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The Business Of Selling Courses

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SoftStone

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Hey you all,

I created this thead because I am a bit stuck in the thought process and I think many people are in the same boat as me (Sorry If there is a similar thread already, but I haven‘t found it.)

Two cents about me: I‘ve identified a niche in the programming industry that is not too saturated with courses and books (I wasn‘t able to find many myself when learning about it).

I started creating free content on the subject and have picked up some (minor) traction.

My plan was to start selling online courses in my niche as soon as I grow my audience to a larger amount (no idea when exactly, but I‘ll figure that one out.).

Of course, there is a lot of work to be put in initially without any gain, but I‘d be very willing to do it.

Now my questions remain:

- is the delayed gratification with this strategy worth it in the longrun (assuming that it does take off)?

- has anyone had similar experiences with pursuing this strategy?

Sorry for using so many "I"s...

Anyways, would appreciate some thoughts if you have any.

Thanks.
 

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NFT

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Foolproof way: Save a lot of time, money and frustration by doing a simple Google Forms survey on your future audience before creating your course.

Creating the survey is free and you can promote it with Facebook Ads for very little money.

By doing this you will find out EXACTLY what your potential customers need and want.

Then you can create a course based on the surveys results and BOOM there you go. You just solved their exact problem.
Additionally you can use some of your audiences exact phrases in your copy to be more persuasive...
 
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SoftStone

SoftStone

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Foolproof way: Save a lot of time, money and frustration by doing a simple Google Forms survey on your future audience before creating your course.

Creating the survey is free and you can promote it with Facebook Ads for very little money.

By doing this you will find out EXACTLY what your potential customers need and want.

Then you can create a course based on the surveys results and BOOM there you go. You just solved their exact problem.
Additionally you can use some of your audiences exact phrases in your copy to be more persuasive...
Yep, exactly. But before that, of course has to be the long grind of building up the audience you can ask (right?), which, like I said, I‘d be happy to do.

I really have no experience with facebook ads, never used them before. Do you mean just driving people to the survey? In which would they want to participate and buy the service if they‘re not one of my followers?

(I know you‘re talking about idea validation, but next would come the part of finding the customers).
 

NFT

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You don't need to build up your personal audience first instead you can use FB Ads as mentioned and simply target people in your niche.
FB Ads are really not that difficult to get started with. Just watch some free youtube videos and figure it out.

People LOVE doing quizzes and arguing about nonsense. Maybe give them a small free goodie for participating in the survey. Like a free checklist, free video, free something... Incentives always work.

You will learn the exact problems of your target audience which results in a massive Win-Win-Situation for both you and your customers:
You can solve their problems and ideally get paid for doing that. Your audience gets the specific help and value that they need and seek.
 
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SoftStone

SoftStone

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You don't need to build up your personal audience first instead you can use FB Ads as mentioned and simply target people in your niche.
FB Ads are really not that difficult to get started with. Just watch some free youtube videos and figure it out.

People LOVE doing quizzes and arguing about nonsense. Maybe give them a small free goodie for participating in the survey. Like a free checklist, free video, free something... Incentives always work.

You will learn the exact problems of your target audience which results in a massive Win-Win-Situation for both you and your customers:
You can solve their problems and ideally get paid for doing that. Your audience gets the specific help and value that they need and seek.
thanks, I‘ll take a look at some tutorials.

have you had experience with this strategy?
 

lowtek

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Yep, exactly. But before that, of course has to be the long grind of building up the audience you can ask (right?), which, like I said, I‘d be happy to do.

I really have no experience with facebook ads, never used them before. Do you mean just driving people to the survey? In which would they want to participate and buy the service if they‘re not one of my followers?

(I know you‘re talking about idea validation, but next would come the part of finding the customers).
I wouldn't spend money to drive people to a google survey. It's going to be a waste of money. I'm not going to click on an ad like that, and sure as hell won't fill out your survey if I did.

