Reality catches up. (Rant about healthcare system)

[PhilKowalski]

“Is this the country I am supposed to be proud of?”

Yes, it sucks she got cancer, it sucks it cost money to save her life, but bloody well celebrate you live in a country where you can save at least some who get cancer.

Don’t even need to go back 100 years ago @SteveO - just look around the globe and tell me how many countries have equipment and training to treat some forms of cancer?

This guy is a major douchebag for posting this. @Thoelt53 is right, I had the same reaction.

With all dues respect, my country (Germany) has and we have what the US people hate so much (and oftenly call "communism" ) - public health insurance.

Everyone pays in it and if I or my wife gets cancer, I don't loose all my savings.

Don't get me wrong, I love the US especially of their entrepreneurial mindset and how much stronger you always rise if someone tries to bring you down, but why I have to pay with my life savings for this (and why that should be communism), I simply do not understand.

Sorry, just my 0.02

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Yes the US Healthcare system is fraught with problems.

In fact, I just had an ER room visit and the insurance and doctor bills all came to $6,200. I was there for 3 hours. The insurance company wrote-down most of it and billed me for $2G.

However, something is odd about the statement (from the OP about going bankrupt), namely, all health insurance plans now have an out of pocket max, which usually isn't that much after deductibles are hit. This is usually like 20 or 30K. Sure, spending an extra $30k a year is a big financial hit for most people.

Sounds like this poor guy didn't have much savings to begin with -- and if your savings amount to 30 or 60K., then yea, things can go south fast.

I could understand by Slowlane metrics that you spent 30k in months, and it took you 8 years to save it. Hell that would frustrate me, but it is more indicative that you adopted the “wrong system” within a flawed system. In other words, what would one expect as a rat in the rat race? You're playing by the system's default rules which means there are mostly losers, and few winners.

But generally speaking, yea, the healthcare system is really screwed up, between the high deductibles and the excessive cost. The entire slate needs to be wiped clean, which is impossible due to cronyism with health care providers and insurance companies.

In America, not having health insurance is the biggest threat to monetary wealth, even wealth in the millions. That would disappear in a matter of weeks.

 

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[Kak]

The US healthcare system is total garbage. It’s worlds away from actual capitalism which would make the cheapest and highest quality healthcare humanly possible, but no one will ever let it get there.

Many of you would be surprised to hear that for what we have to already pay in taxes as a country, I believe they might as well just socialize the damn industry at this point. The tweaks, favoritism, and regulations have already made it unbearable. Everyone has their ideas about what to do with the industry and none of them are capitalism.

Many would argue quality of care would suffer, it will, but at this point I think that’s mostly gone too.

It will certainly slow progress, but screw it. It would be better for businesses in America to not have to consider nonsense benefits package compliance.

I’m a capitalist, not a capitalist “but this that and the other,” I’m not making apologies for capitalism or making concessions that it doesn’t work. It does. In every industry. I’m just admitting defeat by the collectivists on this one, it’s like retreating from a battle to win the war. Let’s stop letting them call the US system private because it isn’t now, and it wasn’t before Obamacare either.

Letting the communists hang their hat on the American medical system and call it “failed capitalism” is bullshit. Just give them what they want and move on. This won’t be my country forever anyway.

 

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[SteveO]

Ain't worth arguing with people that think fundamentally different than you.

 

[DumplingEveryDay]

Came across this and it reminded me of the reality and why I’m on this journey. It showed me why not to give in to the dogma.

 

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[Antifragile]

With all dues respect, my country (Germany) has and we have what the US people hate so much (and oftenly call "communism" ) - public health insurance.

Everyone pays in it and if I or my wife gets cancer, I don't loose all my savings.

Don't get me wrong, I love the US especially of their entrepreneurial mindset and how much stronger you always rise if someone tries to bring you down, but why I have to pay with my life savings for this (and why that should be communism), I simply do not understand.

Sorry, just my 0.02

So does my country - Canada. And I am grateful for it. And sometimes it fails and I still use private care. That’s why the guy from the post was complaining that USA didn’t take care of his savings. Instead, he should be grateful for his wife to be alive. The two don’t compare.

