Pulled Over by Police (due to COVID) Do I Talk?

[biggeemac]

Lots of police stops on the freeway here in Oregon. I would love to go and pick up a trailer to work on my property today. What can be done about this over-reach of police activity?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

Lots of police stops on the freeway here in Oregon. I would love to go and pick up a trailer to work on my property today. What can be done about this over-reach of police activity?

Most people begged for this. Now you need to be happy, because democracy.

Don't talk to them. You have a right to not talk to them at all. The only thing I would do is politely let them know that I don't intend to talk to them.

 

[GuestUser4aMPs1]

Don't talk to them. You have a right to not talk to them at all. The only thing I would do is politely let them know that I don't intend to talk to them.

Question about this.

I understand that it's our right to remain silent, but I never, EVER could think of a time that it wouldn't arouse suspicion with a police officer and potentially have an otherwise harmless interaction escalate into something worse.

Damned if you talk, damned if you don't talk then I guess?

How exactly do you handle a potential over-reaching of the law?

 

[James Klymus]

Question about this.

I understand that it's our right to remain silent, but I never, EVER could think of a time that it wouldn't arouse suspicion with a police officer and potentially have an otherwise harmless interaction escalate into something worse.

Damned if you talk, damned if you don't talk then I guess?

How exactly do you handle a potential over-reaching of the law?

The reasoning to not talk is you don’t want to incriminate your self. This is true for traffic stops as well. The police aren’t your buddies that you chit chat with. He’s talking to you, more than likely, to get you to incriminate your self.

You want to be respectful with them, don’t be a dick, but it’s important to remember that there is basically no upside for you and unlimited potential upside for the officer.

Listen to the officers directions, let him do the talking, take the ticket/warning and be on your way. Don’t argue with him and don’t incriminate your self.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[lowtek]

Question about this.

I understand that it's our right to remain silent, but I never, EVER could think of a time that it wouldn't arouse suspicion with a police officer and potentially have an otherwise harmless interaction escalate into something worse.

Damned if you talk, damned if you don't talk then I guess?

How exactly do you handle a potential over-reaching of the law?

It depends on the cop and the jurisdiction. Backwater sheriff's deputy? Possibly going to give you a beat down.

City cop with strict oversight? Probably get away with it as long as you don't cop an attitude.

 

[Kak]

Question about this.

I understand that it's our right to remain silent, but I never, EVER could think of a time that it wouldn't arouse suspicion with a police officer and potentially have an otherwise harmless interaction escalate into something worse.

Damned if you talk, damned if you don't talk then I guess?

How exactly do you handle a potential over-reaching of the law?

It might... Although, I practice EXTREME MINIMAL, yet polite, interaction at traffic stops and out of probably 50 traffic stops in my life, this is the only problem I have ever had.

They did ask to search my car once and I politely told them they need a warrant, because they don't have my permission. He threatened to call the K9 unit to which I said nothing, because I didn't know the law on it, but I was certainly not going to give them permission for that either. Another cop showed up. I thought I was going to jail. I texted my wife to let her know just in case. They let me go, no ticket.

Don't give them permission to do anything. They will do whatever you give them permission to do.

Of course if they would have searched my car, they would have found nothing, but I don't trust them not to plant something. They pull you over for one reason, trouble. I am NOT going to make their job any easier.

I also suggest a high quality radar detector from Beltronics, Escort, or Valentine and use Waze or Google maps whenever possible. Prevention of a traffic stop is more important than managing one. I know they are going to be there from a mile back. I am usually going 1 mph under the speed limit and give them a nice bootlicker wave for good measure.

Also, never buy a Chrysler 300. You'll never drive by cop unmolested.

 

[biggeemac]

The reasoning to not talk is you don’t want to incriminate your self. This is true for traffic stops as well. The police aren’t your buddies that you chit chat with. He’s talking to you, more than likely, to get you to incriminate your self.

