this screenshot will work...




It's pretty damn pathetic when you have to take a screen shot to post a reply, haha. I'm assuming it has something to do with keyword filters in the forum software, either that or my IP address is on the stopforumspam list, haha.

 

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[5starvisibility]

bernieshawn, we tried contacting you about possibly buying this website through your website. Please let us know if you received our message, as there was an error on the website.

 

[LightHouse]

I thought when this launched this was filling a very large open need. I thought this was going to be a marketplace to replace the major IM forums buy sell links areas. There is a HUGE need for an independent site that handles that separate of all the forums, not another quote website for expensive SEO companies. Think a flippa for buying and selling link packets. I was watching this close because thats what i thought this was, turns out not so much!

You have a great domain and what looks like skills to make a great looking website, maybe a slight change of business plan will send you into outerspace with this. Centralize and replace those forum marketplaces, flippa was created from the buy/sell sites section of sitepoint. You'll be rolling in traffic in no time.

 

[bernieshawn]

I thought when this launched this was filling a very large open need. I thought this was going to be a marketplace to replace the major IM forums buy sell links areas. There is a HUGE need for an independent site that handles that separate of all the forums, not another quote website for expensive SEO companies. Think a flippa for buying and selling link packets. I was watching this close because thats what i thought this was, turns out not so much!

(first off, I just finished writing everything below and I didn't realize it was so much, so just in case you don't read to the bottom, I just wanted to say thanks for your reply!)

Well, that's what the original product was supposed to be. I think I went about it in the wrong order, maybe I was too eager to generate revenue?

I wanted to first get the service providers using the order management service. Then, once I had a good amount of service providers, I wanted to encourage them all to post sales threads to build the marketplace. Then, all I needed to do was get buyers to the site.

I think if I hadn't originally started out charging $50/month (although I did give away 10 free accounts to beta testers and was pretty generous with half-price review accounts), maybe I would have been able to get more service providers signed up. However, I did make it free after a couple months in order to get more service providers signed up.

The main problem that I ran into was that I got a decent amount of service providers signed up, especially after I made it free, but almost none of them actually used it. I wasn't able to get that much feedback about why, either. The original form builder was cumbersome, not very easy to use, and not great looking. The rest of the interface was decent looking, but not great. Also, it was unnecessarily complicated to get started with extra steps that could have been streamlined (you had to create a form, then create an order page for the form, then link them together).

I think that was the main problem that stopped people from using it. The other bit of feedback that I got from a couple people is that they didn't like all of the order and client details being stored on a 3rd party server. They wanted a self-hosted version. I always kept this in mind as something to do if I got enough requests (more on this later).

This is where the SEO quotes/lead gen thing came in. I think I was chasing money at that point -- I felt that earning 5-10% on $2,000/month+ SEO contracts would be MUCH more profitable than a $50/month SEO order management service with a relatively small market. That turned out to be, as I call it now, a "pure marketing business". You live and die by PPC, SEO, and advertising. You have no USP. In Economics terms, you're basically a "perfectly competitive" business. That's not to say that the business couldn't have been successful. It would have needed at least $10k in advertising money to get off the ground by attracting high quality leads that would actually (1) convert and (2) sign up for $2k+ a month. It's really just affiliate marketing with 1% more control (actually, you might even have less control -- it's pretty easy to screw a lead gen provider out of their commission if you're charging for successful signups, not leads).

After that, I went back and looked at the original SEO Marketplace order management service. I decided to completely update the design and streamline the flow for service providers. In my opinion, the new backend and order form builder is a million times better looking and easier to use than the original service. It's almost funny how much better it looks now.

Actually, here's a screenshot of the form builder before (and you can only see 2 fields out of 13 here):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kbxqygzh037b8ay/demo.png

Here's what the form builder looks like now:

http://www.theseomarketplace.com/wp-content/plugins/formbuilder/images/screenshots/field_editor.png

The difference with everything else isn't quite as dramatic, but it's a HUGE improvement. Plus the flow has been streamlined greatly and it's much easier to get started.

I also implemented other features, such as built-in affiliate programs for all services, XML and JSON order feeds, different order page themes, and more.