I have a close personal friend whose wife battled cancer for a few years and unfortunately did not survive. Here in Canada he got everything covered. As a last ditch effort he went for experimental private care in Mexico, spent his life savings on it and it didn’t work. She passed away. Not once did I hear him complain about money. He would have given anything and everything to get her back. You can always make more money but you can‘t make more time!

That’s my issue with the post quoted by the OP. Not a debate on public or private health care.

 

[The-J]

The US healthcare system is total garbage. It’s worlds away from actual capitalism which would make the cheapest and highest quality healthcare humanly possible, but no one will ever let it get there.

Many of you would be surprised to hear that for what we have to already pay in taxes as a country, I believe they might as well just socialize the damn industry at this point. The tweaks, favoritism, and regulations have already made it unbearable. Everyone has their ideas about what to do with the industry and none of them are capitalism.

Many would argue quality of care would suffer, but at this point I think that’s gone too.

It will certainly slow progress, but screw it. It would be better for businesses in America to not have to consider nonsense benefits package compliance.

The industry is a bloated inefficient mess propped up by government regulations and it needs to hurry up and die, but it won't because peoples' lives depend on it. Ultimately, it survives because those with means are willing to pay whatever price (turns out the demand for healthcare is about as elastic as a metal rod) and those without means will simply not pay, and taxpayers will foot the bill for them (sounds like socialism to me!). Hospitals are incentivized to charge insane prices for even the most basic things because they know they'll get paid, but not always on time and not always for everything.

To fix the problem would mean putting hundreds of thousands of people out of work, lose billions on stock market value for the companies that benefit (which also means hurting the stock portfolios of the millions of Americans who are invested in these companies), and end yet another battle that politicians can fight over for votes.

Almost everyone wants the problem to be solved, but the people who don't, REALLY don't.

When people are going to F*cking Mexico to get healthcare, you know you've f*cked up as a nation. And Canada's healthcare system isn't much better (it's actually worse in some respects) but health outcomes remain considerably better across the board. Plus, Canadians never have to worry about being bankrupted from medical care. A Type 1 diabetic can take the risk of quitting his job to start his own business without worrying about losing his health insurance that literally keeps him alive.

The reality is, some people benefit more from artificially created inefficiencies than from capitalism. Hence, the US healthcare system.

 

[SteveO]

using the word "argument" is giving credit to the people who's only posts in this thread are you should die if you can't afford it cause it's your responsibility.

that's not an argument. that's just being a donkey.

That's me. Simple jackass. Don't stand behind me...

 

[MTEE1985]

but dude that's exactly what I've been saying, just talking about healthcare.

not everyone can make $20 million dollars as it was so casually laid out before by another poster.
If you have $20 million dollars, then $300,000 for a surgery is no big deal. Sure.... maybe.

But the average person, the average person that can't make $20 million.. The average person that can't even crack $50,000 annual income... And is in the rat race and spends $100,000 of their life savings for an operation? Is that a pill worth swallowing as a society?

I'm not ok with that. I'm not ok knowing that my neighbor might very well go broke/lose their home cause of cancer.
How f*cked is that to sit back and say casually "not my problem"?

Is that what this forum is?
yeah man, capitalism is great. and yeah technology helps bring that stuff. and yes, we need people to be motivated to create cures/ and invent things.. But we also can't be so crass that we're worried about f*cking chicken pox bankrupting your family.

But anyway, i think ive made my point and now it's just kicking dead horse.

I don’t actually think people are disagreeing with you as much as you think. There seems to be quite a consensus here that the US healthcare system is FUBAR.

What most people are taking issue with is the blame being cast by the post in the OP. As @MJ DeMarco pointed out, the US has a federally mandated out of pocket maximum of $8,550 per year for an individual. In which case the person posting that either A)only had that much in savings/home equity after 20 years or B) knowingly pick some obscure and really shitty insurance plan. (Or never in fact had any). In either scenario, the healthcare system did not break them, their own choices did. Getting hundreds of thousands of dollars in treatments for a maximum cost of $8,550 is not such a raw deal as that guy made it out to seem. It’s possible that I’m missing something there but I can’t think of what option C could possibly be.