You want to be respectful with them, don’t be a dick, but it’s important to remember that there is basically no upside for you and unlimited potential upside for the officer.

Listen to the officers directions, let him do the talking, take the ticket/warning and be on your way. Don’t argue with him and don’t incriminate your self.

Correct ! When you "remain silent", you are in the best position that you can possibly be in. Any talking will lower your leverage....sometimes substantially. This is true whether you are guilty or innocent.

We're getting off topic though.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

I just bought his book. We should ALL be VERY WELL educated on this.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FENubmZGj8

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I've extracted the police threads to their own thread to keep the CV19 thread on topic.

 

[socaldude]

A police officer needs reasonable suspicion to pull you over and detain you. A "hunch" that you are violating shelter in place orders is not enough. Now they can pull you over and ask you what you are doing. But at that point you are enaging in an interrogation with an officer at your own consent and risk. If you say too many "uumms" and "buuts" nerviously or change your story you can probably be charged with violating the order and lying to an officer which is also illegal.

Normally i would say be polite and engage in conversation with a cop but at this point you are better off not consenting to any conversation, just tell them to give you the ticket for whatever they pulled you over in the first place. Or just be straight up and say you are heading to do essential errands.

Remember only a jury or a judge can have the final say on whether something is true or not or if a law has been broken try not to prove your innocence where you dont need to like out in the streets to an officer. You have zero burden of proof to prove you are not violating any orders or laws.

You can assert your rights all while still being polite. Just say no thank you i dont want to talk, im using the 5th.

I forgot which supreme coury case it is, but you have to be clear you are using your 5th amend right.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Bekit]

I haven't gotten pulled over very many times, but it has always been a polite, cordial interaction with limited talking. I've never had a speeding ticket, and I drive like a granny.

But a few months ago, it was different.

I got pulled over and didn't know what it was for. The cop asked for my driver's license and registration. Normal. But while I was getting them out, he asked me this rapid-fire set of questions that I answered automatically, without thinking.

Him: Where have you been and where are you heading?

Me: I'm coming from [city], and this is where I live. (He pulled me over almost in my subdivision).

Him: Are you under the influence? Been drinking anything tonight?

Me (indignant): No.

Him: Any drugs or alcohol in the vehicle?

Me: No.

Him: Any weapons in the car?

Me (getting weirded out): No.

This string of "No" answers came with knee-jerk quickness, but I started thinking, "What is this? I've never been asked a series of questions like this before."

He went back to his car with my license and registration and sat there for a while. He came back and told me that he pulled me over because when I turned right from one of the side streets onto the main road, I immediately got into the left lane instead of turning into the right lane and then changing lanes. He seemed embarrassed as he stated this. He gave me a warning and let me go.

Afterwards, I was thinking, "Wow. That series of questions was designed to either get someone to incriminate themselves in front of the officer or see if they start stammering and looking guilty."

Basically, I felt like it was just harassment. He judged the car I was driving (a 1997 Toyota Corolla) and contrived a reason to pull me over. He treated me with the assumption that I was from the class of people who might be carrying drugs and are therefore afraid of police and easy to exploit in a stop like this. When I turned out to be a well-spoken, law-abiding citizen dressed like a businessperson, I was let go without much further comment.

But it showed me that things are different now. And this was before all this coronacraziness happened.

I concluded that if I get pulled over again, I'm going to do what @Kak has suggested. At that first question ("Where have you been and where are you headed"), I'll simply politely respond, "I'm sorry, I'm going to exercise my right to remain silent," and not say anything further. If they press me, I'll respond with, "Please obtain a warrant to obtain this information," and just gaze at them pleasantly while keeping my mouth shut.

 

[SteveO]

I was on the wrong side of the law many times in my younger days. Had enough experience talking to the police to understand when not to talk. None of my family or friends would have been surprised if I would have ended up in prison.