So, a couple months I relaunched it freemium style and got some interest and some signups. I talked to one guy who signed up and he was amazed that even the most expensive level was so cheap, at $65/month. He was also very interested in a self-hosted version.

So, now I'm starting to work on the self-hosted version. It seems like an easy transition, but do to the original coding, it is actually much more involved than you would think.

You have a great domain and what looks like skills to make a great looking website, maybe a slight change of business plan will send you into outerspace with this. Centralize and replace those forum marketplaces, flippa was created from the buy/sell sites section of sitepoint. You'll be rolling in traffic in no time.

Ok, so most of what I was going to say here I said above, but yeah, this was the original goal. I think lack of experience, lack of patience, possible wrong timing, and possibly the inferior product is what caused this idea to fail. I do still 100% think it's possible, so I'm still not ruling it out.

At first I though the self-hosted version could destroy this, but now I'm thinking that self-hosted people could still post their sales pages on SEO Marketplace and then I could send the order information straight to their server using an API type thing.

So, yeah, I also have a pretty decent idea in 2 hot tech spaces right now. It's an idea that would require me to step a million miles outside of my comfort zone most likely but I think it has way more scale potential than SEO Marketplace. It would probably be the biggest challenge I've ever taken on (although that might not be saying much :sigh but maybe it could yield the best return? I'm still not trusting myself and my ideas anymore, so I'm not sure if I should go 100% on it or if I should keep thinking... Well I have already taken some light action towards it but nothing serious, and nothing that would actually build the business.

So, new progress thread to come maybe...

(you know what, I just realized how long this is, if you read the whole thing, let me know and I will give you speed++ LOL)

 

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[LightHouse]

I know you spent a bunch of time writing this and I did read it all because I do think you have the potential to make something that will make a ton of traffic and money. I just don't understand how your mind works right now.

All this talk about self hosted... lead gen... dude.... what are you talking about. What you have no is a product that tons of other people have. What you should have, is a flippa/fiverr type site that people can post their sales pages on like they do on forums and take orders. I think you got close on what you orginally started. (BTW use bootstrap and bootstrapwrapper CSS classes to modernize those designs) but it fell apart. It really wouldnt take much to get the thing off the ground if you finished it either.

The merchants want their data give them a way to export it via CSV, don't get all technical with features. Get the base product out fast, spend a few bucks on advertising on the forums (or not at all really, you can turn out tons of word of mouth for this). I mean you could even find a fiverr clone script and utilize some of the base code from that. Take a small percentage of the sale, small enough that someone wont care... and roll it out. It really isn't near as complex as you are making it out to be.

You are an entrepreneur, don't second guess what you know so much. You know there is a need, you know what you are doing now isnt working, take the risk change it and reap the reward!

(first off, I just finished writing everything below and I didn't realize it was so much, so just in case you don't read to the bottom, I just wanted to say thanks for your reply!)

Well, that's what the original product was supposed to be. I think I went about it in the wrong order, maybe I was too eager to generate revenue?

I wanted to first get the service providers using the order management service. Then, once I had a good amount of service providers, I wanted to encourage them all to post sales threads to build the marketplace. Then, all I needed to do was get buyers to the site.

I think if I hadn't originally started out charging $50/month (although I did give away 10 free accounts to beta testers and was pretty generous with half-price review accounts), maybe I would have been able to get more service providers signed up. However, I did make it free after a couple months in order to get more service providers signed up.

The main problem that I ran into was that I got a decent amount of service providers signed up, especially after I made it free, but almost none of them actually used it. I wasn't able to get that much feedback about why, either. The original form builder was cumbersome, not very easy to use, and not great looking. The rest of the interface was decent looking, but not great. Also, it was unnecessarily complicated to get started with extra steps that could have been streamlined (you had to create a form, then create an order page for the form, then link them together).

I think that was the main problem that stopped people from using it. The other bit of feedback that I got from a couple people is that they didn't like all of the order and client details being stored on a 3rd party server. They wanted a self-hosted version. I always kept this in mind as something to do if I got enough requests (more on this later).