What @Thoelt53 is saying is that if his wife had cancer and the worst thing that happened was they spent all their money or declared bankruptcy then he would be thrilled. You can make more money and/or come back from a BK. (Or multiple times and still become president) You cannot bring your dead wife back to life so the perspective and priorities of the poster seem to be misaligned.

For what it’s worth, I happen to agree with you wholeheartedly that the US system is an embarrassment. My main gripe against single payer is that I bear as much or more responsibility financially as honey boo boo down the street who has large chocolate milkshakes 3x a day and thinks that they are entitled to pay the exact same amount as the person who eats 10x servings of veggies a day and exercises 5 times a week. If our government or citizens actually cared about their own health as much as they do criticizing the system and lining their pockets then bring on the Medicare for all because people will require much much less care and costs should be driven considerably lower. We all know that will never happen though so the best we can do as husbands, wives, fathers and mothers is to make sure our families are taken care of, eating well and getting sunlight and exercise…ie. personal responsibility.

 

[Thoelt53]

Came across this and it reminded me of the reality and why I’m on this journey. It showed me why not to give in to the dogma.
View attachment 39049

He’s also an a**hole; putting a price on his wife’s life.

What if he had cancer? I imagine he would be happy to be alive.

Even if this clown had an 8 figure net worth, he would still be upset that his wife’s illness cost him money.

He also probably wants socialized medicine and all the ‘great’ things that come with it.

Gag.

 

[Thoelt53]

“Is this the country I am supposed to be proud of?”

Yes, it sucks she got cancer, it sucks it cost money to save her life, but bloody well celebrate you live in a country where you can save at least some who get cancer.

Don’t even need to go back 100 years ago @SteveO - just look around the globe and tell me how many countries have equipment and training to treat some forms of cancer?

This guy is a major douchebag for posting this. @Thoelt53 is right, I had the same reaction.

Agreed.

@DumplingEveryDay we’re not shitting on you. I’m glad you reading that post made you feel you need to get out the rat race. God forbid you or someone you love gets sick, you certainly don’t want it to jeopardize or bankrupt you.

Just don’t think like that guy thinks. He’s in the situation he’s in because he acts, talks and thinks like a loser.

 

[SteveO]

He’s also an a**hole; putting a price on his wife’s life.

What if he had cancer? I imagine he would be happy to be alive.

Even if this clown had an 8 figure net worth, he would still be upset that his wife’s illness cost him money.

He also probably wants socialized medicine and all the ‘great’ things that come with it.

Gag.

My thoughts also.

We have NO guarantees. Go back 100 years, not too long ago, where were our societies at back then?

 

[SteveO]

Actually, most of you trolls assumed that because I have a different perspective of how health care should be run - and how people should be treated overall - you all decided to jump down my throat

Do you really believe that this is why people are hammering you? Perhaps you should take a look at your own words.

 

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[Antifragile]

“Is this the country I am supposed to be proud of?”

Yes, it sucks she got cancer, it sucks it cost money to save her life, but bloody well celebrate you live in a country where you can save at least some who get cancer.

Don’t even need to go back 100 years ago @SteveO - just look around the globe and tell me how many countries have equipment and training to treat some forms of cancer?

This guy is a major douchebag for posting this. @Thoelt53 is right, I had the same reaction.

 

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[daivey]

With all dues respect, my country (Germany) has and we have what the US people hate so much (and oftenly call "communism" ) - public health insurance.

Everyone pays in it and if I or my wife gets cancer, I don't loose all my savings.

Don't get me wrong, I love the US especially of their entrepreneurial mindset and how much stronger you always rise if someone tries to bring you down, but why I have to pay with my life savings for this (and why that should be communism), I simply do not understand.

Sorry, just my 0.02

well said bro.
and most of the developed world - except Americans, understand this.
Those arguing for "work harder" or "life isn't fair" etc, etc, have been manipulated so bad by the media that they say this stuff ad nauseum.

