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Let's talk pharmaceuticals!

Ask me anything!

Scot

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Yea my first thought was clinical trials as well. But I saw it listed as investment income so then I thought it could be something else as well.

I can definitely see how the system is a partial implementation. If the doctor manages trials from phase 1, it's a long stretch of time where he made 'returns on investment' when he's not investing money in the first place.


It can be annoying to deal with sunshine act and dollars for Doc's, but it keeps us honest. And the most important part is it keeps the industry ethical.
 
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Thiago Machado

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Charm is key here. Be funny, be charming, flirty. Get the receptionists to like you, there's a chance the info will make it back. Always leave a card with the info, you may get a phone call from the Dr asking to talk.

When all else fails. Bribery. Receptionists love Starbucks or sweets.

Hope this helps!

These quotes reminded me of a movie I saw with my girlfriend, hahaha!
The guy's a pharma sales rep too.




Awesome reply! Thanks!

I was picturing something along those lines (30 to 60 seconds is all you'd get out of a Dr's time)

Another thing that had me thinking was: you mentioned that there is no office, free car, no one watching your every move. Do pharma sales positions usually pay a base salary + commission or strictly commission? I can see it being worth going straight commission since you can be pushing high-ticket items.

I also saw your response to one of the guys here on the thread in which you said: "You'll want to start with companies that do contract work. Essentially a big or small company contacts a contract organization for a set number of reps for a set period of time (1-2 years usually)."

I didn't quite understand this part. Could you elaborate a little more on this?
Companies hire sales organizations for a set period of time and you should network with the people that do the hiring in these companies?

Just wanted to know some general info about the industry.

Your responses here are solid.

Thanks a bunch!

- Thiago
 

neellpatel

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It can be annoying to deal with sunshine act and dollars for Doc's, but it keeps us honest. And the most important part is it keeps the industry ethical.
In the end its ethics and honesty that I think matter the most. But yea this is a step in the right direction. Won't be long before this extends over to the manufacturers as well.
 

Scot

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These quotes reminded me of a movie I saw with my girlfriend, hahaha!
The guy's a pharma sales rep too.




Awesome reply! Thanks!

I was picturing something along those lines (30 to 60 seconds is all you'd get out of a Dr's time)

Another thing that had me thinking was: you mentioned that there is no office, free car, no one watching your every move. Do pharma sales positions usually pay a base salary + commission or strictly commission? I can see it being worth going straight commission since you can be pushing high-ticket items.

I also saw your response to one of the guys here on the thread in which you said: "You'll want to start with companies that do contract work. Essentially a big or small company contacts a contract organization for a set number of reps for a set period of time (1-2 years usually)."

I didn't quite understand this part. Could you elaborate a little more on this?
Companies hire sales organizations for a set period of time and you should network with the people that do the hiring in these companies?

Just wanted to know some general info about the industry.

Your responses here are solid.

Thanks a bunch!

- Thiago


Haha love and other drugs is the only movie we get for our industry.

Time with Dr's is short, so it's best to practice an "elevator pitch". Squeeze as much as you in into 30 seconds.

The contract thing, what I meant is that there are companies like Inventive and Quintiles that hire reps to work for another company for a short period of time. They usually will hire entry level. Those are typically the companies you should look into to get your first pharma job.

And most companies pay salary plus bonus. A lot of companies and going to a hire salary, lower bonus pay model. There are still a few out there that pay high bonus, but like any sales job, it can be feast or famine.

Check glassdoor.com for salary and bonus particulars.
 
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Thiago Machado

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The contract thing, what I meant is that there are companies like Inventive and Quintiles that hire reps to work for another company for a short period of time. They usually will hire entry level. Those are typically the companies you should look into to get your first pharma job.

Looking into this. Thanks!
 

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So its kind of a hard industry to get into. It can be one of those situations of "who you know, not what you know". My break-in was a series of fortunate events. I previously had worked for Verizon selling phones. I was able to develop a pretty good sales record which helped. My wife's classmate at the time, his boyfriend was a rep. She had suggested I look into Pharma and to give him a call. He was a great mentor, still is to this day. He walked me through which companies to apply for, how to make a brag book (ill go into that in a minute) and set me up with a mock interview with his friend. His friend had an opening in her territory and she referred me off to her boss. Her boss was a Marine too, so the cards just kind of fell into place. Once you get into the industry, you're in.

So, for a newbie to get in. My recommendation is to have some foundation of sales. B2B sales are pretty strong to have. You'll want to start with companies that do contract work. Essentially a big or small company contacts a contract organization for a set number of reps for a set period of time (1-2 years usually). You still get all the normal benefits (car, insurance, bonus) without the long term stuff like 401k and stocks. Once you have that under your belt, you can get in with a regular company. You'll want to have a good sales record to build a brag book. Brag book is essentially a portfolio you make of your sales achievements and awards to show off at interviews to prove you have succeeded in the past.

