Fed up with your country and people? Where is left to live in peace in 2022.

[JasperDeMuynck]

Any ideas? My first bet was the Canary Islands. I was even looking for a home there in La Palma Luckily I did not find anything My main objection is that it relies on others too much, hard to travel from, so I'm moving toward continental Europe. Are any people in Spain right now? I was thinking about Malaga, for example, any experience? I like that city is close to the city and mountains, has a big airport, far from nuclear plants, I do not feel that anybody would like to fight over it. But it is still close to all those war opened countries. I'm not sure also how are politics in Spain? How the restrictions, mandatory jabs, and all that was? What is the situation of food supply and freshwater out there? Water quality in general? I was also thinking of Switzerland but now I'm more toward the sun than winter. I was considering Thailand, but because of the geopolitical situation with Taiwan, this region will be hot as well for sure now or in the future.

Switzerland is actually amazing in the summer. Would highly recommend! Going there myself this summer too.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[McAdam]

Any ideas? My first bet was the Canary Islands. I was even looking for a home there in La Palma Luckily I did not find anything My main objection is that it relies on others too much, hard to travel from, so I'm moving toward continental Europe.

I actually moved to the Canary Islands in 2019 (Fuerteventura) - preC - after spending a few months in La Palma.
Im happy to jump on a call with you to share my experience but here are some key points:

Spoiler: Each island is wildly different

Last week we went car camping to Gran Canaria, and we're shocked at how different it is from us. Not just the landscape but also how its run and how the people are.

- Covid restrictions
During Covid, this island only had mask mandates for if you are within 1.2 meters of other people or indoors. This has now been lifted.
Other islands had restrictions requiring showing vaccination passes before entering any business :O

- Buildings
Most islands had open building planning regulations, meaning there's buildings everywhere, some with 20 floor. Here, You're only allowed to build within the city limits, and up to 2.5 floors above ground. In exceptional cases you can build 3 floors.

- Beaches
Some of the other islands are on the "Top 20 beaches in the world" but you go and its packed 7 layers deep of people.
Here we have an insane number of pristine beaches, and there's always space to be directly at the water.

- Restrictions and Tourism
The island is open an wild, as an avid off-roader this is heaven to me. See a hill in the distance with what looks like a track; drive there and become king of the hill - whilst on the way to the supermarket.
In Lanzarote, everything is "Go here, you can't go here" pay to enter to a viewpoint, someone directing you where to park... Not the freedom I like.
In Gran Canaria, all offroad tracks are locked off, you can only take them if you know the locals and they like you.

- Camping
Most of the islands require you to only camp in official camp grounds that require visiting an office in a town for permission.
Even sleeping in your car is fined.
Here, go and be free, they really done care. There's an army of remote workers in camper vans dotted all across the coast, working for a few hours then walking 10 minutes to the beach to catch some waves.

Spoiler: Shopping and Supplies

Yes, there is no next day amazon prime, but amazon does work (for items sold by Amazon) and deliveries vary between 1 and 4 weeks. Amazon is opening a distribution hub here soon.
AND, there's tons of local businesses who can ship to you within a couple of days (or next day depending on the island)
I discovered that sometimes it just needs a bit of research to find the places, and I now have a big database.
Recent purchases (with delivery times): MacBook Pro 16" M1 Max (6 Days), Xiaomi M1 Ultra (22 Days), Solar battery kit for camping (same day pickup + 3 days for ordered items), Most tech electronics (7-10 days from a few websites)

Yes, sometimes you can't get exactly what you want, but there's always ways.
There's also a Parcel Forwarding service that sends you stuff from the mainland.

Spoiler: Self Reliance

This is an interesting one, because for each person it has a different meaning.

We have a large agricultural economy on the islands. La Palma is the biggest supplier of Bananas to the rest of the mainland (as an example).
But we grow everything here! I try to buy local whenever possible, and its taught me about the seasonality of fruit and vegetables. Yes you can't get strawberries in the dead of winter, but that adds fun!

Most of the European countries actually import more food than they produce, so everyone is reliant on someone else.
Nowhere in Europe is self reliant. But here we are relatively close.