Go find your audience and engage with them. Stop talking to us about theory and talk to your audience about what problems they're having.
 

lowtek

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When I first started on this journey, I was doing simple Javascript games in a framework called Phazer. I went to the community and answered the beginner questions that I was qualified to answer. Within a few weeks, people knew me and liked me, and I was able to shamelessly plug my own blog posts.

Within a few more weeks, the framework creator took note of me and put one of my blog posts, an explanation on a little known feature of his framework, on blast. I was still getting around 1000 hits a month to that blog when I shut it down a little over a year later. With no further interaction or marketing on the forum.

I never monetized this, for two reasons: I realized I'm not a game maker and the creator of the framework released a 400 page book for $20. I didn't see how I could add value beyond that.

Moral of the story is that you need to find your audience and go help them.

Right.
Now.
 
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SoftStone

SoftStone

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I wouldn't spend money to drive people to a google survey. It's going to be a waste of money. I'm not going to click on an ad like that, and sure as hell won't fill out your survey if I did.

Go find your audience and engage with them. Stop talking to us about theory and talk to your audience about what problems they're having.

thanks for the kick in the butt. Appreciate it.
 

AfterWind

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I'm currently applying the same strategy and same industry. I guess it's not that unique after all.

Unfortunately, I'm in the same position as you (not much traction but putting in the effort). I am very certain that this is the right track for an online teacher since people are MUCH more likely to buy from you if they know you and have received good content from you.

If the delay is worth it or not, that depends on your motivation. I'm just tired and disgusted of the current education system and willing to change it even if it will take 1, 2, 5 or even 10 years to get done.

And, as lowtek mentioned. Help help help people and you'll find out what the next steps are.
 
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SoftStone

SoftStone

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I guess it's not that unique after all.
few things are 'unique'. This strategy is called inbound marketing, and is performed in basically all industries you can think of, not just programming :)

Can definitely agree with you on the current stance of the traditional education system, but that has been said enough times I guess...
 

Dunkafelics

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If the delay is worth it or not, that depends on your motivation. I'm just tired and disgusted of the current education system and willing to change it even if it will take 1, 2, 5 or even 10 years to get done.
I admire you about this, but damn that sounds like an uphill battle.

I do think there is something to these alternative schools that I have heard about where they focus on business building. This is not exactly the one I read about, but it does sort of show the direction that some are looking to go:

The Corporatization of Kindergarten - Citylab
 

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Kung Fu Steve

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Why does it sound to me like you're only half-way committed to this?

Everything we want is on the other side of commitment, man.

If this is going to be your business, treat it like a business... not a side project.
 
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SoftStone

SoftStone

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Why does it sound to me like you're only half-way committed to this?

Everything we want is on the other side of commitment, man.

If this is going to be your business, treat it like a business... not a side project.
at the moment it can only be a side project, unfortunately.

School is draining most of my time. I plan to be able to get a side business running as soon as I‘m out of school (about 1.5 years to go) and then take it on full time and grow it.
 

AfterWind

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I admire you about this, but damn that sounds like an uphill battle.

I do think there is something to these alternative schools that I have heard about where they focus on business building. This is not exactly the one I read about, but it does sort of show the direction that some are looking to go:

The Corporatization of Kindergarten - Citylab
Thank you!

There are so many problems with education that almost any outside change will be an improvement. That kindergarten could be life changing for some of the kids, the earlier the kid learns about entrepreneurship the better.

I can go on for weeks about the issues with education bottomline is that it's outdated and online courses are one way to improve it. Of course, to actually change anything you'd have to go much further than just that but it's a way to help many around the globe while getting started.
 
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SoftStone

SoftStone

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Thank you!

There are so many problems with education that almost any outside change will be an improvement. That kindergarten could be life changing for some of the kids, the earlier the kid learns about entrepreneurship the better.

I can go on for weeks about the issues with education bottomline is that it's outdated and online courses are one way to improve it. Of course, to actually change anything you'd have to go much further than just that but it's a way to help many around the globe while getting started.
Exactly! Now, we should both start working on our vision.

