I’m Reading Atlas Shrugged; You’re Invited!!!!

[Primeperiwinkle]

One of my favorite books of all time.

It's a classic. Even communists should read it (just like all capitalists should read The Communist Manifesto).

I find Atlas Shrugged to be motivating and foster a tribal mindset among entrepreneurs. It's a very valuable book if entrepreneurship is in your life plan.

FYI it was pretty much a bible for Steve Jobs and Mark Cuban. After you finish Atlas Shrugged, also pick up Fountainhead, which is better in some ways.

Does this mean you’ll be joining us for the discussion??

 

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[csalvato]

Does this mean you’ll be joining us for the discussion??

Yes, I'm always down to discuss this book at length

But I won't be re-reading since I'm ripping through other classics at the moment

 

[André Casal]

I've read it before and loved it. I'm in.

 

[G-Man]

first infraction noted.

*pulls out knife sharpener and looks at it

Dammit I’m 39 and I still don’t know how to use the knife sharpener.. ugh.

*throws olive at person-who-shall-not-be-named

Heh.

*goes to freshen up the hors d’oeuvres.

There were no actual spoilers. I followed the letter of the law if not the spirit.

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

Gushy Post Incoming.

Ok so I have decided to let you guys in on a little ridiculous fun.. (I have a large amount of time to just think at my business where I literally cannot do anything but imagine stuff)

Six years ago I joined a beautiful forum filled with moms from all over the world who discussed books and parenting and education. It’s a private forum so we shared a lot. Over the years (I’m no longer very active there because I don’t homeschool my children) we would make little jokes about how it was a bit like a dormitory or a lovely mansion. We all had our separate places to sleep but we came together in the common room, as we had time, to sit and drink our tea and discuss.

From almost the very first month I joined THIS forum I have been really enjoying myself because this place is exactly like the guy version! It’s a a little refuge of understanding where ppl can refresh before tackling their life. Of course you all discuss different stuff but the ebb and flow is similar.

So whereas my other forum we always imagine a place that had comfy rocking chairs, babies nursing and brownies baking, flowers in every corner.. there were heated discussions about Jane Eyre and sketchbooks filled with watercolors... over here you guys have armor on the walls, leather chairs, a the cigar room and no ones ever in their pajamas except for the workout guys who are making protein shakes early in the morning.

Anyhoo.. I know this is silly but.. in my mind’s eye I found the common room here, a comfy but very masculine living room all prepared with a twenty foot medieval breakfast board against the back wall filled to the brim with steak kabobs and bread rolls and handcrafted beer and charcuterie ready for you all and there’s a huge fire blazing and of course I have the most comfortable seat on an oversized fancy beanbag so I can curl up and listen to a wonderful conversation before tomorrow when we gear up for battle, go out and face down business dragons.

And it’s nice. Because the vast majority of this forum is filled with gentlemen who really are changing the world. (And some awesome chicks!!)

I’m writing all this now because I’m going to try and stick to the discussion during the discussion.. so if I throw olives at any of you ever just remember I have excellent aim but it’s with love. Because I’m SO SO happy to finally have a book discussion about a novel with all of you.

Someday I’ll be too busy and in a completely different stage I’m sure but this winter I’ve got a great book and new friends.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

I've read it before and loved it. I'm in.

Wonderful! Glad to have you.

 

[Strategery]

because this place is exactly like the guy version

Why do you think there are more guys than girls here? I haven't figured out why entrepreneurship is primarily a "guy thing." I mean what difference does it make?

 

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[being.simon]

I found The Fountainhead more useful and inspiring personally. Give that one a go too.

 

[Supercar]

I've rear Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead 3 or 4 times each. The more I read them, the more I enjoy they, the more I learn and remember.

I think Ayn Rand meant to copy the success of the Bible with her Atlas Shrugged. It is just as addictive to alert minds as the Bible is to the lazy minds. Folks pick either one or the other, and each book reaffirms to their readers what they believe in. And indeed, Ayn Rand's followers keep proudly reminding everyone that Altas Shrugged is the second most popular book of all times after the Bible.

 

[StrikingViper69]

I've rear Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead 3 or 4 times each. The more I read them, the more I enjoy they, the more I learn and remember.

