France - 75% tax for high earners!

[Kak]

If you are selling products your trucks (or shipping companies') are driving the roads more, causing wear to that infrastructure and also polluting. You're using natural resources to build your product, and that goes the same if you're in real estate, construction, etc. Your money is working in more exotic financial vehicles, requiring more regulation and oversight so that it is not stolen from you by bankers or nefarious hedge-fund managers. The list goes on and on.

This comes pretty close to the biggest load of crap I have ever read.

Roads? Guess who else pays taxes? All of the people YOU EMPLOY that directly use those roads. Here is a solution, privatize the roads.

Pollution? Really? So the government taking more money will somehow fix this? No way, it goes to the black hole.

Investments? The FDIC only insures deposits in banks. Courts hold up contractual agreements. Your "buying insurance" by paying taxes theory is bullshit.

 

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[BostonH]

Don't confuse proud with patriotic. I'm just saying that within the market, you must weigh the pros and cons. As I said we will see if entrepreneurs leave (or emigrate) en masse, they will have to decide if the benefits outweigh the negatives. Numbers don't lie.

 

[joona]

I like the competition aspect to a country too. Like in business most customers will go to the company that provides the most value for their money. Countries should be viewed exactly the same way. Entrepreneurs who are not brainwashed to be patriotic will simply realize this and leave. With them will also go the jobs.

I believe in just one or few decades this is exactly what will happen. Maybe not in the bigger countries, but in the small ones as they need to get more investments to provide jobs for people etc. One good example of this is Ireland, but obviously maybe they took it a bit too far...

Other example is Estonia, from a Finnish point of view. A huge number of Finnish SMEs are either investing or will invest in Estonia in the next 5 years. Many have already moved there (if I remember correctly there are about 5000 Finnish companies now in Estonia). The reason is simple: better corporate taxation, even 25% income tax (as far as I know), similar jurisdiction and services as well as physical proximity (only 80km from Helsinki).

 

[joona]

75% is way too much. Here in Finland they just decided to add a "temporary solidarity tax" for people earning more than 100000 euros a year. Currently the tax percentage of 100000/a income is 55% and they will now raise it a bit "temporarily". Just like in the fifties they added a "temporary" car tax which we still have today....

Of course the solution is not to cut anything from public sector. That is "only" about 55% of the GDP at the moment.. Of course, I like the free education and healthcare and in our cultural climate they make perfect sense, but there is so much unnecessary shit where tax money is being spent that it just makes me cry.

 

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[santa]

boston, SPEED ++
(i think I just gave you my first speed.)

Why? For bringing some original and valid thoughts that you wouldn't expect in an entrepreneurial forum.
Even with the bloated, legally corrupt governments that we now have, it's important not to forget in many aspects, (even in low social mobility areas) compared to the majority of the world we are LUCKY to live in the western world. With education opportunities and general stability.

Mike39, SPEED ++
For giving some inteligent arguments back!

And we are not even taking into account the fact that 99% of politics in this ridiculous country is completely corrupted by greed and personal gain

Unfortunately I agree with this from a UK perspective too. How much of our taxes go to frontline services and how much is spent on buerocracy and for the interests of private individuals. I have been shocked at this.
(It's why a pure socialist or free market economy actually are impossible imo, but thats another topic altogether.)


Also another point; I'm not sure about the details in the US and other countries. But in the UK, we now have what are called stealth taxes. So apart from being taxed on your income and then again when you spend it (with VAT at 17.5%) and National Insurance contributions (at about 11%), we have others such as inheritance tax too, where things you leave to your loved ones are taxed AGAIN after a certain value.

 

[Kak]

Why? For bringing some original and valid thoughts that you wouldn't expect in an entrepreneurial forum.

They are original because they are wrong.

My Nissan was made out of penguin shit on the moon is also an "original" thought.

 

[Autonomust]

Even here in the U.S., When you hit Fastlane income levels you are gonna be writing 6 digit or even 7 digit checks to the government every April 15!

