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Parler Taken Down. Your Thoughts?

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Timmy C

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you follow the wall street playboys?

My $0.02

There are a number of decentralized options out there that are worth looking at. I'm going to do some basic research and start a thread on this.

I agree with @Timmy C in that the future is decentralized. The cat is out of the bag with cryptocurrency entering the mainstream consciousness. It's only a matter of time before the politically disaffected withdraw their consent from the system and start using self hosted / decentralized options to deal with the current slide into fascism.


The wall street playboys are awesome man.

I like their mindset, and they know their stuff.
 
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MattR82

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It is scary... but, I think that Big Tech is completely overplaying its hand through doing this. They are shooting themselves in the foot. And it wasn't just Twitter. It was the whole industry marching in tin-soldier-tandem -- canceling them, one after another.

I have a different take on this process though. Parler could have never paid for this type of global notoriety. Big Tech started with Trump and then went on to the people and businesses around him. It was a classic mean girl's move to bully the new kid on the block, along with his family. I think that the ones who are running these tech companies just don't understand human nature. People are turning on them in droves. Their move against Trump and Parler may spawn their greatest competition... and it may even create their downfall.
I agree, makes me think that Parler may have been wishing for this to happen ;)
 

MattR82

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The last thing I want is other people having power over what I say and do.
While I respect the rights of companies to do what they want..... now it seems corporations can just control what people say.


So, what is everyone doing about it?

Me?

- I refuse to shop at Amazon. Haven't for 10 years. Screw them.

- I stopped using Google last month (DuckDuckGo works fine)

- I am in the process of dumping Gmail (switched to ProtonMail)

- I am moving from WhatsApp (to Signal and Telegram).

- I have never used social media, but, if I did, I would be bailing on Facebook/Twitter as fast as possible.

I am looking deeply into if there is a better company than Apple to keep giving my tech dollars to.
This will be the hardest one for me, but, I'm not impressed by them here.
How are they any better than the others now?



So, my question is, aside from all of us complaining online. What are we, as individuals and business owners, doing to take our money elsewhere?
No Amazon for me.
Been using duck duck go alongside google for some time now, but now it's time to only use DDG
Moved to Signal
Deleted FB and IG, and messenger (deleted not deactivated, FB has reactivated before without my knowledge, you HAVE to delete). Never had Twitter.
I've actually bought a dumb phone for work to try and remove my reliance on my Samsung so much.
I'm not extremely tech savvy but want to look into the Linux thread next.
Hadn't thought of gmail yet actually.

edit: just set up protonmail and emailed my gmail account, which was kind enough to give me a strong phishing warning lol.
 
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WJK

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I agree, makes me think that Parler may have been wishing for this to happen ;)
I don't think they were "wishing" for this -- but, it sure can be a windfall for them. If they play their cards right, they can overtake Twitter and become a big player. It's gonna take a lot of capital to do that. They'll need their own servers and multiple locations in order to handle their risk exposure and traffic patterns. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. What about streaming and other services? They could immediately become a hub for half of the country to launch them.
 
D

Deleted50669

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you follow the wall street playboys?

My $0.02

There are a number of decentralized options out there that are worth looking at. I'm going to do some basic research and start a thread on this.

I agree with @Timmy C in that the future is decentralized. The cat is out of the bag with cryptocurrency entering the mainstream consciousness. It's only a matter of time before the politically disaffected withdraw their consent from the system and start using self hosted / decentralized options to deal with the current slide into fascism.
And this is why I'm learning Solidity.
 

rollerskates

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I think that the ones who are running these tech companies just don't understand human nature.
Yes. I was just thinking about this this morning. Very few people will give up their beliefs because they're told by some Rasputin double that they can't talk about them.
 

WJK

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Yes. I was just thinking about this this morning. Very few people will give up their beliefs because they're told by some Rasputin double that they can't talk about them.
They are going about it all wrong. If they continue to try their hand at content censuring, they are going to shore up the Popularist movement rather than tamping it down. They are creating a vacuum in which they will attract fierce competition and governmental regulations.
 
