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Robert kiyosaki method

Discussion in 'Real Estate Investing' started by Tanner Chidester, May 11, 2018.

  1. WJK
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    WJK Gold Contributor Speedway Pass

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    It's oranges and apples -- Businesses create cash flow... which is used to buy assets... which create long-term wealth. McDonald's is in the real estate business -- buying and selling major commercial corner parcels. That's where their real corporate value is found. They sell hamburgers to support their real estate business. You're conflating two different business models.
    www.wjkbusinessbuzz.com
     
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  2. Kak
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    Kak Capitalist Swine Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR

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    Kiyosaki is like this:

    You know the old saying "give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime?" That's Kiyosaki. He is teaching people to fish and charging for it. Meh. He's ok.

    Well there is a third part... Teach a man to SELL fish and he eats steak.

    I add a fourth. Lead others to fish and sell fish for you and you get to eat whatever you want, on your own jet.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  3. loop101
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    loop101 Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    There is no cashflow to buy assets, if the business is not profitable. You are putting the cart before the horse.
     
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  4. Galaxy16
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    Galaxy16 Bronze Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane Speedway Pass

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    How did he manage to author 26 books?
    Also Suze Orman seems to be a Binge Author.
    Also Robbins?.
     
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    biophase Legendary Contributor I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    He actually does say in one of his books, that under his name says Best Selling Author, not Best Selling Real Estate Investor. I don't think he ever tried to hide that part.
     
  6. DustinH
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    I've read Kiyosaki a lot. RDPD was the book that actually turned me on to starting a business and living differently than everyone else. I've read most of his books. I didn't pay for them. I borrowed them from the library or listened to them on YT.

    He made money by being an entrepreneur. He started a wallet business which was crap. He bought real estate as investments (big win). He created the Cashflow Quadrant board game (why a board game??). Then, he wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad to build his brand and actually sell the board game. The board game never took off, but his book sales did. So, he wrote a bunch of books. Built a team of Rich Dad's Advisors who also wrote books. Started doing seminars and selling those seminars/workshops around the country. He now has underlings who go around the country and do the "Want to get rich in real estate?" workshop circuit for "free admission."

    As for my thoughts on Kiyosaki. Did he lie about his backstory and upbringing? Probably... maybe not... who gives a sh*t? Honestly, who cares what his backstory is? I think he has brought tremendous value on business education through his books. I think he has great principles in his books that are important for someone to distinguish themselves from the Scripted dogma. Such as, the rich don't work for money, don't trade time for money, start businesses/investments for cash flow rather than revenue, and you don't need to go to school to start a business and make money. Also, understanding asset classes and the cashflow quadrant was valuable to me. So, I believe his teaching has an upside.

    If I read MJ's books and found out he never drove a limo or worked at a limo company before he started an online limo service, would I care? No. Who gives a sh*t what the backstory is? MJ's principles are great! So, I find a lot of value in his books because of the content.

    His advisors' books were good reads as well. Especially the one on taxes and the one on real estate investing. Watch out, though, after RDPD and Cashflow Quadrant his books were just rehashes of those two books.

    So, I would say read Rich Dad, Poor Dad and Cashflow Quadrant. Read his RD Advisors' books if they interest you. Then, just stop there. Don't buy anything else. Don't buy any of his new books because they are the exact same material as his old books. Don't do any courses or seminars because he never goes in depth enough. Go get the books from the library and don't pay for them unless you feel the need to do that.
     
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  7. Late Bloomer
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    It makes no difference is the purpose is to entertain, and to inspire through entertainment.

    It makes a HUGE difference if the purpose to is get people to rearrange their whole lives, spend LOTS of money, take massive action, and induce other people to do the same... based on a promise that the promoter actually had the real experiences and successes that they claim. Which is exactly Kiyosaki's intention.

