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Here to destroy all your preconceived notions about college

dknise

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It's no secret. I hate college.:thumbsup:

In less than a month I will be giving a speech to high school seniors in my area (who are choosing not to go to college) about what options they have and how to grasp their full potential.

For these kids and nearly all Americans, the indoctrination of "you have to go to college" starts when the kids are just 12 or 13. My first experience was when a school councilor came into my class to talk about preparing for college. I was in 7th grade.

Why go to college?
So I can get a good job.
I want to be educated.
I am expected to by not only my family, but society.
I want to make a lot of money.

Destroying your thoughts #1: So I can get a good job:
Despite what you have been promised since day one, a college education does not promise you a "good job." It is no single person's responsibility in society who's official title is "job creator." The next time you're in Target, Best Buy, or a restaurant and see someone who looks like they're old enough to have a degree, ask them what degree they got. They'll probably tell you. I'm pretty sure I could walk in to any three of those places and land that same job without spending four years of my life and $100,000 to become edumacated.

Destroying your thoughts #2: I want to be educated:
Take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if you're goal is to get a piece of paper that says you are smart or if you are actually yearning for the knowledge behind it. K-12 education should be teaching students how to learn and how to find out what they want and need to know. Instead of preparing students to do this, research classes are taught to prep you how to use these skills for college papers, not for real life. Public educators are convincing students every day that the only way to learn something new is by going to school and taking a class for it. Rather than being focused on freeing people from school, they are breeding students to become dependent on it. Do you feel empowered now?:smilielol:

So what are you going to get when you get to college? For the first two years, you'll be completing under-grad courses that are no more difficult than what you took in high school. You'll be shoved in a room with 400 people learning from a 23 year old guy who touts his double majors and vast life experience. Do the math on what you're paying for, and you'll find out that at a common four year university, you'll be paying about $35 per hour for that course. 400 people x $35 / hour = $14,000 to have a 23 year old grad student teach you about starting a successful business. Congrats.

Don't worry though, the 23 year old grad isn't actually going to be teaching from his vast knowledge of experience of 0 days outside of his college frat house, but they will have you purchase a book from their book store which will be the sole source of knowledge. How do you think this book is chosen? By the credentials, authority, and experience of the author? Or the person and publishing company that gives the school the best deal? Yes, it is number two. Integrity fail, but at least you get a good school discounted price right? No. :( Nearly every single book is double the price of what you would pay if you were to do your own research on purchasing the book and found it on Amazon. So I'll just borrow my friends book right? No. They update the books with a single change every semester and tell their students they have to have the newest one for this course. But don't worry, you'll be able to sell it back to the bookstore after your one quarter or semester class, for 5% the price.

The last time I checked, libraries were free. In an age where knowledge has never been more accessible to an individual, it is surprising how incapable the average person is from taking advantage of it. I have access to more information from the touch interface of my phone than my parents had in the entire libraries of both of their colleges combined and yet our new generation still gives the excuse that they can't learn something until they go to school.

Libraries used to be centers for intellectuals. People flocked to them to not only gain knowledge, but also to create new knowledge. If you can't even hold yourself responsible for finding knowledge (and have to pay someone who's under qualified to do it for you), then how do you ever expect to add to the human knowledge base. Who are the "knowledge creators?" Could Bill Gates have gone to school and learned to do what his company produced? Or was he one of these knowledge creators?

Destroying your thoughts #3: I am expected to by not only my family, but society:
Great! So you've decided you want to be a millionaire and are interested in the fastlane. The best people to learn from are the people that epitomize what and who you want to become. Since your parents and every single person in society is a millionaire with a successful business, who better to listen to. #sarcasm. Why on earth would you listen to somebody's advice who hasn't done it and proved it's success? The all mighty irony of people who say that TMF taught them more in 300 pages than their business degree did, is that one was taught by people who regurgitate information for $100,000, and the other cost $7 and was written by a guy who actually did it. Choose who you listen to. Read voraciously and always desire to learn more, but research who it is you are learning from. Rather than go to class and read what the guy who's never started a business in the front of the room wants you to read... read the book cover to cover from the guy who actually did what's in his book. If you want to strive above the average of society, why take their path knowing where it leads to?

Destroying your thoughts #4: I want to make a lot of money:
Define "a lot." Do you define wealth in the amount of money you have or the freedom that you have in your life? Do you think about how that money is acquired or are you so anxious that you take the immediate route of what will get you it here and now because society said so?