It kind of ran in our family though. Two of my cousins and a nephew died in early adulthood from foul play.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Afterwards, I was thinking, "Wow. That series of questions was designed to either get someone to incriminate themselves in front of the officer or see if they start stammering and looking guilty."

What a few hours of LivePD -- it is sick how the cops pull people over for stupid shit, license plate lights, crossing a street line; all of it is a FRONT to bust people who are struggling in poverty, a revenue source so they can be dinged for insignificant violations, marijuana, paraphernalia, driving without a seat belt -- random stuff from people minding their own business.

"Where you coming from tonight?"
"None of your F*cking business."

I've always held cops in high regard, but after watching a few hours of it, my view has changed on the police in general ... from these live tag-a-longs, it's clear that their primary purpose isn't to resolve crime, it is to enlarge municipal coffers. The former is just an alibi to conduct these operations.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[SteveO]

What a few hours of LivePD -- it is sick how the cops pull people over for stupid shit, license plate lights, crossing a street line; all of it is a FRONT to bust people who are struggling in poverty, a revenue source so they can be dinged for insignificant violations, marijuana, paraphernalia, driving without a seat belt -- random stuff from people minding their own business.

"Where you coming from tonight?"
"None of your F*cking business."

I've always held cops in high regard, but after watching a few hours of it, my view has changed on the police in general ... from these live tag-a-longs, it's clear that their primary purpose isn't to resolve crime, it is to enlarge municipal coffers. The former is just an alibi to conduct these operations.

Yep. That is certainly one of their modes of operation.

I have a deep respect for the job that these guys are faced with. But, I also have some stories. A couple would make your eyes bug out.

All in all I don't trust them. Too bad, because I want to...

 

[socaldude]

I've always held cops in high regard, but after watching a few hours of it, my view has changed on the police in general ... from these live tag-a-longs, it's clear that their primary purpose isn't to resolve crime, it is to enlarge municipal coffers. The former is just an alibi to conduct these operations

You know I think most people would be shocked at the kind of stuff that happens in our court rooms and out in the field with law enforcement but a lot of it is swept under the rug to save face. Shocking how much our rights have been thrown away all with disproportional excuses by those in power.

Growing up I used have a lot of respect for our “system” but it’s nothing but a bunch of hypocrites using positions of authority to express their sociopathic tendency all under the veil of moral superiority.

Not hating, just saying what I have noticed about our society. Also I think more people are waking up to stuff like this. As our population grows, resources become more scarce, and rights become eroded I’m not very optimistic about the future.

 

[InspireHD]

I just want to leave a polite reminder that there is at least one member of this forum who is a police officer.

Sometimes, it’s comments like these or openly generalized discussions that cause me to be ashamed to admit that.

If anyone has any questions, I will try to answer them.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

I just want to leave a polite reminder that there is at least one member of this forum who is a police officer.

I know and I remembered that as I wrote. My commentary was "in general" -- not targeted toward him. I know the profession is tough and that, like with anything, there are always bad apples.

 

[SteveO]

I just want to leave a polite reminder that there is at least one member of this forum who is a police officer.

Sometimes, it’s comments like these or openly generalized discussions that cause me to be ashamed to admit that.

If anyone has any questions, I will try to answer them.

So you can probably give us great information on what to say or not.

It is obvious what the police are faced with on a regular basis. Sometimes the tactics are affecting good people though.

We need the police. They have a tough job. Some are a bit overzealous though.

 

[James Klymus]

Or just be straight up and say you are heading to do essential errands.

You could, But if they want to dig a little deeper on that and they continue to question you, You cant all of the sudden "plead the 5th" and stop talking if they ask a question you dont want to answer. Answering questions and stopping can be considered suspicious.

I wouldn't engage in a conversation period. Have them write up the citation, and argue it in court if you must.

I also want to say that I don't hate the police. I think most police officers are just doing their job, which is a tough one.