I agree with Kak. People here in the U.S. think that earning lots of money is "unfair" or wrong as if it was the easiest thing in the world to build a million dollar business or work your way up the corporate ladder. People here want a better life but they have absolutely no clue how wealth is created via economics. "Just tax the shit out of it, distribute it, and we will all be well off!!"

The whole wealth distribution thing won't work like many people think it will.

 

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[santa]

They are original because they are wrong.

I don't agree with all in what he's saying, but there's truth to it. I'm not saying its right but most people in the developing wolrd would love to be in a western country even with the unfair and corrupt system that Mike39 talked about. It doesn't make it right, but does give some perspective.

 

[Brander]

We have a fundemental people problem in this country

People are people, the majority conform to the environment they are in, it's the same everywhere. Human beings like all animals maximize their input to output. Government's natural tendency is to grow larger and convert social power to state power, just like any other organism. The pipe dreams of shrinking government are historically fail in the long run. We are barely out of the jungle, so not using violence as an institution is still a long way away.

You are typically going to be better off when most of the people around you are better off. Not when a few neighbors are very very well off

Have you ever seen a poor person give high paying jobs to people?

I completely accept people have different opinions and act on them, right or wrong, do you also accept my opinion that the state is a class of people living off exploitation and theft, and to be able to act on it (i.e. not pay taxes if I don't want to and not be kidnapped and put into a cage for it)?

You can always support the state by personally paying extra money to them voluntarily, why also force it on to others?

If the majority of people wanted to give money to the government they would already be doing so, there would not be any need for laws to force them to. A law (an opinion with a gun) is by its definition something that goes against majority values as otherwise it wouldn't need to be a law, it would be happening spontaneously on its own.

 

[biophase]

In innumerable ways. If you are selling products your trucks (or shipping companies') are driving the roads more, causing wear to that infrastructure and also polluting. You're using natural resources to build your product, and that goes the same if you're in real estate, construction, etc. Your money is working in more exotic financial vehicles, requiring more regulation and oversight so that it is not stolen from you by bankers or nefarious hedge-fund managers. The list goes on and on.

Ok, so if I sell a product that makes, for simplicity sake, $1000/unit, and I sell 1000 of them, making $1,000,000, the 1001st unit I sell puts more burden on the nation's infrastructure than the first 1000 units. Therefore it should be taxed more.

Let me ask you this, would work go to work for 25% of your hourly rate now? What if after working 40 hours, overtime was 25% of your wage? Why should overtime be paid 1.5x?

 

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[Tiger]

If this goes into effect, I'm looking forward to France's already shitty economy plunging to the bottom and watching the Euro go with it.

I've had it with these socialist morons who can't grasp the simple principles of free markets, supply and demand and risk/reward.

The sooner we get to the bottom the sooner we can get back on track.

 

[Brander]

The sooner we get to the bottom the sooner we can get back on track.

The problem is "the bottom" historically lasts for decades and hundreds of millions of people perish of unnatural causes. When the going gets tough people don't turn to freedom, people turn to even more radically collectivist "strong leaders" and look for a scape goat.

The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33

and watching the Euro go with it

The bureaucrats in Brussels would rather see the above history repeat then let their pet "New Rome" EU project fail. The project depends on controlling the issuance of fiat currency and they will do absolutely everything in their significant power to keep it alive.

I've seen this as a child on a local level, so I know exactly where this is going.

 

[Kak]

The problem is "the bottom" historically lasts for decades and hundreds of millions of people perish of unnatural causes. When the going gets tough people don't turn to freedom, people turn to even more radically collectivist "strong leaders" and look for a scape goat.

The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33

Sooooo this begs the question why more people don't just go to a country that is on its way up!

 

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[Brander]

Sooooo this begs the question why more people don't just go to a country that is on its way up!

They are, mostly the astute ones that have the financial means to do so
But a permanent entry right now is difficult for others. It's easier to migrate as a refugee when the shit really hits the fan, as you can claim political persecution or war as a reason to get asylum.