It takes money to make money. The irony of listening to entrepreneur's in school talk about how hard it is to start up a company with no funds is that they're spending thousands on their edumacation every year which could be put towards starting a business.

One of the things I will be talking to the high school seniors about is debt. When you hear about predatory loan practices, student loans never seem to come up. Kids are forced into a situation where they are led to believe that the people they are listening to are giving them the best possible advice. They can't be steered wrong. For the school councilor that is make $40,000 a year and still paying off his student loans from 12 years ago, he's probably not the guy I want to be listening to about how to properly provide myself with a skill set to start a multi-million dollar company. High school students are led to take on 6 figures of crippling debt with the promise of a better tomorrow. Think about what you could do with $100,000 in business.



Unlike your college professor, I am taking the advice I have just given. I quit school three years ago, have read hundreds of books on my own, started several successful businesses, learned what I want and what I don't want out of life, became a professional programmer, worked at Microsoft as a software dev before CS majors even graduated, have more money in the bank than most of the guys my age have in debt after college, and still know that I am in the absolute infant stages of my journey and have so so so incredibly much more to learn. I am not saying to take my advice... I am NOT the person who has been there, done that, and has the life that you want to live. I urge you to find those people for what you want to learn and listen to them. Get out of the student-teacher relationship and get into the mentor-apprentice. Become an apprentice by reading material of the people you want to listen to. You don't have to have direct communication to have a mentor. Last but not least, if you choose this route, don't expect anybody to agree with you. Like I said, your parents and society are expecting you to do one thing, but you don't want what "everyone" has. You want more. It's a lonely road, but you have to take actions that few do to live like few can.

:thumbsup:
 
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clarkster009

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A lot of info and I am feeling lazy but...

the one problem you mentioned about campus bookstores paying $hit for books led to the creation of this site: Rent Textbooks. Buy Textbooks. Textbook Rentals | Chegg.com

I have purchased from them before, and sold, it's a slick system they set up. It was started by a couple fresh college graduates that saw a need...I think I remember it coming out around 2004 when I was in undergrad and I think I used them a couple times for my Master's books a couple years ago.
 

Mr.Dietsch

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Well clarkster maybe your school's haven't caught up but my school now creates personalized books individually for our school that you have to purchase. This means I cannot purchase my book online, this means I cannot sell my book to anyone that does not attend my school. They yet again rigged the system in their favor. Those smart, predictable, bastards!

P.S. Dknise, you should def bring The Millionaire Fastlane and suggest they pick up this earth shattering read.
 

Hassassin

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Thanks for the advice i have recently decided to quit college and get fastlaning =) but im going to apply for an apprenticeship and work with that while i put the pedal to the medal.
Thanks again love to hear more !:)
 
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dknise

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P.S. Dknise, you should def bring The Millionaire Fastlane and suggest they pick up this earth shattering read.
When I read TMF ... I was putting my palm up to my face yelling "YES!" haha. If I ever wrote a book it would have come out exactly like TMF . The only difference... MJ's actually done it and reached success, I was just shooting blind at the target hoping I was on the right path. It really motivated me knowing someone else who thought the same used it and reached success.

That being said... I'll be having copies to pass out to anyone who wants one. :)
 

Mr.Dietsch

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I suggest, even though it will be tough, trying to convince the kids that "don't read" to read this. Let's face it the kids you are talking to have been in school for 12years and probably are thinking they don't ever want to be forced to read a book again, hence them not going to college. So I suggest you think of a way to sell it to them, and explain to them that knowledge actually starts at the end of graduation. I think a lot of people think they hate reading because they have been forced most their life to open books that don't interest them in the least bit. So over time it just gets embedded that books suck and are boring. Why can I read books people have suggested on these forums about marketing so much easier than I can read my school marketing book. I think you should go out with a bang and tell these kids they are actually headed down the right path if they choose. I have always felt college is for mediocre people, the super smart and the super stupid do not attend college. The question remains are you in the super smart or super stupid category?
 

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With today's available resources, college is 10000000000% worthless for an entrepreneur.

Look at the opportunity cost here. 100-150k could literally buy you a lifetime of learning specific knowledge through books, mastermind groups, and seminars. College classes are vague bullshit. There is no way "business" can be taught. It must be learned through experience or specific medium like books. Not once was I taught how to file my taxes for my LLC and 1099 income at the end of the year in business school. I was never taught the most cost effective advertising mediums, how to cold call, how to network, how to pay employees, unfucking believably worthless. I spent over 100k to go to school. I have about 4,500 left on my loans, guess what, it has been so worthless I would sell my degree for $100 right now and throw it at the stupid a$$ loan. Seriously the #1 worst decision of my life to go.