But with the situation we are in currently, you never know what could happen. There are a lot of freedoms that are being stepped on currently, and maybe it's been justified and is necessary for a bit so that we can come out as a society stronger. But you have the right to not incriminate your self, so use it.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[socaldude]

Sometimes, it’s comments like these or openly generalized discussions that cause me to be ashamed to admit that.

Just to be clear, law enforcement is a tough job. You work with the public. These people deserve kindness and respect.

Any position in our society attracts bad apples. Even entrepreneurship.

Like anything in life i think solutions should be met with understanding and kindness.

 

[Kak]

I just want to leave a polite reminder that there is at least one member of this forum who is a police officer.

Sometimes, it’s comments like these or openly generalized discussions that cause me to be ashamed to admit that.

If anyone has any questions, I will try to answer them.

Of course!

This is why we are discussing being polite and courteous while also asserting our rights. The problem with shunning the generalizations is that the advice from a lawyer is generalized and correct.

Why?

The fact is when you see red and blue lights behind your car, you don't know if you're going to get the guy I talk to at church all the time, and consider a friend. The guy who knows I have his back and he has mine if something bad happens... Or a cop with a power complex just one nervous stutter away from pulling someon out of the car and pinning some BS charge on them.

Like it or not we have to look out for our own freedom... Thus, the correct move when dealing with police is a generalized move and shouldn't be taken as an offense to you or any other officers. Don't talk.

If you pulled me over, I would comply, quietly and politely and be done. I am not going to chit chat roadside about where I am going, where I came from or what my plans are for the day. In the context of a traffic stop we are not church friends or forum friends and that is none of your business.

So my question is this... Do you have kids? What would you tell them to do if the police started asking them questions?

 

[Kak]

L. Gordon Crovitz: You Commit Three Felonies a Day

Gordon Crovitz writes in The Wall Street Journal that technology exacerbates the problems created by laws that are so open and vague that they are hard to abide by. Harvey Silverglate estimates in his new book "Three Felonies a Day" that the average American unwittingly commits three felonies a...

www.wsj.com

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[InspireHD]

So, this became quite long. I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about the job I do or about me personally. I'm just trying to provide some perspective because I respect all of you. There is no one right answer to any of this. I'm not trying to change your mind. Part of me takes it personal to see my profession slammed while people are not aware that we, the police, walk among (amongst?) you in every day life.

I am a police officer but I'm no different than you. I dream of bigger things. I have a family. I have goals and hobbies. I have a life outside of my work. I want to own a G700 someday too! And a golf course. And write a book. And travel. And all of those other cool things you guys do.

The fact is when you see red and blue lights behind your car, you don't know if you're going to get the guy I talk to at church all the time, and consider a friend. The guy who knows I have his back and he has mine if something bad happens... Or a cop with a power complex just one nervous stutter away from pulling someone out of the car and pinning some BS charge on them.

I can't speak for all of them. There are some who shouldn't be in the position they are in. Many, many years ago, a public civilian was complaining to me about a high-ranking officer who I worked with and told me, "Someone who wants the power shouldn't have it." The more I think about it, it's probably true. Policing has changed quite a bit in my short 11 years on the job. It isn't what it used to be. Everything is liability driven and everyone just wants to cast the problem or blame onto someone else. Usually, it comes down to the police being the bad guys. We have difficult decisions to make, especially when you're ordered to do so. We end up taking the heat because people who pay taxes feel they have a right to scream and yell at the men and women in uniform.

Police officers deal with a lot more than a random person driving down the street going a little too fast. I know we didn't talk very much, in fact, I think I said one thing to you in passing about your speech (I still think about it all the time, by the way). For those I spoke to and asked me about what I do, I think maybe they saw a different side to the insanity I personally deal with. Not to get too morbid, but in the last year I responded to a fatal plane crash, found a guy who committed suicide, and watched a lady take her last breath on Christmas in front of her family - just to name a few. (I'm not afraid to admit that I've struggled with some mental health issues related to those incidences).

