The most cringe part of the entrepreneur community

[Subsonic]

Selling a course for 4997€ doesnt make someone a scammer!

This won't make me more popular but F*ck it. I am so tired of this dumb idea that its somehow morally wrong to offer high ticket infoproducts. I am also so tiered of people calling every slightly poor deal with those products a "scam".

No, just because it did not help you doesn't make it a scam. All the people often called scammers here (Hamza, Iman...) offer 7 to 30 day money back guarantees. How can it be a scam if you can just get your money back with one email ?

If you don't want to buy it and think it's stupid, fine. The product is not for you.
Let me tell you a secret: I don't buy expensive infoproducts either.

These high ticket items are better for being expensive. Let's say you buy the course for 4997€ you don't have. This will most likely make you get off your a$$ and do something. Even if the content is meh or just basic useless info, the investment has been made.
Now image the content is actually worth the prize and helps you get right to the first point of success of whatever it teaches you.

I had a experience like this when I was learning guitar. I was a bad player yet still I spent almost all my savings on a really good guitar. Guess what? I started playing for hours every day because of the investment I made and because the instrument was awesome.

Back to the point. I get it that it's easy to make fun of someone selling a "alpha male sex course" for 997€ but why is it wrong to do so? Like why does that make a otherwise great content creator a bad person?
There is no misleding marketing and there is a money back guarantee. It's just "Hey I have this thing, check it out if you want to".

Lastly, I am not here to defend Dan lok, Andrew Tate or Tai Lopez. Those people are the reason why the whole paid online education space has a bad reputation.
I'd compare it to crypto. Just because you got rugpulled once doesn't mean that all of crypto is a scam.

 

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[constant-in]

Hey there!
I appreciate the perspective you're sharing in your post. I do agree that high ticket prices don't necessarily mean a product is a scam. However, I think it's important to consider that if a significant number of high ticket offers turn out to be scams, it's natural for people to be extra cautious. Trust in the market can take a big hit when there's a pattern of negative experiences and someone like Dan Lok, Andrew Tate and others don't help either.

I understand that a scam is defined as a dishonest scheme or fraud and therefore, your examples might not necessarily qualify as such and some high-priced products might not fall under this definition. But it's worth noting that if a product provides little or no value for the money paid, it can still be perceived as a scam. And i guess in some countries you can still get into trouble for that.

It's true that making a substantial investment can serve as motivation to take action, as in your guitar example. However, it's crucial to recognize the importance of delivering value for the price paid, you got a really good guitar. That value is important especially in the online education space that i see as being plagued by low value offerings.

While it's not fair to label every high-priced infoproduct as a scam, it's essential to be understanding of the skepticism people might have.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I do like a rant from time to time

 

[Subsonic]

Hey there!
I appreciate the perspective you're sharing in your post. I do agree that high ticket prices don't necessarily mean a product is a scam. However, I think it's important to consider that if a significant number of high ticket offers turn out to be scams, it's natural for people to be extra cautious. Trust in the market can take a big hit when there's a pattern of negative experiences and someone like Dan Lok, Andrew Tate and others don't help either.

I understand that a scam is defined as a dishonest scheme or fraud and therefore, your examples might not necessarily qualify as such and some high-priced products might not fall under this definition. But it's worth noting that if a product provides little or no value for the money paid, it can still be perceived as a scam. And i guess in some countries you can still get into trouble for that.

It's true that making a substantial investment can serve as motivation to take action, as in your guitar example. However, it's crucial to recognize the importance of delivering value for the price paid, you got a really good guitar. That value is important especially in the online education space that i see as being plagued by low value offerings.

While it's not fair to label every high-priced infoproduct as a scam, it's essential to be understanding of the skepticism people might have.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I do like a rant from time to time

Thanks for this reply. I agree with you that many things online are low value.
May is also add that your text is written magnificently. It's always great to see someone formulating full sentences and use more advanced vocabulary.

 

[kommen]

So true.

Thinking that everything is a psyop/scam is... a psyop itself. (You ever noticed how the elites let The Matrix movie play in the cinemas just like that?)



Credits: MadeByJimbob

I'm so mad about this problem because I fell victim to this myself. Skepticism often becomes a sacred cow itself. And it often becomes an excuse for people to not do anything.