I think Ayn Rand meant to copy the success of the Bible with her Atlas Shrugged. It is just as addictive to alert minds as the Bible is to the lazy minds. Folks pick either one or the other, and each book reaffirms to their readers what they believe in. And indeed, Ayn Rand's followers keep proudly reminding everyone that Altas Shrugged is the second most popular book of all times after the Bible.

some folks pick both... I think there is actually a book that tries to resolve objectivism and Christianity

 

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[Blaise]

I've never read it so I'm down. I got the ebook from my library. Happy reading!

 

[Supercar]

some folks pick both... I think there is actually a book that tries to resolve objectivism and Christianity

I don't think it is possible when both point fingers at each other and call the other evil.

 

[being.simon]

I've rear Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead 3 or 4 times each. The more I read them, the more I enjoy they, the more I learn and remember.

I think Ayn Rand meant to copy the success of the Bible with her Atlas Shrugged. It is just as addictive to alert minds as the Bible is to the lazy minds. Folks pick either one or the other, and each book reaffirms to their readers what they believe in. And indeed, Ayn Rand's followers keep proudly reminding everyone that Altas Shrugged is the second most popular book of all times after the Bible.

We agree that The Fountainhead is amazing, but I'm curious what gave you the anti Bible sentiment. I find Jesus quite similar to Howard Roarke, certainly a "mover" in Rand terms. While his followers may be mostly second-handers (like most people), I do find the Jesus story by itself extremely inspiring as well.

 

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[Supercar]

We agree that The Fountainhead is amazing, but I'm curious what gave you the anti Bible sentiment. I find Jesus extemely similar to Howard Roarke, certainly a "mover" in Rand terms. While his followers may be mostly second-handers (like most people), I do find the Jesus story by itself extremely inspiring as well.

I hope discussing philosophy in abstract terms does not make this post a spoiler.

The short answer is that faith is anti-reason. For the long answer -- read Atlas Shrugged!

Jesus is more similar to Ellsworth Toohey from The Fountainhead rather than to Howard Roark or any character from Atlas Shrugged.

 

[reedracer]

Gushy Post Incoming.

Ok so I have decided to let you guys in on a little ridiculous fun.. (I have a large amount of time to just think at my business where I literally cannot do anything but imagine stuff)

Six years ago I joined a beautiful forum filled with moms from all over the world who discussed books and parenting and education. It’s a private forum so we shared a lot. Over the years (I’m no longer very active there because I don’t homeschool my children) we would make little jokes about how it was a bit like a dormitory or a lovely mansion. We all had our separate places to sleep but we came together in the common room, as we had time, to sit and drink our tea and discuss.

From almost the very first month I joined THIS forum I have been really enjoying myself because this place is exactly like the guy version! It’s a a little refuge of understanding where ppl can refresh before tackling their life. Of course you all discuss different stuff but the ebb and flow is similar.

So whereas my other forum we always imagine a place that had comfy rocking chairs, babies nursing and brownies baking, flowers in every corner.. there were heated discussions about Jane Eyre and sketchbooks filled with watercolors... over here you guys have armor on the walls, leather chairs, a the cigar room and no ones ever in their pajamas except for the workout guys who are making protein shakes early in the morning.

Anyhoo.. I know this is silly but.. in my mind’s eye I found the common room here, a comfy but very masculine living room all prepared with a twenty foot medieval breakfast board against the back wall filled to the brim with steak kabobs and bread rolls and handcrafted beer and charcuterie ready for you all and there’s a huge fire blazing and of course I have the most comfortable seat on an oversized fancy beanbag so I can curl up and listen to a wonderful conversation before tomorrow when we gear up for battle, go out and face down business dragons.

And it’s nice. Because the vast majority of this forum is filled with gentlemen who really are changing the world. (And some awesome chicks!!)

I’m writing all this now because I’m going to try and stick to the discussion during the discussion.. so if I throw olives at any of you ever just remember I have excellent aim but it’s with love. Because I’m SO SO happy to finally have a book discussion about a novel with all of you.

Someday I’ll be too busy and in a completely different stage I’m sure but this winter I’ve got a great book and new friends.

Good stuff! Could we keep an off-topic thread we can send such forays to while having the current thread do the discussion to your parameters.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

Why do you think there are more guys than girls here? I haven't figured out why entrepreneurship is primarily a "guy thing." I mean what difference does it make?