Hiring process usually is about a month. Typical hiring is: Phone interview with recruiter, then face to face with hiring manager (possibly second manager present), then a follow up interview with same or different people, then usually a final interview with a regional director. Sometimes they have you do a ride along with the local rep as well (which is definitely part of the interview, so treat it as such). Then you have a full background check (they will confirm and verify all work references you put down, so DO NOT make up jobs), drug test, credit check. Finally, if all goes through, offer letter.

Thanks for the information, this is an excellent thread. Everything certainly fell into place quite nicely for you. It really does matter who you know, I have some family members in the medical field so hopefully that can help my case. It appears I have a bit of building experience-wise to do if I'd like to be considered for a position. I have recently gotten a new sales job so hopefully once I excel at that I can use that as an addition to build my "brag book", then look for an opportunity in B2B sales.
 

Scot

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Thanks for the information, this is an excellent thread. Everything certainly fell into place quite nicely for you. It really does matter who you know, I have some family members in the medical field so hopefully that can help my case. It appears I have a bit of building experience-wise to do if I'd like to be considered for a position. I have recently gotten a new sales job so hopefully once I excel at that I can use that as an addition to build my "brag book", then look for an opportunity in B2B sales.


Let me warn you. This is NOT a fastlane job. It is slowlane. You can be very comfortable doing this job, but it's volatile. The main reason I am pursuing my fastlane business is because I know this gravy train won't last forever and when it ends, I want something to fall back on.
 
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Angelic

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Let me warn you. This is NOT a fastlane job. It is slowlane. You can be very comfortable doing this job, but it's volatile. The main reason I am pursuing my fastlane business is because I know this gravy train won't last forever and when it ends, I want something to fall back on.
Of course, I wouldn't say any job is fastlane unless you are taking the job to apply the principles or learn information from it that can be used and applied to your fastlane endeavor. I just find the industry as a whole fascinating as I have quite a few family members in the medical field, and would like to gain some knowledge as the skills learned could be beneficial to my own fastlane.
 

Scot

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Of course, I wouldn't say any job is fastlane unless you are taking the job to apply the principles or learn information from it that can be used and applied to your fastlane endeavor. I just find the industry as a whole fascinating as I have quite a few family members in the medical field, and would like to gain some knowledge as the skills learned could be beneficial to my own fastlane.

Yes, you definitely learn a lot about the healthcare industry working in pharma. The only bad thing about this job is the allure of the money. It pays well, it's easy to want to stick around. But the job security doesn't exist. One day you're making 6 figures, the next week your company lays off 30% of your sales force.
 

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Well, you said to ask anything :)

Do you ever do any investing (stock market) based on your knowledge of drugs? I'm asking because I follow this company, which has come out w/a combination drug for pain/blood pressure. They have received a US patent and passed their Phase III with flying colors.

I just cannot figure out if there is a real value to a combo drug - or if its just not that interesting.

The company is http://kitovpharma.com/

I'd be really interested in hearing your opinion.
 
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Scot

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Well, you said to ask anything :)

Do you ever do any investing (stock market) based on your knowledge of drugs? I'm asking because I follow this company, which has come out w/a combination drug for pain/blood pressure. They have received a US patent and passed their Phase III with flying colors.

I just cannot figure out if there is a real value to a combo drug - or if its just not that interesting.

The company is http://kitovpharma.com/

I'd be really interested in hearing your opinion.


I do follow the market a little. My coworkers follow it a lot, I've picket up a lot. Pharma companies are big on stock options/grants.

So this particular one.. I'll be honest.. I don't see the point. They combined Celebrex and an anti hypertensive. I can't find which anti hypertensive though which is a red flag. There are at least 30 out there, 2 or 3 of which, by modern medical standards, are good.

Also, Celebrex has a big ole warning for increasing risk of MI (heart attack). I can't for the life of me figure out why they'd combine a drug for arthritis and blood pressure. Unless they were thinking, "old people... Their joints hurt and they have high BP!"

Odds are, the BP med is a generic too, so they're combining 2 $5 generics to make a $200 branded. I honestly don't see Dr's reaching for this UNLESS their data shows crazy efficacy of it gets an indication unrelated to OA/HT, which from their website looks doubtful.

The only saving grace is... If they manage to sell some of it, some big pharma company will probably swoop in and buy it, at which case your stock will triple.

My non professional advice? It's a gamble. I don't think the company or drug will perform at all. Your only hope is that another company sees some use in them and buys the company, which is a good payoff.
 

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I do follow the market a little. My coworkers follow it a lot, I've picket up a lot. Pharma companies are big on stock options/grants.

