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RANT Formal Education is Overrated!(or not?)

msufan

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The medical profession is one of the most heavily indoctrinated by their education, and almost all with whom I have had dealings are scared to step outside the orthodoxy of what they have learned.

Walter
In fairness, with life-and-death stakes, I can understand why medical students would lean heavily on outside expertise.
 

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Walter Hay

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In fairness, with life-and-death stakes, I can understand why medical students would lean heavily on outside expertise.
Unfortunately, the fanatical adherence to the orthodox beliefs that have been embedded in their brains while studying at college is constantly being reinforced by the pharmaceutical industry, with the result that they become afraid to deviate.

I once had a GP who knew of my unorthodox approach to medical matters, and his son became desperately ill. Always careful to not offend, I casually mentioned an alternative treatment, and in desperation he seized on the information and applied it for his son. His son lived.

The practice nurse at a medical center saw me regularly, and also knew that I had an eclectic outlook, figuring that I should apply the best of both worlds. She recounted her mother's serious problem, the cause of which was nowhere near as major as mine, and I suspected she wanted to talk about my view on treatment.

I told her of a discovery that I had made while doing some pro bono research for a specialist with whom I was friendly. She gladly gave that non pharmaceutical treatment to her mother, with results that outshone the orthodox but unsuccessful treatment that her mother had endured for years.

I should add that I was born with a genetic problem which results in an average lifespan of 37.4 years, and rarely life beyond 50. I am now 80, having self medicated since being written off by one GP when I was 21, and later by one specialist. I nevertheless accepted pharmaceutical treatment when I deemed it to be the best option.

An eclectic approach can work, but qualified professionals need to remove their blinkers if they are to employ the best of both systems. Sadly that profession is a prime example of harm caused by college education.

Walter
P.S. I have practiced for many years as an unregistered naturopath and have never charged for my services. My specialist friend managed to arrange for me to receive medical journals and also access to research papers. I marvel when I see and hear medical professionals quote obsolete and clinically disproven medical "facts." Sorry if my RANT has hijacked this very interesting thread. Maybe my rant should be moved?
 
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Primeperiwinkle

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Unfortunately, the fanatical adherence to the orthodox beliefs that have been embedded in their brains while studying at college is constantly being reinforced by the pharmaceutical industry, with the result that they become afraid to deviate.

I once had a GP who knew of my unorthodox approach to medical matters, and his son became desperately ill. Always careful to not offend, I casually mentioned an alternative treatment, and in desperation he seized on the information and applied it for his son. His son lived.

The practice nurse at a medical center saw me regularly, and also knew that I had an eclectic outlook, figuring that I should apply the best of both worlds. She recounted her mother's serious problem, the cause of which was nowhere near as major as mine, and I suspected she wanted to talk about my view on treatment.

I told her of a discovery that I had made while doing some pro bono research for a specialist with whom I was friendly. She gladly gave that non pharmaceutical treatment to her mother, with results that outshone the orthodox but unsuccessful treatment that her mother had endured for years.

I should add that I was born with a genetic problem which results in an average lifespan of 37.4 years, and rarely life beyond 50. I am now 80, having self medicated since being written off by one GP when I was 21, and later by one specialist. I nevertheless accepted pharmaceutical treatment when I deemed it to be the best option.

An eclectic approach can work, but qualified professionals need to remove their blinkers if they are to employ the best of both systems. Sadly that profession is a prime example of harm caused by college education.

Walter
P.S. I have practiced for many years as an unregistered naturopath and have never charged for my services. My specialist friend manged to arrange for me to receive medical journals and also access to research papers. I marvel when I see and hear medical professionals quote obsolete and clinically disproven medical "facts." Sorry if my RANT has hijacked this very interesting thread. Maybe my rant should be moved?
Your rant should absolutely NOT be removed!! I want to hug you! I’m so glad you took your own medical care in your hands and can tell ppl about it! Well done sir! Well done!
 

James Klymus

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I think it's overrated when you don't know what you want to do, Which as a 17-18 year old kid, I don't know how anyone expects you to know what you want to do for the rest of your life.

