PROGRESS THREAD (James F) Startup #2

[Anon3587x]

Damn James I wish I had your designer skills.
I kill the back-end stuff all day but I am lacking in design.

Any suggested reading or sources I can check out to match your skills?

 

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[James Fake]

77startup - nope, not at all. RoR is def going to only get more popular as it's just simply better. The blog seo thing isn't that much of an issue as SEO isn't the most critical form of traffic for Freelanceful.

bat - design is really, just a lot of back and forth editing. That's really all I do. I make a design, then I take a look at it; I try to figure out what is making it look 'off' or not good, then I change it. Then I repeat the process over and over and over again. A good way to learn to get an eye for good design is find the better looking wordpress templates and figure out what exactly is making it look better than something else (shadows, size of elements, colors, texture, gradients, etc.). Think Vitamin blog is a good blog about design.

Update for Today August 17th
The new splash homepages are up Freelance Web Designer and Web Developers for Hire at Freelanceful.com. It includes a lot more than just the 1 page landing page that was there for the past month. It's very close to the real thing, I just stripped it down, so a lot of the links point towards an 'launching soon, submit email' page.

Still have to work on a few on-page SEO things like: keyword density, page speed, and html/css validation. Will also try to tweak the link structure up just a bit.

 

[MamaD]

Luv the "We're not quite ready yet" page. Great work!

 

[77startup]

Interesting. As I was learning rails I started to wonder if it was worth the trade off of not being able to use a CMS like wordpress. It looks really nice, esp paired with SASS and HAML but I'm having a bit of trouble trying to think of what to use it for that PHP, css, and wordpress wouldn't handle quicker.

All the blogs I read keep saying not to use rails for simple sites, but I thought the whole purpose was to deploy apps quicker? Also would you consider freelanceful a "webapp"?

Btw the site is looking really good I can see this site hitting a "K" of >1.

 

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[mrhahn]

In the end just use whatever language gets you to market the quickest. You can't get caught up in the drama of Language X vs Language Y. They each have their pros and cons, and some tend to get a bad rap (PHP), but in the end it's up to the programmer. You have to be able to use proper programming and account for user growth, security, user experience, etc.

@JamesF: Just visited your site, lookin good so far. It's great you're focusing on the UI for this type of site. I had been posting jobs on other freelancing sites and some are just horrendous. I'm thinking yours can easily make the top 5 if you just make it usable lol.

 

[James Fake]

@MamaD - Thanks!

@77startup

Btw the site is looking really good I can see this site hitting a "K" of <1.

I'm not quite sure what this means?

As to answer your questions: It greatly depends on what you are trying to make. Wordpress, Drupal, etc. are all php based CMS built for mass use for general stuff. You can in a sense call Wordpress a small web app, because it has some functionality to it beyond just basic static webpages.

However, with Wordpress and Drupal, you are quite limited to exactly what that software can do. For example; there is no way (without a huge investment in development time) I can add on a bidding system, payment, discussion, etc. features onto a Wordpress system. It's just way too complex and custom and the way and may not work with existing Wordpress code. This is where Ruby on Rails and PHP frameworks from scratch come into play.

It's faster and easier to start from scratch to create the app when it's complex and very custom, then trying to go into Wordpress and add and integrate features that work with current Wordpress code.

Yes, Freelanceful is definitely a web app, it's actually a fairly big and more complex app than most out there. For example; go to Dashboard Homepage for Buyers | Freelanceful.com and compare would it be faster to make this from scratch or try to get wordpress to somehow do everything this backend part does and still be clean code without unnecessary extras.

There are companies out there that do spend a lot of time into making themes that do more functionality for a wordpress theme. One being Templatic: they have Q&A, hotel booking, daily deals, appointments, etc. themes that work as plugins for wordpress. But you can bet they spent a whole bunch of time creating these plugins.

So.. I guess it comes down to exactly what you are building. Researching and seeing if there's software out there already built. If so, you may be able to use it and add on, if not; you may have to start from scratch. But starting from scratch for a fairly complex, big web app: RoR will usually have faster development time then PHP frameworks.

@mrhahn - Thanks!!!! Yeah, usability IMO is the most important thing about a website/app. Everything has a purpose: color, positioning, size, placement on page, etc. While designing; I always think "okay, if I am the customer and I want to do this, what would I look for first.." I think designing "How things work" goes beyond just design, a combination of design/coding to make functions dead simple to the user..

