So I dropped out... Here's why

[BlakeRVA]

And I agree that college is not for everyone. There is nothing wrong with learning a trade. We need more plumbers.

If someone wants to start a plumbing business that's fine. You can still make good money in blue collar work as @IceCreamKid has shown in his latest thread. Secondly, degrees are nice if you are trying to work for someone else. However, I don't think that is the path the majority of people on this forum are trying to travel down. Unless the degree is the most effective and efficient way to prepare yourself for the business you are attempting to create, I don't see a reason you need to go get a degree. Plenty of people skipped college and did fine for themselves, many of which are on this forum. Paging @MJ DeMarco @SteveO @Vigilante among others. Sure, you might not become the next billionaire drop out, but that doesn't mean you can't make more money that 99% of the people with college degrees.

I recently read an article that was trying to redefine how people viewed homelessness. One of the men that was interviewed was a homeless man in his 50's living in San Francisco who said he had a Masters of Finance from Stanford. While formal education certainly does attract the type of people who have the propensity to succeed it is not a bullet-proof method to success. I'm currently a Senior in college, so I don't condemn formal education, but I also understand that it is simply one of the many ways to obtain valuable skills. Keep an open mind Toni and you'll go a lot further in life.

 

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[LifeTransformer]

I've always wondered how you can learn to be an entrepreneur by going to university?

Do you leave with a business? If not, how is it teaching you about entrepreneurship?

 

[Ankerstein17]

So this is actually the first semester i've been in school. I was majoring in entrepreneurship so i could obviously start my own company. So i thought to myself, how beneficial is this as of right now. None. I haven't learned anything that i couldn't learn online or didn't already know. Hell i've learned more about business in a week online then i have this whole semester. So yesterday i said screw it and just dropped all my classes. I have a plan A right now and don't want a plan B because i feel like it will distract me from my real goals. Hopefully they turn out pretty well! I do have a job currently as it is also so im not a bum.

Great stuff. I am currently in my third year of business and I have been thinking about dropping out. School for me when I first started out was a temporary endeavour to help gain knowledge and experience before I start my own venture. I am getting to that point now I have surrounded myself with a lot of great people and some people I can see myself doing business with. I feel like a lot of the stuff in this past third year is very redundant and I have already learnt it. And frankly I do not care about the status that comes with owning a degree. To me its only a piece of paper, and does not determine whether or not you will be successful. So I am thinking about just finishing the semester and going forward with my ventures! You need to make the plunge its that simple

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Paging @MJ DeMarco @SteveO @Vigilante among others.

Not sure if you were alluding that I skipped college, but I did graduate from college. Went for five years. Got a finance degree, hated it, stayed and got marketing.

 

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[enkay]

The entrepreneurship program at one of the universities here seems pretty bad from what I can tell. The curriculum seemed dated, more focused on all kind of things other than finding customers willing to pay for what you have to offer.

I went to their entrepreneurship fair where students showcased the project they had been working on and half of them were basically bakeries, or similar "create your own 80 hour / week job with low profit margins" businesses.

The other half seemed to be far stretched and unrealistic ideas of the type "wouldn't it be cool if we had flying cars that drove themselves" "yea that'd be great, do you have some kind of engineering background?" "nope" "ok well good luck with that".

 

[AustinS28]

I think a successful person is going to be a successful person college or not.

I have friends and a girlfriend that have gone to college and are making great money.

I have friends that have gone to college and are either unemployed, have a job that doesn't require a degree or have little drive.

I think that's what it really boils down to, a driven person is going to figure out how to accomplish their goals college or not.

School wasn't for me. I spent 4 years in college, have over 130 credits, but I got lost in the system and never finished a degree program. I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do, I switched my major so many times so all the accumulated credits wound up everywhere, nothing adding up to a bachelors degree. I had no vision in school, something just didn't feel right.

I feel blessed to have made the decision to drop out. It put me in a sink or swim situation where I needed to figure out how to make money through avenues that were "outside of the box."

I don't think college teaches people how to think outside of the box in many cases. Going into business does.

However, I don't think those 4 years were wasted. They led me here. They taught me a lot about myself. They also taught me that the road most traveled wasn't for me.

Just don't lose your drive and you'll figure it out.

 

[BlakeIC]

So you'd rather work at Papa Johns than go to college? Alrighty then...

