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Is goal setting B#LLSH@t?!

Discussion in 'General Mindset, Motivation, Beliefs' started by Maxboost, Aug 3, 2018.

Does goal setting work?

  1. Yes

    84.6%
  2. No

    15.4%
  1. Maxboost
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    Maxboost Silver Contributor I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    What is the forum's consensus on goal setting? I have a mindset problem that I have been struggling with for some time.

    In one camp, you always hear about the importance of goal setting in personal development circles. Without goals, you'll be a ship without a sail, etc.,etc,. Think Anthony Robbins.

    On the other hand, you hear people say goal setting is bullshit as most people will never achieve them and that you should be more concerned with habits. Think compound effect and Scott Adams.

    Whenever I set a goal, I usually miss the target end date for whatever reason. I start to feel negative about myself.

    Whenever I try to develop habits, it leads to action faking.

    I need to fix this brain of mine, any suggestions from anyone here?
     
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  2. Arun Siva
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    Arun Siva aspiring 大君 of the bourgeoisie Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass Summit Attendee

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  3. Everyman
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    Everyman Get To The Choppa! Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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  4. Maxboost
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    Maxboost Silver Contributor I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I read it but did not find any value in it. Basically I was doing DEEP work as a student in college but doing DEEP work as an entrepeneur is a totally different animal.
     
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  5. MTEE1985
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    MTEE1985 Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    What works for some won’t work for all. I happen to find that it works when I set end goals as opposed to means goals.

    Think...freedom vs. having $1,000,000.

    Now what habits must you develop and what kind of person must your become to achieve that goal of freedom? Write all that down. Now what can you do this year to become that person? What can you do this month? What can you do RIGHT NOW to work toward that.

    Again, this works for me, may not work for you. I have my list of ends goals and my reasons for wanting to achieve them and those are what drives me.
     
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  6. GoGetter24
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    GoGetter24 Silver Contributor Speedway Pass

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    It's because people treat goals as wishes.

    They think setting a SMART goal is sufficient to make it happen. It isn't. You need a clear and detailed action plan along with it. And then most importantly: you have to actually execute that plan.

    Your goal is either unreasonable, or you're being lazy. You have to take a "hell or high water" approach to deadlines, concurrent with reasonable well thought out deadlines.

    There is nothing wrong with the goal methodology.
     
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  7. ApparentHorizon
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    He says some decent stuff, but also too many out of context platitudes.

    "Set goals. Envision your success"
    "Your problem is not resources, it's resourcefulness"

    You need to experiment and see what works for you.

    Some people do well writing down every bit of detail, from the exact date and time, down to what clothes they're wearing. Others say, "I want to make 1 mill" and take off like a rocket.

    Personally, I can't set short term goals. My inner rebel just says "screw you I won't do what you tell me!" Funny enough, I get my projects done faster without setting these.

    Long term goals I do set. Not written down though. My end-goal plays like a broken movie loop multiple times a day.

    Studies show, if you write something down, you tuck it away in the back of your mind. Thinking...you now have it stored somewhere. No point in using up mental resources keeping track.

    On the other hand...

    I think it was Brian Tracy who said, he writes down his goals every morning and night. This is the repetition aspect of it, that heavily embeds the thought.

    None of these gurus explain how to set goals either.

    Here's mine -

    Short:
    - What do I have to get done today? Tomorrow? This week? This month?
    - In what way can I arrange the task in order of importance? What is just busy work, and what will get me a sale?

    Long:
    - What does my life look like?
    - Material possessions - cars, houses?
    - Social - who am I surrounded by?
    - Environment - where am I living?
    - Routine - what am I doing every day?

    Pick up Extreme Ownership by Jacko WIllink. He talks a lot about leading a team, but often you're at war with yourself and your mind. Similar principles apply whether you're guiding other people or yourself.
     
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  8. Kak
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    Kak Capitalist Swine Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    Not bullshit at all!

    You need a vision for where you're headed. What you want out of life. It needs to be honed and sharpened regularly. Never take your eyes off the prize.

    From Brian Tracy's Goals book... and I'm going to butcher this.

    They studied like 1000 college students graduating asked them if they had financial goals and if they did, did they write them.

    80 percent or so said no.
    15 percent said yes but not written.
    5 percent wrote them out.