    He could have said he wrote a "business novel" or "business fable" or "inspirational modern day epic metaphor" etc. But what if he was honest that Young Robert was mix of reality and fantasy, if he told the truth that Rich Dad was a fantasy, an imagined and idealized "what if" composite of people Robert didn't actually know and who never were friends and mentors? That would have blown out his MLM business plan.

    If people knew that Rich Dad was as fake a character as Harry Potter, they'd not have opened their nylon and velcro wallets, got a raise on their credit cards, bought mega-expensive seminars, joined the MLM, and harangued people at McDonald's as I posted about yesterday, all based on a series of fictional books.

    A business novel can be a legitimate sales tool. I mentioned "The Goal" and the follow up novels by Eli Goldratt. He was very successful getting clients who felt as trapped and stuck as Alex, the hero of Goldratt's novels. Alex was just like the kind of clients he wanted to find. He was based on, inspired by, a combination of, some of their true stories. In the novels, the hero found a mentor for hire, Jonah, just like the in-demand consultant Goldratt wanted to be. But Goldratt was ethical. He NEVER claimed that Alex and Jonah were people you might meet on stage, if you hit the 100 person, $10k/month Super Emerald Gold Downline Split Entrepreneurship Bonus Level.

    Why would you be willing to base your career, fortune, life and work, on a fiction story that was told by a liar who claims: IT'S ALL TRUE SO YOU CAN DO THE SAME? To me, that's not just a little oversight. It's a totally fatal flaw. It's not just a little scratch on the paint of the battleship. It's an iceberg with a torpedo inside, that blows up the Titanic and leaves its wreckage on the bottom of the ocean.

    If MJ never had a mattress on the floor while coding limos.com, it would make EVERY difference in the world to me, about whether a lead gen site can be a good business model, and whether the struggle might be worth it. And that's for a guy who has nothing to sell but another book, a forum upgrade, and a very moderately priced meetup. How much more should there be REAL VALID PROOF from someone who wants you to be rich by going to his $10k seminar and signing up your hundred closest relatives and buddies?

    Compare my experience and others with the evangelists of Robert's Fraud.
    Just overheard an entire Kiyoski based MLM pitch. Wow, that was painful.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  8. WJK
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    Again, you are conflating two different business models. If the "asset" creates no cash flow or additional value, then it is NOT an asset -- it's a liability. The second time around -- businesses create the cash flow used to buy the assets, which create long-term wealth.
    www.wjkbusinessbuzz.com
     
  9. Sauce
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    There are tons of people out there selling their info products. They are extremely predatory especially in the RE arena. Good operators are few and far between and RDPD seminars are among the worst. These courses are tailor made for people in the slow lane following the script.

    With that being said, I read RDPD and Cash flow quadrant. When I read them I was reading them as a business novel and for the content. They changed my life and are a large part of why I am doing what I am doing.

    @Late Bloomer this sort of thing has been going on forever. Take for example Napoleon Hill, who was also be most accounts a fraud (see https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-untold-story-of-napoleon-hill-the-greatest-self-he-1789385645) This book has also been instrumental in changing my mindset and a large part of how my Grandfather attributed the majority of his success as well (started a large life insurance, mortgage, mortuary, and cemetary biz). So should we be running around hollering about how terrible it was, or should we, as my Grandpa would say, "eat the meat and throw away the bones?"

    I have spent a bundle on seminars, courses, and coaching, and one thing I can say is buyer beware on anything that promises a silver bullet to creating a business.
     
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  10. Joshua Richter
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    Hello Tanner yes there is truth to the way he invest! There is no such thing as no money down investing your always going to have to have money, if your talking about the commercial real estate you would find a deal get an investor to partner up with you for the money down and finance the rest through the bank. But i know he talkes about house flipping to that is basically the same you find the deal get a private lender or partner with someone and split the profits to get started.
     
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  11. Real Deal Denver
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    Real Deal Denver Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I cut my teeth on RDPD. I buy used copies every time I see them to give them away. This book should be required reading for everyone. This ONE book alone surpassed all the financial literacy I learned in grades 1-12 - but I can name the capitals of every state in the union! Now's THAT'S impressive.

