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Jambla

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Found a product, found a supplier with good prices, communication and sample. Paid a 30% deposit for 200 units via Alibaba Trade Assurance. Supplier told me that I should pay 100% upfront as Trade Assurance holds the money until goods are shipped. I doubled checked this and its as not the case, I only paid 30% deposit, any funds sent via Trade Assurance are released to the supplier straight away not like an Escrow Service.

Units were made within 15 days. I arranged an inspection company for $108 to inspect my units, it took a few days for it to happen and they told me they could only test 150 units for that price. I have received a detail report with 24 minor defects and 1 major. The minor defects are loose thread, I cannot send products with loose thread to a customer.

My supplier said "There are not any quality issues because there is a normal phenomenon"

I told the supplier I need the thread to be tidy and if its not then its a quality issue.

He said "If you want the thread to be tidy then a co worker will have to cut it and this will be an extra cost. And you haven't tell me that the goods need to be checked"

I then asked him "Can you produce product in the future without this defect?"

He then said "Yes I can"

Obviously not very happy with that response. This is my first order and I am told that loose thread is not a quality issue and it will cost me get it rectified. Not only that he is saying that he didn't realize I was going to arrange an inspection, why should that matter? To top it all off he says he can produce product without this defect, so why is he palming off shit quality on to me?

I have agreed I will sort the loose thread out at my end. I will have to assess the future of this supplier, but I don't like the way he has dealt with our first issue. Being inexperienced with dealing with Chinese suppliers I have no idea how this compares to others? I am now awaiting delivery of my first 200 units.
 

Walter Hay

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If your 30% deposit was less than $1,000 you are not covered by Alibaba's Trade Assurance scheme, even if you requested it and the seller agreed. If you pay the balance before shipment, as suppliers almost invariably require, that balance is not covered.

If you raise a dispute, you will be required to have another intersection done before shipment. Alibaba specify that you must use SGS, and that will cost you several times as much as you paid for your partial quality inspection.

I have posted in detail on the subject of Trade Assurance. See here: Sharing my lifetime experience in export/import. Product sourcing specialist. and you might like to search for my other posts on the subject also. For the benefit of others who might read this thread, I would like you all to know that Trade Assurance is full of loopholes, and at the very least you should look at the explanation that I have posted on my AMA,

Regarding your quality issue, I don't know what product you are buying, but there are many types of product in which stitching or embroidery leave loose threads, and if you don't want them left on the item, you should specify that with your order. It is standard practice for manufacturers to charge extra for that very labor intensive service.

Walter
 

Jambla

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Hi Walter thanks for dropping in. Yes trade assurance isn't without its flaws but it seemed like the safest way of paying for my first shipment on Alibaba. Regarding the $1000 minimum covered amount, this was removed and there is no minimum amount anymore. The pre shipment inspector took photos of all my units with branding on, so I am hopeful they will be sent!

The loose threads is something I wasn't expecting but may well be an industry standard as you suggested. At least I know now and can stipulate this in my next order.

I think I will purchase your book shortly, no doubt it will be a gold mine of information with experience you have!
 

Walter Hay

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Hi Walter thanks for dropping in. Yes trade assurance isn't without its flaws but it seemed like the safest way of paying for my first shipment on Alibaba. Regarding the $1000 minimum covered amount, this was removed and there is no minimum amount anymore. The pre shipment inspector took photos of all my units with branding on, so I am hopeful they will be sent!

The loose threads is something I wasn't expecting but may well be an industry standard as you suggested. At least I know now and can stipulate this in my next order.

I think I will purchase your book shortly, no doubt it will be a gold mine of information with experience you have!
Thanks for pointing out the change regarding minimum order value to qualify for Trade Assurance.

Alibaba are constantly changing the rules, and it is hard to keep up with all those changes. They have even changed the name of the document. It was previously Trade Assurance Terms and Conditions, but is now Trade Assurance Rules. As before, it is very complicated, and is not well presented, containing ambiguities, contradictions, and even basic typographical mistakes.

One amusing mistake relates to penalties imposed on sellers who breach the rules. If they do it once in a year, the penalty is a warning. If they do it "Twice or less" the penalty is that the seller will be barred from the Trade Assurance scheme for 90 days.