    They checked back in with them like 10 years later and the differences between the categories were staggering. Goal setters made like double the money. The people that wrote them out, the ones with true vision, made like 10 times more.

    PS the poll is screwy by the way. The original question was "Is setting goals bullshit?" And then the poll says "does setting goals work?"
     
  9. Doodle
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    Doodle New Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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  10. ApparentHorizon
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    Tracy's & Ziglar's supposed Harvard and Yale studies, which are similar, aren't verifiable.

    There was a subsequent study, although not as thorough as originally claimed, showing the effects are plausible.

    However, you have to append the following, to goal setting:
    1. You need a plan
    2. You have to course correct as you go along
     
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  11. Real Deal Denver
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    All great advice.

    I set definite goals. I was supposed to achieve my main business goal in January of 2016. Didn't happen. Could have, but life has a way of screwing you over sometimes. So what now?

    I'm on track to achieve this in 60 days.

    Now, I'm better, faster, and smarter. Did I fail before? Everyone falls. There is no failure unless you fail to get back up. So I redid my goals. No problem really - I'm not going to load up on guilt or think I failed in any way. That's counter productive. I have enough enemies telling me how worthless and/or weak I am. I don't want to help them out by being on their side - think about that!

    Interestingly enough, despite my temporary setback, I am much further ahead of people that sat back this whole time and did the same old thing over and over again. Now THAT'S a waste of time. Things did not go according to plan, but I didn't waste time.

    I used to work shoulder to shoulder with people that I thought were pure genius. After working with them and seeing how they did things, I realized that I too could do the same thing, and achieve the same results - which I did. These people scaled mountain sized projects by breaking them down into stages, and then breaking the stages down into steps, and then putting it on a STEADY timeline. Of course there were setbacks. Things hardly EVER go according to plan. So they were setback - but they never stopped. Hence - the genius status bestowed upon them when they did accomplish their - wait for it - goal!

    I adopted their methods, and I was also soon achieving results too. That I had never done before. I didn't really, deep down inside, think I could. The world is an ugly place. There are forces out there all the time that wear you down. Cause you to doubt yourself. Cause you to compare yourself to other "more successful" people. Cause you to slow down, and sometimes stop.

    I slowed way down in Jan of 2016. Lost all my money. Regrouped. And then picked myself up and started again from where I had left off.

    Call those goals if you want to. I think most people become discouraged too easily, and when they fall short of their goals, they beat themselves up, thinking it is their fault. Then they naturally look for reasons it's their fault, and come up with all kinds of them. Self. Defeating. Mind. IGNORE IT! The other thing I learned from my earlier mentors is that your brain is a computer. It will work on whatever you tell it to. All the time - even subconsciously. If you WANT to find reasons you failed at your goal, your brain WILL tell you what you asked of it. That's how a brain works. It too has a "list" of things that it has to figure out. It doesn't judge the list - it just works to complete it. Your emotions, however, DO judge a list - so once you are AWARE of your brain just doing what it's supposed to do - you can reject those thoughts and THINK POSITIVELY. Think why NOT something can't be done. Think how you DO deserve success. Think HOW you need to improve to attain that success. And step back and behold the miracle of your brain - it will work on those questions, and it WILL provide you answers! I've lived it. Having a brain is like having a wife - it can be wonderful - or it can be your worst critic and hit you in your weakest spots. Think ABOUT THAT! It's totally true!

    Who is in control to change all of this? You. Who is the only one that can argue and persuade you that something won't work, or can't work, or you don't deserve it to work? You. YOU are the ONLY one that can do those things. Now that you know all of this, tap into your inner powers and turn things around. I know it can be done, because I have done it!

    One very very important thing. Stop and reward yourself from time to time for doing a good job. Even if you accomplished less than you thought you should by now, or if things took more time than expected. You didn't fail in any way - you just needed more time and effort. GOOD JOB - for getting THIS far. Nobody can take that away from you! Now go have a steak dinner - a few beers - a movie - SOMETHING to tell yourself you are valuable and you are worthy! You deserve success and you are on track to getting there - THAT is definitely worth a reward! FEEEEED your self esteem. Nobody else is going to, so you HAVE to take responsibility for that. Trust me - it's important!