This is where the SEO quotes/lead gen thing came in. I think I was chasing money at that point -- I felt that earning 5-10% on $2,000/month+ SEO contracts would be MUCH more profitable than a $50/month SEO order management service with a relatively small market. That turned out to be, as I call it now, a "pure marketing business". You live and die by PPC, SEO, and advertising. You have no USP. In Economics terms, you're basically a "perfectly competitive" business. That's not to say that the business couldn't have been successful. It would have needed at least $10k in advertising money to get off the ground by attracting high quality leads that would actually (1) convert and (2) sign up for $2k+ a month. It's really just affiliate marketing with 1% more control (actually, you might even have less control -- it's pretty easy to screw a lead gen provider out of their commission if you're charging for successful signups, not leads).

After that, I went back and looked at the original SEO Marketplace order management service. I decided to completely update the design and streamline the flow for service providers. In my opinion, the new backend and order form builder is a million times better looking and easier to use than the original service. It's almost funny how much better it looks now.

Actually, here's a screenshot of the form builder before (and you can only see 2 fields out of 13 here):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kbxqygzh037b8ay/demo.png

Here's what the form builder looks like now:

http://www.theseomarketplace.com/wp-content/plugins/formbuilder/images/screenshots/field_editor.png

The difference with everything else isn't quite as dramatic, but it's a HUGE improvement. Plus the flow has been streamlined greatly and it's much easier to get started.

I also implemented other features, such as built-in affiliate programs for all services, XML and JSON order feeds, different order page themes, and more.

So, a couple months I relaunched it freemium style and got some interest and some signups. I talked to one guy who signed up and he was amazed that even the most expensive level was so cheap, at $65/month. He was also very interested in a self-hosted version.

So, now I'm starting to work on the self-hosted version. It seems like an easy transition, but do to the original coding, it is actually much more involved than you would think.




Ok, so most of what I was going to say here I said above, but yeah, this was the original goal. I think lack of experience, lack of patience, possible wrong timing, and possibly the inferior product is what caused this idea to fail. I do still 100% think it's possible, so I'm still not ruling it out.

At first I though the self-hosted version could destroy this, but now I'm thinking that self-hosted people could still post their sales pages on SEO Marketplace and then I could send the order information straight to their server using an API type thing.

So, yeah, I also have a pretty decent idea in 2 hot tech spaces right now. It's an idea that would require me to step a million miles outside of my comfort zone most likely but I think it has way more scale potential than SEO Marketplace. It would probably be the biggest challenge I've ever taken on (although that might not be saying much :sigh but maybe it could yield the best return? I'm still not trusting myself and my ideas anymore, so I'm not sure if I should go 100% on it or if I should keep thinking... Well I have already taken some light action towards it but nothing serious, and nothing that would actually build the business.

So, new progress thread to come maybe...

(you know what, I just realized how long this is, if you read the whole thing, let me know and I will give you speed++ LOL)

 

[bernieshawn]

I know you spent a bunch of time writing this and I did read it all because I do think you have the potential to make something that will make a ton of traffic and money. I just don't understand how your mind works right now.

All this talk about self hosted... lead gen... dude.... what are you talking about. What you have no is a product that tons of other people have. What you should have, is a flippa/fiverr type site that people can post their sales pages on like they do on forums and take orders. I think you got close on what you orginally started. (BTW use bootstrap and bootstrapwrapper CSS classes to modernize those designs) but it fell apart. It really wouldnt take much to get the thing off the ground if you finished it either.

The merchants want their data give them a way to export it via CSV, don't get all technical with features. Get the base product out fast, spend a few bucks on advertising on the forums (or not at all really, you can turn out tons of word of mouth for this). I mean you could even find a fiverr clone script and utilize some of the base code from that. Take a small percentage of the sale, small enough that someone wont care... and roll it out. It really isn't near as complex as you are making it out to be.

You are an entrepreneur, don't second guess what you know so much. You know there is a need, you know what you are doing now isnt working, take the risk change it and reap the reward!

Cool, sounds good. Actually this is already 90%+ built out (The SEO Marketplace | | The SEO Marketplace), so I just need to redesign it, change the homepage to be something like fiverr's, and make some tweaks in the code/backend.