Good Luck man! (Or better: Good hard work).

Make sure to keep us up to date about your progress.
 

Andy Black

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What @lowtek said.

Here’s something I wrote about this:

I have a course, and only advertise it to TFLF. It developed because I helped people with my subject area, and eventually people kept asking me if I had a course. (It’s called a “shut up and take my money moment”.)

The course is morphing into a forum - because the most active people who took the course told me what they wanted after the course.

It all started with me helping people first.

This thread summarises the mindset:

And this thread should help too:
 

AfterWind

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Exactly! Now, we should both start working on our vision.

Good Luck man! (Or better: Good hard work).

Make sure to keep us up to date about your progress.
Definetely. Thank you! You too, keep on fighting! It's 100% worth it in the long run.

Haven't updated my progress thread in a while now. Once some value can be added through it I certainly will.
 
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SoftStone

SoftStone

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@Andy Black wow, thank you.

I think the biggest mistake I‘ve been making until now is focusing too much on my content itself rather than interacting with the customer and producing the content that they want to see.
 

Fastlane Liam

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I wouldn't spend money to drive people to a google survey. It's going to be a waste of money. I'm not going to click on an ad like that, and sure as hell won't fill out your survey if I did.

Go find your audience and engage with them. Stop talking to us about theory and talk to your audience about what problems they're having.
Absolutley,
Been there, tried that. (well with reddit ads)
After 10k impressions and 6 clicks(all of which didn't complete the 4 question survey), people don't want to do surveys. Simple as that. Even if they did how do you know its reliable.
 

Andy Black

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@Andy Black wow, thank you.

I think the biggest mistake I‘ve been making until now is focusing too much on my content itself rather than interacting with the customer and producing the content that they want to see.
Yep. A course is a product/service like any other. You could sit in your lab or shed building stuff - but it doesn’t help people there, and you’ve no way of knowing if it’s what your market wants or will pay for. Engage the market first?
 
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SoftStone

SoftStone

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Yep. A course is a product/service like any other. You could sit in your lab or shed building stuff - but it doesn’t help people there, and you’ve no way of knowing if it’s what your market wants or will pay for. Engage the market first?
While helping people on forums, I came across two questions.

1) Do you think one should stick to one niche of forums when helping people, or also help people in other niches where you think you could be useful?

2) Is there such a thing as giving away "too much value"?

Thank you!
 

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Andy Black

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1) Do you think one should stick to one niche of forums when helping people, or also help people in other niches where you think you could be useful?
Looking back, what worked for me was helping people in different forums until I found one with more of a community feel.

There’s some AdWords or Online Marketing forums out there where people just join to get quick answers and then leave.

I personally didn’t like those so much as I didn’t feel part of the community, but more like some resident doctor waiting for patients to come in.

It’s got to be busy so you get feedback, and it’s *maybe* somewhere that can be your home online.

Facebook groups didn’t work for me as well as forums, because they’re so distracting and because I couldn’t find my threads to link to them again.


2) Is there such a thing as giving away "too much value"
Not at the start when you’re trying to find out what helps people.

I wrote threads (38 in TFLF just related to AdWords).

I hopped on calls and chatted for two hours straight with folks.

I audited accounts on these calls and showed people how I created tools to generate and upload hundreds of ads. I gave people those tools.



What I got in return was priceless. I learned what people kept getting stuck on, and the main reasons why.

I learned how to explain things quicker, and clearer.

Very few people hired me, but many of them referred me to others.

Eventually I started recording some of those calls to help more people.

Eventually I had sooo much content that the people who wanted to spend less time learning it asked for a course.

I was able to offer something that would cost money but would take less time.




Giving that away for free wouldn’t make sense - not if I wanted to help even more people find it, consume it, and act on it.

With a paid course I can eventually use paid ads to get new people to it. This can help more people.

My free content can help people, but it’s also doing a segment of the DIY folks a disservice.

At some point people want to pay you, and at some point people won’t act unless they put their hand in their pocket first.