There's two sources of water on the islands; Desalinated water for houses, and spring water for bottles.
I get my bottled water delivered every week from one of the biggest springs on the islands (Terror).

We also have an amazing climate for growing food - with moderate temperatures all year round!

Spoiler: Power and Internet

Most of the islands have Gigabit Fiber in the larger towns, on Fuerteventura even the smaller towns have it (due to ease of laying the cables)
I pay €99/m for Gigabit fiber, and 3 SIM cards with 20GB of EU and US roaming, 1000 minutes of EU calls, and 5G unlimited Data - even though there isn't really any 5G here.

For power; this is a hard one. Most of the islands have giant diesel plants - mostly because of the terrain.
But here on Fuerteventura they didn't get an electricity grid till the 70s, and so they have a diesel plant but TONS of wind and solar energy.
Where I live, we are powered 70% by renewables most of the year, in summer it actually goes as high as 82%.
And for where we are, the solar investment is worth it - the highest rated place for solar in Europe.
€15k investment in some solar panels and LiFePO4 batteries and you don't need anything from anyone!

Spoiler: Business and Taxes

If you run a certain type of business, you can qualify for something called a ZEC company.
This effectively sets your corporate tax rate at 4% - with discounts up to 45% for specific activities.
In film or specific tech? 2.2% corporation tax... up to unlimited revenue.
There are some conditions attached, such as investing €50k (or €100k on specific islands) in fixed assets within 2 years, and hiring 3 local (to the islands) people within 6 months.
The unlimited revenue is interesting. You have a set limit, but for each additional person you hire they give you another €500k of allowance.

If you're not yet wanting to register a business, then set up as a freelancer with fixed 20% rate.

For local Talent... There's a lot of digital nomads, and TONS of locals. Since there's a large Expat Population, you'll find people speaking most European languages and people with all kinds of experience.

For the locals, there's some gifted people here who NEED a good opportunity to grow and expand. Im talking coders, media people, support, accounting..... And the average salary is about €1200-€1500 per month...

Its also an amazing work life here. I can work remotely from the top of a mountain!
Which is why I converted my car to a mobile office/camper!

Spoiler: Cost of living

Its funny seeing some people talk about renting in somewhere really remote for $500-$700 - for me that's crazy.
I pay.... €500 per month (pre paid for 2 years) for a 3 bedroom villa with a swimming pool close to one of the best towns for shops and restaurants.
You can find meals for less than €10 in lots of places, and even sandwiches at restaurants for €2.5-3.5
Yes there's nicer places where you can spend €30 per person, but ive never spent more than €50 pp even at the best places.

Everything is so cheap here, I buy whole salmon for between €7-9 per kilo... Blue Fin Tuna for €4-5 per kilo...

Hell, when I first moved here I rented a car... for a whole year.... and paid just €375 per month and swapped cars (VW Golfs, Nissan Juke, Toyota Aygo, etc.)every single month!

BUT!
Due to Covid, a lot of people came here and it got a bit busier. There's so many Digital Nomads that the prices for rent went up a bit... My brother has been looking for a place for 1 month.

Spoiler: Health and Healthcare

Even though the endless sunshine does wonders for health, you still have to ensure that you are backed up.
We have state insurance and Private insurance.

The state insurance is OK, but we like the convenience of Private.
There's one major state hospital on this island, 25 minutes drive away in the capital. They have almost everything. For the things that they don't have they'll airlift you to another island.

We like private because it allows us to find any doctor we want, someone who speaks English, and get an appointmentent within a week.
We pay, and get reimbursed 90%
Costs us €150/m for two adults.

State insurance would mean battling with Spanish and trying to find appointments.

We have found some good DRs close to us for 90% of what we need!

Spoiler: Travel and Remoteness

We are remote - minimum 2-3 hours from mainland Spain and about 4 hours from most European capitals.
BUT, we are a tourist destination and that means that I can fly from here to London 4 days a week for about €30-€40 return with RyanAir.

There are direct flights to most European capitals, multiple times per week.

But if shit hits the fan - we are far from the chaos and the insanity.

IF you need to travel often, maybe its not the best place - but if you don't its an amazing location.