One of the most important rules to keep in mind is that your pre-shipment inspection is not good enough to substantiate a claim. You will be compelled to pay for an inspection by a service nominated by Alibaba. Closely connected to this issue is the specifications you include in your order. You must provided detailed specifications, otherwise Alibaba's nominated inspection company will only judge the quality based on "relevant industry standards", and those standards might not be what you would regard as good quality.

Another important thing to note is that you can choose between Trade Assurance up to Shipment Date and Extended Trade Assurance until Arrival at Port/Place of Destination. The former only covers your deposit (assumimg it does not exceed the seller's available amount) but the latter covers the full amount, if within the seller's Trade Assurance limit.

If you lodge a dispute, beware of the seller appearing cooperative, but procrastinating with promises until your dispute deadline expires.

Finally, for those who like the comfortable feeling of paying with a credit card, bear in mind that there is a fee of 2.8% for that privilege. Depending on the amount, escrow.com would charge less.

Walter
 

Jambla

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My goods arrived into the UK and were released once I paid my import taxes upfront. I phoned FedEx twice and stated that I will collect my boxes from the depot and do not deliver to my address. Despite this my consignment was attempted to be delivered while I was at work and the driver left 7 boxes weighing 20kgs each at my neighbour’s house. Not good enough really but it saved me a trip to the depot and worked out ok in the end.

I didn’t appreciate how long it would take to quality check all the stock and it’s taken me hours just to check 20%. The results have not been good, from the 40 checked, 6 are missing components that make up the kit. Not a good start at all, it makes me wonder if the pre inspection company really did check 150 units. It also give me serious doubts about using this supplier again.

I can’t wait to get all these boxes out of my living room and to Amazon FBA to start selling them. Which reminds me, ironically I live a few miles from the FBA centre but it seems like I will have to pay for a courier to send my goods to FBA!
 

Tapp001

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Good luck @Jambla! Thank you for sharing your story with the forum. There is alot of value here, and I am following with interest!
 

Jambla

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Thanks Tapp001 If I can share my journey with the forum then perhaps I can repay back some of the value I have extracted here. I’ll explain in a bit more detail what I am doing

I found a category on Amazon that sells quite a lot of units and has a decent amount of traffic. I know this because I tracked a few products sales. It’s as easy as putting 999 in your basket and Amazon will tell you how many the seller has left in stock, providing they don’t have more than 999 units in stock. Using that method you can track sales over days. I also did keyword research on google to understand how many people are searching for this type of product and I could see the market had potential. Assessing the competition on the first page of amazon I felt there was scope for me to make it on there.

My product is a fitness product and I am differentiating from the competition by adding components that other sellers don’t. I had my girlfriend take pictures of me modelling the product and I used a freelancer to cut the background out of 40 pictures. The pictures look professional and I am using them for my listing and instructions manual. The instructions manual that comes with product is dreadful. I created my instruction manual in adobe InDesign and paid a printing company to print them.

I feel that the images for the listing are very important. I have spent a lot of time on these images and I am very happy with them. I used Photoshop to create my images.

While waiting for my product to be made I setup a Facebook page aimed at my target audience and got 3,500 likes. My advert for likes went very well and I was getting a like for $0.04. I am not really sure how valuable a Facebook page is worth as your post as when you create a post it doesn’t reach all your members. I also ran a lead generation campaign on Facebook to capture emails advertising my product, costing me $0.61 an email address.
 

Jambla

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Things are moving slow. No sales yet, no one has found my listing.

I need to turn on PPC to get me up the rankings but I feel like I need some reviews.

My girlfriend did a review from her account from a different IP address but it was removed, I am guessing because we share the same billing address. I waited a couple of days and got my friend to do a review and that has stayed on. I am now considering asking friends and family for reviews and see if I can get it up to 15 reviews. After Amazon removing my first review I am apprehensive to have my friends review my product in a short space of time!

My other option is a giveaway but I am not sure I want to do that.
 

Jambla

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Decided to give away 10 units to get some reviews. A reviewer has contacted me to say that she has received the wrong item but it has my label on. Not a great start, I am going to post her a new one from the post office today. I am not really sure the best way to resolve this issue in FBA but I figured if I can get one out quickly to her I will still get a good review.