Lots more women lurkers in this forum than you guys are aware of..

But my unpopular opinion is that raising a handful of children is harder than running a business.

Have you ever tried nursing an infant? We lose our minds. We can’t function. We run on 1/2 hour of sleep a day for weeks. You can’t run a business and have babies constantly for years on end. Somethings gotta give. It just makes more sense that the person who is responsible for keeping a tiny person alive runs the business of the home. THAT is a full time job in and of itself. And there are forums for that.

ETA: I don’t really know. I just meant that all the finest, strongest, most brilliant women I know are already busy running a home.. but I’ve never worked in corporate America.

Good stuff! Could we keep an off-topic thread we can send such forays to while having the current thread do the discussion to your parameters.

Silly banter is part of the discussion. I’m totally lying when I say we’re gonna stay on point 100% of the time. But I feel like I should at least try. Lol. If we’re too silly we scare away the ppl who only have so much time to post. Often the ppl who have EXCELLENT points to make really don’t want to take the time to plow through four pages of ridiculous banter.

We’ll strike a balance for sure. We have to, I can’t possibly stay that emotionally consistent. #sorrynotsorry

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

I hope discussing philosophy in abstract terms does not make this post a spoiler.

The short answer is that faith is anti-reason. For the long answer -- read Atlas Shrugged!

Jesus is more similar to Ellsworth Toohey from The Fountainhead rather than to Howard Roark or any character from Atlas Shrugged.

This is an interesting opinion. I think you’re misinformed and maybe haven’t been surrounded by enough Christian intellectuals but I won’t know for sure until I finish the book.

I reserve my right to hate it with every fiber of my being by the time I’m done.

 

[Supercar]

I reserve my right to hate it with every fiber of my being by the time I’m done.

Many people do. They can't intelligibly explain why though. Once they start thinking, they learn things about themselves that they would rather not admit out loud, or even to themselves, because it hurts.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

Many people do. They can't intelligibly explain why though. Once they start thinking, they learn things about themselves that they would rather not admit out loud, or even to themselves, because it hurts.

That IS interesting. Well.. I do hope I don’t fall into that category. But I guess we’ll see. Happy to have you along either way.

 

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[Successful Steve]

Several ppl on the forum have evinced a desire to read Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged but it wasn’t until I googled Kak’s profile line “Who is John Galt?” that I decided I had to read this freaking book before the Summit.

I’m not a fan of Ayn Rand. I’ve never read ANY of her books before. I have no clue what this book is about.

Since Atlas Shrugged has 30 chapters I need to read 2 chapters a week to finish by February 7th. I ordered my copy last week and started reading today. I’m four pages in and I already know from experience that

This is real literature.

And I want to discuss it.

If you’d like to join me I’d love to have you in this SCHEDULED book discussion. Really. I think you’re smart. Whether you’re 15 or 78. Get in here and discuss. What does that mean?

A Scheduled Book Discussion means:

1. We read at an assigned pace together.

2. Each week I summarize what the book said then we talk about what we think it means and how we felt about it.

3. We can only talk about that weeks chapters in that thread. There will be a new thread every week.

4. You CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT the chapters we have already read.

5. No spoilers.

6. NO FREAKING SPOILERS OR I WILL CUT YOU!!!

I can’t possibly make this an inviting and flourishing book discussion if everybody just reads the whole book really fast.

I want to read it together. WITH you. Not AT you. My intent is to ponder and wonder about the book NOT TEACH. I’ve never read the book and I will not be reading any summaries or cliff notes or websites about it. I’m jumping in with only my wits and a pen to underline stuff. Yay!

In other forums this type of structured book discussion has gone amazingly well and has resulted in some powerful paradigm shifts and great relationships. I’m hoping it will happen here but I have no idea. Y’all might just ignore me. I doubt it though cuz I’m entertaining and oh so much fun. Lol. Also, sarcasm. Ha!

Every week I will post a new thread with a summary of the two current chapters. IN THAT THREAD we can discuss what we got out of those two chapters. Please read w/ me!! But no spoilers!!!!!!

If you’ve already read the book PLEASE PLEASE come hang out! But don’t give spoilers. The beauty here is that we will most definitely get some stuff wrong and/or have differing (sometimes passionately so) views but that w/ humility we will change our minds by reading more and DISCOVERING FOR OURSELVES what the book has to say to us.

