How to kill your limiting belief system.

[Vinz]

Oh by the way, psychology, neuroscience, religion... it's all the same shit. there's only one truth and every feild has a different way of approaching that truth (although there are definitely egoic delusions that shove them selves into each philosophy)... but i mean if you study all the different feilds they all point to the same reality:

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It's all the same stuff..




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it's all the same shit for thousands of years, but the same truth just keeps showing up in different Amazon Prime boxes

There's something that I have been asking myself everytime I see Maslow's pyramid
If things like sex, security of employment and resources, health and property, family etc are all basic needs , how can other things like self esteem, confidence and problem solving be at the top, to be obtained after these ? You need self esteem and confidence to have security of emplyment and health, family, sex etc so shouldn't these be the foundation ? Especially self esteem and confidence. Without any of these two you will have an hard accomplishing the most basic things in there.

Or does it talk about just about the level of satisfaction that each one of these "activities" gives ?

I always initially saw it as an obligatory "you start from the bottom then climb up" but then thinking about it it seems to me more like jumping up and down the levels. At least that's what I'm doing in my life

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

There's something that I have been asking myself everytime I see Maslow's pyramid
If things like sex, security of employment and resources, health and property, family etc are all basic needs , how can other things like self esteem, confidence and problem solving be at the top, to be obtained after these ? You need self esteem and confidence to have security of emplyment and health, family, sex etc so shouldn't these be the foundation ? Especially self esteem and confidence. Without any of these two you will have an hard accomplishing the most basic things in there.

Or does it talk about just about the level of satisfaction that each one of these "activities" gives ?

I always initially saw it as an obligatory "you start from the bottom then climb up" but then thinking about it it seems to me more like jumping up and down the levels. At least that's what I'm doing in my life

As far as I know, Maslow’s Pyramid is not sequentially ordered (ie, fulfil these needs first, then these other ones after). Rather it is ordered in terms of logical priority… so you eat and sleep in order to be healthy and enjoy meaningful relationships, and you do those in order to self-actualize. That’s what logical priority means. So you do the lower level needs for the sake of the higher level needs. This is what I remember from reading some of Maslow’s work a loooong time ago.

But yeah, most commonly, people think those needs are sequentially ordered, which is not what Maslow meant.

 

[Vinz]

As far as I know, Maslow’s Pyramid is not sequentially ordered (ie, fulfil these needs first, then these other ones after). Rather it is ordered in terms of logical priority… so you eat and sleep in order to be healthy and enjoy meaningful relationships, and you do those in order to self-actualize. That’s what logical priority means. So you do the lower level needs for the sake of the higher level needs. This is what I remember from reading some of Maslow’s work a loooong time ago.

But yeah, most commonly, people think those needs are sequentially ordered, which is not what Maslow meant.

Thanks, that's a doubt I had. It's evident that it isn't a structured and obligatory sequence. They kinda feed each other but ultimately end up at the top

 

[ChrisV]

The bottom of Maslow pyramid is basically “don’t die” and “don’t let your genes die”.. it’s really important to be alive in order to get the other things done

all jokes aside it’s basically the triune brain.. the center of the brain handles stuff even lizards do, then as you move out it handles more “human” functions

 

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[Paul David]

Interesting thread, some great posts!

One of the many bad habits, choices, thoughts whatever you want to call them relates to food.

I don't like the taste of vegetables so I very rarely eat them. I eat things I really like fries, curry, fried rice, noodles, chocolate, crisps and have lots of salt etc. I'm not one of those people who puts lots of weight on so guess I'm lucky there. However one of my goals is to have pecs, six pack, abs etc. I'll spend 10 mins looking at before and after pictures of a gym I'm wanting to join (but currently can't afford), then 10 mins later I'll eat two bars of chocolate. Then i'll fast for two days the week after as I feel my pants getting tighter. It's a constant yoyo.

Generally I eat to cheer myself up, I'll be working on the laptop and think for my dinner I'll get KFC as it breaks my working day up and it's something I like the taste of. Something to look forward to. Instant gratification. So i have a really bad relationship when it comes to food. I'm nearly 41. How can I try your technique on this issue.

 

[ChrisV]

If A part of your life just isn't working ask yourself "what are my beliefs on this subject" and see how you feel about it.

It's confirmation bias that ultimately results in creating the conditions for that thing to happen.


Unearthing beliefs kinda like pulling rocks from your back yard. You have to poke around and dig them out. If they're too big, mark them for later. Write them down and do them little by little. Find the gross black rocks in your unconscious mind. All the things you believe about X. You don't really need ANY ‘beliefs’ if I'm perfectly honest. I have pretty much no beliefs and I'm still fine. I'm alive and writing this messages. Beliefs are biases and unearthing them and tossing them let's you see reality clearly. They're saturated by heavy emotional gunk.

 

[ChrisV]

How can I try your technique on this issue.

What are your beliefs about vegetables? When did you get those beliefs. I had an issue with this, and when I was a kid I was forced to eat vegetables. Every time I went to eat vegetables I felt like I was being forced to submit to authority. Then my brain would justify that belief by saying “I just don’t like the taste.” You have to find the root cause. Then you can go back to that childhood scene and vent your beliefs. Pull out all the shit that’s there. It’s hard to describe how the world of the unconscious mind works but you’re basically just pulling out gross shit. But just use the Guided Association technique until you get used to pulling beliefs.

