Is going to college a waste of time?

[DeletedUser394]

Received my rejection letter yesterday.. guess that's what happens when you leave half way through, then fail everything, and then try to get back in two years later.

I still plan to go, as tuition is relatively cheap (compared to most american schools), and I'm not paying for it anyway.

 

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[Kak]

Well I graduated with a business degree last week. Guess what, not a single spark of influence came of it. LMAO. I didnt expect it but some do.

Now im building a business that could have already been built. I guess Ill cold call the alumni list and sell to their companies, get something out of it.

 

[Kak]

Well to follow your thinking, which I do agree with, there are probably much better ways to spend 100K and 4 years to learn how to think critically than going to college.

Opportunity cost of both the money spent on it and time put in is unreal. Especially for people like us.

Lawyers, doctors and engineers are a different story. What else are they going to do? Probably the cream or the slowlane crop there.

 

[sam22]

I think many people seem to miss the point of college. It's not to help you get a job. It's not to make you smart. It's not to help you fit into society.

It's to get you to think critically about culture. It's to get you to become an informed consumer of culture.

Interesting thought - maybe that was the original intention of college, but for most students today, thinking about culture is no longer the reason for going to college. And if thinking about culture is the point of college, that's one expensive lesson.

The #1 product/service colleges sell is the dream of getting a job, which in turn implies a steady income and 401k, etc. blah blah blah.

That's why college is called an "investment" by some. And that's the reason why people drop $100k to $200k (or borrow that much) for an undergrad degree - because they expect an ROI in the form of a job. Except everything is starting to look like the housing crisis. Mark Cuban wrote a great blog post comparing the housing crisis to this education bubble.

 

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[easymoney99]

Even though it was a lot of money that my parents spent. The experience for me was priceless. I made lots of good friends, had lots of great college times. It was not ALL good, breaking up in college is not fun. But I wouldn't trade it for growing up without college. There is plenty of time to get your business going. Not ENDLESS time, but I mean everything really is how you make it. I do admit that I wanted OUT of college so I could focus on getting my internet marketing going. But now that its all over and I graduated, I'm glad I did not run away from it. Part of the reason I didn't want to finish college was fear and I used my business as an excuse, when really it was due to fear. Besides you can always work on your business and college at the same time, I did.

But I realized that I wanted to get the degree, not because I would use it. But because it would be a trophy in my mind, that I defeated an obstacle that was almost defeating me. To each his own. I'm glad I experienced college, I have a large network (people from college) I can now draw upon with people with all kinds of interest and expertises.

On the other side, my uncle Jim never went to college and he went on to make tons of money. And he always told me (when I was telling him how I want out of college) that you don't really need college if you have the ability to learn and perform. And he would push the idea that you don't need college to succeed.

But the college experience is F*cking so much fun sometimes. I F*cked a girl from Beta Phi sorority at SF state when she visited my school, we did it in a music room during school hours. Got a HJ during a biology lecture my freshman year LOLLL, and lots more (not even including all the "studying" with my gf at the time).. Not only that but fun dodge ball tournaments, fraternity-sorority mixers, parties, raves, going to the beach with large groups and getting drunk, camping trips, snowboarding trips, spring break. Night time fraternity pledging adventures is also awesome. If you don't go to college where will you get the opportunity to spend regular time with hot girls who are available and still single *for free*? Just make sure you join a fun, positive organization or group on campus that does stuff you would be interested in.

I vote go to college, and take classes that will add to your entrepreneurial skills (unlike me who majored in biology).

 

[GlobalWealth]

Me thinks we need a "college is/isn't a waste of time" section...

 

[Pete799p]

Great article MJ this is something I have been telling people for years. 99% of them look at me like I am crazy or a dick. I see value in college in the same way I do any investment the problem is the price is too high and the return is too low.

The best way I think to fix education is to shorten it to two years max and turn it more into a tech school scenario. When you go to school to be a carpenter they teach you how to frame a house, not why you should frame a house, how to write a paper about framing a house, how to be ethical about framing a house, and art appreciation.

You should be able to go to school for a year or two to be a Financial analyst were they teach you how to use ANSYS and many of the other popular programs as well as how to do the various calculation. Hell the school could teach students for the first year and then the second year could be working in groups for corporations on the cheap or free. Then graduates come out with 1year experience and knowledge tailored to their specific job.