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Guest-5ty5s4

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this pretty much sums it up.

lots of people I know IRL who previously were “anti-capitalist” are suddenly of the position that “it’s a business man, they can delete whatever speech they want to”

“Make your own”
*makes new app*
*banned from app store*

*makes new social media site*
*banned from hosting*

True colors on full display.

Lots of tyrants. The cat is out of the bag.
 
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csalvato

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I'm really confused why people are so upset about them being taken off of app stores.

It's possible to download an app outside of the app store and install it, even on iPhone. It's not even hard. On Android, you download the apk file and push install. On Apple, the developer provides you with a development build that you download, install and need to manually approve on the device.

Binance did this for years because Apple didn't allow them to have their app on the app store since they weren't a business approved to operate in the US.

I wanted to use it, so I got it from their website, downloaded it, and used it for years.

Also, Parler is a web app. You can use it with feature parity on any device at any time from any browser.

It feels like that point is being massively overblown, to me.

And Amazon is still a private business, and there are several hosting alternatives like Digital Ocean that offer just about the same features (load balancing, bastion hosts, etc.) who will gladly take Parler's money.

It feels like we are overreacting to something that the free market will sort out (assuming we let it operate as a somewhat quasi-free market....but who the hell knows on that point anymore)

EDIT: It looks like Apple started restricting how you can install apps that are not on the app store, and it's much more restrictive now, so they do have a stranglehold on that (though you can make a web app with full feature parity pretty easily, and people who believe strongly enough in Parler's mission would sell their iPhones to get an Android if it was that big of a deal to them)
 
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Guest-5ty5s4

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I'm really confused why people are so upset about them being taken off of app stores.

It's possible to download an app outside of the app store and install it, even on iPhone. It's not even hard. On Android, you download the apk file and push install. On Apple, the developer provides you with a development build that you download, install and need to manually approve on the device.

Binance did this for years because Apple didn't allow them to have their app on the app store since they weren't a business approved to operate in the US.

I wanted to use it, so I got it from their website, downloaded it, and used it for years.

Also, Parler is a web app. You can use it with feature parity on any device at any time from any browser.

It feels like that point is being massively overblown, to me.

And Amazon is still a private business, and there are several hosting alternatives like Digital Ocean that offer just about the same features (load balancing, bastion hosts, etc.) who will gladly take Parler's money.

It feels like we are overreacting to something that the free market will sort out (assuming we let it operate as a somewhat quasi-free market....but who the hell knows on that point anymore)
That’s great info.

The answer to your question is that most people don’t know this.

I didn’t know this.

So, they need to tell them somehow. But how? They are banned from advertising.
 
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j0elsuf

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Lots of tyrants. The cat is out of the bag.
Sad that to people like me who have been pretty much PREACHING Anarcho-Capitalism since before high school only to get attacked as an edgelord for it (which I suppose it kind of is), the cat's done been out of the bag for a very, very, very, very long time.

And now it's come to this.

North Korea is the future and I've known this for nearly a quarter-century.
 

Bekit

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It feels like we are overreacting to something that the free market will sort out (assuming we let it operate as a somewhat quasi-free market....but who the hell knows on that point anymore)

I mean...

It's pretty clear we don't have a free market anymore, right?

If the president of the United States doesn't have free speech, nobody has free speech.

If the president of the United States doesn't get a free trial, what chance do regular people have?

In the current version of the war of ideas, Group A is willing to tolerate and accept that Group B has different ideas. But Group B is not willing to tolerate group A having different ideas.

Group B's ideas aren't persuasive enough to win Group A's allegiance.

So Group B has resorted to violence. That's the only way they can get anyone to "voluntarily" go along with their plan.

Gear up. Being an entrepreneur is about to become a whole lot more difficult than it used to be.
 

csalvato

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So, they need to tell them somehow. But how? They are banned from advertising.
They are banned from advertising?

They just got a shitload of free advertising by being banned by everything! They were on the front page of every news paper and mentioned in every single publication I've read in the past 10 days.

They just need to put instructions on how to use their app on their home page, like every other off-the-app-store app that exists.