The elites WANT you to stay skeptical of EVERYTHING. Because when you are CONSTANTLY skeptical, you are always in a state of paralysis analysis and hence, you become slower! Or even hell, you don't do anything! And that means less competition for the elites! Don't be a dumbass!

I sincerely want to thank you for taking the time to bring up this stupid problem plaguing the forum.

 

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[Tomco]

I 100% agree with your statement here. It's like the person who played with fire and got burnt one time, so decides that all fire is bad.

I also like the point you made on the investment part, where when you actually invest money into something, even if it turns out to be a flop, you'll end up being more motivated to do that thing. In the end you'll end up learning a thing or two.

Another thing I would like to note is that, like these guys you mentioned (Iman, Hamza, Tate, etc.) [I assume] started out from nothing, making do with what they have at their disposal. Maybe public libraries, or some youtube videos online or resources from the internet (this forum is a good example)

What I mean to say is, yes these online courses might help you and teach you new things, but all the information is really available in a lot of places. It's just your determination and resourcefulness which will make you successful in the long run.

Anyways, thank you for the post @Subsonic !

 

[RicardoGrande]

I don't like the people that constantly upsell or push for courses but some courses have utility. For instance I knew zilch about sales and found a crabby Englishman who has massive success cold-calling in the anglosphere. I did have to sacrifice a chunk of change to learn why he's so successful but using his insights I'm able to betray expectations, filter, and then build pain in the prospects and have them invite me in for sales calls now which saved me at least 3-4,000 hours of prospecting to get to that point organically.

 

[Devilery]

Selling a course for 4997€ doesnt make someone a scammer!

This won't make me more popular but F*ck it. I am so tired of this dumb idea that its somehow morally wrong to offer high ticket infoproducts. I am also so tiered of people calling every slightly poor deal with those products a "scam".

No, just because it did not help you doesn't make it a scam. All the people often called scammers here (Hamza, Iman...) offer 7 to 30 day money back guarantees. How can it be a scam if you can just get your money back with one email ?

If you don't want to buy it and think it's stupid, fine. The product is not for you.
Let me tell you a secret: I don't buy expensive infoproducts either.

These high ticket items are better for being expensive. Let's say you buy the course for 4997€ you don't have. This will most likely make you get off your a$$ and do something. Even if the content is meh or just basic useless info, the investment has been made.
Now image the content is actually worth the prize and helps you get right to the first point of success of whatever it teaches you.

I had a experience like this when I was learning guitar. I was a bad player yet still I spent almost all my savings on a really good guitar. Guess what? I started playing for hours every day because of the investment I made and because the instrument was awesome.

Back to the point. I get it that it's easy to make fun of someone selling a "alpha male sex course" for 997€ but why is it wrong to do so? Like why does that make a otherwise great content creator a bad person?
There is no misleding marketing and there is a money back guarantee. It's just "Hey I have this thing, check it out if you want to".

Lastly, I am not here to defend Dan lok, Andrew Tate or Tai Lopez. Those people are the reason why the whole paid online education space has a bad reputation.
I'd compare it to crypto. Just because you got rugpulled once doesn't mean that all of crypto is a scam.

Just curious, how come you're defending high-ticket info-product creators, even if their products suck, but somehow Dan Lok, Andrew Tate, and Tai Lopez are actually scams? What's different? They also have thousands of raving testimonials.

Oh, and you haven't bought any high-ticket info-products...

Value is subjective, it's quite obvious that every product will have both success stories and hate stories.

I agree that most people who scream "scam" are either stupid or lazy, and probably haven't bought the product, but having worked in marketing for years, it's also evident that most courses are misleading in their marketing. They will pick out a 1-in-a-million success story to promote something that requires much more than explained on the sales page to work.

I've worked as a freelancer for 4-ish years. First 2 years, I barely fed myself, 3rd year was okay-ish, but now I'm doing good. I could create a course on how to become a freelancer, showcasing only the biggest paychecks, and revealing only the best parts (freedom, travel, etc.), and create a course. Someone who has grit will make it work, but at the end of the day, it's all BS* that's built around handpicked events rather than the entire process.