However not many countries on the way up are free either and the more they develop the bigger their government and the pressures on freedoms will get. "Economic freedom under a statist system metastasizes the cancer of the state" (Stefan Molyneux)

There is not a single civilization in history where that has not happened - economic freedom --> more taxes for the state --> bigger state --> erosion of economic freedoms --> less tax revenue for the (now) large bureaucracy --> going into debt to finance the bureaucracy --> collapse

 

[Russell]

Remember kids: A Hong Kong Corporation can be registered by anyone for as little as $2kUS!

Fastlaners creating software/internet/international businesses should review the following benefits:

1) No corporate tax for all business conducted outside of Hong Kong.
2) Anyone can register a Hong Kong Corporation and bank account, no residency required.
3) Only get taxed on income you pay yourself and only in your country of residence. Have most your profit reinvested or invested in your company's name and pay no tax on it. Only pay yourself what you need to live.
4) When you come to sell your fastlane business, you simply need to move yourself to a tax haven for a few years to avoid those nasty capital gains, etc. No need to move your business entity! Just yourself.

It's significantly more complicated than this, but look into it NOW. It could save you millions in the future.

 

[Stridone]

What a loser's lament. The government uses taxes to keep your money safe, and to protect the lowest common denominator. You, if you are a high earner/multimillionaire, impose a much larger burden on the national infrastructure and therefore should have a higher burden to keep it intact. I am proud to pay the taxes I owe, and I will be more proud still when my tax rate goes up hopefully with increased income (though in the USA, capital gains are barely taxed). There is a reason France has the best healthcare system in the world and some of the happiest citizens. And this is coming from a proud American (generally a pretty jealous, France-hating country).

I agree. I don't really get the sentiments in this thread. Our society is built upon tax payers money, and many of you would not even be succesful if not for the basic equality our social systems provide. And that is not to detract from the hard work you have all put into your businesses, but I know that I, coming from a relatively "poor" family, would not have been able to pay for schooling and medical care if not for our awesome "socialist" system here in the Netherlands. It's very sad that some people in the United States have to work themselves to death for ridiculous medical bills while others have millions upon millions in the bank with hardly any tax being paid.

And no, I am absolutely not a socialist (and nor is Obama, if you think he is then frankly, you're very narrowminded and ignorant) and 75% is simply robbery. But I think in a 21st century society, we should look out for eachother, and people who earn more can afford to pay some extra tax to help those lesser fortunate. Because (and this might be considered heresy on the Fastlane Forum) not everyone who isn't rich is "lazy", most lesser fortunate people work their asses off too. There is still plenty of money to go around without anyone having to starve.

 

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[Kak]

Obama is by definition a socialist. As are you if you support wealth redistribution. You are probably some brainwashed college student. Tell me EXACTLY why I am narrow minded and ignorant.

People like you say rich people are selfish for keeping their money. Voting yourself someone else's money is somehow less selfish...

Whose being selfish here? I'm sorry, but you are a F*cking nutjob.

 

[Stridone]

Obama is by definition a socialist. As are you if you support wealth redistribution. You are wrong.

"Wealth distribution" is not socialism. Consider picking up a book sometimes.

People like you say rich people are selfish for keeping their money. What is selfish is to think that just because they are wealthy that the less fortunate should get to have their money. I'm sorry, but you are a F*cking nutjob.

People who support some form of social equality are "F*cking nutjobs" now? You sure are a bright one. To be honest, you sound like an average 18 year old teen who just read Ayn Rand for the first time and can only view the world in black and white. I'm saying people who earn more can pay relatively more taxes too, there are people in this world that get into very shitty situations beyond their control, and in my opinion we should strive for a certain level of wealth for everyone within our modern society. That is not to say complete redistribution of wealth or a ridiculous 75% tax bracket, but there is nothing wrong with progressive taxing. It is also healthy for the economy as it keeps the money flow going, since poorer people tend to spend a mucher higher percentage of their income.