There is currently a shortage of truelly skilled labor in the system and the corps dont want to spend the money to train the youngster anymore. Instead of going to college to prove you are smart, learn nothing useful, get a job where it is now the companies responsibility to train you do be productive you go to school to learn how to be productive.

More productivity+less debt= better economy

 

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[Kak]

Me thinks we need a "college is/isn't a waste of time" section...

Why? It totally is a waste of time unless you go to babson or want to be a doctor or engineer.

Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[PatrickP]

But the college experience is F*cking so much fun sometimes. I F*cked a girl from Beta Phi sorority at SF state when she visited my school, we did it in a music room during school hours. Got a HJ during a biology lecture my freshman year LOLLL, and lots more (not even including all the "studying" with my gf at the time).. Not only that but fun dodge ball tournaments, fraternity-sorority mixers, parties, raves, going to the beach with large groups and getting drunk, camping trips, snowboarding trips, spring break. Night time fraternity pledging adventures is also awesome. If you don't go to college where will you get the opportunity to spend regular time with hot girls who are available and still single *for free*? Just make sure you join a fun, positive organization or group on campus that does stuff you would be interested in.
\

THIS ^^^^^ is why you go to college. All that going to class, teachers, books uggg that is just a necessary evil so you can do all of the above. I bet 99% of guys who went to college, 40 years later they still think of things like the above lol

 

[GlobalWealth]

Why? It totally is a waste of time unless you go to babson or want to be a doctor or engineer.

I am just saying there seems to be a weekly topic about whether or not college is a waste of time. To be honest this even feels like a waste of time replying in this thread. No offense meant to you, just this topic is the perpetually beaten horse on the forum.

 

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[Icy]

I am just saying there seems to be a weekly topic about whether or not college is a waste of time. To be honest this even feels like a waste of time replying in this thread. No offense meant to you, just this topic is the perpetually beaten horse on the forum.

It just feels like people are searching for a scapegoat on their decision. Really, if people need to ask the question they should just go for a year, and determine for themselves whether it's worth it or not.

 

[MauriceLopes]

Well it depends if you want to be a doctor or a lawyer, you really don't have much of a choice. Overall education is important, but at the end of the day there's no degree for an entrepreneur.

 

[Justin West]

Unless you want to be a Medical Doctor, Lawyer, or some career that actually requires the degree, then yes, college can pretty much be learned in your living room. I have spent several years at community colleges, enrolling to a 4 year college and learning that all those years at community college was for nothing because my credits didn't transfer, thinking that if I just get this degree, then my life will be better. Did I learn anything. YES! I learned a lot. Was what I learned worth over $100K and 6 years of my life. HELL NO!!! Everything I learned, and my degree is in Busines, could have been learned for FREE, in books, online, picking the brains of business professionasl, trial and error. How many Middle Eastern Multi-Billionaires have gone to college? I still have one more semester left, and the only reason that I am finishing is because Damnit!. . . . I need to get something out of this. They better give me a pretty picture frame or print my degree out on 2ply.

 

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[CommonCents]

It's too general of a question. It depends. But my answer overall is college is worth it, but you must be smart and apply yourself. A very small % of people have the ambition, knowledge etc...to skip college. A similar question, is it a waste of time to start a business? For most: Yes. But kinda irrelevant.

But, for the masses, college improves your chances in life. Plenty of stats to back that up. It is unfair to use examples of Gates etc....plus Gates probably had more than college equivalent of knowledge, IQ that most don't have, coupled with more importantly, AMBITION. A Gates is more rare than a lightning strike. Me, I like high probability plays.

Having said that, all colleges aren't the same. Do homework on where you can go to get the best education in your area of interest for the money. I went to Georgia Tech as in state and it was dirt cheap for the education at the time. Out of state tuition for most schools are a major ripoff.

In the ideal world, HS students should be made to work a year or two before entering college. Again, you get out of it what you put into it. You can choose a crap school, take crap fluff courses, party too much(party is freakin great!, don't get me wrong) and you'll come out a waste. Working a year or two, struggling, would give young people a taste of the real world and provide much more motivation to apply themselves in college.