Spoiler: Why I am here for life

I was born a raised in London, left in my early teens and lived in: Berlin, Nicaragua, Panama, Cairo, Moving around Italy, Some time in Albania and surrounding area.
I lived in a lot of places... but this was the first one that didn't have negatives.

We are remote but local. There's great weather all year. On this island people are so relaxed and chilled that we regularly laugh at the world.

This was the first place I found that I called HOME. We're planning to buy land and build here, that it... I arrived.

 

[Jeannen]

That might just be my new favourite covid restriction. I would love to see the science behind that.

Hahahaha, welcome to Indonesia

 

[OneManWolfPack]

@McAdam, your reply is G - O - L - D. This is an authentic INSIDERS look you cannot "google."

Appreciate it. I want to stay in touch with you if I have some questions. You provided many insights that need to be studied and analyzed. I liked Fuerteventura. I was there a few years ago and enjoyed my time there. The hordes of goats crossing the roads there with no rush were epic I have traveled the island by car, and it was genuinely inexpensive to be there at that time.

As for the internet, do you have Starlink reach/spots there? I see you pay almost as for Starlink, but Starlink, of course, is slower, but with solar panels, you could have a really independent life

Camping is something that interests me a lot. That sort of freedom is not often seen those days. We are all owners of this small globe, but because of a few people who are making a mess, ordinary people have more restrictions than anybody else, as those people who make a mess, do not care about rules anyway.

You pointed out a lot of great stuff about Fuerta. When I was looking for some RE at Canaris I was watching mainly Gran Canaria and Tenerife as I was hoping for more planes and ferries but you are right that Fuerta has also a direct flights from major places.

Fuerteventura, as you pointed can be a Portugal of Canaris as it is not so interesting as more diverse Gran Canaria or Tenerife and can be out of the radar of many people as it is flat and relatively little nature.

Your online orders experience is also encouraging. For sure, island life is slower than on the continent, but I think this is something I could look into. I own a camper, and I see that in that place, I could probably start living right away if I could transport myself and my wife with our camper out there This is a tempting option

From all I head for now, I think that places close to what I think would be the best place to live right now are:

Malaga/another Spanish city on the continent, worst cons:

• Socialist government - but are they not ruling the world almost everywhere now in the "attractive" places?
• Stupid C19 restrictions

Canaris Islands' worst cons:

• all above from inland Spain + little more hassle with travel but it has some extra advantages which Malaga would not have

Portugal worst cons:

• similar to the Spain problems

Indonesia, New Zeland did not convinced me because of the points mentioned by others but for sure can be an excellent destination for a lot of people.

@MTF, you are really good at drawing conclusions about all those places. I'm impressed

Mask mandates are not the biggest problem for me. The problem is when somebody tries to force anybody to a mandatory jab of something so unproven like C19 vax was at the beginning. This is just unacceptable and I think we should take a lesson that we need to block that sort of thing in the future. I have taken a lot of jabs of a lot of vax in my life, but what happened with C19 blows my mind. Also idea of Cpasses drives and segration is extremely harmfull. Any INSIDERS how it is in Spain and Portugal with this? On some websites, I have seen some countries were shown as those with mandatory jabs for example, for health workers, etc. but in real life, this finally did not happen. As I understand both Spain and Portugal have no mandatory jabs or plan of those, correct? As for covid pass, where they problematic? Do they still use them?

I play by one rule: I would like to go to many places right now, I can afford to go there, but I do not need to go there and spend my money there. I will not be paying in taxes/etc. for the idiots of all those stupid rules. We can explore those days our closest locations which are as lovely as all over the world.

Any other places off the radar which are worth considering?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

Last week we went car camping to Gran Canaria, and we're shocked at how different it is from us. Not just the landscape but also how its run and how the people are.

Gran Canaria is the third worst island after Fuerteventura (no contenders) and then Lanzarote (I think of it as Fuerteventura 2.0).

Recent purchases (with delivery times): MacBook Pro 16" M1 Max (6 Days), Xiaomi M1 Ultra (22 Days), Solar battery kit for camping (same day pickup + 3 days for ordered items), Most tech electronics (7-10 days from a few websites)

I can get stuff cheaper and faster from Australia to Europe than from the continent to the Canary Islands. I don't mean it as a joke. I ordered stuff once or twice from Australia and I remember that the first time it took a couple of days. The second time was c19-time and then it took about 2-3 weeks.