    Goals are not bullshit. The world, in its own special way of knocking you down over and over, and making you doubt yourself is the bullshit. Once you recognize the enemy, you can succeed. Been there - lived it - love it!

    One saying I have in front of my computer is this: whether the world grinds you down or polishes you up depends on what you're made of. Kind of macho - but it's a good reminder of who the enemy is - and that's the world. It's you, buddy, against the world. Daunting odds, but you can do it. So many have already, that had so much less to work with than you do. Find a role model, or even take it further (like I do) and have a mastermind "group" of successful people.
     
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  12. Zcott
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    Goals are essential.

    If you have nothing to aim for you can easily float through weeks, months and years of your life without accomplishing anything. For some people that can lead to serious effects on mental well-being.

    If you do not have a goal then what are you doing? Habits, daily rituals, processes and execution are part of reaching them which is what separates achievers and people who just want but cannot be bothered with effort. The two go hand in hand.
     
  13. rollerskates
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    rollerskates Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I'm going to say maybe a goal doesn't work if it's a bullish*t goal. I remember a business plan I did years ago when I was first starting out in my first business. I did it with the help of a slow lane MBA type who didn't even ask me "how" I was going to reach that particular sales goal. They only asked what my goal was. I realize now it was a completely BS goal that couldn't have been achieved with any amount of work because the market just wasn't there.

    In addition to having previously set BS goals, I have a hard time following a daily plan, because I run into quite a few UEs (unexpected events). I spent 5 hours on the phone one day last week on a UE that had nothing to do with any of my goals, but was nonetheless essential to be done.

    And this is where my avatar is appropriate--I am exactly like this!

    So the particular goals we set might be BS and your life may be filled with UEs, so the thing to do, would be to use smaller time chunks and achieve the goal more slowly. But goals in and of themselves aren't BS.

    The other thing about goals is not to pick things like "I'm going to make a million dollars by the end of the year" or, "I'm going to make 100,000 sales next year", but more like "I am going to develop x new number of products" or "I am going to give away my software to x number of clients" before selling--I'm going to do something similar with my next few digital products.
     
  14. masterneme
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    masterneme Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Definitely NOT.

    BUT what if all your tasks are based on action faking? You fail.

    I recommend you the books "The ONE thing" and/or "Getting things done".

    There you'll have proper goal setting strategies.

    Another one with similar approach is "The 7 habits of higly effective people".

    It's always the same pattern, have a long-term vision, compose a path to success based on small steady daily actions, have them all written somewhere, consider them high priority, TAKE ACTION and track your progress.

    If goal setting is BS what is the alternative? Doing random things out of control and hope that you get lucky?
     
  15. Maxboost
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    Maxboost Silver Contributor I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    It was in Scott Adams book "How to fail at everything". Instead of creating goals you create systems or habits.

    For example if you state your intention of losing "25 lbs" by next month, you will most likely fail. If you create a system or habit of going to the gym, you're eventually going to get there.
     
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  16. CPisHere
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    CPisHere Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Apparently I'm the only one who has Voted "No" for Goalsetting doesn't work.

    It *does* work in some specific cases. For instance, if you have a business with a system in place & know that for every 10 sales calls you do, you get 1 customer... Then setting a goal of 100 new customers, you know you need 1,000 sales calls. Within a known system, goal setting works. But the SYSTEM is what matters.

    Usually, goals are set without the system in place to achieve them, and that's why I'd say Goal setting is B@llsh*t. In the typical scenario, you are better off with Scott Adam's philosophy.
     
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  17. masterneme
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    masterneme Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Imagine I want to lose 25 lbs by next month but I only lose 24, that's technically a fail.

    It's a matter of perspective, you can say "F**k I failed life sucks!" or instead "WOW I lose 24 freaking pounds!".

    Authors usually promote the use of time constraints to leverage Parkinson's law - Wikipedia but for some this puts too much psychological pressure and backfires.

    In the end it's the same thing.

    Have a long-term vision (with or without time constraints), compose a path to success based on small steady daily actions, have them all written somewhere, consider them high priority, TAKE ACTION and track your progress.

    I personally combine both, for some stuff I put a specific date to avoid procrastination and for other things I just track my progression.
     
  18. masterneme
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    masterneme Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Which is why goal setting works, it motivates you to create habits, it keeps you moving and allows your brain to free quite a lot of mental energy.