Then, I need to get service providers signed up and using it to build up the list of services (this part shouldn't be too hard, just message all the service providers on existing forums). Then, I'll need to build up buyer traffic, which will probably be the more difficult task. (edit: I just realized that I have around 800 SEO buyer emails in my DB.... now what could I possibly use those for....:smxF

What would be the best way to charge a % fee per order? Should I collect all the money, take the %, then send the rest to the service providers on a weekly/bi-weekly/monthly basis?

Thanks so much for your advice!

 

[LightHouse]

Yeah your layout is ultra confusing right now, you need clear points of action. follow the success of fiverr on that one. the easier it is for people to buy and get their reports, the more they will buy.

I would collect the money then distribute the leftovers. The billing portion will be the toughest part of the code. like i said, dont mirror fiverr but replicate how it works, and tune it to what you need. traffic won't be hard to get, it will build quickly if your site provides the value it can. I would rather go to your site, click the category or tag of the type of links i am trying to get, see the offerings, buy it, then get my report on my account to view, then rate the seller.

I wouldn't hold their money that long, i do not know what is standard, but i would see what is standard and go with that. The providers will be easy to get, they want buyers, make it easy for them to create their offering on your site and they will put it up, once you have offerings up, getting buyers will be a bit more simple. You will need to encourage buyers to leave reviews as that is what sells these things the most.

Cool, sounds good. Actually this is already 90%+ built out (The SEO Marketplace | | The SEO Marketplace), so I just need to redesign it, change the homepage to be something like fiverr's, and make some tweaks in the code/backend.

Then, I need to get service providers signed up and using it to build up the list of services (this part shouldn't be too hard, just message all the service providers on existing forums). Then, I'll need to build up buyer traffic, which will probably be the more difficult task. (edit: I just realized that I have around 800 SEO buyer emails in my DB.... now what could I possibly use those for....:smxF

What would be the best way to charge a % fee per order? Should I collect all the money, take the %, then send the rest to the service providers on a weekly/bi-weekly/monthly basis?

Thanks so much for your advice!

 

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[bernieshawn]

Yeah your layout is ultra confusing right now, you need clear points of action. follow the success of fiverr on that one. the easier it is for people to buy and get their reports, the more they will buy.

I would collect the money then distribute the leftovers. The billing portion will be the toughest part of the code. like i said, dont mirror fiverr but replicate how it works, and tune it to what you need. traffic won't be hard to get, it will build quickly if your site provides the value it can. I would rather go to your site, click the category or tag of the type of links i am trying to get, see the offerings, buy it, then get my report on my account to view, then rate the seller.

I wouldn't hold their money that long, i do not know what is standard, but i would see what is standard and go with that. The providers will be easy to get, they want buyers, make it easy for them to create their offering on your site and they will put it up, once you have offerings up, getting buyers will be a bit more simple. You will need to encourage buyers to leave reviews as that is what sells these things the most.

Yeah, this is all built out (even reviews) except for the billing.... it just needs a redesign and maybe a better pre-purchase private messaging system.

I'm going to try to make these changes as soon as I can, but I intern with a startup during the week, school starts next week, and I'm trying to figure out how to pursue another idea. Looks like I'm going to be busy.

 

[LightHouse]

I would focus on one idea vs burning time looking at two things. You have a potentially successful business on your hands, You are going to need focus if you want to put it out and really hit a home run. Your other option is to sell it to the poster above who is looking to buy it, lol.

 

[bernieshawn]

I would focus on one idea vs burning time looking at two things. You have a potentially successful business on your hands, You are going to need focus if you want to put it out and really hit a home run. Your other option is to sell it to the poster above who is looking to buy it, lol.

I'm going to get to work on this in my spare time and I'll report back when I get the site updated and as I start bring buyers and sellers to it.

 

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[OsmanS]

cant wait to see how this turns out, I like the idea. The site is okay, but definitely could use some improvements. Maybe if the "get my quotes" form was centered it would be better

 

[bernieshawn]

Quick update:

Redesigned the services list and individual service view page: The SEO Marketplace | Reviews | The SEO Marketplace

I still need to redesign the reviews list and individual review page but that's about it when it comes to design. Then, I just need to switch the home page to the services list and remove some of the old content.

I do still need to do a bit of streamlining on the backend for the way service providers create their sales pages, but that's not a huge issue.

