Is going to college a waste of time?

[Ravens_Shadow]

I personally dropped out this past summer in my 3rd semester and it was a total waste of time for me. At my community college, there wasn't much networking to be done, and I could tell all the professors hated their day jobs (what they taught), and then when they taught at night they were often monotone and and assigned pages upon pages of useless busy work.

 

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[Tom.V]

College is not a waste of time, people will always find brighter future if you have a degree..

Not to go against my original post, but really your statement is just a bit too broad. I can spout off 20 names of people I know of that went to college, got degrees, and are making currently making around minimum wage. That's not very bright.
Let me google that for you

 

[1PercentStreet]

College is not a waste of time, people will always find brighter future if you have a degree..

Local bar around here that I was at a few nights ago:
- All in 30's & 40's
- All have Masters or better
- All working in a bar and don't expect to do much more then that.


Your statement makes 100% sense.
Always is too bold of a word. You get what you give/take from it.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

College is not a waste of time, people will always find brighter future if you have a degree..

You make a compelling argument impervious to refute. I've changed my mind. Everyone needs to go to college.





NOTE: I've deleted all of john20's posts as they were all just a bunch of nonsense, surely a prelude to forthcoming link/signature spam.

 

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[stefan]

I'm currently a student and while I can say that college definitely hasn't been a waste, the money could have been invested much more wisely. If I had used $7,500 per semester solely towards entrepreneurship (instead of on tuition) I'd probably be a lot further ahead. However I didn't get 100% serious about entrepreneurship until I met a few passionate entrepreneurship majors. Now I intern within my university's entrepreneurship department and it's a somewhat competitive program.

My point is that sometimes college can take you to strange places. I don't know if I would be pursuing entrepreneurship without having enrolled three years ago.

 

[dknise]

I'm currently a student and while I can say that college definitely hasn't been a waste, the money could have been invested much more wisely. If I had used $7,500 per semester solely towards entrepreneurship (instead of on tuition) I'd probably be a lot further ahead. However I didn't get 100% serious about entrepreneurship until I met a few passionate entrepreneurship majors. Now I intern within my university's entrepreneurship department and it's a somewhat competitive program.

My point is that sometimes college can take you to strange places. I don't know if I would be pursuing entrepreneurship without having enrolled three years ago.

Be careful and research who you're interning with.

This is the "multibillion dollar industry, bio-tech research company" the head of our University of Washington's Center for Entrepreneurship "founded." The about page use to list him as an employee, but now lists him as a co-founder.
Biotech Stock Research - Independent research, plain English

It looks remarkably similar to a penny stock newsletter I ran when I was 19. :smilielol:

 

[socaldude]

I graduated last may with a degree in entrepreneurship and finance and I have to say it was a total waste of time and money. I could have figured out all of this shit on my own with a simple google search or a $15 book. Instead I paid $200 for a textbook and thousands for some teacher to regurgitate information to my face. I was lucky and graduated debt free but the majority are not so lucky.

You graduate with $40,000-$100,000 in debt and now you have to get a job to start paying those first tuition payments and then before you know it slowlane entrapment ensues. Not to mention that you will most likely be a Starbucks barista and barely keep up with your mortgage payment like tuition payments. Now that you are in debt you say "F*ck it" and you finance a car and buy a home and start a family and by the time you know it your entrepreneurial dreams are just that; a dream.

Yeah college has its benefits: friends, networking, partying etc. But all of this shit is NOT exclusive to college. You can do all of this shit OUTSIDE of college as well.

"College teaches you how to think!" Bullshit, you teach yourself how think by participating in reality and using your brain, you don't need anybody to show you how to use your brain especially a classroom. go buy a $10 book on amazon on critical thinking and read it in a weekend.

Buy TMF for $10, a critical thinking book for $10, an accounting, finance and marketing book for $10 each and BAM theres a business degree for $50. I'm DEAD serious.

 

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[Ravens_Shadow]

Socal is so correct. You pay thousands for instruction and books, when you can learn it in less than a quarter of the time and tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than just buying $50 worth of books by respectable authors.

 

[FastLearner]

It blows my mind how many people think "college guarantees success", it guarantees you nothing but a spot with the rest of these SHEEP.

 

[phoenix17]

You haven't been in the real world yet have you? :smilielol:

Bit of a rude assumption. Not everyone finishes highschool and gets job straight away, and even if they did it wouldn't be a very decent one. I don't live with my parents, I work on almost full-time on par with my study load.

