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Walter Hay

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Congrats @Longinus you get the book. He was the first one to respond and showed some hustle. @Walter Hay let me know how I can get the payment over to you and book to sent.
It's great to see members giving back to the Fastlane community, and I am happy to do my bit by heavily discounting the book for those who are donating the book as a prize.

@DBXI see your PMs.

Walter
 

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Roli

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Hi Walter,

I seem to remember you writing something about organising a number of smaller orders to save on air freight costs, however I can't find it now, either in your book or in this thread.

Essentially my order is ready, and I need it air freighted as the opportunity cost is too high to ship by sea. So my question is; now that the order is ready, is it OK for me to ask it to be shipped in smaller bundles?

and

Will this actually save any money?

I'm sure you used a specific term for this method; however like I say, I can't find it, it was so long ago...
 

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Hi Walter,

I seem to remember you writing something about organising a number of smaller orders to save on air freight costs, however I can't find it now, either in your book or in this thread.

Essentially my order is ready, and I need it air freighted as the opportunity cost is too high to ship by sea. So my question is; now that the order is ready, is it OK for me to ask it to be shipped in smaller bundles?

and

Will this actually save any money?

I'm sure you used a specific term for this method; however like I say, I can't find it, it was so long ago...
You'll have to ship by sea unless you absolutely need it right now in which case air freight may work.

The method you're referring to is in his book called JIT and it is for when you make smaller sized, frequent orders. Not for when you already made a big order and need it to come here.
 

Roli

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You'll have to ship by sea unless you absolutely need it right now in which case air freight may work.

The method you're referring to is in his book called JIT and it is for when you make smaller sized, frequent orders. Not for when you already made a big order and need it to come here.
Aha, thanks man. Yeah I do need it now, I need to start selling, I can't wait 2 months; I'll be broke by then....

Not sure if my order can be classed as big; it was an MOQ of just over 2000 pieces at a weight of less than half a ton.
 
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Walter Hay

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Aha, thanks man. Yeah I do need it now, I need to start selling, I can't wait 2 months; I'll be broke by then....

Not sure if my order can be classed as big; it was an MOQ of just over 2000 pieces at a weight of less than half a ton.
For that weight you should be using sea freight, but I understand the urgency.

Contact some freight forwarders and request quotes on air cargo, NOT air courier, but it MUST be on a door to door basis. Tell them you can wait a week or so (whatever you can tolerate) for arrival of the goods. That should allow a good forwarder to locate surplus air container space at a better than commodity price.

An alternative might be to leverage the cooperative attitude of your supplier as you have previously reported, and ask them to split the shipment with X pcs for immediate shipment by air and the remainder for sea freight.

You need to know weights and dimensions for the two alternatives so you can get a forwarder to quote on both.

If the goods are to go to FBA it might be worth trying AMZ Transit – Simply the #1 Logistics Company in the World

Walter
 
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For that weight you should be using sea freight, but I understand the urgency.

Contact some freight forwarders and request quotes on air cargo, NOT air courier, but it MUST be on a door to door basis. Tell them you can wait a week or so (whatever you can tolerate) for arrival of the goods. That should allow a good forwarder to locate surplus air container space at a better than commodity price.

An alternative might be to leverage the cooperative attitude of your supplier as you have previously reported, and ask them to split the shipment with X pcs for immediate shipment by air and the remainder for sea freight.

You need to know weights and dimensions for the two alternatives so you can get a forwarder to quote on both.

If the goods are to go to FBA it might be worth trying AMZ Transit – Simply the #1 Logistics Company in the World

Walter
Awesome advice as ever Walter, thank you. Funnily enough yesterday I agreed with him that I would buy a small amount of one of his free samples, they are small and light.

I was just about to email him and suggest that he air freights the new stock and sea ships the original order, however I thought let me first log onto TMFF as there may be some golden advice I should read first! So now I think I'll ask him if he can split and do this, as a sweetner I'll pay for the new stock up front as it is only a few hundred dollars.