I still need to figure out 100% how I'm going to handle payments. If I receive all payments, take a cut (I'm thinking 5% ??), and then send the remainder out, Paypal is going to get a double cut on the payments. Any ideas on how to avoid this?

It's also going to be slightly harder to sign service providers up if (1) I take a % cut and (2) they don't get paid directly.

I also need to figure out what to do about service provider account levels (The SEO Marketplace | Service Providers | The SEO Marketplace). I think what I might do is make all accounts have unlimited services, transactions, and amount processed. They'll all take a % cut, but I might lower the % for the higher accounts (so, the Level 3 account might only take 2.5%). I could also do a $500+/month account with no % cut or something like that.

SIDE NOTE: Can a mod please re-name the title of this thread?

 

[bernieshawn]

Update time. Actually, before I do the update, I want to make another attempt at getting this thread re-named since I've been unsuccessful so far. Can a mod please rename this thread?

Anyway, update.

-Figured out payments and did the coding for it. Side note: I hate coding!!!! Anyway, I was able to get Paypal Masspay enabled for my account, so I can send bulk transactions at 2% fee with a $1 cap per transaction. Just what I needed.

-Did a bunch of other small changes, built in a way for buyers to check order status without having an account, updated the home page, more general small stuff.

Still to do:

1. Figure out 100% how to configure the new accounts levels. I can get rid of the different account levels and just have them all free+5% transaction fee+access to all features unrestricted. Or, I can keep the account levels like they are (except for the limits on # of services/transactions/amount processed). Hmmm....

2. Update the landing page for service providers (once I figure out #1).

3. Send messages to every service provider that I can find to get them to list their services. I think my goal is going to be 30 services listed before launch.

4. Send an email blast out to all the buyer emails that I have to launch!

5. (this should probably be #1....) Figure out how to grow traffic. A one-time email blast to ~850 people isn't going to take care of that. I think the key to this is to get a community going -- make sure people are leaving reviews and leaving their feedback on services. That way, people will come browse the services just to see what other people are saying. I know, because I used to browse other forums for an hour or two a day just reading reviews to decide what I wanted to purchase next.

Any feedback? New homepage is here: http://www.theseomarketplace.com. Anything is appreciated!

 

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[bernieshawn]

Even though no one is actually reading this, I'll post an update just to humor myself...

Contacted about 60 service providers yesterday and got banned from the forum that I was using to message them. Oh well... can't expect them to make anything easy for me since I'm basically their competition now. Got a couple signups but need way more than that. From here, I'll contact service providers on other forums and probably get banned from them also.

Still need to figure out how I'm actually going to generate recurring buyer traffic to the site. I really don't know what I'm going to do but I'm jumping into it anyway.

 

[JaySoriano]

Looks good.. could use a design update. Whats been most effective so far for getting people to sign up?

 

[bernieshawn]

Looks good.. could use a design update. Whats been most effective so far for getting people to sign up?

Only 2 things I've done so far is make sales posts in forums and message people directly on forums. I'd say overall sales posts have been the most effective.

 

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[JaySoriano]

Only 2 things I've done so far is make sales posts in forums and message people directly on forums. I'd say overall sales posts have been the most effective.

Links to the sales posts?

Why is "The SEO Marketplace" appear twice in your title tag? And I don't think "Review" belongs in there as well.

Google Keyword Tool shows that "SEO Marketplace" only gets 140 exact match hits a month...

 

[odihost]

Other than that, though, how exactly do you find a mentor?

That's what I tought as well. bernieshawn try find a good marketer. maybe do profit sharing with him. He can advice what to do. It's not enough to have a good product, you also need a good marketing.

BTW, I also just started doing business in SEO. A few years ago, I sold my own made SEO software for $7. I managed to sell about 10 of it, but I then quit. So now i'm starting again.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Contacted about 60 service providers yesterday and got banned from the forum that I was using to message them.

If you did this here, you'd be banned too.

Can a mod please rename this thread?

To what?

 

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[bernieshawn]

If you did this here, you'd be banned too.