I did notice some of my items were in 'reserve' in FBA inventory the other day and 2 are 'warehouse damaged'. Not sure if that is related. I phoned customer support up but its based in India, very hard to understand what the operative was saying to me. I hope my other reviewers don't get the wrong items!
 

Jambla

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2 of my reviewers received wrong items so far. One reviewer emailed me to say he had a faulty part. He hasn't left me bad feedback yet and I emailed him back straight away to say I will be sending him a replacement so hopefully he still gives me a good review.

I have shot up to page 3 of my keyword, it seems using a super URL for my coupon code worked. When I get my reviews and turn on PPC I think I can make it to the first page quickly.
 
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InspireHD

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Just curious, how are people receiving the wrong item?
 

Jambla

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Just curious, how are people receiving the wrong item?
Amazon FBA have mixed up my item with another, even though I pre labeled all my stock. I have no idea what is going on at Amazon but its all out my control.
 

Jambla

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I have started to make sales. I gave away 10 units at discount on and that boosted me up the rankings.

I have had 22 sales in 18 days , 4 from PPC. Now up to 11 reviews on my product. After playing with PPC I think my profit margins are too low for PPC to work on a tight budget. On my product at the moment after all fees I am only getting 10% profit on my £19.99 product. I have 150 units left. I was thinking about ordering my next batch via sea where I feel I could achieve 30%. I feel that the key to me ranking higher is PPC and at the moment its too expensive on my profit margin, granted my PPC is not optimized yet but its my gut feeling. I think i may start to research a more profitable product in my niche and change direction.
 

HoneyBadger

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I have started to make sales. I gave away 10 units at discount on and that boosted me up the rankings.

I have had 22 sales in 18 days , 4 from PPC. Now up to 11 reviews on my product. After playing with PPC I think my profit margins are too low for PPC to work on a tight budget. On my product at the moment after all fees I am only getting 10% profit on my £19.99 product. I have 150 units left. I was thinking about ordering my next batch via sea where I feel I could achieve 30%. I feel that the key to me ranking higher is PPC and at the moment its too expensive on my profit margin, granted my PPC is not optimized yet but its my gut feeling. I think i may start to research a more profitable product in my niche and change direction.

How did you find the people for the discounted units you gave away?
 

Jambla

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How did you find the people for the discounted units you gave away?
Amz tracker - review club. They have a review system where you put your offer out there and people apply for the coupon. The good thing is you get to approve who you want to review your product so can check out the reviewers Amazon profile and decide if you want them to review your product.

I used the Amz Tracker 2 week free trial which was long enough for me to get my product reviewed.
 

Jambla

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I have an idea for a product I am unsure whether to use FBA or Merchant Fufill and wondered if I could get some opinions?=.


FBA

35% Profit Margin

Delivery would only be free to Prime members. I believe it would cost £3.99 for postage to my customer if they’re not a prime member.


Fulfilling my self

40% Profit Margin

Free delivery to customers


There are competitors who offer more for the same price I am proposing. They are self-fulfilled, I believe their margins are very thin and they certainly wouldn’t be able to afford PPC. I believe I can make my listings a lot more appealing than theirs.


Do I use FBA to appeal to more customers but my concern would be the postage £3.99 Amazon charge to non Prime members. If I fulfil myself I can post these out myself and give all customers free postage.
 
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JokerCrazyBeatz

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I'm DEFF taking notes from this thread , I plan to soon start importing
 

Omega

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Jean-Pierre

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Supplier told me that I should pay 100% upfront as Trade Assurance holds the money until goods are shipped. I doubled checked this and its as not the case, I only paid 30% deposit, any funds sent via Trade Assurance are released to the supplier straight away not like an Escrow Service.
First red flag

I have received a detail report with 24 minor defects and 1 major.
Second red flag

...And you haven't tell me that the goods need to be checked
Third red flag!

And then I wasn't surprised when you said this:
The results have not been good, from the 40 checked, 6 are missing components that make up the kit.
I was hoping the manufacturer wasn't going to be a dick but looks like they were. There are so many manufacturers out there you don't need to stay with one, even if another is a little more expensive it's worth it once you factor in the units you can't sell and the time you need to spend checking.