    I write a goal for my business and do nothing. What is the result?
    I create a system for my business and do nothing. What is the result?

    I write a goal for my business and perform small steady daily actions. What is the result?
    I create a system for my business and perform small steady daily actions. What is the result?

    If you write your goals and do your daily actions you won't need any conscious efforts on systems nor habits because it will be created by themselves.

    So YES, actionable goal setting does indeed work.

    Edit: Also, you can't control other people's reaction, in your example, what if you get ZERO costumers even making thousands of calls? It's not that goal setting doesn't work is that the goal is badly formulated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  19. CPisHere
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    The system is what matters. Scott suggests, and I agree, that you focus on on that. Obviously, to decide on a system, you have to have a goal, or at least vision of where you are going. But the goal isn't what you focus on or measure yourself by - the system is. Did I make 10 sales calls today? Did I workout? Do I have a schedule & time set/energy set aside to do it tomorrow?

    Actionable goal setting works in a system. The system is where you should focus.

    Most goals fail. Like, practically all of them. And I don't mean fall short. I mean FAIL. Even "actionable ones". Because the focus is on the wrong area.
     
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  20. S.Y.
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    I miss about 50% of the goals I am setting for myself. And guess what? It is intentional. Think of it as a smaller version of "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among stars".

    Goals served two purposes for me: they are my north direction and they push me to exceed myself.

    But then, isn't missing half of the goals I am setting depressing?. It is not. And this is because I think about systems. Let me explain why and how.

    There are many factors outside of my control that can make me fail a goal. And so, the first thing I do after setting a goal is to identify those actions I fully control that I need to do to complete the goal.

    For example:
    - Long-term goal: Learn Machine Learning from an entrepreneur perspective
    - Short term goal: Understand the basics of ML from a practical perspective (for the sake of simplicity, I am choosing only one)
    - Actions:
    1. Read the theory 2h every day
    2. Practice for 2h every day
    3. Take 30 min to review my practice (what did I struggle the most with? How can I improve on that aspect, etc...)
    Focusing on actions I have absolute control does many things. Among them:
    1. I have an immediate feedback: I feel great when I achieve them, and I feel bad when I don't.
    2. I control those actions and it keeps accountable. At the end of the week, I clearly know if I action-faked.
    3. More importantly for me: it satisfies my desire of control. It is no longer an elephant goal that creates stress when I think about it, but small delicious bites I can eat.
    James Clear goes into more details here. The 12 Week Year book is also an interesting resource on the subject.
     
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  21. masterneme
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    masterneme Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Therefore goal setting is not BS.
     
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  22. Real Deal Denver
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    Whaaaat?

    You must lead a miserable life.

    Everything I have accomplished has been the result of making a plan (setting goals) and then executing it. Most were big plans, and therefore were done in stages. All were completed. Maybe not the way I envisioned it, or on the timeline I preferred - but none failed.

    As for the system. What system? You sound like a young college grad that got a sheepskin and now thinks the system is to give him a cushy job and make lots of money. That's the way it works right? Sure - if you believed your guidance counselor in high school. Surprise. There is no system. The truth is that after you get your sheepskin, NOW the work begins to achieve your... goals.

    I've had this talk with my Sons. They quickly learned how the real world works. Then they adapted, set goals, achieved results, and thrived. I would hardly call that a system. I'd call it action with positive results based on a plan with defined goals.

    And then you say practically all goals fail? You must have goal setting issues. Unrealistic goals? Impossible timelines? I could set goals that fail, but I have to "balance" them with reality - to work with what I have. Where you veered left off the road is anyone's guess. Get back on the highway. You did read MJ's books right?
     
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  23. masterneme
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    masterneme Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Some food for thought now:

    Isn't goal setting by all definition a system?
     
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  24. rollerskates
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    rollerskates Silver Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    LOVE this book Everyone should read it. I have a board up in my office that says "The ONE thing". And I've actually fallen out of the habit of narrowing down to the one thing, I need to make that my first thing of the day--choose the one thing.
     
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  25. Kak
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    Kak Capitalist Swine Read Millionaire Fastlane FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    “Aren’t verifiable” is a far cry from a flat out lie.

    Brian Tracy and Zig Ziglar have/had very good reputations.
     
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