Get out of here with that condescending bullshit

 

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[Imgal]

There are going to be people who will argue that you should have stayed and others that will tell you it's the best decision you've made. At the end of the day the only one who knows whether it was truly right or wrong is you.

Personally I studied Sports Therapy (dropped out) and then went on and a degree majoring in Social Policy with tacked Business Behaviour with it. I've essentially done any of them with either in terms of getting a job in the respective industries so you could say it was a waste of money. The truth is though that there was actually a lot of downtime with both degrees and it was that time where I really got my entrepreneurial start. People all assumed I was studying hard so didn't even bother with the "don't bother with the entrepreneurial thing" because they didn't know I was doing it! I actually feel that was worth all the money it cost me to study as while I didn't get a formal education that has really been of any use to me, learning the hard knocks of building your own business while juggling 101 other things was definitely worth it!

 

[mws87]

So you'd rather work at Papa Johns than go to college? Alrighty then...

I wouldn't assume his current job bears any indication of his "end game". He knows a job is just a job and he knows what path he wants to take. Why continue attempting to lecture him about the importance of college when he's clearly not interested?

Everyone's reality is (or should be, at least) unique to that person. Why try and impose your reality upon him? Your beliefs don't and won't nor shouldn't change his. I understand you're (hopefully) trying to offer helpful advice, however it looks as though he isn't buying. He's clearly made his choice based on thought rather than impulse.

For @Austin Barton I applaud you for making the decision. Majority of people today are incapable of making simple decisions, so taking that step toward your goals is already putting you ahead of all the others who are left still asking everyone what they should do with their lives. Use your time wisely, my friend.

-Mike

 

[Carnage]

It's a hypothetical that's happened to people hence it counters your "Having a college degree has never hurt anyone".
You can also be underemployed as a STEM graduate.

The graph below says that 79% of engineering grads (The highest percent) have jobs that require degrees. Therefore 21% do not. It gets worse for non-engineering STEM graduates.

The potential velocity for a ball dropped from the Eiffel Tower is great. If you never drop it, does it matter?

I want to add to this post.
The graph is for STEM graduates who worked jobs that require a bachelor's.... not a STEM bachelor's, so those people may not even be working in STEM after they graduate.
There is no guarantee that you'll have a high paying job from majoring in STEM, let alone a job that is in STEM or even a job.

If you want to work in STEM fields, then study hard, make connections, do internships and you will increase your chances (not guarantee) of getting a job in your desired field.
THe good thing is that a lot of companies are starting to realize that there are a lot of smart guys who know how to program without having gone to college and a lot of degree-less programmers are being hired. That's another option if you want to explore programming.

You have to do what is best for your life. Starting a business won't guarantee you success either.

 

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[blackbrich]

The fact remains that statistically, a college degree in an in demand field increases your earning potential. Throwing out anecdotes of what happened to random people is a moot point.

For the record. Citing statistical figures is not an example of an anecdote. I said "it's happened to people", because statistically, it's impossible for it not to have. Whether you trust the statistics or not is another issue.
Here's an example of a anecdote:

The majority of folks I know that dropped out of college aren't doing very well financially.

I'd also say that if someone took out $80K in loans, you better be graduating with a degree in law, science or medicine. You have to be truly foolish to take out expensive loans without seriously planning how you intend to pay those loans back. Who takes out loans and then gets a job where they need no degree?

The average tuition + room and board is around $20,000 according to The College Board.
40% of STEM grads are getting jobs that don't need a degree. Those people are wasting $80,000. They exist. Statistically.

 

[The-J]

I'd also say that if someone took out $80K in loans, you better be graduating with a degree in law, science or medicine. You have to be truly foolish to take out expensive loans without seriously planning how you intend to pay those loans back. Who takes out loans and then gets a job where they need no degree?

Your entire argument falls apart when you stop looking at it from a general point of view and start looking at it from an individual perspective.

MOST people, that is the masses, would be better suited getting an education credential. It increases their intrinsic value and opens the door for more jobs. They learn skills that help them on the job, meet people they wouldn't have otherwise met, and all in all have a great time.

However, OP here is not a slouch. He's a member of the forum and has likely read the book. He's spent the time thinking about this decision. He has a means to support himself. He's willing to go further.

He doesn't need college.

Maybe you need college. Maybe your kids need college. He doesn't.