The only think I know I learned was public speaking and I could have learned that for less than $100 in toastmasters apparently. I am feeling extra scammed today. I plan to write a book on this.
 
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dknise

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I suggest, even though it will be tough, trying to convince the kids that "don't read" to read this. Let's face it the kids you are talking to have been in school for 12years and probably are thinking they don't ever want to be forced to read a book again, hence them not going to college. So I suggest you think of a way to sell it to them, and explain to them that knowledge actually starts at the end of graduation. I think a lot of people think they hate reading because they have been forced most their life to open books that don't interest them in the least bit. So over time it just gets embedded that books suck and are boring. Why can I read books people have suggested on these forums about marketing so much easier than I can read my school marketing book. I think you should go out with a bang and tell these kids they are actually headed down the right path if they choose. I have always felt college is for mediocre people, the super smart and the super stupid do not attend college. The question remains are you in the super smart or super stupid category?

I just replied to a pm actually about that. I didn't read a single book in high school. Not one. It wasn't until after I got out of college that I started reading.

I have a powerpoint I'm preparing for these kids and the first thing in the speech is asking them why they're not going to college, what they think about learning, if they like to read, and where they're currently at. I watched my high school literally destroy the motivation and drive of students to learn who weren't going to college. The goal of my 2 hour presentation will be to get them excited about it again because they will be able to learn what they want to learn. If they walk in thinking "hell no!" and leave feeling empowered and thinking "hell yes!" I will have succeeded.
 

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I admit it there are times when I feel like I am wasting my time and money in college. I'll be having a bad day or I will be sitting in class and I'll just think to myself: "This is so F*cking stupid, the material is so dry and theoretically stupid".

But there are also times when I experience things in college that I would not have learned or experience outside of college.

For example I met my current girlfriend at the Entrepreneur Society as school. Shes perfect because she understands what Fastlane is all about. Hell she even has a profitable business because she invented a leg band for women for personal storage when they go clubbing.

And I sometimes learn little tid bits from classes that actually help expand my Fastlane mindset.

But I can totally agree that college is exponentially becoming more worthless as tuition rises out of control and as the market becomes more saturated with degrees making your degree worthless.

This whole idea of a college "safety net" is complete non sense. You would be better off to go straight into the workforce and save some money while educating yourself. Even if its at Mcdonalds. You are gonna work there after college, so you might as well start now.
 

dknise

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This whole idea of a college "safety net" is complete non sense. You would be better off to go straight into the workforce and save some money while educating yourself. Even if its at Mcdonalds. You are gonna work there after college, so you might as well start now.
I just got paid more money than most college grads are shooting for to go to a white collar software development job where everyday I had to learn how to do the job I was doing. The requirements for the job were a degree in Computer Science and 5+ years of experience with C#. I had 4 months when I took the job. During my time there, I watched 6 new college grads with CS get let go within a month of joining for being under qualified.

I'm a stronggg believer that minimum wage and non-discrimination laws hurt the people they are meant to protect. To take an unpaid internship that teaches you more in 6 months than you could with 4 years of college, you have to provide no net worth or value to the company. If you do anything that paid employee could do, they have to pay you the minimum wage. If you can find an employer that will let you work for nickels and dimes, DO IT. You might get to work with word class people for a world class entrepreneur and freaking get paid for it. You'll learn more in the year or two you work there and be getting paid for it. When the other option is to spend $35 / hour for courses taught by people not doing what they teach... it's a no brainer.
 
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socaldude

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If you are not gonna go to college:

1.Buy a cheap 4 cylinder asian car.

2.Get a job. Any job.

3.Grab a subscription at safaribooksonline.com ----you will be genius if you spend a lot of time there.

4.Save money.

Thats what I would do If i didn't go to college. but at this point in my life, i stlill don't know if my college experience is worth it or not.
 

MMatt

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On the subject of reading books, I was one of the kids who never read. I don't recall actually finishing one book in its entirety throughout high school. They wasted my time with fantasies and fictional bull that will get me nowhere. Now that I've graduated high school and read non fiction books to help me educate myself, it does not bother me to read a book every night because I know its applicable to my life.