 

[77startup]

Understanding the key variables in Viral Marketing | For Entrepreneurs

Here's a read up on "K". It's basically the ratio of customer's bringing in customers

 

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[sk24iam]

How did you gain a following on Facebook Fan page before the site is even up and running?

 

[James Fake]

@77startup - thanks.. seems like a pretty cool concept. I am hoping so!

@sk24iam - I put up a Like box on one of my other sites that I own (or use to own rather)

 

[tincho1492]

Hi James,

I've been reading your progress and all I can say is: AMAZING! Design, features, approach...

Thanks for sharing such a useful information. I'm also working on on a web app so I will take some of your tips for the stuff I don't know well. As oposed to you, I'm designing AND developing (using CodeIgniter) so it's taking a bit more time but I'm enjoying it a lot!

BTW, in your Q&A wireframe (Q&A Discussion - Project Title | Freelanceful.com), what do you think about using hover-controls? I think that "Delete" and "Report violation" could add a little noise to the design.

 

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[James Fake]

hey Tincho,
Thanks for your tip! It inspired me to go through the weak'er parts of the site I felt I rushed through in design. Including the part you pointed out; it did look bulky and just out of place from the rest of the clean look of the site. So... I redesigned it (I attached a screenshot).

Again, thanks for the tip. Btw; codeigniter is great! Hope all goes well with your venture..

 

[James Fake]

UPDATE - SEPT. 8, 2011

I don't have too much to update, as I am just waiting on the coder to complete the app.

but I did make quite a redesign to these parts: User profiles, project profiles, and the Q&A discussion. Screenshots for profiles below, and Q&A discussion in the last reply. It looks a lot more modern, clean, web 2.0 than the super basic design beforehand. I felt everything else on the site looked good and then I kind of just got lazy and threw together the profile pages, but now I feel comfortable almost everything on the site was given my 110% effort.

I've also been doing random stuff, like tweaking stuff on the external parts of Freelanceful like the blog, support forum, etc. I added quite a few cool plugins: social share scrollbar, integrated it with MailCheat(Chimp), etc. I also added a few banner and 'call to action' spots in the blog. You can see here: blog.freelanceful.com (the banner on the top right, and banner at the end of the post)

I also started doing a bit of marketing on the blog and will continue to write a few more posts this and next week. I can't really market the main site as hard as I want to just yet because I feel like it'll be more ROI with a live site than just getting email signups..

That's it for now, I think..

Sincerely,
James F.

 

[77startup]

I think your site looks 100 times better than all the other freelance sites. If you capitalize on the reality that a lot of college students don't know about free lancing I honestly believe you will make a killing.

When my new site is done I hope you will look it over because you are an amazing front end developer. You've actually inspired me to leave programming to the "serious coders" and focus on wire frame building/front end design.

 

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[tincho1492]

@James Now it looks better! The overall look is very clean and the color scheme is good too.

Right now I'm in the wireframing stage and testing some development stuff. After that I will start to share my advances here.

The best for Freelanceful!

 

[77startup]

Keep it up JamesF. The battle against the crickets is up next, so don't give in and let it claim you.

 

[James Fake]

October 31 -
Just wanted to shoot a quick update.. still waiting on the coder to wrap it up.

It is 1.5 months behind schedule and probably another 2-3 weeks left unfortunately. Least to say, I am disappointed in the situation. I put the blame on myself though; as I should have done a better job at screening coders to see if they could take on the workload.

 

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[s_sherrell]

Went to your site and I am very impressed with what you are putting together. You may consider making a product of how you set this all up. Including where you made mistakes is very valuable for us all to learn from. Anyways, I think you have a winner on your hands. Keep going!

 

[Anon3587x]

Hey James how are you doing with the SEO rankings and marketing?

Those two things are more important than anything. Especially with a site like yours where your value is only as great as your userbase.

But everything looks great so far! Another thing, I am kind of curious as to why you think the site will take another 2-3 weeks? Is your coder being lazy? From what I can estimate, if someone was to put in good work and focus on any website they were working on it should be completed in only a few days.

 

[Icy]

But everything looks great so far! Another thing, I am kind of curious as to why you think the site will take another 2-3 weeks? Is your coder being lazy? From what I can estimate, if someone was to put in good work and focus on any website they were working on it should be completed in only a few days.

A few days? That's not possible for anything even slightly complicated...

 

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[Anon3587x]

A few days? That's not possible for anything even slightly complicated...