But @Austin Barton let me warn you. You're starting to see a little bit of money and potentially a road to managing the pizza shop. You'll see that $10/hr (or whatever you're making) is shit money, but it can be livable. You'll see that taking a $30,000 manager's salary is a step up. You'll see other job opportunities come your way.

Most importantly, you'll see that going to work everyday is comfortable enough.

Don't let yourself fall in that routine. Don't take out needless debt. Don't be tempted by a shiny TV or a new car.

Do focus on building an alternate income stream. Do educate yourself on your downtime. Do seek out ways to help people and provide value.

Good luck. I wish fewer people would recommend the college route blindly.

 

[ToniLene]

For the record. Citing statistical figures is not an example of an anecdote. I said "it's happened to people", because statistically, it's impossible for it not to have. Whether you trust the statistics or not is another issue.
Here's an example of a anecdote:





The average tuition + room and board is around $20,000 according to The College Board.
40% of STEM grads are getting jobs that don't need a degree. Those people are wasting $80,000. They exist. Statistically.

"40% of STEM grads are getting jobs that don't need a degree." Cite your source on that.

If you do manage to become STEM employed without a degree you will be earning 30-40% less
than than your counterparts with a degree.

Not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur, so whether it's college, trade school or clown school the economy is transforming and if you're uneducated your chances of earning a good living are becoming increasingly slim. Especially with many IT jobs outsourced to other countries because the workers here aren't prepared.

Interesting article:

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/06/15/demand-for-educated-workers-may-outstrip-supply-by-2018/

The shift toward a “college economy” stems from a greater reliance on technology, which has recently replaced many blue collar jobs: a change from 25 million jobs for degree-holders in 1973 — 28% of the work force — to 91 million in 2007 — 42% of the workforce. Report authors Anthony P. Carnevale, Nicole Smith and Jeff Strohl estimate that 45% of the expected 166 million work force in 2018 is expected to hold an associate’s degree or higher.

 

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[ToniLene]

Your entire argument falls apart when you stop looking at it from a general point of view and start looking at it from an individual perspective.

MOST people, that is the masses, would be better suited getting an education credential. It increases their intrinsic value and opens the door for more jobs. They learn skills that help them on the job, meet people they wouldn't have otherwise met, and all in all have a great time.

However, OP here is not a slouch. He's a member of the forum and has likely read the book. He's spent the time thinking about this decision. He has a means to support himself. He's willing to go further.

He doesn't need college.

Maybe you need college. Maybe your kids need college. He doesn't.

But @Austin Barton let me warn you. You're starting to see a little bit of money and potentially a road to managing the pizza shop. You'll see that $10/hr (or whatever you're making) is shit money, but it can be livable. You'll see that taking a $30,000 manager's salary is a step up. You'll see other job opportunities come your way.

Most importantly, you'll see that going to work everyday is comfortable enough.

Don't let yourself fall in that routine. Don't take out needless debt. Don't be tempted by a shiny TV or a new car.

Do focus on building an alternate income stream. Do educate yourself on your downtime. Do seek out ways to help people and provide value.

Good luck. I wish fewer people would recommend the college route blindly.

Blindly? It's called having a back-up plan which everyone should have. The majority of businesses
fail, regardless of the work you put in. I wish OP nothing but success, but acting as if every entrepreneur will be successful is misleading.

 

[Jon L]

The fact remains that statistically, a college degree in an in demand field increases your earning potential. Throwing out anecdotes of what happened to random people is a moot point.

I'm not sure this is true. The best you can say here is that having a degree is CORRELATED with an increased earning potential.

I've never heard a anyone try to do a study that controlled for all the various variables that go into this. Of course a group of people that is willing to put in the effort required to get a degree will earn more on average than a group that doesn't. So what are we actually measuring here? The effect of the degree? I doubt it that is the entire story. The difference probably has more to do with discipline than the knowledge you gain at college.

Put up someone like the OP who is willing to work hard and learn on his own agains the average college grad, and I'd be willing to be large sums of money that the OP does better eventually than the average college grad. Even if he's currently working at Papa John's

 

[blackbrich]

@ToniLene If you'll refer to the previous graph I included concerning percent of graduates working in jobs that required degrees:
Engineering 79%
Sciences 54%
Math/Computers 69%
Agriculture 40%
I included agriculture in STEM maybe you wouldn't consider it.

