How I lost $1,000

[wade1mil]

Some things I learned the hard way with PayPal that hopefully you don't have to - ALL FOR FREE!

I placed a sample order of 12 units of a product from a manufacturer in China a month ago. The product turned out great, so I proceeded to place my first big order of 2,000 units. I convinced the manufacturer to accept PayPal as payment because I heard that PayPal sides with the buyers most of the time. Fast forward two weeks...

I received the order of 2,000 units, and 1,800 of them were completely garbage! There is no way I would accept the product as a consumer, and there is no way I would sell this product as a business. First thing I did was contact the seller...

They would not issue a refund and would not offer replacements. So, I started a dispute with PayPal to get my money back. Here are a few things that happened that may benefit you from a business perspective as well as a consumer's perspective.

1) I explained in two paragraphs what happened and PayPal decided in my favor within three days. They didn't even require me to show them proof that the product was indeed poor. Lesson learned: PayPal sometimes sides with the buyer without question.

2) I contacted PayPal and asked how to proceed. They said all I needed to do was ship it back to China with a signature confirmation and tracking number. The problem is that would cost me $300, and that is my responsibility. Lesson learned: The buyer is responsible for paying return shipping UNLESS the product is a fake, like an imitation Rolex or Coach purse. If you buy something fake, you are not required to send it back.

3) I asked to speak to a supervisor because I don't think it should be my responsibility to ship defective product back to the manufacturer at my expense. I told the supervisor that the product would be thrown away if it was shipped back to them because it's my brand and they can't sell my branded products to anyone else. If they are going to throw it away, then why should I have to send it back. I can throw it away for free. Lesson learned: ANYTHING that is custom made is not covered by a PayPal dispute. If YOU sell custom products, PayPal will decide in your favor.

4) The supervisor closed the case in favor of the seller. Shit. He told me I should dispute the charge with the credit card I used from within my PayPal account. I try to use credit cards instead of my bank account in case of things like this - the dispute process seems to be more buyer friendly with credit cards than debit cards. I just opened the dispute with the credit card company this morning and they said it should take 30-40 days. Lesson learned: Use a credit card from within PayPal to get another level of security.

Lesson learned: With language barriers, any time you feel SOMETHING is off, however small it is, make sure you are 100% confident before proceeding. This whole situation probably could have been avoided if I would have questioned when the seller said producing the product would be "hard to make," when what she should have said is "so hard to make it would be of poor quality."

Live and learn.

 

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[Amail]

Ouch. Hopefully your credit card will give you the protection you need, although 30-40 days is quite a while!

Great insight - speed+

 

[Ikke]

Have had a similar experience with paypal. Bought 100 products from a supplier. And they were a different and wrong size . Made a paypal dispute and it was denied, because I only had protection if the product didn't arrive.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Buy everything on AMEX ... they always side with the buyer.

Thanks for posting this valuable info. Speed+

 

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[oddball]

Buy everything on AMEX ... they always side with the buyer.

Thanks for posting this valuable info. Speed+

Discover has been good for me. Only had to do file twice I think but it went well.
I just started using AMEX a couple months ago though for some things.

 

[johnp]

Sorry to hear about that I had a similar experience with buying and selling Mp3 players from China. My final batch was so bad that I trashed all of them and refused to sell to people who had pre-ordered the products.

The bright side of things - you learned a lesson and 1K isn't that much to lose. One time I lost 2K in about 30 minutes in the casin0. That hurt for about 10 minutes, then I moved on.

 

[theBiz]

If you want to be the best stunt man in the world, you are going to break a few bones.

 

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[danoodle]

I definitely agree with using a credit card for everything. I have had one of my cards used fraudulently twice and both times they corrected the problem fast and in my favor. I have a friend who got screwed at Walmart using his debit card. He said the cashier memorized the front and someone standing in line was able to see the back for the CCV code and cleaned out his bank account to the tone of 3k. He took it up with the bank and they said there was nothing they could do. Always always always use a credit card!

 

[Vigilante]

Find the cheapest way possible to send them back to the supplier. That's probably USPS international first class. Write a nice note in there to the supplier and ask them to have them remade for you. Promise future business that you will never award them. If you're going to throw them away anyway… You have nothing to lose as long as you don't spend $300 shipping them back to the supplier.

 

[Vigilante]

Or… Take the whole thing as a tax loss write off.

 

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[wade1mil]

I'm not really upset about losing the $1,000. The two things that upset me are 1) I spent two months to get to start over, and 2) the principle that I don't think I should be responsible for paying for the return shipping. Overall, I'm glad I went through it because I learned more than if everything would have been perfect. Pretty neat actually.