For every 1 self made entrepreneur that didn't go to college I bet you could find 1,000 successful entrepreneurs that went to college and worked in corporate world for a few years and branched off into their own gig in their industry.

Budding entrepreneurs should learn sales, marketing, accounting, and business law. There are even entrepreneur focused programs now, that I didnt have back then. Some building blocks you will use for the rest of your life. You can argue that you can learn much of this free online etc... Most people just don't have the discipline at that age and need more of a structured program. Nothing wrong with that.

College isn't for everyone. I think vocational schools will make a comeback as well. They have been tarnished as low grade. Many people just arent cut out for college but were pressured into going, instead of vocational school to learn a trade. ie. People often laugh at plumbers, but they can make major bank and get the last laugh when making bank deposits after learning the trade, getting a few years experience working for others, then going out on their own. RotoRooter is major fast lane.

There is a general feeling among many entrepreneur forums/discussions that it is cool or needed to be a one person renegade to succeed. NOTHING could be further from the truth. A great network and connections is a huge advantage to success. Again, I like high probability quadrants.

EX. how many hedge fund billionaires/hundred millionaires started one out of high school? out of college? probably zero. Most got their undergrad in ivy league, MBA or PHD then WORKED for others before branching out. Overall, ask any successful entrepreneur and you'll find the vast majority have a college education and have worked in the world for years.

I think peoples' ideas of entrepreneurs being solo disruptive renegades are skewed by the media, because often those types are chronicled in the media. You don't read many stories about the Millionaires Next Door types who learned a trade and branched out or went to college, worked in industry, then branched out etc....

The idea is look at your area of interest and study the best path to success. What tools do you need? What is the best way to acquire them? Re-inventing the wheel by yourself is very very difficult.

There is also a misnomer that entrepreneurs love taking big risks(more like failed entrepreneurs). That is false. Successful entrepreneurs do everything they can to MINIMIZE risk. A proper college education can help tremendously. Obviously there are always exceptions, but I kinda like taking the path of least resistance and high probability. That's gonna be different for each person and each industry.

 

[Victor Santiago]

It depends.

You can meet new people who could help you in your entrepreneur career, or learn new things that can be useful...

 

[LamboMP]

Not a waste of time at all. Most people aren't capable of being entrepreneurs. It takes a certain person, almost of an obsessive nature, to innovate and bring value to the world.

 

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[ikben-jantje]

College is not a waste of time it depends on where lies your passion?
if you like to study and get a job from 9-5 college is the way to it.
if you don't want to work for a boss than college is a waste of time,
it all depends on yourself

 

[bophisto]

College is not a waste of time it depends on where lies your passion?
if you like to study and get a job from 9-5 college is the way to it.
if you don't want to work for a boss than college is a waste of time,
it all depends on yourself

It seems that I have been reading a ton of stuff recently about college/higher education being a waste of time. Perhaps people have only been thinking about this because of the recession and it's hard for even college grads to find a job. The reason for this is simple supply and demand..the more people with college degrees the lower the value. People with a BA are getting to be a dime a dozen. That said it's still going to give you a leg up versus someone with a high school diploma.

I'd say if you really do have a business that is taking off and making money or you have some amazing opportunity then you don't really need to go to college. Keep in mind many of the entrepreneurs that are famous for dropping out of college were actually make making substantial money while they were in college.

Despite all the talk of college not being important. Those success stories of people that never went or dropped out of college are the rare ones the outliers.

I am willing to bet that the vast majority of entrepreneurs/CEOs and high $$$ earners HAVE at least a BA degree.

Of course the question is whether or not they would be as successful without having been to college.

If you look at many entrepreneurs or successful people they were first working somewhere were they did require a college degree. Sure there are those that worked their way up from the mailroom..but again those are VERY rare instances.

 

[campbellronald7]

I think that college prepares the individual in many other ways other than educationally. You learn so much about who you are as a person that I feel its impossible to say college is a waste of time. I went to a Boston business school for 4 years and can say that at 35, they are still the best 4 years of my life!

 

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[Arlec]

I'm surprised so many posts on this forum are anti-college. From a knowledge aspect, college could be better, but as another member pointed out, "you get what you put in." If you want to make sure the money is worth it (like I did), get involved, have a voice and develop skills needed to further you in the real world which honestly in my opinion is priceless. There will always be a counter to anything said, so I expect many from this viewpoint.