    I need a source for this. His rich dad is well documented in his books. He lived in Hawaii and was the superintendent of schools. There are not many people that fit that description. I see no benefit to lie about a character that is so well defined, and I don't believe he lied. Identify your source please.

    Yes. This was opened my eyes and changed the way I was thinking. Although there is more advanced information available, we all have to start somewhere.

    I have also spent a bundle. The last course I took cost $4,000 and came with a money back guarantee. I was heavily leaning towards getting a refund because that was a lot of money for me to outlay.

    After I finished the course, I realized this was the best course that I had ever taken - and perhaps the best for most other people, as well. I did not ask for a refund, and I still refer to and use the course material on a weekly basis, even though it has been two years since I took it.

    I have taken other courses that cost even more than that, as well. I've never had an issue thinking I did not get my money's worth when I was done.

    As the saying goes, "if you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
     
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  12. Late Bloomer
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    I agree that Kiyosaki did an awesome job pointing out that most people live a life of financial terms dictated by someone else, and often not for the benefit of the one living by the script. I don't have any problem with his pointing that out. It needs to be said anew in every generation, and he did a great job saying it for his generation.

    I also think his Quadrants framework is pretty useful.

    He is a very entertaining storyteller with a unique, personal, appealing, humorously self-deprecating Everyman tone of voice. He's inspired many people to question the scripts they were raised by, and to hope and reach for better. He deserves plenty of credit and acclaim for all of that!

    Robert's own father, who Robert derides as his "POOR dad" in his books for the Dad's financial conservatism, was the superintendent. I completely believe that biographical part of Robert's books is accurate.

    My concern is with the "rich dad," super-investor and rich father of Robert's rich best buddy since childhood.

    I didn't collect the bookmarks, but if you do web searches for articles from people who've tried to identify who could be the rich dad, and was such a person really involved in Robert's life since childhood, you'll probably find the same multitude of articles I did.

    I looked this up many years ago, but I think I found over a dozen independent people offering real estate advice or investment based on their own successes, or reviewing personal finance books from a perspective of critical thinking, who looked into this. And every single one said they can't find any consistent evidence of who Rich Dad might have been, or how he might actually have been known by Robert.

    These authors, journalists, and reviewers found other discrepancies about Robert's autobiographical stories of his education, military, work, business and investment experiences. Not just occasional goofs about a particular date or minor detail, but published statements in the books and recorded mentions in the seminars that seem to flat out contradict available third party evidence.

    They also pointed out that the Rich Dad series didn't start until AFTER Robert was already a "contrary skeptic to society's rules," guiding people into Large Group Awareness Seminars and MLM. With no mention at all of "Rich Dad" or any of his lessons for more than five years after Robert published his first book. Some of this information is summarized [with citations] in the Wikipedia article on Robert.

    If people are astute enough to separate inspir-tainment(TM) from worthwhile financial action plans, I'd recommend Rich Dad on that basis. Unfortunately most people say, if the story's appealing then the moral and message must also be true. And a lot of the Rich Dad advice on business and investing seems questionable to me, very overpriced at best.
     
  13. Late Bloomer
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    I agree with your post. I think the evidence shows Napoleon Hill probably made up or fantasized his Carnegie meeting and embellished some of the rest of his life.

    I think these kind of books should be sold as business novels not as completely factual non-fiction memoirs. Goldratt and his co-author sold over a million copies of The Goal. So it's possible now to put an actual business method into a fictional story and reach a lot of people, without having to pretend that a lie is the truth. Maybe in Hill's day people wouldn't have bought "inspiring business stories, some of which are true," but today they're willing to pay for an honestly labeled book.

    Another example is people using stories to convey their spiritual message. Someone tracked down the UCLA library records showing that Carlos Castaneda was in California, looking up books about shamanism, on the very dates that his novels (sold as hard fact nonfiction) claim he was in another country, personally experiencing shamanism. But more recently, Celestine Prophecy was sold as a fictional novel and sold millions of copies to people, who knew that the plot was made up or exaggerated.