So you end up going to a 4 year school for 5-6 years at $10-20k a semester, finance it and end up with $100k+ in student loan debt. All because you didn't know what you wanted to do. Maybe you even get a useless theater degree or liberal arts degree.

Then you're stuck paying off a mortgage sized student loan debt for the next decade plus, Probably working a job you could have gotten after high school.

Then it cripples your ability to risk, because you owe the government money and can't bankrupt it no matter what.

In my opinion it's better to go get a job at a restaurant, or work at a trade, or just get a full time job if you don't know what path you want to take. Get some real world experience and see how much having a crappy job sucks.

Even if you went to a community college and spent $1k a semester, id rather save that in the bank and use it for when I know what I want to do.

I'm not saying everyone should be an entrepreneur and drop out, most people don't want that. But I ended up wasting a lot of my parent's money just to fail classes and drop out of college. And college is one expensive way to "find your self"

As for people saying "college sucks and it's useless", I think it's because we're in a bit of an echo chamber here because we know of an alternative way to live life and make a living. Plus most of us will be biased to pay attention when we hear someone say college sucks, since a lot of us have taken a different path, and we want to justify our own choices and strengthen our own arguments.

School isn't good or bad, it's just a tool that some people use in the wrong way.
 
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Formal Education is not over-rated. It is required for your basic increment in knowledge. Quite important for personality development. Handling your life following some rules makes it easy going and worth the effort. People must meet some educational requirements to get a good job or start in a career.
 

Lenin

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In a time when the median price of a home in Manhattan is just over $1 million, according to real-estate website Trulia, experts say that being a millionaire no longer means that you’re rich.

Lmao, good luck with that. 1 mil? Maybe in Herlem next to a crackhouse.

America’s billionaires tend to also be among its most well-educated, recent research suggests. In “Investigating America’s Elite,” published in the journal Intelligence, Duke University psychologist Jonathan Wai found that billionaires are more likely than CEOs, judges, senators or House members to have attended colleges with the most rigorous admission standards

This is the part people leave out. Billionaires are highly educated; formal or otherwise.

Statistically those with a college education are more likely to be successful even in entrepreneurship. The stuff about 'college doesn't help entrepreneurs' is poppycock. You either need college or need a ton of self-motivation for self-education.

Harvard University has the No. 1 spot among the world’s universities for producing billionaires, according to Wealth-X, which ranked business schools in terms of number of billionaire alumni in a survey last January.
once I heard that instead of doing a master's or doctorate that will certainly cost you a lot, you could study a book called personal MBA; In this book, you promise that you can learn all the skills and knowledge you need and that they teach you in an MBA from a university.
As a second point on this topic, I recently began to learn a method called: JIT learning, which tells you that we should only learn as we need the specific knowledge for a specific case, because one forgets almost everything after a short time. Time to have studied. JIT learning means learning Just in time;)
 

ADayattheRoxbury

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I feel like another fad is to cite degrees that CEO’s have, as if that’s a good reason.

you need sales skills to start a successful company, not a diploma.

So if I have sales skills, yet know nothing about accounting, or how to continually increase my business’s valuation, i’ll be successful? Got it.
 

ADayattheRoxbury

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I think there are lots of ways for one to gain valuable relationships, technical knowledge and work ethic skills, but for me, college put all of those things into a really expensive package, that the government helps you pay for. The relationships I made in college, are still paying dividends today. I wouldn’t have forced myself to learn a lot of the topics that college forced me to learn but others might.

If you are good at networking, studying on your own and can put in consistent work without having someone force you to (or you get a bad grade) then you definitely don’t need college. But for me, the value was immense. In my opinion? Anyone who is going to a top 25 school in the US will have a leg up on someone who doesn’t. The closer you are to the top of that list, the better. It’s my opinion, but it’s based on the results I’ve seen.
 

Solid Snake

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So if I have sales skills, yet know nothing about accounting, or how to continually increase my business’s valuation, i’ll be successful? Got it.
so i need a diploma to learn accounting and how to increase business valuations?

got it
 

ADayattheRoxbury

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Was just responding to what you said about needing only to know sales to be successful in business. I think it's a huge part, but not the end all be all, anyways. We're getting off topic /methinks.
 