Everyone is talking about success, but neglects the fact that success is up to the individual. Maybe university is useless to everyone on this forum, but to the other 90% its certainly not. It's sheer arrogance to think what they teach is complete bullshit. It's almost topped by the Ivy-league vs non-Ivy league argument.

 

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[DeletedUser12]

Student loans have done a grave disservice, by making people believe that for the rest of their lives money will come this easy. For four years you don't really have to worry about rent or eating -- life is pretty good.

Then they enter the real world and have no real survival skills. They don't understand how to make money, because for four years (or more) they have only been spending money. Now on top of having to meet the basic survival skills, they have this huge student loan payment due every month.

The debt you create in your late teens / early 20's can really weigh you down the rest of your life. I know a lot of people whose student loan payments are equal or more than their rent / mortgage.

 

[Yankee427]

College is ok if you come out of high school with no direction, and can do it on scholarship or grants, which most people unfortunately cannot.

My friend went to college with me and he had one job out of college. It was for a software company. He figured out what he did well there and now is working to build a business on his own as a freelance software project manager and traveling the country building his business up.

The key to college being ok is realizing the student debt is massive, paying it off as quickly as possible if you have any and using college to leverage networks to build a business after you leave the corporate world as an employee. Most people unfortunately seem to network from college just to get another job.

I went to college and I don't regret it but the whole system is definitely badly broken and all my friends discussed that a lot while we were there.

 

[stefan]

Be careful and research who you're interning with.

This is the "multibillion dollar industry, bio-tech research company" the head of our University of Washington's Center for Entrepreneurship "founded." The about page use to list him as an employee, but now lists him as a co-founder.
Biotech Stock Research - Independent research, plain English

It looks remarkably similar to a penny stock newsletter I ran when I was 19. :smilielol:

That page definitely looks suspect. I would feel pretty questionable about your school's "entrepreneurship center." I feel confident in mine as they've placed me at our school's App Center so I'm directly surrounded by coding and heavy market research in the tech field. I requested to work within the most fastlane area that I possibly could thanks to MJ for opening my eyes.

However I still agree with the consensus of this thread that college is usually a poor investment. But if you're in school, there are a few possible ways to beat the odds. Plus having direct access to business competitions is nice for some people. School CAN make it easy for some to easily connect with fastlaners. Just don't pay $100k for four years of it.

 

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[socaldude]

College is ok if you come out of high school with no direction

If I came onto this forum and offered a $50,000 seminar for a bunch of beginner-intermediate business courses many on this forum would rightly call me out and call it a "rip off" or "thats outrageous!" or "Dude, all of that information is available for free on wikipedia!'. And yet somehow its reasonable and totally acceptable and "Normal" to do just this instead at an "accredited professional higher education institution" AKA College?

All of the knowledge college offers is not unique, special, proprietary or exclusive. Its nothing you can't find at a Barnes and Noble bookshelf or Online. Anybody with an appetite for knowledge and a good work ethic should skip out on college.

Admit it, college is a lie and a scam. Deep down inside we all know the marginal benefit is not there. Our Economic structure has changed. This is the information age. Knowledge is plentiful and freely available.

Sorry if I sound offensive but its just beyond me how anybody in their right mind could justify going into crippling debt to obtain free and easily available knowledge and make $8 an hour out of college.

All statistics and arguments for college have been proven to be wrong and misleading. You can't compare apples and oranges and then say all oranges are apples. You can't say "You see I told you so!, almost all millionaires have college degrees!" of course they do because if you are hard working and have a voracious appetite for knowledge then you are most likely to get accepted into college and attend it. Was it really necessary? I say no.

Admit it, a college degree is garbage, your 401K is garbage, your mutual fund will lose 50% of its value.

All pro college arguments are geared towards a system that is outdated and broken and the assumption that human beings can't carry their own weight and be resourceful, independent and critical thinking beings without drinking the college kool aid.

 

[Tony I]

Dude, all of that information is available for free on wikipedia!'. And yet somehow its reasonable and totally acceptable and "Normal" to do just this instead at an "accredited professional higher education institution" AKA College?

I agree with you. I think the fact is people want the degree because they feel it is something for them to "fall back on."

Some universities do a better job than others in finding students jobs. My school in particular recruits hundreds of companies for on campus job fairs.