Then on a near daily basis, you have people yelling at you because their neighbor is parking their truck in front of their house and they want to file a complaint when they aren't happy with how you handled their "problem." A few years ago, I had a person file a complaint against me for helping them get their keys and shoes off the roof of a building (but that story is for another day).

Why do I say all this? Because, a police officer does a lot more than just sit on the side of the road and wait for someone to drive a little too fast. Unless you're a traffic cop. Then, you probably don't do anything else.

I try to be fair as much as I can. I like to walk away feeling like we both got something out of the encounter. We also need to be clear that I'm not just protecting you. I'm protecting all of the other unknown victims who we will never see be saved from that brief interaction with each other.

We all drive safely until we don't. By then, it might be too late and you (people in general) become a statistic.

Like it or not we have to look out for our own freedom... Thus, the correct move when dealing with police is a generalized move and shouldn't be taken as an offense to you or any other officers. Don't talk.

If you pulled me over, I would comply, quietly and politely and be done. I am not going to chit chat roadside about where I am going, where I came from or what my plans are for the day. In the context of a traffic stop we are not church friends or forum friends and that is none of your business.

Fair enough, but I just want to say that this does create some tension. I'll elaborate a little more below.*

So my question is this... Do you have kids? What would you tell them to do if the police started asking them questions?

I do. I think I might see a different side to the field because I know most of the inner workings and mentality of police officers. I've been pulled over a few times when I was younger and it's definitely not a pleasant feeling being powerless in that moment wondering what is about to come. I also think it's an over reaction to think that a routine traffic stop is going to result in some BS charge or that power-hungry PoPo is going to plant drugs in your car. Just because you hear it on the news once or twice doesn't mean it happens to everyone.

But while I was getting them out, he asked me this rapid-fire set of questions that I answered automatically, without thinking.

Afterwards, I was thinking, "Wow. That series of questions was designed to either get someone to incriminate themselves in front of the officer or see if they start stammering and looking guilty."

*I wouldn't say that it was meant to make you look guilty. Depending on the situation, sometimes those questions are meant to check your ability to comprehend doing two or three tasks at the same time. Drunk drivers can often only handle one task at a time. So, you ask them for their license and while they are getting it, you ask another question. Usually they will stop what they are doing and answer the question and then just sit there completely forgetting that they were working on pulling their license out of their wallet. A simple few questions like that and it's really obvious.

Field sobriety tests aren't exactly to check if you're drunk. They are a set of attention-dividing tasks to check if you're capable of safely operating a motor vehicle.

Over 10 years ago, I was driving to California and I got stopped by the Border Patrol somewhere around Yuma, AZ I think. They asked me which country I was from. I wasn't prepared for that question because I went into the checkpoint thinking, "Wow, this is pretty cool." But you have these big, muscular guys towering over your car and when you say, "Hello, how's it going," and their answer is, "Where are you going?" and "Which country are you from?" I stuttered a little bit because I'm obviously from the USA and I speak perfect English. Can't you tell that just from looking at me?

Yes, from my single perspective driving alone in my car across the entire country for the past two days (I think I made it in less than 48 hours). However, they have been standing out there on the Mexico border for the past 3 months, 12 hours a day filtering thousands and thousands of cars trying to find whatever it is they are looking for. So, I stuttered. I felt like a fool. I drove away feeling like I did something wrong. They had a job to do. It worked out okay and life went on.

Basically, I felt like it was just harassment. He judged the car I was driving (a 1997 Toyota Corolla) and contrived a reason to pull me over. He treated me with the assumption that I was from the class of people who might be carrying drugs and are therefore afraid of police and easy to exploit in a stop like this. When I turned out to be a well-spoken, law-abiding citizen dressed like a businessperson, I was let go without much further comment.

I doubt this is actually how it happened from the officer's perspective unless you were leaving a known high-crime area at 2:30 in the morning.