    Some people say, "if you're inspired and entertained and learn something from a lie that's passed off as the truth, who cares?" I care IF the point of the story is that you should take action in your real life, non-fiction world. Which unquestionably IS the point of all of these authors, and of MJ as well.
     
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  14. lowtek
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    lowtek Platinum Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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    invest in whatever made you the money in the first place
     
  15. WJK
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    Do the learning first. There's tons of information out there. Get different points of view. Go slow. Try things before you jump in with both feet.
    www.wjkbusinessbuzz.com
     
  16. Real Deal Denver
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    WHAT the hell is the matter with me? I had the Dads switched. Reminder to self - quit buying the drugs with the blue specks in it - I think they're selling me Tide detergent!

    I will research this. I think I remember seeing a photo of his childhood friend and him together: the son of the rich dad, but that has been many years. Maybe not.

    At any rate, your post is most intriguing - as usual. Keep tabs on me so I don't screw up again, and thanks for the added insight!
     
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  17. DavidK
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    I believe that Kiyosaki is a real estate syndicator, similar to Grant Cardone... The video explains how it works.
     
  18. Late Bloomer
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    "Time and Tide Pods wait for no man!" :playful:

    Hmm!
     
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  19. loop101
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    loop101 Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    You assume a business will always be profitable. You assume that real estate will always appreciate. You assume investing the businesses profits in real estate will pay greater dividends than investing in yourself. You make a lot of assumptions.

    You have not mentioned the word "need" one single time. You haven't mentioned the word "scale" one single time. You haven't mentioned the words "intentional iteration" one single time, even though that is what you are doing. Instead, you want to nitpick on the meaning of words. I simply don't give a f*ck.
     
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  20. Tanner Chidester
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    i'll watch that!
     
  21. Tanner Chidester
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    Tanner Chidester Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER

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    That was probably the most helpful thing i've seen. So you have to become an accredited investor to get in on deals like that yes? (referring to the ones cardone does)

    Than the ones Kevin referred to anyone can do?

    The thing that amazes me is how cardone would find that property and get all those investors on board etc. seems like so many moving pieces.
     
  22. ZF Lee
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    I bought a few books of his.
    Basically, he takes his stories on his childhood, meetings with his rich dad, some of his later forages into business, certain seminars or conferences with other business people, and draws all kinds of perspectives on them.

    You can make different sweaters out of the same ball of yarn, you know?

    He did team up with other specialist people like Dolf de Roos and other, to have some books on sales, taxes and real estate. Those folks provided some knowledge that Kiyosaki himself isn't going to be a thorough expert on, but unfortunately, I have found their books, especially Dolf's Real Estate Riches, to be filler and promo material.

    There are two sides to the coin. First, we may just see this 'binge writing' as another BRO-marketing attempt.

    Second, it may be that there is such a legitimate need even for beginner-styled education, given how grossly uneducated the general public might actually be on wealth.
     
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  23. DustinH
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    I agree. That one wasn't any good. The one Ken McElroy wrote was actually informative. In my opinion, the Garret Sutton book and Tom Wheelwright book were good info as well.
     
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  24. Late Bloomer
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    Writing a book doesn't prove that anyone had anything to say. It only proves that they found a way to put their words into book format.

    A typical business book is about 200 pages. Take a couple of months to write an outline, then write a page a day, then take a couple of months to edit. There's a book done in a year. Could you write a forum post or two each day that would take a few minutes to read? There's your 400 word page a day. Organize them into 12 chapters with 5 sections each and there's your book.

    Repeat every year for a career that run 25 years, and there's your 25 books. But it's easier than that if half the material is almost exactly the same from one book to another, and half the rest of the material is given to you by your co-author while you provide the marketing hype.
     
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  25. Real Deal Denver
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    ^^^Flipping genius! Found my road map!
     
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