 

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[daivey]

@daivey
You missed my point, so I’ll try a different angle.

The guy admits that the system made him bitter and hateful person. Read the post again.

I am saying, he should rejoice at the fact that his wife is alive. His focus is on the wrong thing.

Both are true, the system f**ed him! And his wife is alive. Which one should he be? Bitter and hateful person?

OR …

Grateful and happy she’s alive?

You tell me.

In no way am I saying “harden up and shut up about the system”, I’m saying that in life we get good and bad news all the time. You get to pick what you want to focus on. He chose to be bitter and hateful. How does his wife feel? Does she now feel he’s blaming her and her cancer for them suddenly becoming poor?

you can make more money but you can’t make more time.

I'll tell you this

just cause someone makes a post outlining the stupidity of the system they live in, doesn't mean they aren't happy their wife survived..

you paint it to be this binary thing, that somehow you can't have both?
happiness that your wife lived.
bitterness that the system is stupid and bankrupts you.

these are mutually exclusive feelings.

 

[Johnny boy]

Keep circle jerking yourself to this non-sense.

You are responsible for your family? Oh ok, so if someone comes up to you and shoots you in the head, is it your fault too cause you didn't take responsibility into your own hand by driving an armored car?/ right??

Oh BuT dAiVeY tHaTs NoT tHe SaMe ThInG.

Actually it is. You getting cancer severe enough that requires intervention which costs 100's of thousands of dollars is LITERALLY just drawing the short stick.. Flipping a coin if you will. SURE some of your life choices may contribute to it.. and sometimes it's just the short stick - genetics. So to casually sit back and say "HuR DuR I'm responsible" is just a cop out non-sense which is being shoved down your throat by FOX News and CNN...

Spare me the Ayn Rand bullshit about collectivism vs. individualism and this pure capitalist ideologue bullshit. You don't live in pure capitalism, so the stupidity you espouse by making these dumb dumb comparisons shows how naïve you are and how much the system has ingrained into your head this non-sense... that somehow you think you're smart and 'enlightened' because 'HuR DuR WoRk HaRdEr" "it's your responsbility"...

you live in a system in which lobbyists and people like PHarma Bro f*ck you over daily and have fuked up the system so bad that you are being manipulated to agree to it... So to sit there and claim that you're this moral superior person cause "I would spend every dollar I have and not complain about" is asinine and bullshit. No, you would complain about it, if it bankrupted you. you wouldn't be skipping around with a shit earing grin on your face, that's for damn sure.
If your wife got cancer and died and you bankrupted yourself, you sure as shit wouldn't be sitting there typing out your keyboard warrior non-sense about individualism vs. collectivism... But it's easy to sit there and do that, when it hasn't hit you..

"We waited only 4 weeks, for a totally non life-threatening surgery and it cost me $500 out of pocket. The cost of the operation is between $65,000-$90,000 TBD."
You're lucky enough that that surgery wasn't something not covered by insurance. Or I'm sure your whole post of 'work harder' would end there.

The point is, that "take responsibility" and "work harder" is true, but, there also has to be some balance. We are no longer living in caves, and spending 99% of time hunting for food.

Lastly, the part that alludes you guys the most, and this will not stick to you cause you're so far down the rabbit hole of this "individualism" non-sense:... and trust me, this is a tough pill to swallow for many of you, so I know a good chunk of you won't get it:

All those cancer treatments, and science experiments that have yielded all these amazing drugs, were PUBLICLY FUNDED.
Oh but how?? Pfizer paid for it!!11
Yes, all this science takes it roots from PUBLICLY funded campaigns. You can trace the origins of all of these medicines back to Wars (R&D), and University research - which is publicly funded.
You sit there and espouse capitalism and individualism and "pay your own way" when, 100% of this stuff was all discovered in the PUBLIC sector or with PUBLIC money.
Yes, the private sector marketed it and sold it to you in a nice convenient package. But the science was developed with PUBLIC money.
(and yes, you can certainly argue that capitalism helped motivate these scientists to develop this stuff on behalf of governments, etc)

anyway, these types of posts on these forums always turns into this weird group of "hard core capitalists" where "dying cause you can't afford treatment" is your fault.

capitalism does work. its a great system. except there has to be a balance. and it's clear that some of you don't understand what balance means. hence your posts "hurr durrrrrrrr responsibility". yeah, sure.