Solid Snake

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Was just responding to what you said about needing only to know sales to be successful in business. I think it's a huge part, but not the end all be all, anyways. We're getting off topic /methinks.
fair enough, i get what you're saying.
 

Ernman

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Formal Education is not over-rated. It is required for your basic increment in knowledge. Quite important for personality development. Handling your life following some rules makes it easy going and worth the effort. People must meet some educational requirements to get a good job or start in a career.
I hate to sound rude and don't usually come off so negative, but this just doesn't make sense to me. I agree that formal education is not overrated. But with serious caveats such as, you'd better have a damned good idea what you want to study and why. My dreams growing up required such an education - I got it, pursued and lived my dreams. But too many people have no idea what they want to do in life and go mindlessly into debt for no reason.

I also do not agree with the argument that it is "required for your basic increment in knowledge." I know and work with some brilliant people who engineer some amazing things but have NO formal engineering education. They just happen to be wired that way.

"Quite important for personality development"? Again, I'm throwing down the BS flag. Some of the most arrogant and entitled losers I've ever known had masters degrees and PhD's. On the other hand, some of the kindest and most honorable people I've known never finished high school (US high school).

"Handling your life following some rules"? I know some Marines who might argue this.

Lastly, "educational requirements to get a good job". Again, I don't agree. Yes, certain formal education does lead to a good start and good "job". But, I believe most fastlaners would agree that a good job is not necessarily a good thing. And, just on this forum alone, we can find examples of very successful people sans formal education or who succeeded in fields other than those they spent thousands of dollars to study.

Sorry - I kind of got off on a rant here. My bottom line is that there's nothing wrong with formal education. But only if it is has a well considered reason. It should be considered an investment. And like any investment there are risks - such as being worthless.
 

ADayattheRoxbury

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I hate to sound rude and don't usually come off so negative, but this just doesn't make sense to me. I agree that formal education is not overrated. But with serious caveats such as, you'd better have a damned good idea what you want to study and why. My dreams growing up required such an education - I got it, pursued and lived my dreams. But too many people have no idea what they want to do in life and go mindlessly into debt for no reason.

I also do not agree with the argument that it is "required for your basic increment in knowledge." I know and work with some brilliant people who engineer some amazing things but have NO formal engineering education. They just happen to be wired that way.

"Quite important for personality development"? Again, I'm throwing down the BS flag. Some of the most arrogant and entitled losers I've ever known had masters degrees and PhD's. On the other hand, some of the kindest and most honorable people I've known never finished high school (US high school).

"Handling your life following some rules"? I know some Marines who might argue this.

Lastly, "educational requirements to get a good job". Again, I don't agree. Yes, certain formal education does lead to a good start and good "job". But, I believe most fastlaners would agree that a good job is not necessarily a good thing. And, just on this forum alone, we can find examples of very successful people sans formal education or who succeeded in fields other than those they spent thousands of dollars to study.

Sorry - I kind of got off on a rant here. My bottom line is that there's nothing wrong with formal education. But only if it is has a well considered reason. It should be considered an investment. And like any investment there are risks - such as being worthless.
Without question, our educational system needs SERIOUS fixing to meet the needs of 21st century job market!

A) To become a Doctor (have 3 in my immediate family) you take 4 years of classes that have NOTHING to do with medicine. There is so much busy work, that is pointless and just there to have a place to put kids while their parents are working, which is an utter shame.

B) If you’re ahead of the class in terms of where your current knowledge lies, you are held back, rather than being able to test out and join more advanced classes

C) no child left behind was the WORST thing ever made. If a child can’t read or write properly, giving them a participation medal and putting them in a regular class, rather than a learning difficulties class, makes absolutely no sense. It hurts both the child, and the children around him.

D) We need to place a TON more emphasis on how money is earned in society, how to become a creator, rather than just a consumer. How to be a leader, rather than another worker bee.