Use your intuition and when things don't feel right then they're probably not.

Amazon FBA have mixed up my item with another, even though I pre labeled all my stock. I have no idea what is going on at Amazon but its all out my control.
This seems unlikely - If it keeps happening, I'd suggest recalling all your stock re-checking them and then sending them back in. I realise this will cost you money but if you do start selling more units because you're ranking better then more people will get the wrong product, return the item, give you a bad review and a high chance Amazon will shut down your account. Not really worth it at this stage.
 

Jambla

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@Jean-Pierre . I agree. But being a first a timer I am not sure if that is just the way Chinese suppliers are! In the end there were 6 kits missing parts and they just happened to be in the first batch I checked. Regarding the stock mix up - I really didn't want to recall my whole stock, that is what Amazon suggested. I have sold quite a few units since and the problem hasn't cropped up again.

I have sold exactly 3 units a day for the last 5 days. I have turned on PPC and started to collect data, my daily budget is relativity low. I know that my listing is converting around 12%. I have 138 units left and I am thinking about my next order. This time is going to have to by sea, I spent way too much on Air Courier. I am considering borrowing some money to buy 600 units, need to get a move on as it will probably take 60 days to get to me from the moment I order.
 

CSRelentless

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Found a product, found a supplier with good prices, communication and sample. Paid a 30% deposit for 200 units via Alibaba Trade Assurance. Supplier told me that I should pay 100% upfront as Trade Assurance holds the money until goods are shipped. I doubled checked this and its as not the case, I only paid 30% deposit, any funds sent via Trade Assurance are released to the supplier straight away not like an Escrow Service.

Units were made within 15 days. I arranged an inspection company for $108 to inspect my units, it took a few days for it to happen and they told me they could only test 150 units for that price. I have received a detail report with 24 minor defects and 1 major. The minor defects are loose thread, I cannot send products with loose thread to a customer.

My supplier said "There are not any quality issues because there is a normal phenomenon"

I told the supplier I need the thread to be tidy and if its not then its a quality issue.

He said "If you want the thread to be tidy then a co worker will have to cut it and this will be an extra cost. And you haven't tell me that the goods need to be checked"

I then asked him "Can you produce product in the future without this defect?"

He then said "Yes I can"

Obviously not very happy with that response. This is my first order and I am told that loose thread is not a quality issue and it will cost me get it rectified. Not only that he is saying that he didn't realize I was going to arrange an inspection, why should that matter? To top it all off he says he can produce product without this defect, so why is he palming off shit quality on to me?

I have agreed I will sort the loose thread out at my end. I will have to assess the future of this supplier, but I don't like the way he has dealt with our first issue. Being inexperienced with dealing with Chinese suppliers I have no idea how this compares to others? I am now awaiting delivery of my first 200 units.


I feel like the safest thing to do and what I am doing at the moment is getting a list of 5 or more suppliers that have the product I want then I get price quotes and check there communication, then narrow it down to 1 and get a sample order of maybe 5 pieces shipped via express shipping, usually only takes 4-5 days to receive samples and then you can check the quality, if the quality is shit then find another supplier. Is there a reason you ordered 200 units to start off with?, or did you get samples orders before, seems like a big risk to take even if the supplier has good prices, and communication etc, cause what it comes down to is the quality once you receive it, because from what I've learned the hard way alibaba, dhgate, alieexpress, ranks and reviews, gold supplier,etc.... all that bullshit doesn't matter for the most part, you just gotta take a chance but if I am going to take a chance I would rather it be a small investment so it doesn't break me, unless your loaded then f*ck it lol
 

Jambla

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@CSRelentless I messaged about 30 suppliers and had about 5 samples from different suppliers, the company I ordered from I got 3 different samples. I ordered 200 units and paid a 30% deposit through Alibaba trade assurance and then had a company inspect the goods. If the report was really bad I wouldn't have paid the balance and my initial deposit was still protected.

200 units seemed like a good amount as I thought it would give me enough time to re order via sea. I hoped the product would sell as its a popular niche, I just wasn't sure how quickly. With PPC on I will run out of units quite quickly but my profit will not be great. Now my product is validated I plan to order a larger amount and via sea which will give me greater profit margins allowing me to crank up the PPC without making a loss, which in turn I hope will rank me higher organically.
 