My hardcore individualism has made my life pretty awesome. Complaining pussies always want to think collectively. Its nice to not have to listen to whining bitches anymore.

 

[Kak]

I think that you're missing the forest from the trees with an overly generalized statement like that.

I think you’re a little hot and heavy with emotional nonsense. You’re barking at everyone like a total dick.

Answer the question… Who’s responsibility is your care? Mine? Everyone in America? Or yours?

You saw my first post. You liked my post. I think we might as well just be single payer with all the taxes we have and the BS we have already done. Of course, intelligent people will supplement with private insurance and ironically a lot of care would become more privatized.

That doesn’t make that the best answer to this question. Not by a long shot. I’m resigning that it might be the only answer we have in Amerizuela to write it off as a lost cause.

 

[Kak]

I’m on a health share, not a traditional insurance plan. So I have already kind of opted out. Although even this could be cheaper, if of course there was legitimate competition in healthcare driving down the cost. There certainly is competition among health share organizations.

I pay about $400/m for this now that my son is here, but it was like $280/m for just my wife and I.

My wife just had a baby, the entire ordeal from start to finish was about $45-50k. This was at the best hospital in the area and the best rated doctors in town.

My health share plan has an $8,000 per year personal responsibility, beyond that they cover everything except inconsequential copays of $50-100.

I think we had less than $9k out of pocket for this entire thing. Not that big of a deal. If it had cost $350k, I’d probably still be out $9 ish.

 

[Kak]

LOL
"They get care and are billed later."

MURICA!

good post, spoken like a true believer of Ayn Rand's philosophy.

And, like typical USA fashion: "me me me me me me"
"why should I pay for someone else".
"it's not my problem they got shot in the face".

Exactly. Exactly right there is your problem.
"as long as I get mine".
And this is USA vs. rest of the world. Which coincides perfectly with what it's perfectly ok for someone to go bankrupt in the USA due to medical bills. Cause it's not your problem.
United we stand. Divided we fall.

Ayn Rand is one of my favorite authors. Atlas Shrugged one of my absolute favorite books. My only problem with Rand is that she didn’t have better tact and explain herself better.

We would have less people like you taking her out of context.

If you want a better explanation of rational self interest. Might I suggest Human Action by Ludwig Von Mises.

Great post though, I can’t argue with all that sense you made there! I mean wow, “Murcia” I never thought of it that way! And AyN RaND is bAdd” wow. I’ll just take your word for it. I hate Ayn Rand now.

There are two kinds of people in this world. Makers and takers. You are just one of the takers and you justify it with this nonsense with a notion of selflessness. It isn’t selflessness to give away someone else’s money by taking it at gunpoint. It is virtue signaling.

It still isn’t my problem if someone I’ve never met gets shot in the face. It also isn’t my problem if they choose not to buy insurance. Make no mistake, it is a CHOICE. It isn’t my problem if they end up in medical debt because of their decision not to buy insurance. That’s what insurance is for, the unexpected, and I would never force them to buy insurance. That is their choice, not mine.

 

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[DeletedUser84644]

The biggest irony here is your user name, being "faux pas".

The fastest fastlaning there is, is going over someone's previous post to 1-up them and put them down cause you don't like they are providing you an opposing point of view.

Rather than stick to the argument at hand, you'd rather dig up dirt, which is just mind boggling to me lol. I actually never said that people shouldn't work hard, and strive to make money, or, live the fastlane/become the fastlane lifestyle.

Actually, most of you trolls assumed that because I have a different perspective of how health care should be run - and how people should be treated overall - you all decided to jump down my throat.

One of the other super fastlane peoples called me a douchebag and a moron! I'm impressed. I guess I am a douchebag for suggesting that people that get sick from serious illnesses shouldn't have to go bankrupt.???