I mean...

It's pretty clear we don't have a free market anymore, right?

Even in this crony capitalistic, pseudo-free market, I believe that this will play out pretty fairly and too many people are excessively wound up about this.

All they need to do is get hosting on another provider (there are actually several), and even fragment it across providers (e.g. web servers on digital ocean, database on Azure or Cloudant, etc.).

A service like Parler should really have their own data center, like @MJ DeMarco said above. This was a fatal strategic flaw.

If the president of the United States doesn't have free speech, nobody has free speech.

If the president of the United States doesn't get a free trial, what chance do regular people have?

In the current version of the war of ideas, Group A is willing to tolerate and accept that Group B has different ideas. But Group B is not willing to tolerate group A having different ideas.

Group B's ideas aren't persuasive enough to win Group A's allegiance.

So Group B has resorted to violence. That's the only way they can get anyone to "voluntarily" go along with their plan.

The president does have free speech.

This isn't what a lack of free speech looks like.

A lack of free speech would mean you say something against the regime and you are beaten and incarcerated/killed. Think Thomas More in the cells of the Tower of London.

This is the spirit behind the letter of the 1st amendment.

Being removed from Social Media is not a violation of that letter nor that spirit.

If we time travel back to when the 1st amendment was penned, this would be equivalent to all the major newspapers deciding to not print any news or statements involving the president's quotes, which isn't protected by the amendment.

We aren't even doing that now. The president still has a press room.

And, the president is getting a fair trial. An unfair trial would be if they stormed into his office, and incarcerated or executed him right then and there.

He was impeached, and now the trial will take 6+ months to get to go through a full trial and come to a decision.

IMO both sides are having hyperbolic reactions, and just dividing people further. It's like a fast-escalating fist fight at an alcohol fueled frat party. Ridiculous, but there's no stopping it, and it will likely be very violent.

Gear up. Being an entrepreneur is about to become a whole lot more difficult than it used to be.

At least we can agree on this point :hilarious:
 
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csalvato

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FYI - my understanding of how Apple allows off-app store installs was outdated. I updated the original post above to reflect this.
 
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Guest-5ty5s4

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I know exactly how the President feels...

I've been demanding that CNN and Fox News give me airtime to talk about how horrible each of their networks is, but they refuse to allow me on their networks to insult them! Won't even let me on the nighttime non-news shows!

WTF? Why are they censoring me?!?!? Haven't they read the Constitution?

f*cking Orwellian shit not letting me on Hannity or Tapper...
Such a bad take. Not similar at all, lmao.

1. Fox and CNN are not social media platforms.

2. you were not a democratically elected president. You’re not nearly as important.

Maybe you think you are that important!

Maybe you don’t care about democracy :)

When I read comments like yours, I just think... what an absolute joke.

Maybe someday Jason Scott will be president. But no, not today ;)
 
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csalvato

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Such a bad take. Not similar at all, lmao.

1. Fox and CNN are not social media platforms.

2. you were not a democratically elected president. You’re not nearly as important.

Maybe you think you are that important!

Maybe you don’t care about democracy :)

When I read comments like yours, I just think... what an absolute joke.

Maybe someday Jason Scott will be president. But no, not today ;)
Idk I thought it was spot on
 
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Bekit

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I know exactly how the President feels...

I've been demanding that CNN and Fox News give me airtime to talk about how horrible each of their networks is, but they refuse to allow me on their networks to insult them! Won't even let me on the nighttime non-news shows!

WTF? Why are they censoring me?!?!? Haven't they read the Constitution?

f*cking Orwellian shit not letting me on Hannity or Tapper...
You are of course free to look at it that way.

The point I'm trying to make, though, is that we're at a stage where we're seeing these social media giants flex on (what we used to call) the most powerful man in the world. And if they're getting away with that, just wait for when it's your turn.

Tech companies are at the point where, "I'm big enough to do what I want, and if the government doesn't like it, I'll just laugh in their face. Just try to make me obey the law."

We're increasingly seeing that the way a tech company governs my life is more relevant than the way the US Gov governs my life.