I would personally love to hear your smack in the face talk to these high schoolers. No one had this mind set back when I was in high school. It was either work, go to college, or start a business with no demand and tons of competition based on selfish desires to own a business about "this" or "that". I can see teachers getting quite insulted and worked up because of the speech but hey, sometimes the truth hurts.
 

dknise

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I would personally love to hear your smack in the face talk to these high schoolers. No one had this mind set back when I was in high school. It was either work, go to college, or start a business with no demand and tons of competition based on selfish desires to own a business about "this" or "that". I can see teachers getting quite insulted and worked up because of the speech but hey, sometimes the truth hurts.
Haha let's just say it didn't go over too well with the councilor's, even though I did not present it as so "in your face."

Councilor: "You're a useless college dropout who has no future. No, I will not let you give these kids a false sense of hope. You don't even know what you're talking about and these kids are screwing over their future by not going to college."

Me: "My advice is telling these kids they do have a future. You've given up on them. You tell them they're worthless just like you're telling me that now. You're not only stealing their motivation and self worth, but their future. I'm here to give that back and quite frankly, I don't appreciate the insults. Why do you consider yourself qualified to get unknowing KIDS into signing loans for hundreds of thousands of dollars? You don't own a business, you don't make a substantial amount of money, and I doubt any of the kids you advise would want the life you have. I'm going to tell them to listen to the people who have they life they want. You sir, are not the person they should be listening to."

There were quite a few emails back and forth like this and I'm sure he'll be sitting there shitting himself during the whole thing hahaha.


oh ps: I am telling them that K-12 education is entirely necessary and worth it. It should prepare them to begin learning on their own though, which is not what's being pushed. I know these kids are excited about learning, so I want to put a spark in them when they realize they can do it on their own.
 
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dknise

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Man if you change one person's view your a winner.

Haha that's what I told them. Get 80 people in the room or 5, it won't matter. And if only 1 person sticks around, I'll be a happy camper.
 

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Not going to college is NOT the right advice for everyone. Most are not entrepreneurs. Some want to be lawyers or accountants.

On the flip side, being aware of the debt you take on is crucial.
 
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The-J

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A Slowlaner who leverages Fastlane techniques (he has a job but is also an investor and an entrepreneur) told me that school doesn't really matter all that much. I thought it was kinda funny hearing that from a Slowlaner.

Even for those who go to school, he says that people at his level graduated with all sorts of GPAs and that the guy who graduated with a 60 is sometimes higher paid than the guy who graduated with a 90.

Oh, Slowlane.
 

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50% of American kids that graduate high school don't go on to college.

50% of college freshman never graduate.

Nobody tells the kids these statistics. It's about time we started being honest.
 

The-J

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50% of American kids that graduate high school don't go on to college.

50% of college freshman never graduate.

Nobody tells the kids these statistics. It's about time we started being honest.

In high school, someone told us these statistics. It was an assembly or something.

My high schools stats were much, much lower. Something like 75% of kids who go on to college never graduated.

Vigilante: I have a question for you. No I did not read your book, so my question is probably answered there. If most kids who go to college never graduate, what would you recommend they do instead?

Thing about dropouts is, they often leave not because they are jaded with the ideas of college education but because they are lazy and simply don't wanna do the work. These kids, in my opinion, need the military or Job Corps and would totally not be suited to be entrepreneurs. What do you think?
 
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dknise

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Not going to college is NOT the right advice for everyone. Most are not entrepreneurs. Some want to be lawyers or accountants.

On the flip side, being aware of the debt you take on is crucial.

Cause the ONLY way to learn anything is to pay someone to teach you it? That's not the right advice for anyone. Get out of the gutter that college = knowledge because that couldn't be further from the truth. The kids I'll be talking to chose to not go on their own. I'm not going to walk into a room and convince them to go when I am whole-heartedly, fully in support of their decision.
 

dknise

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Thing about dropouts is, they often leave not because they are jaded with the ideas of college education but because they are lazy and simply don't wanna do the work. These kids, in my opinion, need the military or Job Corps and would totally not be suited to be entrepreneurs. What do you think?

I dunno about that. A lot of kids dropped out for the same reasons I did and I didn't know what I was going to do when I did. I trusted the Steve Jobs speech where he said follow your heart and the dots won't connect till years later.

Society tells people they'll be worthless without going, like my high school does. It's hard for people to succeed when they literally don't think there is any other option. There are tons of options.
 