CSRelentless

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@CSRelentless I messaged about 30 suppliers and had about 5 samples from different suppliers, the company I ordered from I got 3 different samples. I ordered 200 units and paid a 30% deposit through Alibaba trade assurance and then had a company inspect the goods. If the report was really bad I wouldn't have paid the balance and my initial deposit was still protected.

200 units seemed like a good amount as I thought it would give me enough time to re order via sea. I hoped the product would sell as its a popular niche, I just wasn't sure how quickly. With PPC on I will run out of units quite quickly but my profit will not be great. Now my product is validated I plan to order a larger amount and via sea which will give me greater profit margins allowing me to crank up the PPC without making a loss, which in turn I hope will rank me higher organically.

Oh alright that clarifies things, sounds like you got a plan.
Are you only selling on amazon?
 

Jambla

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Its been a while. I sold my first 200 units, after giving away units for reviews and experimenting with PPC i broke even. I took my foot off the gas as I got married in the summer and had to organise the wedding and honeymoon. I ran out of units for about 3 weeks.

I lost my sales momentum but its slowly building back up. Any one that thinks its easy to import your own product, brand it and sling it on Amazon is wrong. It takes a lot of work. What I am finding difficult now is that my niche is even more competitive, the main keyword i use for PPC has doubled in cost meaning its eating up my most of profits if I i use that keyword.

I have changed my focus onto getting my conversion rate up. I re did all my product images, my images were to an ok standard but this time I spent a long take making them look 100% professional. I wasn't too bad with Photoshop before but I am a lot better now. In the last few days after changing my images my conversion has gone up noticeably.

Now i need to find some creative ways of getting cheaper traffic to my listing.
 

minirich

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the main keyword i use for PPC has doubled in cost meaning its eating up my most of profits if I i use that keyword.
Can you come up with other keywords (long tail) which together get the same volume, but the cost is lower?
Try to get diversified with your keywords, this will not give you that big a hit if a price hike occurse (as you have already seen).
 

Jambla

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Can you come up with other keywords (long tail) which together get the same volume, but the cost is lower?
Try to get diversified with your keywords, this will not give you that big a hit if a price hike occurse (as you have already seen).
I need to keep learning PPC. I have one main keyword that is my seed keyword - it converts well but the competition has pushed the price up of that word. In the last 7 days since optimizing my listing my conversion rate is 13.5%. I am going to give it another shot with an exact match campaign.

I haven tried a manual campaign where I provide a big list of keywords yet. I have used a free tool and generated 450 keywords using my seed keyword as a 'stuff' word. I am not sure whether I should use broad, phrase of exact, so I will run all 3 at the same time and see what happens.
 

Jambla

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Im about break even on Amazon sales. Currently paying £1.50 ($1.90) per click, its wiping out all my profit but at least I am shifting my stock. I am struggling to find a cheaper way to advertise in a very competitive niche.

I am going to branch out into my own online store. I think staying just on Amazon is very one dimensional and I am beginning to become familiar with this niche, I know the demand is there. I will be able to set the website up my self, initially I am thinking of selling some of my own products and using amazon fba multi channel fulfillment and to add drop ship items.
 

minirich

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Im about break even on Amazon sales. Currently paying £1.50 ($1.90) per click, its wiping out all my profit but at least I am shifting my stock. I am struggling to find a cheaper way to advertise in a very competitive niche.
1.5/1.90 that is a pretty slim margin, especially if it is eaten by marketing costs.
Can you do something on the price you are paying for the product. Different vendor/producer, higher volume discount,...?
Sometimes chinese sellers pose as producers, and in reality they are just a man in the middle.
If you have someone locally who you trust, try to arrange that he could visit the factory.
If your seller refuses, he is probably just another vendor.

The worst thing i heard was that there were 3 vendors between the producer and the buyer, almost quadrupling the price.
 

mazo

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Jambla
Thanks for keeping us update on this. Have been watching your journey all the way, break even is far better than any lost.

Jesus! You've learned and done a lot in the last six months, bet if you turned and looked back you could't see your start line.
 

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