There will come a time, I am there right now having just graduated college, where I am more than ready to continue learning and start developing a business of my own. I am not burnt out, I am recharged and ready to go.

College and the 2-4 years spent is a time to develop YOURSELVES, learn things about yourselves that you might not learn at this time because of the situations and people you come into contact with. STUDY ABROAD (both overseas and the women,), joint groups that you would not normally join, party and become friends with as many people as you can.

Please do not listen whole-heartedly to all of these anti-college responses. It truly is a memorably experience, and not something to miss out on just because some say it's a waste of time and money. I can vouch for the majority that college is a great and rewarding four years. If I had not gone, I would not be in this forum, wanting to be in the fastlane. By the end it gave me a vision of who and what I want to become in this lifetime.

 

[cilaes]

Of course this forum is biased, but they also point out the main points. Networking and Marketing! That high school diploma, you definitely want. A college degree is something that raises your credibility. Throw some experience in the mix and you're unstoppable. I was a horrible high school student, and hated it. I was popular, didn't give a shit, and thought I already knew everything. Now, I wish I could go back; it's the best time of your life. I did an enlistment in the military, so now not only is my school paid for, but they pay me cash monthly to go full time. If it weren't for that, however, there's no way I'd be able to justify the time and money for school.

Just my $0.02 --

 

[Skys]

When I graduated high school I was 17. I went to college. I dropped out. I worked some years. I decided to go back. Why? Because everybody did it and the people that kept working earned a terrible paycheck.
I hated school and I hated to get payed badly too. For me, the only way to earn more money was going too school. Thats how I viewed life. I had no books like the fastlane book in my reach. No people that where succesful entrepreneurs and the people that where (relative) super succesful in my inviroment told me to stay in school.

It was a bad decision. I wasted lots of time doing something I absolutely hated. I almost done but, total waste of time. The things I learned that I find important, I learned in life, not in class. If I could do it over, I would not have entered college. I would go and work.

 

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[moneypennysays]

I vote stay in school - I got a business degree that served me well for many years in a regular job. There's the social aspect as well to consider. Yes it's expensive but in the long run I believe it's worth it.

 

[Mike39]

I vote stay in school - I got a business degree that served me well for many years in a regular job. There's the social aspect as well to consider. Yes it's expensive but in the long run I believe it's worth it.

So a business degree that helped you become a forum spammer? Wow, I want to be just like you when I grow up. No value added to the forum, boosting keywords, and linking to his site with 8 posts, hes annoying and a pr!ck, ANYONE?

Edit: I see MJ had a talk with you, still your post has absolutely no value to your post whatsoever, no thought besides 2 seconds of typing, don't even post on any of my threads moneyhasnopennies

 

[theDarkness]

I think many people seem to miss the point of college. It's not to help you get a job. It's not to make you smart. It's not to help you fit into society.

It's to get you to think critically about culture. It's to get you to become an informed consumer of culture.

On this forum, which is biased toward making money, the standard answer is "college is a waste of time; it won't help you make money." In this respect, yes, college is a waste of money.

1. Find your goal in life
2. Plan out your path to achieve that goal

If college is on that path, it's not a waste of time.

There are no rules in life.

I agree. I think though it's hard to think about college this way when you really can't afford it. I think of it like the "can you afford it" section of MJ's book. If paying for college means you're going to constantly worrying about that 100K debt hanging over your head, then you can't afford it and the default setting should be that you SHOULD NOT go to college, because just like the slowlaner who finances a bunch of fancy crap but never gets to really enjoy it because he's swamped at the office, your college experience is going to be tainted by that debt. If you have really compelling reason to go anyway (like one of the technical tracks where degrees are a must), then great. But it shouldn't be the default setting.

I won a scholarship that covered all expenses and I was able to study English and was basically able to turn it into four free years of apprenticeship. You can get in a lot of work in four years! It was great, and I had several great mentors there that helped me radically improve and refine my work habits and process, and a lot of those skills I find myself using every single day. I wouldn't have the courage to do crap if it weren't for what I learned from my main advisor.