If you re-use all the basic coding scripts from other sites you have made it is quite easy. IE (login, forgot password, register, etc. . . )

I'm curious, what do you consider 'slightly complicated'?

I can't speak for animation and graphics because I have zero experience in that field; but database, information-based websites are all relatively easy to create.

 

[Icy]

If you re-use all the basic coding scripts from other sites you have made it is quite easy. IE (login, forgotpassword, register, etc. . . )

Certainly, there are some things you can just reuse fairly easily.

I'm curious, what do you consider 'slightly complicated'?

I can't speak for animation and graphics because I have zero experience in that field; but database, information slangin' websites are all relatively easy to create.

Hm.. Perhaps slightly complicated wasn't the best way to phrase it, but anything that can be thrown together in a 'few days' is below the threshold of slightly complicated. There are exceptions, there always are, but it's a fair base in my opinion.

It's possible to get something with basic "functioning" in a few days for simple tasks, but anything with a future planned for it needs an actual architecture behind it, and even that'll need to be able to change without much hassle. Things like unit testing, and all the other goodies are required for a site like FreeLanceful, which executed right will need to be able to change core functionality without breaking other parts. This doesn't happen in days.

Functioning, and maintainable are two entirely different beasts. One takes a lot more time.

 

[James Fake]

@s_sherrell - Great idea, will definitely track progress and maybe put it together into a free e-book series or something?

@bateati - SEO rankings are a bit kookoo (spelling?) I ranked for 'freelance web designer' and then it bounced completely off. As far as designing good SEO structuring into the site itself (on-page); it definitely is pretty solid and as the site grows; should grab some good organic traffic. Marketing is going; building some buzz, waiting until I have a finished site to start most of the different campaigns.

I don't think the coder is being lazy; I think he is just over-doing himself, so he's jumping from project to project that he is trying to balance and Freelanceful isn't getting the hours it needs.

@Icy & @bateti - good points. A few parts can be done fairly quickly, but there's a lot of parts that's a bit more complicated than it seems. Mostly where there's relationships and dependancies, so if one part does something; 2 other parts must adjust accordingly and all work together. Unfortunately, I'm at the harder parts (the meat core) of the bidding system stuff now.

 

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[77startup]

I wouldn't worry to much about to much about it james. Your site looks great and will be a serious contender for freelancer if you can just acquire the users. As a user of odesk and freelancer I would def add your site to my list of "talent sources".

 

[snowbank]

Marketing is going; building some buzz

I'd be interested in seeing some links to this.

 

[James Fake]

Hey guys, just letting you all know there's going to be some drama brewing up regarding the current coder I choose for this project. Stay tuned, lol. I'll have some rants that people can learn from.

Ironically; I am trying to build something that prevents exactly the situation I am in now. =/

 

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[James Fake]

So I told the coder either:

a) He finish up the app in 2 weeks

or...

b) I am going to file chargebacks to re-coop my money

He told me that he can't afford chargebacks so he will be finishing up the app within a month (aka 40ish hours of work left). <side eye> We'll see if this happens, I am still doubtful as I don't think he is dedicating the time or taking this project seriously.

With that said; I am giving him until early December and will decide what to do from there. Meanwhile; I am going to take a crack and hack away at making it work myself as I take the next 2 months to learn Ruby on Rails full-time, 8 hours a day. Thread here. So to say; if I can go from a complete beginner and finish up the app in 6-7 weeks compared to his 4-5 months, we're definitely going to have problems.

Because he breached his contract multiple times; an attorney actually advised me that I can do chargebacks and be totally legit with it or even pursue legal action (if really needed)

That's it for now. Sign ups are going strong still, SEO took a dump-dive. I think I pretty much got penalized for some link building and someone from Google was watching my SEO Journey blog series.

- James F.

 

[smmirza]

Way to go man. You are inspiring me. Keep walking (stolen from Johnnie Walker commercials)

 

[BeachBoy]

that might be where the biggest drawback of RoR is biting you...

not many coders, and not many good coders.

in php you have too many coders and it's hard to find the good one. in RoR you have too few coders and it's hard to find one.

 

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[tincho1492]

Don't give up, James! It is difficult to work with unprofessional people in our teams, and you don't know when you are hiring the good ones or not.

The best for you! Keep us updated.

 

[77startup]

I'm glad you're taking a worse case scenario approach into consideration. I'm looking forward to hearing good news.