I ordered a GoPro from the continent which they guaranteed would be delivered in 2 business days and it ended up being over 2 weeks and me having to drive one hour to some random shipping port to get it from a warehouse.

We also have an amazing climate for growing food - with moderate temperatures all year round!

How can the climate be amazing for growing food if there's almost no rain?

Fuerteventura is as non self-reliant as they come because it's a desert. In case the shipments from other islands and the continent are cut off, you're completely F*cked. You can't grow any food if you don't have sufficient water. There are only a couple of green-ish (it's not really green) areas of Fuerteventura and percentage-wise it's close to 0% of its area.

Most of the islands have Gigabit Fiber in the larger towns, on Fuerteventura even the smaller towns have it (due to ease of laying the cables)

In what part of the island? Northern Fuerteventura outside of Corralejo doesn't have fiber optic and many rental houses don't even offer ANY Internet connection (which I found incredible) or offer 10-20 mbps at most (we were lucky to find 100 mbps fiber but it was a very rare find).

I pay.... €500 per month (pre paid for 2 years) for a 3 bedroom villa with a swimming pool close to one of the best towns for shops and restaurants.

I have no idea where you found it. For shorter stays that's impossible. You'll be paying more like 100+ euros a day.

 

[MTF]

You pointed out a lot of great stuff about Fuerta. When I was looking for some RE at Canaris I was watching mainly Gran Canaria and Tenerife as I was hoping for more planes and ferries but you are right that Fuerta has also a direct flights from major places.

If you're seriously considering the Canary Islands and want to be left alone, then El Hierro is your best bet. It's the most remote island of the archipelago and I've felt most free there (and they cared the least about C19 restrictions). Then La Gomera comes second.

Both islands would get boring pretty fast as they're small though they offer way more variety than Fuerteventura. On both, but particularly on El Hierro you can grow food year round (enough rain for that).

Any other places off the radar which are worth considering?

Here are some places I've been to that would fit some of your criteria:

• Kyrgyzstan - wild west in the east A lot of freedom but wild and undeveloped. Can get brutally cold in the winter.
• Morocco - similar to the above, only more developed, easier to get to, and much more expat-friendly. It features the same or better climate than southern Spain.
• Slovenia - I spent there only a couple of days but it struck me as a place where you can super easily buy a nice lot in the beautiful green countryside and be left alone. The weather in the region close to Koper (southwest Slovenia) has mild subtropical climate.

 

[McAdam]

Fuerteventura

Wow, yup, seems you really had a bad experience here @MTF - and in many many of the points I've had the complete opposite whilst living here for 3 years!

Whilst I disagree with many of your points, I respect your view, experience and perspective - no place is perfect for everyone. If you are interested in learning why my perspective is so different, maybe we can chat and share experiences. I don't want to clutter this thread though

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[McAdam]

@McAdam, your reply is G - O - L - D. This is an authentic INSIDERS look you cannot "google."

Appreciate it. I want to stay in touch with you if I have some questions. You provided many insights that need to be studied and analyzed. I liked Fuerteventura. I was there a few years ago and enjoyed my time there. The hordes of goats crossing the roads there with no rush were epic I have traveled the island by car, and it was genuinely inexpensive to be there at that time.

As for the internet, do you have Starlink reach/spots there? I see you pay almost as for Starlink, but Starlink, of course, is slower, but with solar panels, you could have a really independent life

@OneManWolfPack Thanks! Of course, send me a DM and ill ping you my contact details.

I don't have starlink as its not available here yet (mainland Spain yes, but here there's no coverage). I think by early 2023 it will be covering the islands!

Without Starlink you could go the 4G route with decent network. That's what I do when I work from the Car.

Camping is something that interests me a lot. That sort of freedom is not often seen those days. We are all owners of this small globe, but because of a few people who are making a mess, ordinary people have more restrictions than anybody else, as those people who make a mess, do not care about rules anyway.

Yup, here is really open about it.
In GC people get fines all the time for "camping"... they even class an open door as camping
A friend got a €300 fine for having his back doors open and drinking a beer on the beach...
Here is no such nonsense... Just respect the land and you're good.