But many of my friends had way different experiences, and mainly because those monstrous debt numbers meant they couldn't go through any class without constantly thinking "how does this help me land a job, how does this help me land a job." My advisor would be there in class dropkicking them in the face with all these solid-gold "Fastlane"-like truths, and it just bounced off them like rubber. Some would mention not caring about anything but a job and he'd be like, really? I'm sitting here trying to get you to take control of your goddam life and get 100x more value and enjoyment than you ever will doing what you're doing right now, and you're worried about some crappy job three years from now? I think you've gotta be able to unclench to get real value out of college. And you've got to put in the work. I see a lot of people I knew being like "lol 4 years of college and didn't learn a damned thing worth learning," and that only makes me think they didn't really know why they were there, or they didn't want to put in the work to make their college stay work for them. The uni can't strap you to chair and make you seek out high-value activities. If its a decent college then you'll be surrounded with all kinds of brilliant people, and if you can't find one person there that worth learning from, then you probably didn't look very hard. It's a resource-rich environment; you can find something worth your time and energy.


imo to enjoy college - a) be able to afford it or have a good reason for going anyway b) know what you want from it c) put in the work to extract that value from it d) seek out a mentor who will demand your A-game e) don't think anything you do in college entitles you to anything outside of it f) make sure you're mature enough and mentally fit enough to handle it.

I met all those except the last one - had several undiagnosed mental disorders going in, and my stay was interrupted by a somewhat lengthy hospitalization. And as much as I got out of college, I think I would have gotten that much more out of it had I taken care of those issues beforehand. Much of the time I was working at maybe 1/3rd of capacity just because so much time was devoted to dealing with my own crap.

If I ever have kids that want to go I'll definitely encourage it, but will exhort them to fully consider all the options first. Going in with no plan and no idea of how ready you are rapidly turns it into a sidewalk thing - it might work for you, but the odds are against you, and it'd only work because you lucked into the right situations.

 

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[endsurfs]

Survey after survey still indicates the higher the degree, the higher the lifetime earnings. If you look at the bureau of labor stats:
Employment status of the civilian noninstitutional population 25 years and over by educational attainment, sex, race, and Hispanic or Latino ethnicity --- the higher the degree, the lower the unemployment rate. Of course, those stats won't help people who a currently unemployed.

The average salary of entrepreneurs is 4x the median income in the US:
Entrepreneur Salaries | Simply Hired

Median income: U.S. Median Annual Wage Falls To $26,364 As Pessimism Reaches 10-Year High [CORRECTION].

 

[splok]

Survey after survey still indicates the higher the degree, the higher the lifetime earnings.

The problem is that this focuses on correlation and averages. On average, people who get a PhD are people who have more of the qualities required for success (motivation, goal-orientation, persistence etc.) than people who drop out of high school. Also, on average, more affluent families will have better educated children.

The problem with average is that none of us are actually average though. Imagine someone who could afford and successfully complete some level of higher education (and believes that he can). Now imagine that this person considers his options and makes an educated decision that going to college will be less beneficial than whatever he'll do instead.

Then imagine someone who doesn't go to college for the "average" reasons ("cant afford it, too hard, etc.")

Even though they have the same level of education, do you think that these two people have the same earning potential? Do you think that having no degree will affect both of these people in the same way?

 

[Runum]

8 Ways Business School Can Be An Incubator For Your Startup

Are you ready to drop $100,000?

I started business school in the fall of 2010. When I applied, I had no intention of starting a company. I was attending to help grow my family’s business. However, your path can change. Mine did.

In March of 2011, I began work on ZipFit.me. I was part way through the business school program and tried to get the most I could out of it. Here is how Chicago Booth helped ZipFit.me:

8 Ways Business School Can Be An Incubator For Your Startup - Forbes

It's not a black/white decision. Here are some ways that college may be of benefit.

 

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[Knowledge Kick]

Are you ready to drop $100,000?

Going somewhere like Booth (Chicago), HBS (Harvard) or Wharton (Penn) will actually cost about $250,000 in the end. Opportunity cost is a huge thing to take into consideration.

 

[MikeMillionaire]

Waste of time? Maybe
Waste of money? In most cases....

I actually have a twin brother and my parents are worried right now...

they just calculated debt to be $100k by the time he's out!

I'm taking a gap year