So this particular one.. I'll be honest.. I don't see the point. They combined Celebrex and an anti hypertensive. I can't find which anti hypertensive though which is a red flag. There are at least 30 out there, 2 or 3 of which, by modern medical standards, are good.

Also, Celebrex has a big ole warning for increasing risk of MI (heart attack). I can't for the life of me figure out why they'd combine a drug for arthritis and blood pressure. Unless they were thinking, "old people... Their joints hurt and they have high BP!"

Odds are, the BP med is a generic too, so they're combining 2 $5 generics to make a $200 branded. I honestly don't see Dr's reaching for this UNLESS their data shows crazy efficacy of it gets an indication unrelated to OA/HT, which from their website looks doubtful.

The only saving grace is... If they manage to sell some of it, some big pharma company will probably swoop in and buy it, at which case your stock will triple.

My non professional advice? It's a gamble. I don't think the company or drug will perform at all. Your only hope is that another company sees some use in them and buys the company, which is a good payoff.

Thanks, Scot
 

Scot

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Thanks, Scot

When they publish the prescribing information that has all the warnings, side effects, and efficacy, let me know, I'll look it over and see if it has any potential.
 
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dbx286

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I sell prescription pharmaceuticals online. In India you can buy prescriptions drugs over the counter 90% of the time. You setup shop, market it, when someone orders, just buy it locally, pack it in an envelope and ship it.

As of now, I am dealing with *cough* modafinil *cough* as the whole nootropic/smart drug scene is catching on pretty fast.

I enjoy 50-60% markup

How do you see the global pharma companies competing with India in the future? India openly states that it will not honor any drug patents which are prior to 1995. As time moves on and globalization has an even bigger impact, I am sure these pharma companies and the interests will collide.

In a recent move to counter the Indian pharma threat, US made it mandatory for API to be manufactured locally. http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...to-indian-pharma-exporters/article8185521.ece

USA also tried to arm twist India to make it take action against Intellectual Property Right violations in 2014. USA threatened trade embargo or similar strict action. That did not help at all either, and what was worse, it kind of damaged the international relations either. India has a large economy and an even larger market, nobody wants sour relations.
 
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devine

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I sell prescription pharmaceuticals online. In India you can buy prescriptions drugs over the counter 90% of the time. You setup shop, market it, when someone orders, just buy it locally, pack it in an envelope and ship it.

As of now, I am dealing with *cough* modafinil *cough* as the whole nootropic/smart drug scene is catching on pretty fast.

I enjoy 50-60% markup

How do you see the global pharma companies competing with India in the future? India openly states that it will not honor any drug patents which are prior to 1995. As time moves on and globalization has an even bigger impact, I am sure these pharma companies and the interests will collide.

In a recent move to counter the Indian pharma threat, US made it mandatory for API to be manufactured locally. http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...to-indian-pharma-exporters/article8185521.ece

USA also tried to arm twist India to make it take action against Intellectual Property Right violations in 2014. USA threatened trade embargo or similar strict action. That did not help at all either, and what was worse, it kind of damaged the international relations either. India has a large economy and an even larger market, nobody wants sour relations.
In my region you will get through hell if you want to sell Indian pharmacy, so not many bother.
So solution is very simple - all your pharmacy that doesn't comply to local rules will be banned. Our local pharmacy is a lot cheaper and of much higher quality, so banning 90% of Indian pharmacy won't affect the market that much.
 
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dbx286

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In my region you will get through hell if you want to sell Indian pharmacy, so not many bother.
So solution is very simple - all your pharmacy that doesn't comply to local rules will be banned. Our local pharmacy is a lot cheaper and of much higher quality, so banning 90% of Indian pharmacy won't affect the market that much.

I understand your point and where you are coming from. But I would have to correct you on the quality issues. A lot of US/Japanese/International drug companies rely on Indian manufactured API (active pharmaceutical ingredient) to manufacture their end products. If quality was doubtful, don't you think Indian would have a lot less API market share than it has as of this moment?

Also, I do understand how things are right now. That is why I posed a questions about the future, when the impacts of globalisation are even more pronounced and trade and markets are more porous than they are now.
 
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Scot

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Not sure if it answers your questions but see page 13 of a presentation from earlier this year, showing that the FDA will not require "black box" labeling for their product that they are getting approval for:
http://kitovpharma.investorroom.com/events-and-presentations?item=10

So, the anti hypertensive is amlodapine, which isn't usually a preferred treatment. I honestly can't think of many situations where a doctor would use this drug..

I sell prescription pharmaceuticals online. In India you can buy prescriptions drugs over the counter 90% of the time. You setup shop, market it, when someone orders, just buy it locally, pack it in an envelope and ship it.