 

[Kak]

"Wealth distribution" is not socialism. Consider picking up a book sometimes.



People who support some form of social equality are "F*cking nutjobs" now? You sure are a bright one. To be honest, you sound like an average 18 year old teen who just read Ayn Rand for the first time and can only view the world in black and white. I'm saying people who earn more can pay relatively more taxes too, there are people in this world that get into very shitty situations beyond their control, and in my opinion we should strive for a certain level of wealth for everyone within our modern society. That is not to say complete redistribution of wealth or a ridiculous 75% tax bracket, but there is nothing wrong with progressive taxing. It is also healthy for the economy as it keeps the money flow going, since poorer people tend to spend a mucher higher percentage of their income.

LMAO. I see you are a brainwashed college student.

People like you are the exact reason why I am leaving this country. I will be bringing the jobs with me too. Fair social justice comes in the form of capitalistic opportunity, not giving it to people for free.

 

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[Stridone]

LMAO. You are not worth talking to I see. You won't be here long.

I'm bound to stick around for a very long time actually, but good job avoiding the actual points in my post. Now go google "socialism".

 

[Vigilante]

The Netherlands is governed my a Monarchy. When you come into the 21st century, and get a fundamental understanding of what capitalism is, your viewpoints might have some shred of credibility. You are a kid, a subject in an archaic, failed caste system. There's a reason the Netherlands are nothing on an international scale. High income earners in your country pay in excess of 50% of their income in taxes so that you can have crappy health care, and evidently subpar education. There's a reason that when people of substantive wealth in the Netherlands get sick, they travel to the United States for their health care.

The United States is not built on taxpayer money. It is built on capitalism, entrepreneurism, and private industry. While you bow to your queen and worship the public good, you fail to understand that the United States has no royal class. We don't bow to any king, and we reject socialism and recognize that it has failed in every single instance... with it's natural progression being a dictatorship/monarchy such as the one you are subject to.

It's not expected you would understand capitalism from your limited base of knowledge. Hang around here for a while, speak a little less about subjects you lack knowledge in, and absorb what is likely to lead you to a better understanding of economics, wealth creation, and freedom.

 

[Kak]

I can just tell you can't be reasoned with. I know way to many idiots like you and frankly, it pisses me off more than it should.

It blows my mind that there are people out there that think taking money from someone because they are wealthy is OK. This is theft plain and simple. I do not care if the government is the one carrying it out.

 

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[Vigilante]

That it does, Kak. You need people like him that are content to work in the menial aspects of society for the good of the whole. He's content to live in a caste system... leave him there. You can't fix everyone, and when you determine that you are up against someone arguing from a limited knowledge base, the best you can do is move on. You don't have time to deal with trolls, and you don't have patience to deal with socialists. Both lead to the same ends, and both tend to be the same person. Move on.

 

[The-J]

This thread is getting political, fast...

Let's break it down a little bit better. How much of your own personal income are you willing to give to any centralized agency that promises certain protections? What protections would you be willing to give a slice of your pie for? Do the leaders believe in most of the same ideals that you do?

If you want to choose a country, do it that way. GlobalWealth can help you with that one. No one with any sort of money really has to live in any country they don't believe in. Our world is so small, it barely matters what country you live in anyway.

 

[Vigilante]

The United States could be self sustained with zero income tax, so that is the starting point. When we reach the point where we are giving billions of dollars to prop up governments of other countries that oppose the United States, so that we can access their resources which we're too stupid and too political to harvest on our own... there's a logical disconnect between taxation and representation.

Zero. That's how much direct income taxation there should be in the United States. Tax consumption if you wish. The infrastructure is built and can be maintained on a fraction of what we spend annually in ridiculous, superfluous pet projects for the preservation of votes and politicians careers.

The United States is on a slippery slope. It can heal itself, but only if she returns to the fundamentals on which the country was based. If we insist on following the trajectory we are on, it has a predictable outcome. That's why... a majority... of super earners in the United States are seriously considering other options, locations, and systems. We'll try and fix it, but if we can't fix it expect that we will leave her to her own devices.

