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JasonR

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nico

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Correct me if I am wrong, but last time I checked, grains come out of mother nature just as vegetables do.
So do mushrooms and most drugs. Good luck with an "all natural" death cap and opium diet. You are confusing "natural" with "natural for humans to EAT", those are two very different things.

I'm not a 100% buyer of the paleo diet. For one I don't buy the low-carb-high-fat crap, there are plenty of cultures living mostly on rice that didn't know obesity or diabetes until western diets came along. But I do believe the grain part and paleo is a huge HUGE improvement from the standard american diet.
 

CEBenz

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I don't think paleo addresses the real issue of the way food is being produced for North Americans. I strongly believe that genetic modification, pesticides (and I am talking the hardcore ones they use in Mexico), anti-biotics, growth hormones, gluten overdose etc. are the true problem.... let's not even go into the glycemic level of candy these days...

Another thing to consider is the "humans didn't eat grains for until 100 years ago" phrase. Paleo advocates argue that since it is so new to use we don't handle it well and that it's not natural. Correct me if I am wrong, but last time I checked, grains come out of mother nature just as vegetables do. It's not like aliens came to earth and gave us grains.
I see a contradiction here. So gluten overdose is a problem but wheat is ok because it comes from nature?????

Anyway, with that pointed out I feel there's something you've glossed over. Wheat today is not like wheat 75 years ago. Much of it has been genetically modified for the purpose of delivering certain characteristics in bread in the baking industry. One of the the byproducts of that process has been a SIGNIFICANT increase in the gluten content. People who might not otherwise have had gluten issues from wheat 75 years ago, do with current wheat products.
 

TheTruth

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So do mushrooms and most drugs. Good luck with an "all natural" death cap and opium diet. You are confusing "natural" with "natural for humans to EAT", those are two very different things.

I'm not a 100% buyer of the paleo diet. For one I don't buy the low-carb-high-fat crap, there are plenty of cultures living mostly on rice that didn't know obesity or diabetes until western diets came along. But I do believe the grain part and paleo is a huge HUGE improvement from the standard american diet.
I see a contradiction here. So gluten overdose is a problem but wheat is ok because it comes from nature?????

Anyway, with that pointed out I feel there's something you've glossed over. Wheat today is not like wheat 75 years ago. Much of it has been genetically modified for the purpose of delivering certain characteristics in bread in the baking industry. One of the the byproducts of that process has been a SIGNIFICANT increase in the gluten content. People who might not otherwise have had gluten issues from wheat 75 years ago, do with current wheat products.
and I quote (from this thread)
anyway, the study I want to see is how organic grains vs. non-organic grains respond in the body.

I really love the paleo diet for numerous reasons, but at the same time I was just talking to a guy who had a bad case of colitis (actually he joined this forum -username: tepes) and his diet consists of 75-80% grains.

He has cured himself of colitis and inflammation, yet according to paleo this would be 100% impossible.


It's similar to the whole gluten free issue.

Think of it this way, who is the #1 consumer of gluten in the world?

Italians.

Which nation has a very low % of gluten in-tolerances?

Italians.

When I looked into this, I was intrigued as to why that is. When I did some snooping around I found out that in North America, they deposit 6-7X the normal amount of gluten into food.
This should clear up both the concerns you guys had. Never did I state that grains are amazing for you, I was just pointing out how the logic of "evil grains" could easily be associated with a much larger problem (i.e. genetic modification, pesticides, excess gluten pumping, anti-biotics, other chemicals etc.)

@nico - You say there are plenty of cultures that live mostly of rice and that you don't believe all that paleo teaches, yet your main belief is that the grain part of the paleo diet is a huge improvement to the standard american diet. Since rice is a grain, could you clarify your point?

@CEBenz - I already address what you said on the second page of this thread. We have the exact same viewpoint and you would have found that out if you had read past the first page.

I enjoy engaging discussions, however I would appreciate it if a little more effort was put into the statements and arguments made.
 

CEBenz

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and I quote (from this thread)

This should clear up both the concerns you guys had. Never did I state that grains are amazing for you, I was just pointing out how the logic of "evil grains" could easily be associated with a much larger problem (i.e. genetic modification, pesticides, excess gluten pumping, anti-biotics, other chemicals etc.)

@nico - You say there are plenty of cultures that live mostly of rice and that you don't believe all that paleo teaches, yet your main belief is that the grain part of the paleo diet is a huge improvement to the standard american diet. Since rice is a grain, could you clarify your point?

@CEBenz - I already address what you said on the second page of this thread. We have the exact same viewpoint and you would have found that out if you had read past the first page.