When that happens, we no longer have elected officials reigning over us. We have CEO's.

And I'm not talking about "the boss at my company, where I'm free to quit and work for someone else if I don't like it."

I'm talking about CEO's of a company where I DON'T work dictating what I'm allowed to talk to my sister about, what details I'm allowed to uncover when I'm doing research, and even whether or not I am allowed to earn money or not.

Case in point 1: I don't use Twitter, but the actions of a CEO at Twitter affect me when regular people are not even allowed to learn of the existence of a breaking story because Twitter has forbidden it to be shared.

Case in point 2:

On January 4, my new year's gift from Paypal was a disabled account.
1610923403223.png

No warning. No explanation. Out of the blue.

What in the world? The only thing this account was ever used for was copywriting income. The account was connected to a business checking account based in the US, which was set up and registered properly as an LLC. There was nothing remotely shady or illicit going on with this account. (Good thing I didn't have any money in there, because they're freezing it for 180 days. That's the kind of thing that could bankrupt your business.)

But what do you know - tens of thousands of conservatives also had their Paypal accounts shut down recently for no reason.

Being pegged by Silicon Valley as a conservative is the ONLY explanation that I can think of for why this would have happened to me.

Watch your back, fellow conservatives on FLF, if you also use paypal. Or any platform at this point.

Are we going to start making fun of conservatives and saying, "Well, you should have hidden your money in caves in Somalia?"

Back to the main point, though, that if we have CEO's instead of elected officials reigning over us, the implications of that are tremendous.

In a world like that, what's "legal" and "illegal" is no longer the laws on the books. It's whatever that CEO likes and dislikes at that point.

As soon as we move away from democracy, voting, and choosing our rulers, we're suddenly in a system where if you're in a minority or a group that has fallen out of favor, there is no representation for you.

If you read the Federalist Papers, you'll see how much thought went into creating a system where minority views still get a hearing.

Not anymore.

We thought we were too civilized for witch hunts and book burnings... only to see it happening right in front of our eyes.
 

csalvato

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@Bekit With the highest and utmost respect, it seems like your worldview/mindset here might be a bit myopic or worse.

When we feel these feelings of hopelessness, or that others are in control of our lives more than we are, that's often because we fail to see real and present options in our lives.

For example, you're very concerned about CEOs will be reigning over us, and they have more impact on our lives than even we do. You're worried about CEO's telling you what you can and cannot say.

But this simply isn't the case.

Unless we give Social Media companies the power to incarcerate or kill us, this will never be true.

Social Media is just that. A media. And it is distributed by the internet.

There are many other ways that you can distribute content and media via the internet that are not Twitter, Facebook, etc.

And, unlike dictators, big companies are always toppled when they get too big. It's an inherent issue with company growth (Innovator's Dilemma is a good book on this specific topic)

We are lucky and fortunate that the internet is a protocol that is eternally and inherently decentralized.

We are lucky that E2E encryption powered by OSS makes it possible to message people in a way that we can be sure that no one can ever possibly see (download Signal!)

We are lucky there is a readily available dark web if we really want to stay off the grid. (It's not even hard to access).

The cat is out of the bag. No one can ever stop the flow of information, even if they wanted to.

And with our financial system rapidly moving into cryptocurrency, the same goes for control of your wealth (as in your PayPal example).

Another major source of one's personal frustration comes from jumping to conclusions that we don't know are true. For example, you believe you were censored by PayPal for being a conservative.

You don't know if that's true, just as the husband who is angry at his wife for cheating, when she just got caught up in a traffic jam.

We live in a world where tyranny is approaching being a practical impossibility.

I encourage you to explore this possibility - because it's the truth - and to be grateful for that.

And your observations are all valid. You only lose if you don't act on them (by doing things like moving to Signal for messaging, start using DuckDuckGo, ProtonMail, etc.)
 

Kak

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A monopoly is a temporary condition unless it is a political monopoly.

This big picture problem of "mega tech companies controlling us" will get sorted out by entrepreneurs. They have exposed themselves to disruption and basically half of a population embracing something new is a powerful market force.