 

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[Vigilante]

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." - Author Unknown

 

[Stridone]

The Netherlands is governed my a Monarchy. When you come into the 21st century, and get a fundamental understanding of what capitalism is, your viewpoints might have some shred of credibility. You are a kid, a subject in an archaic, failed caste system. There's a reason the Netherlands are nothing on an international scale. High income earners in your country pay in excess of 50% of their income in taxes so that you can have crappy health care, and evidently subpar education. There's a reason that when people of substantive wealth in the Netherlands get sick, they travel to the United States for their health care.

The United States is not built on taxpayer money. It is built on capitalism, entrepreneurism, and private industry. While you bow to your queen and worship the public good, you fail to understand that the United States has no royal class. We don't bow to any king, and we reject socialism and recognize that it has failed in every single instance... with it's natural progression being a dictatorship/monarchy such as the one you are subject to.

It's not expected you would understand capitalism from your limited base of knowledge. Hang around here for a while, speak a little less about subjects you lack knowledge in, and absorb what is likely to lead you to a better understanding of economics, wealth creation, and freedom.

Is this a joke? "Governed by a Monarchy"? Crappy health care and subpar education?

First of all our "monarchy" fulfills a strictly traditional role, they "govern" nothing. They are, to most people (me included) completely irrelevant. In fact, we are more democratic than that joke of a two-party system in the U.S.

The Netherlands has a higher GDP per capita than the US
List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Netherlands has one of the best educational systems in the world (how can you even begin to ridicule our education when your own country fails so miserably at it, see the amount of American people who still reject evolution for example)
World education rankings: which country does best at reading, maths and science? | News | guardian.co.uk


A much better life expectancy than the US
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And our health care system is recognized as one of the best in the world
http://www.medicalbillingandcoding.org/blog/top-9-health-care-systems-in-the-world/

And you probably know that the US is way ahead in health care costs
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-that-spend-most-on-healthcare.html

There's a reason that when people of substantive wealth in the Netherlands get sick, they travel to the United States for their health care.

Source please.

The United States is not built on taxpayer money. It is built on capitalism, entrepreneurism, and private industry. While you bow to your queen and worship the public good, you fail to understand that the United States has no royal class. We don't bow to any king, and we reject socialism and recognize that it has failed in every single instance... with it's natural progression being a dictatorship/monarchy such as the one you are subject to.

I've got news for you, we reject socialism too! Socialism has nothing to do with this, please educate yourself on the subject before attempting to act high and mighty. Even the "Socialist Party" (which is not even really socialist anymore) only gets 10% of the vote.

The reason the Netherlands are "nothing" on an international scale is because it's a tiny country with 17 million people in it. In fact, we are pretty important relative to our size.

I can just tell you can't be reasoned with. I know way to many idiots like you and frankly, it pisses me off more than it should.

It blows my mind that there are people out there that think taking money from someone because they are wealthy is OK. This is theft plain and simple. I do not care if the government is the one carrying it out.

I can't be reasoned with, yet you're the one calling me a "F*cking nutjob" and an "idiot" because I have a different view on some political issue. Grow up.

 

[theDarkness]

This thread sucks.

On this forum, we rightfully lambaste anyone who shows up repeating the typical "guru wisdom," the third-party expertise kind of stuff.

And yet in politics people feel like it's totally fine to toss around empty canards, make huge sweeping statements with no backing to them, etc. To me this is no better than repeating the "gurus." It's empty talk.

I'm glad politics isn't allowed on this forum.

 

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[Kak]

This message is hidden because Stridone is on your ignore list.
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Remove user from ignore list

I will leave the economic lightweight basket weaving major to his obnoxious theories. He undoubtedly has nothing of value to add to a business forum.

 

[Vigilante]

This thread should probably be closed. There's little to gain and almost zero insight here.