I enjoy engaging discussions, however I would appreciate it if a little more effort was put into the statements and arguments made.
My apologies. I'm on tapatalk and didn't see your other post.
 

nico

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@nico - You say there are plenty of cultures that live mostly of rice and that you don't believe all that paleo teaches, yet your main belief is that the grain part of the paleo diet is a huge improvement to the standard american diet. Since rice is a grain, could you clarify your point?
Here's one answer: Do you eat rice? - PaleoHacks.com

As someone with a science background I guess my answer is this: don't look for simple answers, 'cause there are none. Life is complicated and science is a b*tch. Complexity trumps ideology, every time.

Edit: Though I guess that's sort of your point too, so we might not really be in disagreement.
 

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I feel light headed in the morning without food, after I drink Coffee with butter. Does anyone else feel this way?
Are you taking it with the 'real' grass-fed butter? If not, you may feel that way.

Also, you may have issues with digesting the fat. There are some supplements that help your body break out the fat as most people have been eating low-fat diets for so long and the body needs time to re-adjust.




Just this weekend I bought ketone test strips to see if the IF is working.... well, I can tell from the past two days of testing that it does work from that perspective.
 

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its lack of glucose/low blood sugar for your brain. A little complex carbs will help.
 

andviv

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A little complex carbs will help.
Like?

Also, the idea of Intermittent fasting (IF) is to precisely starve the body from glucose to avoid insulin spikes (if I understood correctly what the research says) so adding carbs would go against the intended purpose.
 

Jill

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Question for those on Paleo and IF.

I feel light headed in the morning without food, after I drink Coffee with butter. Does anyone else feel this way?
I oftentimes do, but in a good way. I think it's just the shot of caffeine to your otherwise empty "system", not unlike the rapid state change you get when drinking alcohol on an empty stomach. The "dizziness" quickly subsides and turns to energy - at least for me.
 

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I know that light-headed thing well: I have extremely low blood pressure (80/50dl) usually -to the point it's a concern for my doc. My blood vessels don't constrict when I stand up so as to maintain the blood supply to the head. Not completely sure why, but it has improved with the paleo thing. I think I'm keeping my body more balanced overall & it's helping in small ways not foreseen. Either way, if it's serious enough, see a doctor, otherwise, feed yourself sooner or run other experiments with food/drink & see if anything changes it for the better.
 

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andviv

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Hey Red, how did it go with the ending of the challenge? Metrics? Other than getting hotter, what did you get out of it? Lessons learned?
 

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I feel light headed in the morning without food, after I drink Coffee with butter. Does anyone else feel this way?
Can't recall if I mentioned it here or not but you can try taking a spoonful of almond butter right before bed to try and stabilize your blood sugar throughout the night so you wake up less "shitty".

I was doing this on and off for a while and swore I was waking up easier, less nauseous, and just "better" when I remembered to grab a spoonful before bed. I abandoned it pretty quickly (kept forgetting about it before bed until the habit was lost) but I want to give this another go with some consistency.

(This is one of those Tim Ferris / Dr Oz tips based on "science", I only mention it because I had what appeared to be limited initial success with it)
 

Red

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Hey Red, how did it go with the ending of the challenge? Metrics? Other than getting hotter, what did you get out of it? Lessons learned?
I didn't get to attend the final day -had clients early that morning & it's damn near an hour drive to that particular crossfit gym... Gonna try & do it this week for the physical measurements.

As for the rest of it, I've felt great this past month. I cut out my favorite quinoa & black beans for this little experiment & won't go back to them (never thought I would say that, but felt better without). I'm hyper sensitive in assessing how my body reacts to things & it's been a good month- inflammation almost non-existent (except when I ate something off the list) & overall improved mood & attitude during the day (because it's harder to have a good attitude when you don't feel well from food you've just eaten).

An almost silly side note: I've been plagued with horrible dreams since I was a child. Just previous to & during this challenge, I've linked sugary foods (especially something like an ice cream -like a small Dairy Queen Blizzard after dinner/before bed) to having fueled my bad dreams. The response was so immediate & so horrific, it's pretty damn easy not to eat that any more -no will power required, I'm simply afraid of it now.

Other than that, I've dropped a little bit of weight (I'd say 5-7lbs) and feel leaner over all -always a nice bonus.

I'm looking into buying more paleo cookbooks & trying to refine my choices when dining out, but like anything else, it's a process & one that I plan on improving as I go along.
 

JasonR

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I oftentimes do, but in a good way. I think it's just the shot of caffeine to your otherwise empty "system", not unlike the rapid state change you get when drinking alcohol on an empty stomach. The "dizziness" quickly subsides and turns to energy - at least for me.
Nope - not for me. It's got to be the caffeine and lack of any food (was trying intermittent fasting). Yesterday I was screwed up for 80% of the day because I felt light headed. It sucked...I can't operate like that.
 