Your online orders experience is also encouraging. For sure, island life is slower than on the continent, but I think this is something I could look into. I own a camper, and I see that in that place, I could probably start living right away if I could transport myself and my wife with our camper out there This is a tempting option

Sometimes things take long, other times they're fast.
Depends where you order from and how busy the trade routes are... just like anywhere in the world when ordering from abroad.
You don't have as wide a choice as the rest of Europe, but you could Fly to somewhere for a day to pick things up if its really that bad.

Coming by camper is a really viable option, many foreign registered campers here from all over the world (Last year I saw Ukraine, South Africa, Norway)

IF you decide to live here (and register), and possess another EU residency - you get 75% discount on travel between the islands and the mainland.

So I would recommend coming here first to get paperwork done, then fly back and bring the camper for 75% less... Happy to share tips and details.

---

Hit me up, any time!

 

[Yucca]

My 2 cents to the topic.

For me the sunshine does make a difference. I'm originally from Finland, but moved to London, UK 2004, which was already an upgrade for me in many ways, mainly weatherwise.

However, after made to work from home (web/graphic design) by employer, I started fiddling with an idea to live somewhere sunny. Met my current wife, then girlfriend and we had an exploring trip to Spain and were planning to move to Valencia area.

Life threw a curveball and I was offered to relocate to Cyprus and keep my job, get a raise and housing budget, GF agreed and we moved there for 6 years, made a kid, lived happy enjoying the sun. Cyprus has pros and cons and eventually when our first born was hitting the local school age, we decided to relocate to Costa Del Sol, where there's good finnish school that follows .fi goverments curriculum.

We moved 4 days before the total Covid lockdown and the start was not the easiest here. Anyway, now things are getting back to normal and Spain feels like and upgrade compared to Cyprus. Things work better, online services, ordering online, internet etc.

Cyprus had beautiful nature and plenty of sunshine all year, but things are just in years behind most of europe. Everything is dealt with pretty much on paper, nothing works online, internet quality and prices are horrendous. On a plus side, you can rent a nice 3 bedroom villa with private pool and sea views with the same price than you get 3 bedroom, dated, retro-flat in Costa del sol.

Island life is not an option for us anymore. Continental europe seems to work us better, and we're planning to take on long roadtrips around europe and see new places with the kids. Things work, amazon prime, internet connections are fraction of the price and 10 times faster than in Cyprus, many of the services you can do online, healthcare etc.
Also my second son was born here 2 weeks ago. We got private healthcare here and everything went more than smoothly. He was born in Malaga hospital and you can't even compare the experience with the one we had in Cyprus!

We're in Spain to stay, but will "upgrade" the living situation more suitable as soon as possible to a house somewhere more quiet and still with good access to school etc.

For me, sunshine makes a big difference!

 

[OneManWolfPack]

It is nice that all of us have different experiences, expectations, and approaches to life. What I like is we can respect our experiences.

You can see two people on the beach looking at the sunrise, and one can say, "Holy shit, this is beautiful," and the other one saying, "Holy shit, this sun is hurting my eyes," and this is quite funny and beautiful about life

I like the idea of island life, but because of points mentioned by @Yucca. I think that something like Spain with sun and amazon prime(this is my metaphor of civilized online shopping, accessibility to everything, etc., but you can understand it also precisely and figuratively) altogether could get my heart. I think that Spain is quite far ahead of those war-opened regions, and I think this would hopefully be one of the last places war could show up in Europe - please correct me if I'm wrong.

To have an idea of any nuclear war, I always use this link Declassified US Nuclear Targets - Future of Life Institute @MTF; this is why I'm not so keen on centra Europe, even if those plans are old and not too actual and even with NATO and all that safety "marketing" umbrella.

@Yucca, can you say about the drawbacks of living in Spain? What is the most annoying for you? Some C19 freaks out there, mandatory jabs, some forecast for more craziness to come?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Yucca]

@Yucca, can you say about the drawbacks of living in Spain? What is the most annoying for you? Some C19 freaks out there, mandatory jabs, some forecast for more craziness to come?