Imagine that... I am the douchebag, for merely suggesting that there is a BETTER WAY than letting your fellow Americans, go bankrupt. Instead, you keep pounding the pavement: people should "work hard" and "take responsibility".

Let them eat cake...as the say goes.

It's not really what you're saying. It's HOW you're saying it. If you want to have a meaningful open dialogue with people you must do so in a constructive, formal manner. They way you are doing it right now is grossly childish and ineffective. If you're really 35+ you ought to have the life experience already to know this.

 

[SteveO]

Hard to believe that any of us wasted our time on this thread. Exit... stage right...

 

[Thoelt53]

let us know when you get that $20million of liquid net worth. Don't think too many people on these forums have accomplished that feat. Let alone 0.01% of the population.

I’m sorry that big goals intimidate you.

 

[100k]

Don't be a "leftie" or "commie". You should pay for your own insurance, if you can't afford it... tough luck. Work harder I guess. Tax is theft.

 

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[Steeltip]

He’s also an a**hole; putting a price on his wife’s life.

What if he had cancer? I imagine he would be happy to be alive.

Even if this clown had an 8 figure net worth, he would still be upset that his wife’s illness cost him money.

He also probably wants socialized medicine and all the ‘great’ things that come with it.

Gag.

I don't think it's so much putting a price on his wife's life as it is frustration with the fact that one emergency can wipe out 20 years of hard work.

 

[StrikingViper69]

The US healthcare system is total garbage. It’s worlds away from actual capitalism which would make the cheapest and highest quality healthcare humanly possible, but no one will ever let it get there.

Many of you would be surprised to hear that for what we have to already pay in taxes as a country, I believe they might as well just socialize the damn industry at this point. The tweaks, favoritism, and regulations have already made it unbearable. Everyone has their ideas about what to do with the industry and none of them are capitalism.

Many would argue quality of care would suffer, but at this point I think that’s gone too.

It will certainly slow progress, but screw it. It would be better for businesses in America to not have to consider nonsense benefits package compliance.

For some reason people are incapable of understanding that the US healthcare system is not private healthcare.

 

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[Thoelt53]

I don't think it's so much putting a price on his wife's life as it is frustration with the fact that one emergency can wipe out 20 years of hard work.

What’s more frustrating: losing 20 years of savings or losing your wife?

I’d spend every penny I have to save my wife’s life. If I was broke after that, there is only one person to blame. And it ain’t my wife. Or the doctor, hospital, insurance company or system.

I can’t see how the gratitude I would feel to have my wife see another day could be outweighed by money. I’d give my life for her, and I can’t put a price on mine.

BTW, I am not saying the US health care system isn’t f*cked up. I am saying that I can’t change that, but I can change my bank account and put myself in a position where a medical crisis won’t bankrupt my family.

 

[daivey]

So does my country - Canada. And I am grateful for it. And sometimes it fails and I still use private care. That’s why the guy from the post was complaining that USA didn’t take care of his savings. Instead, he should be grateful for his wife to be alive. The two don’t compare.

I have a close personal friend whose wife battled cancer for a few years and unfortunately did not survive. Here in Canada he got everything covered. As a last ditch effort he went for experimental private care in Mexico, spent his life savings on it and it didn’t work. She passed away. Not once did I hear him complain about money. He would have given anything and everything to get her back. You can always make more money but you can‘t make more time!

That’s my issue with the post quoted by the OP. Not a debate on public or private health care.

the post was pointing out the frustration of how living in a developed country can bankrupt you for things like cancer treatment.
sure, you can make more money. but to deny the stress, and all the other non-sense that comes with pretty much losing everything you built in 3 months, cause of a few doctors visits, is asinine.

Choosing to pay for experimental therapy is one thing, but it's not the same as going bankrupt for regular cancer therapies.

Your story is non-sensical and does not apply. You're literally comparing apples to oranges. Shame you can't see that in your anecdote.