I took an estimate of 60% have jobs that need degrees based on that. It was a guesstimate.
100-60 = 40%

Subtract out Agriculture, it may amount to around 73%.
100-73 = 27%

If you do manage to become STEM employed without a degree you will be earning 30-40% less
than than your counterparts with a degree.

Source? So being employed in a non degree needed job, an employer will pay 30-40% more for doing the same work? I could see 10-15%.


Acting as if every entrepreneur will be successful is foolish. As is acting as every person that goes to college will be successful.

 

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[Jon L]

@ToniLene If you'll refer to the previous graph I included concerning percent of graduates working in jobs that required degrees:
Engineering 79%
Sciences 54%
Math/Computers 69%
Agriculture 40%
I included agriculture in STEM maybe you wouldn't consider it.

I took an estimate of 60% have jobs that need degrees based on that. It was a guesstimate.
100-60 = 40%

Subtract out Agriculture, it may amount to around 73%.
100-73 = 27%



Source? So being employed in a non degree needed job, an employer will pay 30-40% more for doing the same work? I could see 10-15%.

the degree itself has very little relation to the amount of money paid.

Would an employer be willing to pay $100K/year to a Harvard grad that read facebook all day? Nope.

For most jobs, after getting hired the first time, the only thing that matters is results.

 

[Jon L]

So this is actually the first semester i've been in school. I was majoring in entrepreneurship so i could obviously start my own company. So i thought to myself, how beneficial is this as of right now. None. I haven't learned anything that i couldn't learn online or didn't already know. Hell i've learned more about business in a week online then i have this whole semester. So yesterday i said screw it and just dropped all my classes. I have a plan A right now and don't want a plan B because i feel like it will distract me from my real goals. Hopefully they turn out pretty well! I do have a job currently as it is also so im not a bum.

I say 'good for you.' I went to college, and looking back, it was largely a waste of time. The few things that I learned there that have helped me are:

1) how to do research and ask good questions - but really, there were only 2-3 classes that actually taught me this. The rest just expected me to regurgitate the stuff they spewed out from the podium.
2) proper grammar (for the most part) - bad grammar makes you look stupid.
3) broad overview of history - helpful for understanding people.

None of this requires college, though. Most of what I learned in college was useless. I would have been better served learning how to push myself hard--like you are doing. I could have learned the rest on my own.

 

[blackbrich]

I apologize for derailing this thread.

@Austin Barton I wish you much success.
I feel like you have a much clearer focus, vision and drive than me when I started college.

 

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[Austin Barton]

Not sure if you were alluding that I skipped college, but I did graduate from college. Went for five years. Got a finance degree, hated it, stayed and got marketing.

Only got 20 bucks to my name after rent and everything. I wish you had an option to buy a month of INSIDERS . I would gladly give what I have to learn more now

 

[SBS.95]

Blindly? It's called having a back-up plan which everyone should have. The majority of businesses
fail, regardless of the work you put in. I wish OP nothing but success, but acting as if every entrepreneur will be successful is misleading.

The majority of businesses fail because they do not follow the principles of CENTS.

No, not every entrepreneur will be successful. But those who take the correct actionable steps, and create a business that actually fulfills a need in the marketplace, greatly increase their chances.

At this point in the thread I am not even sure what you are trying to argue.

That OP should go back to college? College will always exist as an option for him.

That OP dropped out because he's lazy / the work was too hard? Maybe yes, maybe no. You could be right. But that's assuming an awful lot about him as a person, which is surprising coming from you given the fact that every other post of yours is dismissing people because of a lack of citations.

 

[SteveO]

Blindly? It's called having a back-up plan which everyone should have. The majority of businesses
fail, regardless of the work you put in. I wish OP nothing but success, but acting as if every entrepreneur will be successful is misleading.

When I think about it, it seems that everyone should be able to be successful as an entrepreneur. Then you watch some of the decisions that people make...

But, I did not even finish 10th grade in high school. How many years you go to school is somewhat irrelevant though. I have excellent math skills and reasonable command of the English language. Communication and math are both important if you plan on being a business person. I was a high performer in school until I decided not to be.

I did flail with low paying jobs for a few years though.

My take is that getting started in a business should be done early and often. Having enough money to have cash as a backing when you start your business is helpful as well.