Some people will never buy. That’s ok. Help them with your free content, but give others the chance to give you money.

“Sales is a screening process.” (I have a thread of that title somewhere.)

Hope that helps.


EDIT: All that content helps too. Someone can ask a question and I can link them to the appropriate thread. That’s super helpful for me and for them.

If someone wants to learn more then they can follow the breadcrumbs.

It’s an “open” business system. I don’t force people to signup and give me their email address to get great free content. It’s just there.

If they want to take it further then they know where to find me.
 
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Andy Black

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SoftStone

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Looking back, what worked for me was helping people in different forums until I found one with more of a community feel.

There’s some AdWords or Online Marketing forums out there where people just join to get quick answers and then leave.

I personally didn’t like those so much as I didn’t feel part of the community, but more like some resident doctor waiting for patients to come in.

It’s got to be busy so you get feedback, and it’s *maybe* somewhere that can be your home online.

Facebook groups didn’t work for me as well as forums, because they’re so distracting and because I couldn’t find my threads to link to them again.




Not at the start when you’re trying to find out what helps people.

I wrote threads (38 in TFLF just related to AdWords).

I hopped on calls and chatted for two hours straight with folks.

I audited accounts on these calls and showed people how I created tools to generate and upload hundreds of ads. I gave people those tools.



What I got in return was priceless. I learned what people kept getting stuck on, and the main reasons why.

I learned how to explain things quicker, and clearer.

Very few people hired me, but many of them referred me to others.

Eventually I started recording some of those calls to help more people.

Eventually I had sooo much content that the people who wanted to spend less time learning it asked for a course.

I was able to offer something that would cost money but would take less time.




Giving that away for free wouldn’t make sense - not if I wanted to help even more people find it, consume it, and act on it.

With a paid course I can eventually use paid ads to get new people to it. This can help more people.

My free content can help people, but it’s also doing a segment of the DIY folks a disservice.

At some point people want to pay you, and at some point people won’t act unless they put their hand in their pocket first.

Some people will never buy. That’s ok. Help them with your free content, but give others the chance to give you money.

“Sales is a screening process.” (I have a thread of that title somewhere.)

Hope that helps.


EDIT: All that content helps too. Someone can ask a question and I can link them to the appropriate thread. That’s super helpful for me and for them.

If someone wants to learn more then they can follow the breadcrumbs.

It’s an “open” business system. I don’t force people to signup and give me their email address to get great free content. It’s just there.

If they want to take it further then they know where to find me.
only from answering a couple of questions, I already notice the same types of questions and complaints coming up.

It makes sense what you're saying. I think I'll release the solutions to them for free, as opposed to keeping them "in the backpack of courses to sell later on".

It is counter-intuitive how from getting free value from people, we suddenly want to give them some of our money (now that you say that, I remember doing it several times :))

Anyways, thanks for the value you provide. I hope to be able to give something back to the forum as soon as I can.
 
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SoftStone

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awesome chat! Thank you for linking to it.

Somewhere you talked about this idea of selling people shovels to dig out the gold, instead of digging it out yourself.

So, if I listened correctly, you're basically working with clients and then teaching what you're learning to other people.

Up until now, I was really only focused on "deliberate practise" and teaching what I was learning, without actually doing any sort of client work or building a SaaS application for myself.

Would you recommend the approach of basically doing both at the same time (maybe in my case, cold calling clients or building a SaaS application)?
 
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Andy Black

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awesome chat! Thank you for linking to it.

Somewhere you talked about this idea of selling people shovels to dig out the gold, instead of digging it out yourself.

So, if I listened correctly, you're basically working with clients and then teaching what you're learning to other people.

Up until now, I was really only focused on "deliberate practise" and teaching what I was learning, without actually doing any sort of client work or building a SaaS application for myself.

Would you recommend the approach of basically doing both at the same time (maybe in my case, cold calling clients or building a SaaS application)?
There’s at least 3 customer segments out there:

1) The DIY folks who won’t pay for a course. They’d rather spend their time finding out how to do it themselves.