That being said...I don''t see the value for entrepreneurs in going to college. You can learn so much more specialized information on your own.

If you want to be a doctor fine, but a "business degree" is just a ticket to mediocrity.

 

[Yankee427]

If I came onto this forum and offered a $50,000 seminar for a bunch of beginner-intermediate business courses many on this forum would rightly call me out and call it a "rip off" or "thats outrageous!" or "Dude, all of that information is available for free on wikipedia!'. And yet somehow its reasonable and totally acceptable and "Normal" to do just this instead at an "accredited professional higher education institution" AKA College?

You largely misquoted me here, as I said it is OK if you get it without having to pay much for it. If it forces you to go into debt then it is no good. I also see you graduated with a degree in entrepreneurism, which I could see that you can't actually learn that well in college atmosphere. I think if you get anything, it has to be technical as a degree. I have people coming to me with electrical engineering ideas quite frequently since thats the degree I have. I hope one day I have a great idea and can invent some electrical device that the world needs and that can be my fast lane route to success.

College forced me to realize the life after college sucks and I wish maybe I went to a cheaper school or didn't have the boatload of debt here, but I'm not going to say it was all negative, as I have become friends with many smart people, which eventually we will probably go into business together. College forced me to learn a lot about myself and whats available. I realized while there that the college world didn't make sense, and was up many nights until about 2-3AM trying to figure out ways to source products to sell on ebay.

I created many contacts from college that I will be able to use to build a successful business which I would not have found otherwise. I have a friend that has a software project management company that I will be using his expertise shortly to use some offshore coders from him that I know are reliable to build software that I am looking to create. I would never have thought to go into this field, or even found this forum most likely if it wasn't for college.

I really had no direction from outside high school, so I would never have gone the entrepreneur route, and probably would be working as an HVAC installer which is far from fastlane if it wasn't for college. I probably would not have the drive to build anything myself if it was straight out of high school. I was fairly naive at the time I graduated high school and had no direction.

 

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[FastLearner]

College forced me to realize the life after college sucks

I don't even think I want to imagine what you thought life would be like

 

[DeletedUser394]

Don't know about college, but this thread has definitely become a waste of time.

[video=youtube;qYx7YG0RsFY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYx7YG0RsFY[/video]

PS: I dropped out today just after noon.

 

[Yankee427]

I don't even think I want to imagine what you thought life would be like

Yeah, I'm not sure. I was more referring to getting forced into a tunnel by achieving a certain degree at college. Now I'm forcing myself out of this tunnel.

 

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[FastLearner]

PS: I dropped out today just after noon.

Did you really or are you being sarcastic? Been thinking about dropping out lately too.. Maybe next semester.

 

[FastLearner]

Yeah, I'm not sure. I was more referring to getting forced into a tunnel by achieving a certain degree at college. Now I'm forcing myself out of this tunnel.

College sucks, doesn't it? Lol

 

[DeletedUser394]

Did you really or are you being sarcastic? Been thinking about dropping out lately too.. Maybe next semester.

I really did, at least for the time being. Using this year to travel the world and work on my fastlane.

Quit my job too.

 

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[FastLearner]

I really did, at least for the time being. Using this year to travel the world and work on my fastlane.

Quit my job too.

Whoa! That's gnarly! Take pictures, dude! Will you have a photoblog or an Instagram one could follow these adventures?

 

[DeletedUser394]

That's a good idea! Thanks.

 

[FastLearner]

That's a good idea! Thanks.

Anytime, dude.

 

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[RogueInnovation]

Sounds like nothing but sour grapes from someone who needs to perniciously defend his ego after wasting 4 years in college and thousands of dollars only to receive a worthless piece of paper.

His argument is based upon the results (or lack of results) of the Thiel foundation. Considering the source (PBS) I would conclude that this is nothing but a state-sponsored propaganda hit piece making an weak argument in favor of an outdated and overpriced institution that will do anything to preserve it's monopoly. Frankly put, anyone with discipline no longer needs to spend $100K and 4 years on college and those that do become complicit to their own economic slavery.

In return, "the state" is guaranteed a continual influx of corporate slaves, milled and machined from the great institution we call college. The poor saps that believe the lie get shackled to a lifetime of debt that can't be bankrupted away-- meanwhile the state is ensured a lifetime of perpetual tax dollars by virtue of your economic slavery to the system by which you willing participated within. All for what? An illusion of a "safe secure" job at some corporation? It's a freaking fantasy and people are waking up to it.