As of now, I am dealing with *cough* modafinil *cough* as the whole nootropic/smart drug scene is catching on pretty fast.

I enjoy 50-60% markup

How do you see the global pharma companies competing with India in the future? India openly states that it will not honor any drug patents which are prior to 1995. As time moves on and globalization has an even bigger impact, I am sure these pharma companies and the interests will collide.

In a recent move to counter the Indian pharma threat, US made it mandatory for API to be manufactured locally. http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...to-indian-pharma-exporters/article8185521.ece

USA also tried to arm twist India to make it take action against Intellectual Property Right violations in 2014. USA threatened trade embargo or similar strict action. That did not help at all either, and what was worse, it kind of damaged the international relations either. India has a large economy and an even larger market, nobody wants sour relations.


People have had the ability to buy drugs online for years now. To be honest, I don't see this impacting the American drug market. The average person trying to save money on prescription drugs are elderly people, and honestly, they aren't going to equate Indian pharmaceuticals with quality of non-kill you with bad ingredients. I know India isn't China, but old people don't care.

We've had Canadian and Mexican drugs in our system for decades and it hasn't hurt the branded pharma market. I don't deal in generics or international markets. There might be a big market in Europe where socialized medicine programs refuse to pay the premiums American drug companies charge, but that's all speculation.
 

Captain Jack

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So, the anti hypertensive is amlodapine, which isn't usually a preferred treatment. I honestly can't think of many situations where a doctor would use this drug..

Agreed. An Amlodipine/Celebrex combination drug makes no sense. I'm inclined to believe that there is not a clinician associated with this company because no one is going to be prescribing this.
 
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Captain Jack

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I don't know if this post is in the right thread, so mods feel free to move it!

I sell drugs for a living. Street pharmacist. Rolling around in my hooptie with a trunk full of product. Well.. Not quite. I'm a drug rep. I've been selling pharma for about 4 years now and have gained a lot of insight into the pharmaceutical world, healthcare and medicine.

I know starting up a pharma company is a bit beyond the reach of most people here (if you have a few billion in capital laying around, yay), but I'm sure a few of you have thought about getting into the super profitable healthcare space.

While I don't know everything, being in this industry makes you a fly on the wall to a lot of things behind the scenes in the industry. Any questions related to healthcare, the drug industry, insurance, I'll do my best!

Disclaimer, no you can't have what I'm selling. Trust me, you don't want what I got.

I recently went to a wedding with former colleagues and did a ton of networking.

A pharmacist that I met (who is also a veteran) decided to go back to school for his MBA. He got into a Top 10 business school and has his entire GI bill plus yellow ribbon (so he's going for free). This summer, he had an internship with a big pharma consulting company. He's seriously considering creating a pharmaceutical company and is currently networking with people that have influence in this industry.

He's leveraging his health care background to do all of this. To be honest, it's pretty genius and it's something I'm now considering for myself. Have you considered this route?

@Iwokeup I know you said that you want to get out of health care, but there are tons of opportunities on the business side of health care where you can make a ton of money, especially with your credentials. I'm sure there are ways to make a passive business somewhere. Have you ever looked into these kinds of opportunities?
 
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Scot

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I recently went to a wedding with former colleagues and did a ton of networking.

A pharmacist that I met (who is also a veteran) decided to go back to school for his MBA. He got into a Top 10 business school and has his entire GI bill plus yellow ribbon (so he's going for free). This summer, he had an internship with a big pharma consulting company. He's seriously considering creating a pharmaceutical company and is currently networking with people that have influence in this industry.

He's leveraging his health care background to do all of this. To be honest, it's pretty genius and it's something I'm now considering for myself. Have you considered this route?

@Iwokeup I know you said that you want to get out of health care, but there are tons of opportunities on the business side of health care where you can make a ton of money, especially with your credentials. I'm sure there are ways to make a passive business somewhere. Have you ever looked into these kinds of opportunities?


I thought about it briefly. I had a fleeting opportunity to get in on a startup but the opportunity passed. With starting a pharma company, you really can't go anywhere unless you have a molecule in your back pocket. The biggest roadblock you face with pharma is the R&D. It would be extremely difficult to get the funding/investments without a proven track record or significant progress on a new drug.

It's possible, but the cash flow required are things I don't even have the resources for. Wouldn't mind investing in the ground floor some day when I have the capital.
 

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Talking to a decision maker in this industry (a doctor) must be tough. They usually have no time to talk what-so-ever. So I was wondering how you go about that.

In my past life I worked in pharmaceutical sales.

All I did was knock on hundreds of office doors and I spoke with dozens of doctors and surgeons. Appointments, lunch or dinner. Whatever. No offense, but it's actually not "hard". A good attitude, a solid script and persistence is all you need. Any basic script is fine. Refine as you go.
 
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