2) The DIY folks who’ll pay for a course to speed up their progress.

3) The DFY folks who just want it done and would rather pay someone else to do it.

I think these people are at different stages in their journey. I don’t try to move people up this ladder. I just give them the options and let them choose which door to go through.


Some people are in the business of teaching and coaching. That’s fine.

For what I do, I think there’s way more gold to be dug out using my shovel than selling shovels.



The list of my free threads is linked to in my signature, as is the course.
 
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SoftStone

SoftStone

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There’s at least 3 customer segments out there:

1) The DIY folks who won’t pay for a course. They’d rather spend their time finding out how to do it themselves.

2) The DIY folks who’ll pay for a course to speed up their progress.

3) The DFY folks who just want it done and would rather pay someone else to do it.

I think these people are at different stages in their journey. I don’t try to move people up this ladder. I just give them the options and let them choose which door to go through.


Some people are in the business of teaching and coaching. That’s fine.

For what I do, I think there’s way more gold to be dug out using my shovel than selling shovels.



The list of my free threads is linked to in my signature, as is the course.
actually, I was able to find your course just by googling. Silly me...
 
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SoftStone

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Hey,

just wanted to give a quick update of how things are going at the moment.

I've been at this for about 4 months and have gained a small traction of a bit more than 500 subscribers.

I started an email list with a lousy 40 people in it (it's a start) and started communicating with them, asking for problems and trying to help with my videos where I can.

Here are some discoveries I have made that might help you:

1) people come for all different reasons. Some need to get a project done while some want to prepare for college.

3) As @Andy Black recommended, start interacting with your audience. I looked for questions people had in forums all over again. Also, start interacting with yourself. When I looked for topics I had struggled with a bit, I guessed that others might have the same problem, so I made some content, published it and posted it on social media, and it turned out to be right.

3) You don't need to come up with new content ideas all by yourself all the time. Just ask your audience what they want. Personally, my todo list has been filling up since approaching them 1-on-1, and I know that there is somebody who will benefit from it, even if it's just one person.

Anyway, I am thinking about when I should start working on an actual paid product they can buy. Don't know which metric to look for of when the "right time" has come, although something like that most certainly doesn't exist.

Have a nice day!
 

Andy Black

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Hey,

just wanted to give a quick update of how things are going at the moment.

I've been at this for about 4 months and have gained a small traction of a bit more than 500 subscribers.

I started an email list with a lousy 40 people in it (it's a start) and started communicating with them, asking for problems and trying to help with my videos where I can.

Here are some discoveries I have made that might help you:

1) people come for all different reasons. Some need to get a project done while some want to prepare for college.

3) As @Andy Black recommended, start interacting with your audience. I looked for questions people had in forums all over again. Also, start interacting with yourself. When I looked for topics I had struggled with a bit, I guessed that others might have the same problem, so I made some content, published it and posted it on social media, and it turned out to be right.

3) You don't need to come up with new content ideas all by yourself all the time. Just ask your audience what they want. Personally, my todo list has been filling up since approaching them 1-on-1, and I know that there is somebody who will benefit from it, even if it's just one person.

Anyway, I am thinking about when I should start working on an actual paid product they can buy. Don't know which metric to look for of when the "right time" has come, although something like that most certainly doesn't exist.

Have a nice day!
The metric that made me create a course was people asking me if I had one. Oh, and someone saying it took them 18 hours to go trough all my free material.

I created a course when I believed I was doing people a disservice by not having one out there.


Good for you engaging people 1-2-1.
 

arobinson04

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Something I've done in the past, that's given me some good insight into my customers is sending a "Strange Question" email.

I can't recall where I came across the idea, but basically, as part of your auto-responder sequence, you include an email that uses the subject line of "Strange Question?"

Then, in the body of the email, you simply ask them why they signed up for your email list. What kind of obstacles are they facing that they're trying to overcome, that they hope your blog/product etc. will help them with.

Hope that helps!
 

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