I concluded that if I get pulled over again, I'm going to do what @Kak has suggested. At that first question ("Where have you been and where are you headed"), I'll simply politely respond, "I'm sorry, I'm going to exercise my right to remain silent," and not say anything further. If they press me, I'll respond with, "Please obtain a warrant to obtain this information," and just gaze at them pleasantly while keeping my mouth shut.

Again, this just creates tension. If you have nothing to hide, then just be honest. You are a nice enough person to understand that. Police aren't the enemy. We are people too.

Like I said, I don't want this to become about me. This is just some of what I wanted to touch on. I can't speak for everyone and will not try to. Regardless of your thoughts on police as a whole, I am here with all of you trying to achieve a better life. I hope that in some way we can all continue fighting for the common goal of what this community represents. I am one of you.

 

[Kak]

So, this became quite long. I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about the job I do or about me personally. I'm just trying to provide some perspective because I respect all of you. There is no one right answer to any of this. I'm not trying to change your mind. Part of me takes it personal to see my profession slammed while people are not aware that we, the police, walk among (amongst?) you in every day life.

I am a police officer but I'm no different than you. I dream of bigger things. I have a family. I have goals and hobbies. I have a life outside of my work. I want to own a G700 someday too! And a golf course. And write a book. And travel. And all of those other cool things you guys do.



I can't speak for all of them. There are some who shouldn't be in the position they are in. Many, many years ago, a public civilian was complaining to me about a high-ranking officer who I worked with and told me, "Someone who wants the power shouldn't have it." The more I think about it, it's probably true. Policing has changed quite a bit in my short 11 years on the job. It isn't what it used to be. Everything is liability driven and everyone just wants to cast the problem or blame onto someone else. Usually, it comes down to the police being the bad guys. We have difficult decisions to make, especially when you're ordered to do so. We end up taking the heat because people who pay taxes feel they have a right to scream and yell at the men and women in uniform.

Police officers deal with a lot more than a random person driving down the street going a little too fast. I know we didn't talk very much, in fact, I think I said one thing to you in passing about your speech (I still think about it all the time, by the way). For those I spoke to and asked me about what I do, I think maybe they saw a different side to the insanity I personally deal with. Not to get too morbid, but in the last year I responded to a fatal plane crash, found a guy who committed suicide, and watched a lady take her last breath on Christmas in front of her family - just to name a few. (I'm not afraid to admit that I've struggled with some mental health issues related to those incidences).

Then on a near daily basis, you have people yelling at you because their neighbor is parking their truck in front of their house and they want to file a complaint when they aren't happy with how you handled their "problem." A few years ago, I had a person file a complaint against me for helping them get their keys and shoes off the roof of a building (but that story is for another day).

Why do I say all this? Because, a police officer does a lot more than just sit on the side of the road and wait for someone to drive a little too fast. Unless you're a traffic cop. Then, you probably don't do anything else.

I try to be fair as much as I can. I like to walk away feeling like we both got something out of the encounter. We also need to be clear that I'm not just protecting you. I'm protecting all of the other unknown victims who we will never see be saved from that brief interaction with each other.

We all drive safely until we don't. By then, it might be too late and you (people in general) become a statistic.



Fair enough, but I just want to say that this does create some tension. I'll elaborate a little more below.*



I do. I think I might see a different side to the field because I know most of the inner workings and mentality of police officers. I've been pulled over a few times when I was younger and it's definitely not a pleasant feeling being powerless in that moment wondering what is about to come. I also think it's an over reaction to think that a routine traffic stop is going to result in some BS charge or that power-hungry PoPo is going to plant drugs in your car. Just because you hear it on the news once or twice doesn't mean it happens to everyone.