One day in the not too distant future, I hope to be able to meet you and buy you a nice tall, well deserved drink :thumbsup::p:beer:
 

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Is there any reason a company will take Paypal for a sample order of $50 shipping but not for the full order? If they have the ability to take Paypal, why not just ask me to pay 5% fee?
 

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Is there any reason a company will take Paypal for a sample order of $50 shipping but not for the full order? If they have the ability to take Paypal, why not just ask me to pay 5% fee?
Yes, I had the exact same thing. Paypal charge them 6% for orders over $1000. I made this mistake and then rectified it before the refund came through. This gave me great credibility and the supplier started throwing lots of juicy free samples my way for zero cost.
 

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Yes, I had the exact same thing. Paypal charge them 6% for orders over $1000. I made this mistake and then rectified it before the refund came through. This gave me great credibility and the supplier started throwing lots of juicy free samples my way for zero cost.
My contact is saying paypal is ok for samples but wants T/T for order. Im wondering what the reason is. I would pay 5% on the order if it was just the issue of the fee. Ill just ask him. I thought it might have been scammy but walter helped me out
 

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My contact is saying paypal is ok for samples but wants T/T for order. Im wondering what the reason is. I would pay 5% on the order if it was just the issue of the fee. Ill just ask him. I thought it might have been scammy but walter helped me out
Cool, I'll always defer to Walter's superior knowledge, he's the expert. When it happened to me I had a second or two of doubt, but then remembered all the due diligence I had done and realised there was no way, they would want to rip me of for a few thousand dollars. Like I said, the way I reacted to it he was very grateful.

I think this is standard practice, and as newbies it goes over our heads; it is probably a little clue to them, or maybe even a test as in, "is he as big as he appears". From now on of course, we will understand this procedure.
 

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Roli

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@Walter Hay - Just to keep you up to date, my supplier has agreed to ship the new order (3 cases) and 3 cases of the old order by air and then ship the rest of the original order by sea. I'm going to let him quote for me, as yesterday he came up with an air quote that was $150 less than my quote which I had been hunting for, for weeks.

Plus he's a good guy and I want to make things easy as poss for him.
 

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My contact is saying paypal is ok for samples but wants T/T for order. Im wondering what the reason is. I would pay 5% on the order if it was just the issue of the fee. Ill just ask him. I thought it might have been scammy but walter helped me out
A customer paying by paypal/credit card can do chargebacks against the supplier.

Not so with a wire transfer.
 
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Walter Hay

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@Walter Hay - Just to keep you up to date, my supplier has agreed to ship the new order (3 cases) and 3 cases of the old order by air and then ship the rest of the original order by sea. I'm going to let him quote for me, as yesterday he came up with an air quote that was $150 less than my quote which I had been hunting for, for weeks.

Plus he's a good guy and I want to make things easy as poss for him.
I'm pleased that it has worked out so well. This should cover the issues of opportunity cost on sea shipment V almost immediate availability of goods for delivery to customers.

Walter
 
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Walter Hay

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A customer paying by paypal/credit card can do chargebacks against the supplier.

Not so with a wire transfer.
Thanks for your comments @amp0193 which are spot on.

I posted a detailed comment on payment methods here: <a href="GOLD - Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist.">Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist.</a> but I would add that even the safety of payment by L/C can be beaten by scammers if they are skillful and determined. What they do is to forge shipping documents. When presented to the bank, these apparently genuine negotiable documents are sometimes sufficient to fool bank staff and the money is paid. Read this sentence after looking at the post quoted.

Here is also another post I made about using PayPal: <a href="Notable! - Am I getting scammed?! Alibaba (Overseas Importing Payment Options)">Am I getting scammed?! Alibaba (Overseas Importing Payment Options)</a>

Walter
 

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Hi @Walter Hay, in my excitement I think I've made a dreadful mistake. As discussed with you earlier in this thread, I have got my supplier to split the load so that the bulk is going by sea and the rest by air.

The air delivery is fine, it is door to door, so there can be no hidden charges. However he is doing sea as well. He is charging $350 which sounded about right because my original charge for the full load, from my guys in the UK was £319 ($411).