You’re not a sheep. I don’t have to tell you what to think. You can figure it out on your own. But figuring something out together is just more fun.

If you’re not interested.. no worries. If you are interested (and excited!) please order your book now because this is the discussion schedule.

Part One
November 1st ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 1-2
November 8th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 3-4
November 15th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 5-6
November 22nd ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 7-8
November 29th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 9-10

Part Two
December 6th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 11-12
December 13th ~Atlas Shrugged Ch 13-14
December 20th~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 15-16
December 27th~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 17-18
January 3rd ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 19-20

Part Three
January 10th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 21-22
January 17th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 23-24
January 24th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 25-26
January 31st ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 27-28
February 7th ~ Atlas Shrugged Ch 28-30

Woot!

The longest and most intriguing book I’ve ever read. Couldn’t put it down.

 

[Successful Steve]

I don't think it is possible when both point fingers at each other and call the one evil.

They actually complement one another. Not sure which bible you’ve read.

 

[Supercar]

Here is a comprehensive article for those wanting to reconcile objectivism and religion:

Can You Love God and Ayn Rand?

Jennifer Anju Grossman, writes about whether it’s possible to love God and Ayn Rand. A friend claims the atheist philosopher at one point saw the appeal of spirituality.

www.wsj.com

If one likes both, the good author to read is Jim Rohn. His "The Art of Exceptional Living" consists 80% of the Ayn Rand's philosophy (even though he mentions her only once and gives her no credit) and 20% of excerpts from various Christian sermons. It used to be my favorite, I can still quote many ideas and even some paragraphs.

 

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[Primeperiwinkle]

I’m gonna read the book before I read anything more about Rand, I want to make my own conclusions.

 

[StrikingViper69]

Here is a comprehensive article for those wanting to reconcile objectivism and religion:

Can You Love God and Ayn Rand?

Jennifer Anju Grossman, writes about whether it’s possible to love God and Ayn Rand. A friend claims the atheist philosopher at one point saw the appeal of spirituality.

www.wsj.com

If one likes both, the good author to read is Jim Rohn. His "The Art of Exceptional Living" consists 80% of the Ayn Rand's philosophy (even though he mentions her only once and gives her no credit) and 20% of excerpts from various Christian sermons. It used to be my favorite, I can still quote many ideas and even some paragraphs.

the author of that article isn’t on the ball. The three axioms in her philosophy are:
1. Existence exists
2. A is A
3. Consciousness perceives existence.

However, As a consequence, we get the law that contradictions cannot exist - one fact cannot contradict another. This is not to say that man cannot hold contradictions in his mind. The article fails to make this distinction.

ie existence and rational men do not contradict each other, but we can make mistakes or evasions with our reasoning.

Now, this article doesnt actually make a point. It takes a quote from Rand when she was grieving her husband. I imagine she was incredibly upset at the time. And the quote sounds more like her sense of humour than an addition to her philosophy. To take that quote from her, at that point in her life, and to use it to try and undermine her work, is actually pretty offensive
This article is really an attack on her work, and the method is common - straw man arguments and context dropping. The author either sets up a false situation presented as real, or leaves vital parts of the context out in an attempt to make their point.

are there no religious villains in her fiction? Not in the way the article mentions. However, the first page of “the virtue of selfishness” (one of her books of non-fiction essays) explicitly states objectivism and religion are not compatible.

To say that Rand politically supported freedom of religion is true, but that does not mean she supports religion.

Religion rests on faith. You can’t prove religion, or give evidence for it. Faith and reason are not compatible.Epistemoloigically, religion relies on anti-concepts.

If you think Objectivism and religion are compatible, then you need to read some of her non-fiction.

and to wrap up... if we’re discussing the ideas, let’s do that, and not post random articles.

 

[JasonR]

Rand may have been a bit of a crazy person in real life, but both Altas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are excellent.

I enjoyed the Fountainhead more. Rand's writing is verbose, and Galt's 40 page (or was it 100) was excessive in Atlas Shrugged.

That being said, both are must reads.