*I wouldn't say that it was meant to make you look guilty. Depending on the situation, sometimes those questions are meant to check your ability to comprehend doing two or three tasks at the same time. Drunk drivers can often only handle one task at a time. So, you ask them for their license and while they are getting it, you ask another question. Usually they will stop what they are doing and answer the question and then just sit there completely forgetting that they were working on pulling their license out of their wallet. A simple few questions like that and it's really obvious.

Field sobriety tests aren't exactly to check if you're drunk. They are a set of attention-dividing tasks to check if you're capable of safely operating a motor vehicle.

Over 10 years ago, I was driving to California and I got stopped by the border patrol somewhere around Yuma, AZ I think. They asked me which country I was from. I wasn't prepared for that question because I went into the checkpoint thinking, "Wow, this is pretty cool." But you have these big, muscular guys towering over your car and when you say, "Hello, how's it going," and their answer is, "Where are you going?" and "Which country are you from?" I stuttered a little bit because I'm obviously from the USA and I speak perfect English. Can't you tell that just from looking at me?

Yes, from my single perspective driving alone in my car across the entire country for the past two days (I think I made it in less than 48 hours). However, they have been standing out there on the Mexico border for the past 3 months, 12 hours a day filtering thousands and thousands of cars trying to find whatever it is they are looking for. So, I stuttered. I felt like a fool. I drove away feeling like I did something wrong. They had a job to do. It worked out okay and life went on.



I doubt this is actually how it happened from the officer's perspective unless you were leaving a known high-crime area at 2:30 in the morning.



Again, this just creates tension. If you have nothing to hide, then just be honest. You are a nice enough person to understand that. Police aren't the enemy. We are people too.

Like I said, I don't want this to become about me. This is just some of what I wanted to touch on. I can't speak for everyone and will not try to. Regardless of your thoughts on police as a whole, I am here with all of you trying to achieve a better life. I hope that in some way we can all continue fighting for the common goal of what this community represents. I am one of you.

I really appreciate your response @InspireHD

I do however think it is a little dangerous to imply if you are innocent, you have nothing to worry about. There are plenty of innocent people in prison, they flowed through the criminal justice system.

My issue is, even though you are a level headed guy there is a good chance we don’t get a cop like you. The fact also remains, NOTHING we say to a cop in an official interaction can help us. Except within the latitude a cop has on deciding to just let someone go on warning. The reason police talk to people is so they incriminate themselves.

Police are the definition of “the enemy” when they are questioning you.

Do you know how fast you were going? Don’t answer that.

Do you know why I pulled you over? Don’t answer that.

Let me be more specific. Your children are for whatever reason being questioned about a serious crime they had nothing to do with, whatever that is, totally hypothetical, what do you tell them? Cooperate and freely talk? or don’t talk?

 

[sparechange]

I just want to leave a polite reminder that there is at least one member of this forum who is a police officer.

Sometimes, it’s comments like these or openly generalized discussions that cause me to be ashamed to admit that.

If anyone has any questions, I will try to answer them.

DO YOU HAVE A QUOTA

every cop I've asked has denied such things........

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[InspireHD]

DO YOU HAVE A QUOTA

every cop I've asked has denied such things........

I can’t change your mind if you don’t believe the answers. I can only speak from my experience and the answer is no. I give many more warnings than I should. Sometimes I feel like a pushover letting some people go with a warning, but at the end of the day, it’s about educating the person, not punishing them.

I work with some guys who don’t write any tickets unless they absolutely have to.

Some agencies might be more strict on their enforcement. For the most part, there is no black and white answer to the job. It’s some kind of weird gray color that makes you wonder if you’re color blind like when the Brooklyn Nets play on their home court.

 

[InspireHD]

Let me be more specific. Your children are for whatever reason being questioned about a serious crime they had nothing to do with, whatever that is, totally hypothetical, what do you tell them? Cooperate and freely talk? or don’t talk?

Serious crime, I would tell them not to talk. That’s why there is a Miranda Warnings/Constitutional Rights. Get a lawyer. It won’t make the problem go away, but you have a right to not incriminate yourself.