Just something to think about before you take on the cost and the time of college.

I agree with MJ here, I didn't go to college, but I'm just fine as an entrepenuer now (I mean I make enough money to live comfortably in a great place and travel where ever I want).

The true story is that it took me ten years to figure out how RELEVANT entrepenuerialism is. I tried all the stuff you shouldn't do that MJ wrote about in his book (started laughing at his examples because ten years ago I did them word for word), starting up things that nobody wanted, and that lasted about ten years until I was like "ok, I have to sort this out". Entrepenuerialism seems to be many of the guys that made that decision to sort it out properly.

You don't need a college degree, you just need a slap to wake you up and the stones to make it work well enough to survive/enjoy your time.

... Part of the fastlane philosophy as I understand it, is that subsistance is easy to fulfil if you have enough leverage. That leverage comes from MINDSET, and how you approach business.
The idea that you NEED anything from anybody is a mindset that will hold you BACK, and not give you the leverage to make the money you need comfortably. To me if you think that college is the answer to business, you should really start believing in yourself more, because you do not need qualifications to be a CEO, in fact I think about over 50% of all CEO's did not go to college.

Steve jobs got some trivial stuff from college, like caligraphy and stuff, but what made him a success (as portrayed in the recent jobs movie) was that he got out there and made something worth buying.
College gives knowledge but it doesn't give you motivation like that, if it DID, I'd definately go.

From my observations, college has only been the making or breaking factor in particular cases where people miraculously met the right people whilst attending. This usually happens in prominent schools, like with Bill Gates meeting his professor, or Trump meeting the guys (can't remember who) who helped him change his path. Despite the intervention of others through the social aspect of college, the will to succeed seems to be the most pressing factor to me towards a persons actual proclivity towards success in business.


Not all people can be successful as entrepenuers, but, I think that comes down to people not being able to be successful anywhere. It is a hard path (took me ten years of STUPIDNESS to even wake up! Wth!), but I think it is best to walk it, because even though the beginning innertia is extremely high, the top speed far surpasses what you will ever need (hey, I'm already about at what I need, the rest is just whatever). If you think you can get past that innertia then dropping out is a totally fine choice.

A good example of a dropping out done right is richkid actually...
I am certain that Richkid will not fail at making his life of entrepeneurial endevours, he is backed by a support group here and already has the willpower he needs (so will easily go past what he needs imo). However, sometimes it is a bad idea to drop out, such as when you are a stoner, with no support group, who plays video games, and has no intention of getting out there and doing it. Never follow the advice "drop out to follow your passion"... I did that, and it led to ten years of "wtf is this?!", I survived though (this bullshit about there being no good jobs is kinda dumb, I had some really nice jobs working in different places over the years, its not like you are forced to clean toilets without gloves on because you drop out).


To me, I wanna ask, is this really a question about college? Or is it a question of "what is the laziest thing I can do to garuntee success?", because there is no garuntee, and if you've got the will to succeed, it really doesn't matter which path you take, so long as you are aware of the DEBT you are getting into by going through college.

I think of it this way. Can you forsee a good return on investment by going to college? Can you see a good return on investment on a business you can get started on now?
If both of these choices are bad to you, you need to find something ELSE, because your options are both not up to the standards you need to succeed.

College or not... Learn to act on the business principles that make you a success. Its just the smart thing to do.

 

[Amber]

I'm sure you will get a ton of varying opinions on this subject but I want to chime in with my opinion. I thought college was a waste of time in my very early 20s, and I didn't at all take it seriously, and finally dropped out. A few years passed and I realized I wanted to give it another shot, so I started back early this year, and now that I am older I have just enough focus to take it seriously. I have learned alot and it is actually a fun experience because it is in a field of which I have a high interest. If you want to be wealthy, I dont know of any other way than entrepreneurship, though I'm sure there are other ways. I am majoring in Business Administration and will graduate next year! After failing miserably on my first attempt at the college thing. I would suggest not taking out student loans to go though, and dont start out in debt. I know its the Dave Ramsey way but I think the best thing for people just starting it is not to accumulate a mountain of debt before they even start their career.

 

[NVaz]

This video is a perfect example of the low hanging fruit

 

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