I know it's not the best thing to do, but I don't know how else to contact these guys. I can't make a thread about it because I'm creating competition so I'm sure that would get deleted also. Plus it costs money to create threads in the sales forums and I'm literally working with $0. Most of these guys don't even have a website, so there's no other way to contact them.

To what?

I just want "The SEO Marketplace" out of the title.... it's ranking in Google for that term and I'd rather it wouldn't (why does your forum have to rank so dang well ) How about "Creating a Marketplace For SEO Services"? I don't really care what it's called actually.

Thanks!!

 

[PatrickP]

uuggggggggggggg Seriously take a step back and look at what you are doing.

So you want to contact the service providers. You KNOW it is against the rules of the forum you are using for FREE but hey you couldn't figure out any other way to do it so screw it I am going to do it because ME and MY needs are superior to those of the forum owners, the forum members and the service providers.

Karma is REAL and it will beat you down when you do things like this. Or if you like What comes around goes around. When someone screws you over in the future, and they will, at least you have an idea why and you wont need to say 'WHY ME????'

Now you have soiled your reputation for what you did on another forum. THE forum owner MJ quoted what you did.

Believe me PLEASE the more difficult route often times is the way to go. Service providers WANT business. They DO have customers. SOME HOW those customers reached them.

Don't sell yourself short, FIND OUT HOW.

 

[bernieshawn]

uuggggggggggggg Seriously take a step back and look at what you are doing.

So you want to contact the service providers. You KNOW it is against the rules of the forum you are using for FREE but hey you couldn't figure out any other way to do it so screw it I am going to do it because ME and MY needs are superior to those of the forum owners, the forum members and the service providers.

Karma is REAL and it will beat you down when you do things like this. Or if you like What comes around goes around. When someone screws you over in the future, and they will, at least you have an idea why and you wont need to say 'WHY ME????'

Now you have soiled your reputation for what you did on another forum. THE forum owner MJ quoted what you did.

Believe me PLEASE the more difficult route often times is the way to go. Service providers WANT business. They DO have customers. SOME HOW those customers reached them.

Don't sell yourself short, FIND OUT HOW.

Hmmm.. Thanks for the kick in the a$$.

I guess I just need to be more creative. I don't have any ideas now but I'll brainstorm.

EDIT: This brings up a question for me. What is and isn't acceptable when it comes to contacting people?

Is contacting a business through a contact form on their website ok?

Is contacting a business through an email address found on their website ok?

Is calling a business ok?

Where do you draw the line?

 

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[JaySoriano]

I've contacted people by just googling their name, finding their website w/ contact form or email and via linkedin. I've contacted some high profile people and get a decent response rate.

Hmmm.. Thanks for the kick in the a$$.

I guess I just need to be more creative. I don't have any ideas now but I'll brainstorm.

EDIT: This brings up a question for me. What is and isn't acceptable when it comes to contacting people?

Is contacting a business through a contact form on their website ok?

Is contacting a business through an email address found on their website ok?

Is calling a business ok?

Where do you draw the line?

 

[mayana]

One way to get some providers might be to use the LinkedIn Q&A section. Post a question in the startup category, basically asking how people would suggest going about finding providers for this type of service (don't just say SEO, maybe a little more detail). Post a link to your website in the space available for supporting information, and I bet several people will sign up.

I really like the general feel of the website. I would probably put a FAQ in the footer of the home page - maybe even a direct link to the pricing (why hide it?). I'm also wondering if you can have the grey color match a little more closely when you click "list your services". When I went to that tab, I almost felt like I was on a different website, which is sometimes a red flag when browsing the internet.

 

[PatrickP]

Hmmm.. Thanks for the kick in the a$$.

I guess I just need to be more creative. I don't have any ideas now but I'll brainstorm.

EDIT: This brings up a question for me. What is and isn't acceptable when it comes to contacting people?

Is contacting a business through a contact form on their website ok?

Is contacting a business through an email address found on their website ok?

Is calling a business ok?

Where do you draw the line?

WOW what a GREAT positive attitude. SPEED + my man!

Contact them through their contact page NO that is too much lol Just kidding yes of course.

I think ALL of the ways you listed are fine. What was bad was not so much a bad way to talk to the company, from the companies point of view but from the Forum owner's point of view.

Rock on my man!

 

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