The distinction I’m trying to make is being stopped for a turning violation or being arrested for a serious crime are two different things.

I can’t say you should never talk to the police as if they always have an ulterior motive to ruin your day. I don’t believe that but nobody likes getting a citation. All I can say is to just be respectful.

I’m headed to bed now. I have to spend 12 hours sitting in a car tomorrow trying to avoid getting the virus.

Stay safe and stay healthy!

 

[sparechange]

I can’t change your mind if you don’t believe the answers. I can only speak from my experience and the answer is no. I give many more warnings than I should. Sometimes I feel like a pushover letting some people go with a warning, but at the end of the day, it’s about educating the person, not punishing them.

I work with some guys who don’t write any tickets unless they absolutely have to.

Some agencies might be more strict on their enforcement. For the most part, there is no black and white answer to the job. It’s some kind of weird gray color that makes you wonder if you’re color blind like when the Brooklyn Nets play on their home court.

Interesting...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[ChrisV]

I can’t change your mind if you don’t believe the answers. I can only speak from my experience and the answer is no. I give many more warnings than I should. Sometimes I feel like a pushover letting some people go with a warning, but at the end of the day, it’s about educating the person, not punishing them.

I believe that police quotas are illegal now.

 

[ChrisV]

I do however think it is a little dangerous to imply if you are innocent, you have nothing to worry about. There are plenty of innocent people in prison, they flowed through the criminal justice system.

This.

So back in the late 80's the courts started to use DNA evidence to build cases. But they also went back and tested the DNA of people who were already in jail. The result? Hundreds of exonerations, serving an average of 14 years in prison each. Around 1 in 3 confessed to the crime (obviously via coerced confessions.) 69%: Involved eyewitness misidentification.

Spoiler: Stats

Fast facts:

• 1989: The first DNA exoneration took place
• 367 DNA exonerees to date
• 37: States where exonerations have been won
• 14: Average number of years served
• 5,097.5: Total number of years served
• 26.5: Average age at the time of wrongful conviction
• 42.8: Average age at exoneration
• 21 of 367 people served time on death row
• 41 of 367 pled guilty to crimes they did not commit
• 69%: Involved eyewitness misidentification
  • 35% of these misidentification cases involved an in-person lineup
  • 52% involved a misidentification from a photo array
  • 7% involved a misidentification from a mugshot book
  • 15% involved a misidentification from a show-up procedure
  • 5% involved a misidentification from a one-on-one photo procedure
  • 27% involved a misidentification through the use of a composite sketch
  • 11% involved a voice misidentification
  • 2% involved a misidentification through hypnosis
  • 54% involved an in-court misidentification
  • 29% involved a misidentification through some other procedure (e.g., mistakenly “recognizing” someone on the street and reporting them to law enforcement)
  • 79% of the misidentification cases involved multiple procedures
  • 85% of the misidentification cases involved a misidentification by a surviving victim
  • 42% involved a cross-racial misidentification
  • 32% involved multiple misidentifications of the same person by different witnesses
  • 18% involved a failure to identify the exoneree in at least one procedure
• 44%: Involved misapplication of forensic science
• 28%: Involved false confessions
  • 49% of the false confessors were 21 years old or younger at the time of arrest
  • 33% of the false confessors were 18 years old or younger at the time of arrest
  • 10% of the false confessors had mental health or mental capacity issues
• 17%: Involved informants
• 267: DNA exonerees compensated
• 189: DNA exonerations worked on by the Innocence Project
• 162: Actual assailants identified. Those actual perpetrators went on to be convicted of 152 additional violent crimes, including 82 sexual assaults, 35 murders, and 35 other violent crimes while the innocent sat behind bars for their earlier offenses.

DNA Exonerations in the United States (1989 – 2020) - Innocence Project

www.innocenceproject.org

The idea of 'if you're innocent you have nothing to worry about' is a fallacy.