Now though I am worried, as he has just mailed me saying that his agent is asking for my nearest port, I Googled what that was and came up with this article, saying that that question should raise red flags about possible hidden costs. Then I remembered your exact advice on the matter. So now I'm confused, I've asked him for the exact shipping terms, but I'm worried that I'm going to get whacked with huge clearance/handling fees once it hits the UK.

Should I just tell him to transfer the costs that I've paid for shipping to the part of the goods I haven't paid for and get my guys to sort it, who tell me that their fee includes absolutely all fees?
 
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Hi @Walter Hay, in my excitement I think I've made a dreadful mistake. As discussed with you earlier in this thread, I have got my supplier to split the load so that the bulk is going by sea and the rest by air.

The air delivery is fine, it is door to door, so there can be no hidden charges. However he is doing sea as well. He is charging $350 which sounded about right because my original charge for the full load, from my guys in the UK was £319 ($411).

Now though I am worried, as he has just mailed me saying that his agent is asking for my nearest port, I Googled what that was and came up with this article, saying that that question should raise red flags about possible hidden costs. Then I remembered your exact advice on the matter. So now I'm confused, I've asked him for the exact shipping terms, but I'm worried that I'm going to get whacked with huge clearance/handling fees once it hits the UK.

Should I just tell him to transfer the costs that I've paid for shipping to the part of the goods I haven't paid for and get my guys to sort it, who tell me that their fee includes absolutely all fees?
I would immediately tell him that you will arrange the sea freight. Shipping by sea to the UK is notoriously prone to imposition of extra fees. That is even the case if you use a UK forwarder.

The biggest problem is that the shipment often finishes up at a port different to the one you expect.

You need to find a UK forwarder (try several) and get that all inclusive quote. Make it clear that all inward costs are to be included, and get the quote in writing. The only extra cost should be duty and VAT.

Walter
 

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I would immediately tell him that you will arrange the sea freight. Shipping by sea to the UK is notoriously prone to imposition of extra fees. That is even the case if you use a UK forwarder.

The biggest problem is that the shipment often finishes up at a port different to the one you expect.

You need to find a UK forwarder (try several) and get that all inclusive quote. Make it clear that all inward costs are to be included, and get the quote in writing. The only extra cost should be duty and VAT.

Walter
Unfortunately I was under pressure to give a quick reply, I was going away on Friday and he told me he had already booked the boat. I felt that the good relations we had built up so far were under threat.

I offered to pay a cancellation fee, and told him my fears of extra handling fees and so on. He then said that he had used this agent for 4 years without any complaints from clients of extra hidden costs. He then said that he would cover any hidden costs that might arise. He stated this twice in two separate emails. Therefore, rather than insult him and insist that I wanted to sort it out myself, I took him at his word and said that I was happy to go ahead with it.

He said fine and that he would sort it out from the 2nd as it was Labor Day in China on the 1st, I felt that this was one of those face saving opportunities, whereby he has made a promise and would lose a tremendous amount of face if he didn't deliver.

What do you think?
 
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Walter Hay

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Unfortunately I was under pressure to give a quick reply, I was going away on Friday and he told me he had already booked the boat. I felt that the good relations we had built up so far were under threat.

I offered to pay a cancellation fee, and told him my fears of extra handling fees and so on. He then said that he had used this agent for 4 years without any complaints from clients of extra hidden costs. He then said that he would cover any hidden costs that might arise. He stated this twice in two separate emails. Therefore, rather than insult him and insist that I wanted to sort it out myself, I took him at his word and said that I was happy to go ahead with it.

He said fine and that he would sort it out from the 2nd as it was Labor Day in China on the 1st, I felt that this was one of those face saving opportunities, whereby he has made a promise and would lose a tremendous amount of face if he didn't deliver.

What do you think?
I would say you have made the right decision. His offer is very generous, and even if it doesn't work out quite as well as you hoped, you will have helped build what could be a very valuable relationship.