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J - the book profiles 50 "Launching Points" --- or cool careers that don't require a college education. If you go to Amazon and scan the table of contents... you can see the 50 ideas. These are not exhaustive... meaning there are thousands of ways to answer your question. The purpose of the book was to get ideas turning outside of academia.

Go to Amazon and "Search Inside the Book" to see the table of contents, which page by page lists the 50 careers featured in the book... all of which require no 4 year college degree.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1450731171/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

All of those are simply ways to get some industry experience... get your feet wet. You shouldn't END there... but anyone could START there with no college degree. Gain some real world business experience... and then ultimately use that to blaze your own path.
 
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Vigilante

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Not going to college is NOT the right advice for everyone. Most are not entrepreneurs. Some want to be lawyers or accountants.

Society has the exact opposite problem. Nearly every high school in America only presents juniors and seniors with one path that leads through academia. The people that are the most impressed with college degrees tend to be...people with college degrees.
 

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Sure! I have a son in engineering school, and a daughter studying psychology. Both professions require a certain skill set, and a credential you can only gain from college. There are certain professions which require formal education.
 
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The-J

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Society has the exact opposite problem. Nearly every high school in America only presents juniors and seniors with one path that leads through academia. The people that are the most impressed with college degrees tend to be...people with college degrees.

I've noticed this too.

My high school was a vocational high school, where everyone had to choose a vocational area that they would be instructed in for three years (sophomore-senior years). Often times, students would get co-op positions while they went to school and were able to leave school after lunch to go work.

I never got that opportunity, partly due to the economy and partly because employers could already see I'd make a terrible employee (I've been rejected from every single job I've applied to, even McDonalds didn't want me). Getting a co-op position was highly dependent on what vocational area you were in. Those in the skilled labor areas would pretty much be guaranteed a job after high school (masonry, electrical construction, carpentry, etc) whereas the more 'advanced' ones such as nursing, computer engineering (my area), electronics and medical assisting would pretty much require a four year university degree.

Most people went to college anyway, but a lot of them would not graduate.

Recently, there's been a push from my school to have more kids go to college because they see that as the only way to get a job in this not-so-great economy.

It hasn't really worked all that well, although everyone seems to have a job. They just have crappy jobs, working in retail and things like that.

I wonder if there's anything to learn from this.
 

LamboMP

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Sure! I have a son in engineering school, and a daughter studying psychology. Both professions require a certain skill set, and a credential you can only gain from college. There are certain professions which require formal education.

this was the exact point I was trying to make lol :)
 

LamboMP

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Cause the ONLY way to learn anything is to pay someone to teach you it? That's not the right advice for anyone. Get out of the gutter that college = knowledge because that couldn't be further from the truth. The kids I'll be talking to chose to not go on their own. I'm not going to walk into a room and convince them to go when I am whole-heartedly, fully in support of their decision.

Good luck in being a Lawyer. You need a formal education in Law in order to become one. I'm in the gutter now? lol I never said College was fantastic, the only point I was trying to make is that somethings require a degree, end of story.
 
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theDarkness

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I went to college and liked it. Took some great classes with some great teachers. Met some great people. There are still some teachers that I wished I had the opportunity to work more with.

The main problem with college is that people expect way too much of it, or think that it entitles them to something. It doesn't do much for you materially unless you're on one of the tracks that requires certain credentials. But that doesn't mean it can't still be great.

I think it's important to poke holes the in College Myth that our society loves to tell to our kids, so that they can know exactly what they're getting in to. But the whole Crusade Against College on this forum is also kind of tiresome. A lot of it comes off as just bitter.

I mean really, if you went to college for four years and took a bunch of worthless classes that you hated, then you have no one to blame but yourself. No one made you take those classes. Take better ones. Go to a better school. Figure it out, man.
 

PatrickP

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The problem is a good deal of kids who say they don't want to go to college will NEVER have a successful business which leaves them uneducated competing for a job against other people who will crush them if the company prefers a degree, which is the majority of all companies.

I see NO reason not to 'waste at least 2 years and get your AA degree. Just go to a community college and also work so you don't have loans.

Then if your dream of owning your own business which is more probably than improbable, you have at least something to fall back on.

I cringe when I think what will be going on with these kids in 20 years. 40 years old no education, failed at business stuck in jobs WORSE than their 'stupid' friends who did the horrible thing of going and getting a college degree.
 

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