You can just vent about the topic, write about it... you just have to take your unconscious beliefs and bring them to the light of your consciousness. They’re just sitting in your unconscious mind so you have to pull the beliefs out. Doing this pulls them out. But you may have to do it a couple of times to get everything.

View: https://youtu.be/qa9u5t3C0AI

Do that or bundle up all your thoughts and feelings on the topic including the roots and throw them in the river. Just keep throwing all your feelings in the river. I mean I’ve done this on basically every topic good or bad and I’ve never been so clear-headed. I feel like a billion bucks every day. Just by erasing Ego.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

What are your beliefs about vegetables? When did you get those beliefs. I had an issue with this, and when I was a kid I was forced to eat vegetables. Every time I went to eat vegetables I felt like I was being forced to submit to authority. Then my brain would justify that belief by saying “I just don’t like the taste.” You have to find the root cause. Then you can go back to that childhood scene and vent your beliefs. Pull out all the shit that’s there. It’s hard to describe how the world of the unconscious mind works but you’re basically just pulling out gross shit. But just use Freud’s Free Association technique until you get used to pulling beliefs.

View attachment 38786

You can just vent about the topic, write about it... you just have to take your unconscious beliefs and bring them to the light of your consciousness. They’re just sitting in your unconscious mind so you have to pull the beliefs out. Doing this pulls them out. But you may have to do it a couple of times to get everything.

View: https://youtu.be/qa9u5t3C0AI

Do that or bundle up all your thoughts and feelings on the topic including the roots and throw them in the river. Just keep throwing all your feelings in the river. I mean I’ve done this on basically every topic good or bad and I’ve never been so clear-headed. I feel like a billion bucks every day. Just by erasing Ego.

It just occured to me that IFS/Freud here basically explain why imaginal exposure and the Stoic premeditatio malorum work. In both cases, you’re listening to those dark parts of yourself and letting them speak freely, related to anxiety ofc, but it can work for other issues too. Very interesting!

Basically when you’re asked by the Stoics to contemplate evil, ie losing everything etc, you’re basically opening yourself up to hearing those demons out, and it diminishes your anxiety.

If you look at my case, OCD, it’s also similar in what you do for ERP… you basically get used to finally hearing the demons (obsessions) out rather than running away from them by doing your compulsions (the distraction). The theory in ERP is that you habituate yourself to it, hence anxiety diminishes.

But I for one much prefer the explanation of the unconscious, I feel that’s more like what is going on, rather than mere habituation.

 

[ChrisV]

“What is quite unlooked for is more crushing in its effect, and unexpectedness adds to the weight of a disaster. This is a reason for ensuring that nothing ever takes us by surprise. We should project our thoughts ahead of us at every turn and have in mind every possible eventuality instead of only the usual course of events…

Rehearse them in your mind: exile, torture, war, shipwreck. All the terms of our human lot should be before our eyes.”

— Seneca

Also:

 

[Dora Wi]

A lot of the stuff Chris talks about is going back to the idea of memory reconsolidation:

You Can Change the Past: Using Active Mindfulness to Rescript Difficult Memories - Buddhistdoor Global

Beyond accepting the past, we can actively change it and...

www.buddhistdoor.net

Basically it's the theory that what causes the psychological issue you are faced with is not so much a belief, thought, behavior, or emotion, but rather a certain memory which gets activated in certain situations (possibly not even consciously) and triggers the beliefs, thoughts, behaviors and emotions. As such, the memory predetermines the "felt-sense" of reality that you have, and is more primal than your beliefs (which under CBT are thought to be the foundation).

Now the way to heal, or as Chris says to "reprogram" your mind is to access those memories, and invert the felt emotional sense of them while they're active. If you can do that, your memory locks up with the new emotional sense, and the old one gets overwritten. As such, whatever used to trigger the cascade of beliefs, thoughts, emotions, etc. is no longer present, and all of them fall apart.

Now is this possible? Absolutely. Is it easy? No, obviously.

Thanks for the clarification and the article, this actually makes sense indeed

 

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[ChrisV]

100%... that's the biggest problem of self-help. You see it most, in my honest opinion, and I don't mean any disrespect to women, in many female influencers on Instagram. They tell each other and their followers that they're perfect just the way they are, and everyone who sees differently than them is a big meanie... just love yourself, you know the schtick. I think that's supremely poisonous.

There’s an old Christian saying that says “love the sinner, hate the sin”… which means separate peoples behaviors from them as individuals.

If you “love the sinner, love the sin” it promotes unhealthy behaviors and contributes to them stating stuck.

If you “hate the sinner, hate the sin” you’re too hard on the individual and judge them as people.

The last two mentalities fail to separate behaviors from individuals. But if you separate maladaptive (unhelpful) behaviors from the individual you’re in a better position to truly help them do what’s best for themselves.

Failing to separate the individual from the behavior is what Carol Dweck would call a Fixed Mindset (as opposed to a Growth Mindset) and a Growth Mindset is one of the best predictors of success in almost all areas of life.