Sadly, I think I’ll end up paying $12.5 to $29K per year for my child’s education... BEFORE college. Which is absolutely a travesty, but seems necessary if I want his/her learnings to be adaptable to his/her abilities.
 

kelvinfernandezm

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Formal Education is not over-rated. It is required for your basic increment in knowledge. People must meet some educational requirements to get a good job or start in a career.
Required for your basic increment in knowledge.

If you think knowledge can only be found in college your already limiting yourself. Where did people get knowledge before colleges existed?

People must meet some educational requirements to get a good job or start in a career

This board is not meant to find a job or a career but to start a business and become a millionaire. That's the context of asking if going to college increases those odds of hitting it big.
 

YoungPadawan

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For me, personally, I regret college. Though, I did learn some valuable things, but not in the way that you would expect.

1. It taught me to think critically to "game the system."
Colleges want to keep you "in the store" for as long as possible to keep milking you of cash. I tried to figure out how I could get out of college as quickly as possible.

Enter: DSST and CLEP exams.

Colleges don't readily advertise this, but you can test out of pretty much all of your generals through CLEP and DSST exams. (Though, it depends on how big of arseholes the admissions office is at your college, when it comes to accepting alternate sources of college credits.) It's even cheaper and faster than going to community college for your generals. Each test costs around $90 to test out of a class.
At my peak testing out phase, I tested out of 4 classes in one month, for about $90 per test/class.

There's an entire website devoted on how to do this at degreeforum.net

2. It reinforced my hatred for bureaucracies.
When I would talk to the admissions office about certain credits, they would beat around the bush, and groan at having to do the smallest amount of work - which made trying to test out of classes a pain. So what did I do?

Enter: Social engineering.

One day, before making a request at the admissions office, I picked up a box of doughnuts on the way there. When I arrived, I said, "I really appreciate everything that you all have helped me with, and I wanted to say thank you."

After that, I made my request, and guess what? I basically became their best friend after giving them the doughnuts, and they let me speak to the head of the admissions department about my request.

Food can be a powerful tool for influence.

At the end of the day, I personally see college as professors spoon-feeding you a textbook that you could have picked up at a library for free. If you lack the self-motivation to read books yourself, then by all means, go to college.

From a business point of view, though, colleges can be pretty valuable. A state college can pretty much be an R&D department for your business pretty cheaply, if you are willing to throw a few bucks their way for equipment. That's what a local business in my area has done very successfully.
 

Kevin88660

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Unfortunately, the fanatical adherence to the orthodox beliefs that have been embedded in their brains while studying at college is constantly being reinforced by the pharmaceutical industry, with the result that they become afraid to deviate.

I once had a GP who knew of my unorthodox approach to medical matters, and his son became desperately ill. Always careful to not offend, I casually mentioned an alternative treatment, and in desperation he seized on the information and applied it for his son. His son lived.

The practice nurse at a medical center saw me regularly, and also knew that I had an eclectic outlook, figuring that I should apply the best of both worlds. She recounted her mother's serious problem, the cause of which was nowhere near as major as mine, and I suspected she wanted to talk about my view on treatment.

I told her of a discovery that I had made while doing some pro bono research for a specialist with whom I was friendly. She gladly gave that non pharmaceutical treatment to her mother, with results that outshone the orthodox but unsuccessful treatment that her mother had endured for years.

I should add that I was born with a genetic problem which results in an average lifespan of 37.4 years, and rarely life beyond 50. I am now 80, having self medicated since being written off by one GP when I was 21, and later by one specialist. I nevertheless accepted pharmaceutical treatment when I deemed it to be the best option.

An eclectic approach can work, but qualified professionals need to remove their blinkers if they are to employ the best of both systems. Sadly that profession is a prime example of harm caused by college education.

Walter
P.S. I have practiced for many years as an unregistered naturopath and have never charged for my services. My specialist friend managed to arrange for me to receive medical journals and also access to research papers. I marvel when I see and hear medical professionals quote obsolete and clinically disproven medical "facts." Sorry if my RANT has hijacked this very interesting thread. Maybe my rant should be moved?
Dear you are 80 years old now, if I am not mistaken?
 

Walter Hay

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