Walter
 

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I would say you have made the right decision. His offer is very generous, and even if it doesn't work out quite as well as you hoped, you will have helped build what could be a very valuable relationship.

Walter
Yes, I will still have to arrange delivery from port to warehouse, so it will cost more than my original UK sourced sea freight quote. However these things tend to be points of learning, disguised as mistakes..
 

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Hi Walter,

Carrying on from the fiasco above; my supplier has just sent me this, and I can't really make head nor tale of it, can you help me decipher it please.

Email transcript begin:

Dear Roli
Our agent by sea contact us for your side shipping cost:
LCL TERMINAL HANDLIN GBP 70/TON OR GBP40/CBM MIN GB70
Documentation GBP90 文件费
HANLDING GBP8 /BL
UK HANDLING CHARGE : GBP30/RT
CAF :GBP11/RT
if you have any question, please let me know,thanks


Email transcript end.

So my shipment is less than a ton, so does this mean that I am going to pay an extra 70 + 90 + 8 + 30+ 11 (209 GBP) on top of my shipping costs?

Plus what do the abbreviations BL, RT and CAF mean?
 

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Hi Walter,

Carrying on from the fiasco above; my supplier has just sent me this, and I can't really make head nor tale of it, can you help me decipher it please.

Email transcript begin:

Dear Roli
Our agent by sea contact us for your side shipping cost:
LCL TERMINAL HANDLIN GBP 70/TON OR GBP40/CBM MIN GB70
Documentation GBP90 文件费
HANLDING GBP8 /BL
UK HANDLING CHARGE : GBP30/RT
CAF :GBP11/RT
if you have any question, please let me know,thanks


Email transcript end.

So my shipment is less than a ton, so does this mean that I am going to pay an extra 70 + 90 + 8 + 30+ 11 (209 GBP) on top of my shipping costs?

Plus what do the abbreviations BL, RT and CAF mean?
£70 per ton or £40 per cubic meters. I think minimum is 70 british pounds but it says GB not GBP.
+ Documentation is 90£
+ Handling £8 per bill of lading
+ UK handling charge £ 30 per revenue ton
+ Currency Adjustment Factor £11 per revenue ton

So my guess would be that you would have to pay those on top as those are the additional charges but Walter would know in more details.
 

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Does 15 days to sample delivery mean business days and excluding holidays/weekends?

I paid on Apr 18 so today is exactly 14 days, but less if accounting for May Day and weekends. The PI says 15 days and he mentioned 10 days to produce, 5 days for prep I think.

The last day we spoke was Apr 19.

Should I contact him to see how it is going or for an update?

EDIT: In an earlier conversation he said production is 10 days and shipping is 5 days. I am thinking I should email him to see where we are in the process. I just dont want quality to suffer due to rushing.

I messaged him real saying I hope he had a great May day holiday and if he can send us a quick status update on sample production and shipping. Closed with hope he is doing well and regards.

He typically responds very quickly.
 
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£70 per ton or £40 per cubic meters. I think minimum is 70 british pounds but it says GB not GBP.
+ Documentation is 90£
+ Handling £8 per bill of lading
+ UK handling charge £ 30 per revenue ton
+ Currency Adjustment Factor £11 per revenue ton

So my guess would be that you would have to pay those on top as those are the additional charges but Walter would know in more details.
Well explained, thanks @Denim Chicken.

Roli, it does look as though you will be hit with a bill of at least £168 plus the Handling Charge X the weight/dimensional tonnage and Currency Adjustment Factor X the weight/dimensional tonnage.

That is provided they actually charge Handling Charge and Currency Adjustment Factor on a proportional basis. By that I mean that if the Revenue Ton amount works out at 1/2 ton, the Handling Charge should come to £15 and the Currency Adjustment Factor should come to £5.50.

That would make the total £188.50.

UK freight companies tend to be excessive in their charges, and this was what concerned me. I think you might be lucky to agree on sharing part of that bill with your supplier, but for them to pay the whole amount will probably be too much for them even though they said they would.