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Wow Just Read through the entire thread all I can say is interesting! I'm interested in gaining body mass I'm around 6'2 @ age 20 and weigh around 165. Going to start on Friday as I would have to buy a few stuff Also going to view the recipes (Not really "cooking type" But will learn) and purchase what's needed and start by making the Bulletproof Coffee.

Thanks For All The Great Info Friends!
 

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Has anyone else noticed a difference in the way you process alcohol while eating a strict paleo (and a lower-carb version)? I had a glass of red wine and it felt different that it did while eating a SAD diet.
 

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Has anyone else noticed a difference in the way you process alcohol while eating a strict paleo (and a lower-carb version)?
I've noticed it makes my sleep "shallow" -as in, not as restful, more easily disturbed. I've had very little to drink over the last year, as it seem to have as severe physical & emotional effect on me (this was also exacerbated by the metal toxicity, however). I'll be testing out the wine again later this week...
 

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Question for those on Paleo and IF.

I feel light headed in the morning without food, after I drink Coffee with butter. Does anyone else feel this way?
i would add some protein and maybe a veg. play around with the portions. Could a bit of salmon and chicken, say with some cucumber for example if you're VLC
 

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Vlc?
 

Tetras

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How do you do this cheaply? Is it really better to eat cheap fatty meats like dollar bacon? I don't think it'll be very good as it is grain fed and I don't have enough $$$ for grass fed beef. I did this diet when I was lucky enough to have venison, and it was amazing. Great diet, but very very expensive. Can't afford it.

Now I'm back to a diet of mostly rice, meats and veggies...

Is there a cheap way to do this diet besides hunting? I think it will be cheaper and easier to go vegan and eat stuff like avocados.
 

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andviv

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Cheaply? No clue. I now am spending as much as I was before because I always ate out (hate cooking) but now I am putting the money into quality ingredients instead and cooking very simple stuff.

About the IQ stuff, been only at it for about a month. Still tweaking things. Fat loss is working. Some days I have lots of energy and a few others feel very sleepy around 6pm.

The mental clarity and other stuff I can't really say I've seen such a great difference.
 
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Likwid24

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I'm spending about the same now as well. Maybe less. I buy less useless junk. Only thing that's more expensive is the meat. Everything else is cheaper. It definitely evened out. Eggs are a big part of my diet and their as cheap as you can get. Try buying just paleo food for a month and compare you bills. I bet it's about the same.

As far as the mental clarity, I wish I could answer that. I've been in a mental fog for the last 2 months, but not because of the diet. I have some rough stuff going on. On days when I actually feel ok, I do feel very alert, and when I put my mind to it, I get a lot accomplished.
 

Red

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BP Users: How has this effected your mental state?
I've had a HUGE difference in a general & overall feeling of well-being, hope & overall happiness. My background has included heavy metals poisoning so this also played into the detrimental effects of my overall mental state.

I think it depends on how sensitive you are to certain proteins, sugar & environmental toxins -if you're super sensitive like I am, there's a GREAT difference once you eliminate the aggravating factors. If your system is more robust (like my bf's) then the difference is still there, but not so dramatic in nature.

I, personally, will never go back to old patterns of eating. I've fought so hard these past 4 years to feel good & like myself again. This past year we've finally been connecting the dots with my health & it's made a profound impact on me personally. But that's just my story.
 

andviv

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I, personally, will never go back to old patterns of eating. I've fought so hard these past 4 years to feel good & like myself again. This past year we've finally been connecting the dots with my health & it's made a profound impact on me personally. But that's just my story.
I love hearing this!


Eggs are a big part of my diet and their as cheap as you can get.
I am getting farmer-raised, free range pastured eggs at around $4.50 to $5 a dozen. Way worth it, in my opinion. Better taste, better size. Healthier. 1 meal at a Burger King or Wendy's gets you more than a dozen healthy eggs. Can't beat that.

As far as the mental clarity, I wish I could answer that. I've been in a mental fog for the last 2 months, but not because of the diet. I have some rough stuff going on. On days when I actually feel ok, I do feel very alert, and when I put my mind to it, I get a lot accomplished.
This is my exact situation. Going through personal hell but, for example this morning, I feel extremely full of energy and can conquer the world, as long as I don't focus on what's going on with my personal emotional life.
 

andviv

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So who of the locals or of the early arrivers will get the unsalted kerrygold butter supplies for the B&P event???

I land Thursday night so I hope somebody can get us our fix for Friday morning!!!

(and who brings a blender/magic bullet???)
 

santa

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Very low carb

How do you do this cheaply? Is it really better to eat cheap fatty meats like dollar bacon? I don't think it'll be very good as it is grain fed and I don't have enough $$$ for grass fed beef. I did this diet when I was lucky enough to have venison, and it was amazing. Great diet, but very very expensive. Can't afford it.