 

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[VIVEKSINGHJADONS]

I have bought Atlas Shrugged when I was in college but i never finished it, although I read The Fountainhead earlier which motivated me to read Atlas Shrugged . I think now is the better time to finish Atlas Shrugged. I hope this would be an enriching experience with you guys. Let's do it.

 

[Little Bo]

I just saw a post and ordered this book unfortunately it should arrive November 1, so I'll catch up with you guys on the next week discussion.

 

[Supercar]

the author of that article isn’t on the ball. The three axioms in her philosophy are:
1. Existence exists
2. A is A
3. Consciousness perceives existence.

However, As a consequence, we get the law that contradictions cannot exist - one fact cannot contradict another. This is not to say that man cannot hold contradictions in his mind. The article fails to make this distinction.

ie existence and rational men do not contradict each other, but we can make mistakes or evasions with our reasoning.

Now, this article doesnt actually make a point. It takes a quote from Rand when she was grieving her husband. I imagine she was incredibly upset at the time. And the quote sounds more like her sense of humour than an addition to her philosophy. To take that quote from her, at that point in her life, and to use it to try and undermine her work, is actually pretty offensive
This article is really an attack on her work, and the method is common - straw man arguments and context dropping. The author either sets up a false situation presented as real, or leaves vital parts of the context out in an attempt to make their point.

are there no religious villains in her fiction? Not in the way the article mentions. However, the first page of “the virtue of selfishness” (one of her books of non-fiction essays) explicitly states objectivism and religion are not compatible.

To say that Rand politically supported freedom of religion is true, but that does not mean she supports religion.

Religion rests on faith. You can’t prove religion, or give evidence for it. Faith and reason are not compatible.Epistemoloigically, religion relies on anti-concepts.

If you think Objectivism and religion are compatible, then you need to read some of her non-fiction.

and to wrap up... if we’re discussing the ideas, let’s do that, and not post random articles.

Dude -- In a true objectivist fashion you are attacking not your enemies but your closest friends, those who you think said something anti-reason. The author of the article is Jennifer Grossman, the CEO of the Atlas Society, one of only two pillars of Objectivism, the Ayn Rand Institute being the other. Whatever the reason Jennifer Grossman had to write for WSJ, it was not to undermine Ayn Rand or Objectivism. Neither is it my reason for linking her article here.

And yes, I have read everything that has ever been written by Ayn Rand, and almost everything that was written about her and about Objectivism by her friends and enemies.

And I have read the Bible too, both the Old and the New Testaments, for entertainment purposes only. Not a fan, but the parts with sex and murder are just as entertaining as in any other novel. I can't say I recommend it, but it's worth knowing what one third of the world is bowing to.

 

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[being.simon]

The short answer is that faith is anti-reason. For the long answer -- read Atlas Shrugged!

Jesus is more similar to Ellsworth Toohey from The Fountainhead rather than to Howard Roark or any character from Atlas Shrugged.

We have completely different takes on Jesus. To me he does not actually represent faith, but mission, radical integrity, and independance. Just like Roarke. He never actively sought out disciples through manipulation like Toohey, but passively gained some who saw how special he was, like Roarke. And in the end, an entire nation wanted him dead, and he still refused to give in and compromise his truth, nor did he feel any anger or resentment against them. Just like Roarke.
Toohey only wanted absolute power. Jesus couldn't have cared less.

 

[StrikingViper69]

Dude -- In a true objectivist fashion you are attacking not your enemies but your closest friends, those who you think said something anti-reason. The author of the article is Jennifer Grossman, the CEO of the Atlas Society, one of only two pillars of Objectivism, the Ayn Rand Institute being the other. Whatever the reason Jennifer Grossman had to write for WSJ, it was not to undermine Ayn Rand or Objectivism. Neither it is my reason for linking her article here.

And yes, I have read everything that has ever been written by Ayn Rand, and almost everything that was written about her and about Objectivism by her friends and enemies.

And I have read the Bible too, both the Old and the New Testaments, for entertainment purposes only. Not a fan, but the parts with sex and murder are just as entertaining as in any other novel. I can't say I recommend it, but it's worth knowing what one third of the world is bowing to.

Hey man, I wasn't attacking you, just clearing up a few ideas I think that article was misleading about. I had no idea who the author was, but I'm surprised she's the head of the Atlas Society. Well, sort of... I wouldn't consider them a pillar of Objectivism. That article has a ton of problems...