There's always drawbacks, I guess one thing is language, you need to grasp Spanish in order to thrive in here, no matter the large expat communities etc. You cannot survive in many places with English, actually in here, you can manage in Finnish, Swedish, Danish better in some places than english. hehehe.

Of course you can try to avoid the issue, like I have hehhe, only took some basic spanish lessons with apps etc. but I'll get there. My wife had more advanced lessons and can understand it very well etc.

in Cyprus you could get away with english anywhere pretty much.

other drawbacks are somewhat relative, depends on what you're comparing to... things could be better and same standard as for example in finland, where you can do everything online and things just work and new technologies are adapted very fast to make things more effective in society.

but comparing to Cyprus, things run smooth here! it's all relative. There might be more drawbacks popping out when Spain is fully recovered from covid times and when we get into more dealing with normal everyday family life in here, but so far, I don't have much to complain about what comes to Spain's Costa Del Sol, as I can't speak for the whole country, (yet to be explored fully). But we had many nice long weekends in Madrid, Sevilla, Cordoba, Granada, Marbella and smaller towns, so far so good!

 

[OneManWolfPack]

@Yucca any mosquito issues? Any other wildlife issues? I was in Sardegna once and staying there even in day time was a nightmare, but maybe because we were close to a lot of water reservoirs. C19 restrictions were/are really such a pain?

 

[MTF]

can you say about the drawbacks of living in Spain? What is the most annoying for you?

I've been to Spain like 10-15 times (various regions, both northern and southern Spain as well as the Canary Islands and Mallorca) so I guess I can answer that as well:

• As I mentioned it before (not sure if in this thread, I talk about it too much lol), most apartments/houses don't have heating. This makes winters extremely cold when staying at home because electric radiators are shitty. I'm talking about such cold that you have to wear a jacket at home and it feels like camping outside (everything is cold and humid). If you can't find a place with proper heating sorted out, you'll suffer.
  
• Wrong time zone makes it a bad place for early risers. For example, in Málaga in the winter sun doesn't rise until 8:30 am. And in the summer, sunrise is at 7 am. For me, as an early riser, it was exhausting to wait so long for the day to start (and warm up).
• Partly because of the above, Spaniards eat VERY late. Like 10-11 pm is normal for dinner. This affects restaurants opening hours and it's often impossible to ever dine at some of them because they open at 7-8 pm (as an early riser, I go to sleep around 9 pm and don't eat so late).
• Siesta is annoying. Some places follow it, some don't. You don't ever know. Many places (including restaurants) are closed during roughly 1-5 pm which is when I'm (and many people from Europe) used to eating.
• A lot of Guardia Civil presence. They often do random checks and in general are very visible and to me it feels a bit disconcerting. Same with speed enforcement cameras. They're all over the place, often well-hidden. I got only 3 speeding tickets in my life and 2 were from Spain.
• Very congested cities with narrow streets makes parking extremely frustrating. It's best to plan where to park before you go anywhere. And better don't have a larger car or it'll be a pain (I traveled to Spain in a van once).

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[OneManWolfPack]

• Wrong time zone makes it a bad place for early risers. For example, in Málaga in the winter sun doesn't rise until 8:30 am. And in the summer, sunrise is at 7 am. For me, as an early riser, it was exhausting to wait so long for the day to start (and warm up).
• Partly because of the above, Spaniards eat VERY late. Like 10-11 pm is normal for dinner. This affects restaurants opening hours and it's often impossible to ever dine at some of them because they open at 7-8 pm (as an early riser, I go to sleep around 9 pm and don't eat so late).
• Siesta is annoying. Some places follow it, some don't. You don't ever know. Many places (including restaurants) are closed during roughly 1-5 pm which is when I'm (and many people from Europe) used to eating.

@MTF I hate you you destroyed my dream about Spain, especially Malaga. I'm starting my day at 5 in the morning and I think even to get up earlier around 4:30 or 4 maybe so this destroyed my view. I start from workout so it would not be huge problem but I work out always outside so just wrong time zone is horrible disadvantage as I like to see every single sunrise every day. Honestly, this is a huge drawback for me. As I have all season now, I would like to have sun most of the year with sunrise as early as possible. Really the weather + current situation is my main motivation to move to a place where there is no hard winters and second to non cold months. I also would like to be close to sea and if possible mountains.