I am, however, afraid that the Parler CEO might be too much of a "victim" to grind it out and save his gold mine.

All of that said... Censorship is crap and even though they have the right to make shitty business decisions and alienate half of their market, I don't have to like it. I believe the problem is even deeper though. They are more afraid of the lynch mob left than they are of conservatives.

Here's to an emboldened new class of tech entrepreneur that just found some real relevance.
 
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csalvato

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FWIW, I'm far more concerned about governments restricting us based on whether or not we have been dosed with a rushed C0VlD-19 vaccine than I am concerned about free speech being obliterated by Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg.

It is looking like travel to many countries will be impossible without it.

That's a far more terrifying mode of oppression than a tech company deleting posts (something that's been going on for as long as these services have existed)
 

csalvato

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A monopoly is a temporary condition unless it is a political monopoly.

This big picture problem of "mega tech companies controlling us" will get sorted out by entrepreneurs. They have exposed themselves to disruption and basically half of a population embracing something new is a powerful market force.

I am, however, afraid that the Parler CEO might too much of a "victim" to grind it out and save his gold mine.
:bullseye:
 

WJK

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Hey, Parler is back up and running... just a few minutes ago...
 
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WJK

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Still says “network error” when I open it.

They need to fix their shit.
US News

Parler’s Website Back Online With a Message From Its CEO​



By Jack Phillips

January 17, 2021 Updated: January 17, 2021

biggersmaller
Print




Parler’s website suddenly appeared online on Jan. 17 with a message from its CEO, John Matze, who said, “Hello world, is this thing on?”
 

WJK

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And social media platforms are not entertainment news outlets. If someone is going to pretend that it's fascist to restrict speech thorough one of those private outlets, I see no reason not to extend the same flawed reasoning to the other.




Wait... Your argument is that the president of United States is entitled to more free speech than the rest of Americans simply because he's the president?

Is that really what people on this thread are saying? That a different set of laws should be applied to the president?

Holy crap... People really weren't paying attention during that whole American revolution part of their history classes...
When I started law school, our first legal writing assignment was based on the free speech Supreme Court case (Brandonberg v. Ohio) that sets the standard. It has to do with the KKK and a speech a guy gave on their behalf. That decision and the criteria for inciting violence are pretty specific. I think that a lot of the members of Congress should stop talking while they go back and review that case. Charging someone with inciting violence is a lot harder than simply saying that you don't like his message.
 
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csalvato

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When I started law school, our first legal writing assignment was based on the free speech Supreme Court case (Brandonberg v. Ohio) that sets the standard. It has to do with the KKK and a speech a guy gave on their behalf. That decision and the criteria for inciting violence are pretty specific. I think that a lot of the members of Congress should stop talking while they go back and review that case. Charging someone with inciting violence is a lot harder than simply saying that you don't like his message.

Good luck getting them to read those laws and cases.

Members of Congress speak at the ability of a 15 year old (grade 10), and probably read at that level too
Today’s Congress collectively speaks at a 10.6 grade level, down from 11.5 in 2005


That’s also from 2012, so I’m sure they are even dumber
 
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Guest-5ty5s4

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And social media platforms are not entertainment news outlets. If someone is going to pretend that it's fascist to restrict speech thorough one of those private outlets, I see no reason not to extend the same flawed reasoning to the other.




Wait... Your argument is that the president of United States is entitled to more free speech than the rest of Americans simply because he's the president?

Is that really what people on this thread are saying? That a different set of laws should be applied to the president?

Holy crap... People really weren't paying attention during that whole American revolution part of their history classes...

Dear God... I can’t believe I ordered one of your books. Won’t be doing that again.

‍No, and you should look up “straw man” fallacy.

You know, it is possible to have a stance without wanting to enforce it by law.

Like me saying that this is a very bad move by Twitter and Facebook does not equal (=/=) saying that we should set up a third world dictatorship where the ruler cannot be questioned.

I would expect you to be above that level of fallacious argument, being an author and whatnot.
 
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