 

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[SteveO]

It all really boils down to what you WANT to do. If you enjoy school then you should go and will likely be successful at learning. If you don't like school, then why waste your time.

 

[ToniLene]

I'm not sure this is true. The best you can say here is that having a degree is CORRELATED with an increased earning potential.

I've never heard a anyone try to do a study that controlled for all the various variables that go into this. Of course a group of people that is willing to put in the effort required to get a degree will earn more on average than a group that doesn't. So what are we actually measuring here? The effect of the degree? I doubt it that is the entire story. The difference probably has more to do with discipline than the knowledge you gain at college.

Put up someone like the OP who is willing to work hard and learn on his own agains the average college grad, and I'd be willing to be large sums of money that the OP does better eventually than the average college grad. Even if he's currently working at Papa John's

College graduates earn 84% more than high school grads, study says
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/08/college-gradutates-pay.html

 

[Jon L]

College graduates earn 84% more than high school grads, study says
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/08/college-gradutates-pay.html

did you read what I wrote? Everyone assumes that *college* is the reason why college grads earn more. Its not. Colleges select the top 20% of students. So, just based on that alone, never mind a whole bunch of other stuff, people selected to go to college will earn more than those that don't.

Here's a list off the top of my head of the difference (on average) between college grads and those that only graduated from high school:

College grads have:
1) Higher IQ
2) Better grades
3) stronger work ethic
4) More affluent families (that teach them how to be affluent themselves)
5) Families that value hard work

None of this has anything to do with college itself.

 

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[LifeTransformer]

Think I just found a kindred spirit in this thread with @SteveO. But that aside:

I know people who left school at 14 (I'm UK, that's only 2 years early) that started their own thing and done well, I know people that done the same thing and are bums. I know people who finished high school and are now well off, and others that aren't. I know people who went to uni, and same thing.

What separates them is the true difference, and I can't always put my finger on it.

You know what else seems all too common to me? People that seem to do everything right, they get A's in everything, go to college or uni, get the "dream job" and end up in their 30's or 40's ruined and in a place you wouldn't wish upon your worst rival.

How does that work?

 

[MoneyDoc]

Not sure why people are arguing about college vs no-college. The man dropped out, that's his choice. Whether it was a smart choice or not, is debatable, but does it matter? I don't understand why a discussion about college is going on. Just adding irrelevant posts to the OP's thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SteveO]

What separates them is the true difference, and I can't always put my finger on it.

Being driven and focused.

 

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[Arty]

The fact remains that statistically, a college degree in an in demand field increases your earning potential.

Have you read 'The Millionaire Fastlane '?
That seems like a pretty 'slowlane' way of thinking about things.

The fact remains that University is not a good investment.
One should most definitely not 'just go' to university.
Go if you, deep down in your heart, want to be a doctor or work in some other field where tertiary education is an absolute must.
You pay $40,000 AUD for a 4-year education, only to have a salary of around $60,000, up to about $120,000, and a maximum of around $300,000 if you're a doctor or some other high paying field that is EXTREMELY HARD TO GET IN TO.
Those 4 years could have been used starting and failing businesses, getting experience, freelancing, working out, travelling the world, meeting all sorts of people and finding all sorts of opportunities. (often, more than 4 years are required. Some fields require up to 10 years. That's a whole lot of time and money)

Who takes out loans and then gets a job where they need no degree?

That's the entire point. They go to University, get a degree, and still cannot find a job. This is because everybody and their grandmother go to university. There is an oversupply of people who got a 'qualification' from an overpriced institution offering a very, very expensive piece of paper.
Tertiary education should not be the default 'go-to' plan of action. It should be the exception.

Tl;dr:
Everything has an opportunity cost.
For most people, the opportunity cost of going to university instead of investing your time doing something perhaps more worthwhile, simply far outweighs the possible benefits of going to university in the first place.

 

[Lee Hyde]

College (university) isn't everything, for those who go and study to become doctors, lawyers and vets etc.. i salute you.

For those who go to follow the crowd like a sheep, who study useless degrees like film, geography and sociology then they deserve to work at subway or a supermarket (this is half of my best mates, oops haha).

No but seriously it's good you dropped out, you were clearly wasting your time.

I joined the army straight from school, become an Avionics technician and now earning thousands more than any of my friends with degrees. I have no formal qualifications.

Best of luck to you!