I'm sure your friends tune would change had he spent his life savings for REGULAR treatment in REGULAR hospitals in Canada.

 

[daivey]

It’s locus of control. I would spend everything I have to save my wife or my children. I would never blame the system, my wife or anyone else.

I am responsible for my family. That responsibility doesn’t lie with the system, state or even God.

Here again we see the schism of collectivism vs individualism. You either get it or you don’t.

Keep circle jerking yourself to this non-sense.

You are responsible for your family? Oh ok, so if someone comes up to you and shoots you in the head, is it your fault too cause you didn't take responsibility into your own hand by driving an armored car?/ right??

Oh BuT dAiVeY tHaTs NoT tHe SaMe ThInG.

Actually it is. You getting cancer severe enough that requires intervention which costs 100's of thousands of dollars is LITERALLY just drawing the short stick.. Flipping a coin if you will. SURE some of your life choices may contribute to it.. and sometimes it's just the short stick - genetics. So to casually sit back and say "HuR DuR I'm responsible" is just a cop out non-sense which is being shoved down your throat by FOX News and CNN...

Spare me the Ayn Rand bullshit about collectivism vs. individualism and this pure capitalist ideologue bullshit. You don't live in pure capitalism, so the stupidity you espouse by making these dumb dumb comparisons shows how naïve you are and how much the system has ingrained into your head this non-sense... that somehow you think you're smart and 'enlightened' because 'HuR DuR WoRk HaRdEr" "it's your responsbility"...

you live in a system in which lobbyists and people like PHarma Bro F*ck you over daily and have fuked up the system so bad that you are being manipulated to agree to it... So to sit there and claim that you're this moral superior person cause "I would spend every dollar I have and not complain about" is asinine and bullshit. No, you would complain about it, if it bankrupted you. you wouldn't be skipping around with a shit earing grin on your face, that's for damn sure.
If your wife got cancer and died and you bankrupted yourself, you sure as shit wouldn't be sitting there typing out your keyboard warrior non-sense about individualism vs. collectivism... But it's easy to sit there and do that, when it hasn't hit you..

"We waited only 4 weeks, for a totally non life-threatening surgery and it cost me $500 out of pocket. The cost of the operation is between $65,000-$90,000 TBD."
You're lucky enough that that surgery wasn't something not covered by insurance. Or I'm sure your whole post of 'work harder' would end there.

The point is, that "take responsibility" and "work harder" is true, but, there also has to be some balance. We are no longer living in caves, and spending 99% of time hunting for food.

Lastly, the part that alludes you guys the most, and this will not stick to you cause you're so far down the rabbit hole of this "individualism" non-sense:... and trust me, this is a tough pill to swallow for many of you, so I know a good chunk of you won't get it:

All those cancer treatments, and science experiments that have yielded all these amazing drugs, were PUBLICLY FUNDED.
Oh but how?? Pfizer paid for it!!11
Yes, all this science takes it roots from PUBLICLY funded campaigns. You can trace the origins of all of these medicines back to Wars (R&D), and University research - which is publicly funded.
You sit there and espouse capitalism and individualism and "pay your own way" when, 100% of this stuff was all discovered in the PUBLIC sector or with PUBLIC money.
Yes, the private sector marketed it and sold it to you in a nice convenient package. But the science was developed with PUBLIC money.
(and yes, you can certainly argue that capitalism helped motivate these scientists to develop this stuff on behalf of governments, etc)

anyway, these types of posts on these forums always turns into this weird group of "hard core capitalists" where "dying cause you can't afford treatment" is your fault.

capitalism does work. its a great system. except there has to be a balance. and it's clear that some of you don't understand what balance means. hence your posts "hurr durrrrrrrr responsibility". yeah, sure.

 

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[daivey]

My hardcore individualism has made my life pretty awesome. Complaining pussies always want to think collectively. Its nice to not have to listen to whining bitches anymore.

strange, you're in this thread labelled "rant"?

for all that individualism, you're on a forum benefiting from collectivism.
on the internet..
developed by public sector...
to benefit all man kind.

go johnny go go, goo go gogo johnny goo

 

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