 

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[Tacko6]

I think the issue around high priced courses is what is promised / sold Vs reality…. For example:

‘’Want to earn £50’000 in property income and have a £1 Mil property portfolio in 12 months?’’…

‘Do you want to leave your crappy job and fire that shitty boss in less than 12 months and be financially free?’’

Just sign up here for our £18,997 Mastermind course and we will teach you how…

Along with all the other sales tactics that go with it…

What the course doesn’t teach you is how complex buying real estate is. The up and down sides of ultimately running a business. It doesn’t account for where you are when you start. I.e. how much capital you have available… how much time you have available, how skilled you are in property… or other transferable skills which are relevant…

Just follow this proven (very basic) secret path (there’s is no secret btw) and you will be financially e and on a bench sipping cocktails before you know it…

Oh…you’re 11 months in to the course and you’ve not hit the goals we promised when you signed up….? You’re not taking enough action… you’re not following the secret formula… if you’d taken massive action you would have succeeded by now…

If you’re thinking that was me, you’re right. I spent my money on that course a few years back…

Do I regret it…. ? No… ish… I was pissed that I fell for the sales tactics… however, I’ve gone on to buy property (which I would have done anyway) and meet some good people in the property world and form business / personal relationships with. It’s also made me super critical when paying for courses now… in a good way. What’s on offer, what’s the value, do I need it, can I learn it else where, what else is on the market… etc

Do I think this mastermind was value for money… absolutely not. It was daylight robbery for what I got in return. It was a ‘guru’ selling me a dream, the guy stood at the edge of the gold mine selling shovels to folk like me who thought i needed to be taught the ‘secret’…. And then become financially free…

I live and learn…..

And I learnt things the hard way by paying for that course!

Now I’m not saying that all high ticket priced courses are rubbish and not value for money… Im
Just saying there are a shit ton of ‘gurus’ out there that are rich by selling peole a dream, a short cut, a secret which I would argue in most cases is a load of bullshit….

Of course, just my 2p worth and experience…

 

[Subsonic]

I think the issue around high priced courses is what is promised / sold Vs reality…. For example:

‘’Want to earn £50’000 in property income and have a £1 Mil property portfolio in 12 months?’’…

‘Do you want to leave your crappy job and fire that shitty boss in less than 12 months and be financially free?’’

Just sign up here for our £18,997 Mastermind course and we will teach you how…

Along with all the other sales tactics that go with it…

What the course doesn’t teach you is how complex buying real estate is. The up and down sides of ultimately running a business. It doesn’t account for where you are when you start. I.e. how much capital you have available… how much time you have available, how skilled you are in property… or other transferable skills which are relevant…

Just follow this proven (very basic) secret path (there’s is no secret btw) and you will be financially e and on a bench sipping cocktails before you know it…

Oh…you’re 11 months in to the course and you’ve not hit the goals we promised when you signed up….? You’re not taking enough action… you’re not following the secret formula… if you’d taken massive action you would have succeeded by now…

If you’re thinking that was me, you’re right. I spent my money on that course a few years back…

Do I regret it…. ? No… ish… I was pissed that I fell for the sales tactics… however, I’ve gone on to buy property (which I would have done anyway) and meet some good people in the property world and form business / personal relationships with. It’s also made me super critical when paying for courses now… in a good way. What’s on offer, what’s the value, do I need it, can I learn it else where, what else is on the market… etc

Do I think this mastermind was value for money… absolutely not. It was daylight robbery for what I got in return. It was a ‘guru’ selling me a dream, the guy stood at the edge of the gold mine selling shovels to folk like me who thought i needed to be taught the ‘secret’…. And then become financially free…

I live and learn…..

And I learnt things the hard way by paying for that course!

Now I’m not saying that all high ticket priced courses are rubbish and not value for money… Im
Just saying there are a shit ton of ‘gurus’ out there that are rich by selling peole a dream, a short cut, a secret which I would argue in most cases is a load of bullshit….

Of course, just my 2p worth and experience…

Hey thanks for taking the time to write this reply.

I think my idea comes off as kind of wrong. I don't want to say that scams are a good thing.

I want to say that charging a high ticket price does not make someone a scammer.
Of course I dislike deceptive marketing and all that bs. However I respect the few guys that have a course/program that they truly believe in.