My plan is to try and have the charges reversed by the credit card without having to pay return shipping. If that doesn't work, I'll sell them as seconds on eBay in groups of 10 for $9.95 (90% off). I can sell 1,800 of them and get back what I put into them. In the mean time, I am looking for another manufacturer.

This thread was more to help some people with PayPal transactions.

 

[TK1]

Paypal ist WAY better than their reputation. It's probably the bank of the future

 

[sal]

I've received shitty products several times already from China, it seems like they know how much of an annoyance it is to return products internationally so they use it to their advantage...
In all honesty have never actually had a fair deal with the Chinese, even here in New Zealand they seem to love ripping people off, the apartments I'm currently staying at has shocking management, unrealistic fines everywhere, returning your mail because you missed a digit of your apartment number, overpriced internet...
Although I'm sure its human nature, China has a population of 1.3billion people with a huge percentage of that being poverty struck-
So they probably choose to take all the profit they can get away with regardless of quality of service because "It's a cruel world"
(no racist just experience)

Not looking forward to the unpredictability of the next batch of items I get from there tbh >.>

Will be using PayPal regularly soon so thanks for the heads up

 

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[Vigilante]

I disagree with nearly everything Sal said about the Chinese. They have their winners and losers like every people group. I would trust several of my current contacts to watch my children. While I don't discount Wade's experience, it doesn't represent an entire people group.

Wade, consider trying LARGER wholesale lots (like 400 units per) and/or selling them to someone who can use them at a flea market or elsewhere. I am glad this didn't dampen your spirits. You've lived to fight another day.

Wade, was this company a gold supplier on AilExpress?

 

[wade1mil]

Wade, consider trying LARGER wholesale lots (like 400 units per) and/or selling them to someone who can use them at a flea market or elsewhere.

I believe the magic number is 200 per design/color to have them machine made. That is probably the direction I am going to have to go in round 2.

Wade, was this company a gold supplier on AilExpress?

Yes, 5 years.

 

[Vigilante]

I meant larger wholesale lots to liquidate the product. 10 units per lot will take a LONG TIME. 400 units per lot and your problem may go away quickly.

 

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[sal]

I disagree with nearly everything Sal said about the Chinese.

Just speaking from personal experience, maybe things will change? Idk.

 

[wade1mil]

I meant larger wholesale lots to liquidate the product. 10 units per lot will take a LONG TIME. 400 units per lot and your problem may go away quickly.

Oh gotcha! I thought you meant the next order be 400. Yes, that is a great idea. In fact, I'll probably throw a lot or two on eBay tonight and see how it goes. If I sold 400 of them, I'd be close to where I would be if I had to send them back to China. Thanks for the idea. Speed++

Is there any recourse against Gold members?

 

[Vigilante]

Did you place the order THROUGH the web site, or outside of the web site? If you placed it through the web site, there is.

 

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[Vigilante]

[video=youtube;Hu10DfWp4ss]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu10DfWp4ss[/video]

 

[Determined2012]

Hi!
I'm very happy you posted this- because I am about to make an order with a vendor from AliExpress. I have been researching everything about ordering, and returning, etc.

(I was going to use my debit card, but now I'm going to use my credit card) Thanks for pointing this out.

One thing I learned is that the "Gold" status can be brought and just added to the vendors page (on Alibaba and Aliexpress)--- its not verified or earned---I learned that most of the reviews may be fake ( posted by vendors/people with an interest in the vendors business)....And a lot of the vendors are all working for the SAME parent company under different vending names...and sometimes they work TOGETHER on the same transactions- unbeknownest to the buyer... So you may be doing business with a vendor you called yourself avoiding....

Another thing I wanted to say is that some vendors will agree to give you free return shipping if you ask this question in advance, (and making it clear to them that processing of the order is hinging on them saying yes): If I am not satisfied with this product due to a manufacturing reason will you cover the cost of return shipping? The answer to this says ALOT about the purchase you are about to make!

I was also researching that it is better to put the order in escrow---- where the funds are not released to the vendor until the buyer states that he is satisfied with the purchase...

Well that's what I learned anyway when I was conducting my due diligence! I hope this info can help people out too.

Thanks a lot--- I am looking to spend $2,000 on my first purchase (and thats only for 44 pieces)--- and that's why I want to be as careful and knowledgeable as possible...

 

[jilla82]

If anything, people should take away that if the vendor is nudge you in a certain direction...that it may not be them trying to get over on you, its just them trying to tell you what would be best for you.

You have to remember everyone doesnt respond, and act like a westerner (especially us from the States)...we are very direct people...the rest of the world is not.

 

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[andviv]

I was going to use my debit card, but now I'm going to use my credit card

As far as I understand, if you use your Debit Card but select Credit when using the pad, you are safer. Is this correct?