Walter
 
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Walter Hay

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Does 15 days to sample delivery mean business days and excluding holidays/weekends?

I paid on Apr 18 so today is exactly 14 days, but less if accounting for May Day and weekends. The PI says 15 days and he mentioned 10 days to produce, 5 days for prep I think.

The last day we spoke was Apr 19.

Should I contact him to see how it is going or for an update?

EDIT: In an earlier conversation he said production is 10 days and shipping is 5 days. I am thinking I should email him to see where we are in the process. I just dont want quality to suffer due to rushing.

I messaged him real saying I hope he had a great May day holiday and if he can send us a quick status update on sample production and shipping. Closed with hope he is doing well and regards.

He typically responds very quickly.
The amount of days is always open to interpretation. If everything goes smoothly their end, it will be days total. If they have a hitrch in their system, it will be working days.

I would be a little more patient. You are quite right in being concerned that rushing might compromise quality.

Walter
 

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The amount of days is always open to interpretation. If everything goes smoothly their end, it will be days total. If they have a hitrch in their system, it will be working days.

I would be a little more patient. You are quite right in being concerned that rushing might compromise quality.

Walter
Ok thanks. I followed up with a brief message apologizing and saying I didn't mean to rush as quality is important. Just wanted to clarify.

I'll keep myself busy doing other things rather than thinking about the samples
 

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Well explained, thanks @Denim Chicken.

Roli, it does look as though you will be hit with a bill of at least £168 plus the Handling Charge X the weight/dimensional tonnage and Currency Adjustment Factor X the weight/dimensional tonnage.

That is provided they actually charge Handling Charge and Currency Adjustment Factor on a proportional basis. By that I mean that if the Revenue Ton amount works out at 1/2 ton, the Handling Charge should come to £15 and the Currency Adjustment Factor should come to £5.50.

That would make the total £188.50.

UK freight companies tend to be excessive in their charges, and this was what concerned me. I think you might be lucky to agree on sharing part of that bill with your supplier, but for them to pay the whole amount will probably be too much for them even though they said they would.

Walter
Hey=ho, you live and you learn... I'll let you know how it goes, at least I'll have some of the product by air so I can get to selling and take some of the profit to pay for the charges. Next time I'll use my guys as they had a very reasonable all in charge.
 

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Hi Walter,

I have asked the supplier to ask the agent to give me a full quote; (just to remind you they gave me a quote for various handling charges) So I asked for a full quote door to door.

He has come back to me asking for DDU and DDP, after googling various sites, I still don't understand the difference, could you help me out with this one please. I have asked him to give me both, however I will still need to know the difference.

Thanks
 

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DDU = Delivered Duty Unpaid. (Delivered to the destination, the sender pays all costs except duties/taxes. The receiver is responsible for paying taxes/duties.)
DDP = Delivered Duty Paid. (Delivered to the destination, the sender pays everything, including taxes/duties.)

Incoterms - Wikipedia
 

Roli

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DDU = Delivered Duty Unpaid. (Delivered to the destination, the sender pays all costs except duties/taxes. The receiver is responsible for paying taxes/duties.)
DDP = Delivered Duty Paid. (Delivered to the destination, the sender pays everything, including taxes/duties.)

Incoterms - Wikipedia
Awesome thanks, didn't see/think of Wiki. Cheers.
 
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Walter Hay

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DDU = Delivered Duty Unpaid. (Delivered to the destination, the sender pays all costs except duties/taxes. The receiver is responsible for paying taxes/duties.)
DDP = Delivered Duty Paid. (Delivered to the destination, the sender pays everything, including taxes/duties.)

Incoterms - Wikipedia
I appreciate others chiming in with helpful comments. Time zone differences prevent me from answering fast enough sometimes.

One important factor regarding DDP is that suppliers generally hate it. This is because it involves more work and risk for them.

They have to get a customs broker to work out duty and taxes, then they have to outlay the money for those, including transfer costs. If the broker made a mistake, or if Customs think a different duty rate applies, they could be out of pocket.

Walter
 

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