Now I'm back to a diet of mostly rice, meats and veggies...

Is there a cheap way to do this diet besides hunting? I think it will be cheaper and easier to go vegan and eat stuff like avocados.
Yes it is possible, though more money gives you more choices.
I have halted and have been reversing serious neurological problems with a "tight" budget with a philosophy that ties in with some of the ideas often discussed in "paleo" eating.
If you google around you'll find many ideas on this.

Remember too, that at it's core many would say all Paleo means is that there are some foods we may not have evolved fully to eat yet. And this varies on individuals, processing methods etc.

Here's a good answer on this from paleohacks, that is a good place to start;



http://paleohacks.com/questions/150601/budget-shopping-uk-help-needed-please/150608#150608 said:
:
You have just got to do the best you can with what you've got.

I get frozen basics range chicken- I don't eat the skin (there's some that say its ok though), but this is what I do- Sainsburys do a 1kg bag for about £4. I'll often eat gelatin with the chicken. I get the Now Foods one (I buy it in bulk online- I don't know how viable this is if you are living in halls, but if you make friends with the staff they probably will keep an eye on it well for you- but stick to stable products) and make say a special hot chocolate. This gives a better profile then just muscle meat. Cheap Kidneys/Liver- some say its ok, but I'm slightly concerned about any negatives of the lesser quality versions of these so am avoiding for now due to not wanting to risk my health situation (but maybe others here may know more and give it the thumbs up).

I use the bones from my basics chicken - I freeze them and then use them to make a bone broth (again contentious but I scoop off the fat from the final product due to the poor quality of the animals). If you like and can tolerate coconut products they are a great way to get cheap high calorie fats and are pretty versatile. They're a mainstay for me.

If I was more mobile, I'd probably try and make friends with a local butchers and get scrap bones of grassfed meat, and use this as broth and also the after fat as a lard too.

I'll eat a lot of tinned fish, as its cheaper. There are some drawbacks, but for now it works well and I can really feel the difference. Because meat is grain fed etc- this is a way to help get a better omega 3-6 ratio. Obviously one has to be careful of mercury etc (though Chris Kresser argues the selenium levels in fish negate this). But I'll tend to stick to the lower levelled mercury fish that are on the cheaper end. If you search online you'll find lists of the ones with the lowest parts per million. You can also use fish oil (another contentious one), but obviously more expense (I've read its best to get high quality fish oils due to possible contaminants. Something like Carlsons- which is about £30 though for 90 servings/days)-which would add £2.50 onto your weekly budget. With high omega 3 fish, you get the omegas and protein for a meal in one. Plus n=1, it seems to be more effective for me then just the oil (again Kresser I think argues reasons for this if I recall correctly). You can pick up cans of sardines petty cheaply, a few of those a week could help the o3 profile- which seems to be a "weakness" of your current diet potentially

On veggies, brocolli, cauliflower etc are good as they generally seem to have less pesticides (though in my opinion the testing on this is sparce so take with a pinch of salt), and rotate others that are reported as having higher levels (like kale) The only organic thing I get is garlic- which I feel makes a significant difference in power,taste and smell.

Eggs - if you can tolerate are great.

I can't do this- but if you live near food shops, its worth working out their local patterns for putting things on sale and habitually going in at these times. One of my friends did this. And would find meats and veggies with sell by date for that day really really cheap

For spices - organic is supposed to be better because they are non-irridated, but I generally get the conventional ones for taste and will upgrade some of them soon though.

Eventually when I'm better I'd budget for more for food, but for now this is working well. I'm doing the best with what I can, but definately plan on spending more in the future.

Does that £20 include toiletries etc too? How much do you spend there. You can save a chunk there too when you find alternatives to more expensive (and full of rubbish) bath products for example and put that to food too potentially

Remember, alot of the "power" of Paleo comes from what you don't eat. So you're getting tons of benefit there alone but if you can spend more I would, but if you can't don't beat yourself up- as its still really powerful!
Also realise it's about becoming intune with your body and what it can tolerate and what not. Paleo at its core is just a philosophy that you play and experiment with. The idea and what is known is in its infancy, but has much potential imo
 
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Likwid24

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So who of the locals or of the early arrivers will get the unsalted kerrygold butter supplies for the B&P event???

I land Thursday night so I hope somebody can get us our fix for Friday morning!!!

(and who brings a blender/magic bullet???)
I was hoping you were!!!!
 
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Likwid24

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I'm actually cutting the bullet proof coffee out of my diet for a month, as well as most fruits (High sugar fruits). I read in the Bulletproof forum, that if our looking to shred, stay off the coffee until you reach your goal. I was thinking of trying out for the FDNY calendar at the end of March. Need to get rid of that last layer of fat. That means an even stricter diet, and adding sprints, preferably hill sprints, to my routine.
 

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