There was a 1k a month coaching offer as the forum sponsor I think at some point and it was no scam.
Then there is my take that someone can't be a scammer if the offer a actual and easily exercisable money back guarantee.


This quote sums up my point pretty well:

Scammers often charge high prices but charging high prices does not make someone a scammer.

 

[Panos Daras]

Selling a course for 4997€ doesnt make someone a scammer!

This won't make me more popular but F*ck it. I am so tired of this dumb idea that its somehow morally wrong to offer high ticket infoproducts. I am also so tiered of people calling every slightly poor deal with those products a "scam".

No, just because it did not help you doesn't make it a scam. All the people often called scammers here (Hamza, Iman...) offer 7 to 30 day money back guarantees. How can it be a scam if you can just get your money back with one email ?

If you don't want to buy it and think it's stupid, fine. The product is not for you.
Let me tell you a secret: I don't buy expensive infoproducts either.

These high ticket items are better for being expensive. Let's say you buy the course for 4997€ you don't have. This will most likely make you get off your a$$ and do something. Even if the content is meh or just basic useless info, the investment has been made.
Now image the content is actually worth the prize and helps you get right to the first point of success of whatever it teaches you.

I had a experience like this when I was learning guitar. I was a bad player yet still I spent almost all my savings on a really good guitar. Guess what? I started playing for hours every day because of the investment I made and because the instrument was awesome.

Back to the point. I get it that it's easy to make fun of someone selling a "alpha male sex course" for 997€ but why is it wrong to do so? Like why does that make a otherwise great content creator a bad person?
There is no misleding marketing and there is a money back guarantee. It's just "Hey I have this thing, check it out if you want to".

Lastly, I am not here to defend Dan lok, Andrew Tate or Tai Lopez. Those people are the reason why the whole paid online education space has a bad reputation.
I'd compare it to crypto. Just because you got rugpulled once doesn't mean that all of crypto is a scam.

I love your journey on this forum and you seem like a very hard-working young man. That being said please apply the Costanza Principle here. Yes, all Crypto is a scam. Gold is also a scam. The fact that everyone buys them does not make them good investments. What exactly are we buying? Does the perceived value come close to the real value? Now in regard to the course point. Let's say you had 4997UEUR to spare on an advertising course. Why not instead hire someone to run some ads together and learn on the job? Blow this money on action instead of a course that will give you a "shortcut".

 

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[Kevin88660]

Selling a course for 4997€ doesnt make someone a scammer!

This won't make me more popular but F*ck it. I am so tired of this dumb idea that its somehow morally wrong to offer high ticket infoproducts. I am also so tiered of people calling every slightly poor deal with those products a "scam".

No, just because it did not help you doesn't make it a scam. All the people often called scammers here (Hamza, Iman...) offer 7 to 30 day money back guarantees. How can it be a scam if you can just get your money back with one email ?

If you don't want to buy it and think it's stupid, fine. The product is not for you.
Let me tell you a secret: I don't buy expensive infoproducts either.

These high ticket items are better for being expensive. Let's say you buy the course for 4997€ you don't have. This will most likely make you get off your a$$ and do something. Even if the content is meh or just basic useless info, the investment has been made.
Now image the content is actually worth the prize and helps you get right to the first point of success of whatever it teaches you.

I had a experience like this when I was learning guitar. I was a bad player yet still I spent almost all my savings on a really good guitar. Guess what? I started playing for hours every day because of the investment I made and because the instrument was awesome.

Back to the point. I get it that it's easy to make fun of someone selling a "alpha male sex course" for 997€ but why is it wrong to do so? Like why does that make a otherwise great content creator a bad person?
There is no misleding marketing and there is a money back guarantee. It's just "Hey I have this thing, check it out if you want to".

Lastly, I am not here to defend Dan lok, Andrew Tate or Tai Lopez. Those people are the reason why the whole paid online education space has a bad reputation.
I'd compare it to crypto. Just because you got rugpulled once doesn't mean that all of crypto is a scam.

It is not a scam.

But it is a form of selling based on idol worship.

People pay the premium for the guru not for the course.

It is like going for live concert for a few hundred dollar where you can listen your favourite music for a fee dollar via online subscription.