To be serious you pointed probably really important points which are really worth consider. My work-flow is nothing special and probably not so different from many entrepreneurs. I start day early and it is important to get as much sun as possible before real work day start.

Slowenia you say? Hmm close to Italy and Croatia. Italy with their C19 rules are in same line for me like a big no-no. My friend who was totally anty vax get a jab as he just could not work normally. So I would not consider Mussolini country, so Slowenia is maybe a good direction to look at, even if it is little close to central Europe. Can you tell me little more why you put a spotlight on that country? I really start to be a fan of your wide look on the regions.

I always was thinking on Thailand(never been there) but foreigner cannot have land there and it has probably it's own flaws.

I know it is really hard to check all those boxes but there are some things which I would really like to have if I would consider to move which I think could be universal for a lot of people. In order some of the most important:

- A lot of sun most of the year, no hard winters with sunrise preferably as soon as possible Sea and mountains in not a far distance if possible or even just one of them
- War safety places
- No mandatory vax or idiots proposing those and would be nice with some normal C19 approach
- Easy with online orders and regular comfortable living with all benefits of modern world - amazon prime would be a bonus
- Food and water self sufficient or not totally on the will of 3rd parties
- Real estate not sky rocket to the moon
- Wildlife/nature not interfering with normal life
- Tax friendly if possible but not so worried about it too much

I'm missing something? Of course not all boxes need to be checked but first 5 are essential I think

 

[MTF]

@MTF I hate you you destroyed my dream about Spain, especially Malaga. I'm starting my day at 5 in the morning and I think even to get up earlier around 4:30 or 4 maybe so this destroyed my view. I start from workout so it would not be huge problem but I work out always outside so just wrong time zone is horrible disadvantage as I like to see every single sunrise every day. Honestly, this is a huge drawback for me. As I have all season now, I would like to have sun most of the year with sunrise as early as possible. Really the weather + current situation is my main motivation to move to a place where there is no hard winters and second to non cold months. I also would like to be close to sea and if possible mountains.

I'm sorry about that. There are some great aspects of Spain but you asked about the drawbacks so I decided to share my observations. Some of my criteria are the same as yours so I can tell you from my experience how it feels in real life. In my experience, it sucked.

As for early sunrise, assuming you want to live in a given place year round, you can't go earlier than everyday 6 am - 6 pm day in the tropics. Otherwise you'll always have sunrise later than 6 am at some point of the year.

Another option is to live 6 months in the northern hemisphere and 6 months in the southern. This way you'll always have long days and early sunrise year round.

Slowenia you say? Hmm close to Italy and Croatia. Italy with their C19 rules are in same line for me like a big no-no. My friend who was totally anty vax get a jab as he just could not work normally. So I would not consider Mussolini country, so Slowenia is maybe a good direction to look at, even if it is little close to central Europe. Can you tell me little more why you put a spotlight on that country? I really start to be a fan of your wide look on the regions.

I was there for a couple of days in June and felt it was a peaceful place. I stayed with a friend in the countryside and it felt like nobody would bother you there and you'd have a lot of freedom. But I don't know how it is with the law and stuff. It's just the vibes I got when I was there.

At the latest you'll get sunrise there at 7:45 am so that's something to take into account. Generally speaking, Europe sucks in the winter if you like early sunrise.

I always was thinking on Thailand(never been there) but foreigner cannot have land there and it has probably it's own flaws.

Yeah like most of Southeast Asia. You can own an apartment and also a house as long as you don't own the land. The only countries in this region where foreigners can own land are Malaysia and Singapore.

 

[OneManWolfPack]

These are mainly the reasons why I eventually moved from Spain to Long Beach 2 years here. No complaints so far

USA for me right now are to expensive to buy a house there. If RE will drop 40% in some sort of overall crash I would consider buying property there even if I would not live there full time. I think that USA is in the middle of a lot of points I mentioned. But overall I do not like USA to much for a living, even if I been there every single year for last ten years before C19 strike I just could not rationalize me living there "full time". But never say never. I enjoyed my time in LA and I've been there few times. The traffic in this city is horrible but after that it has a nice vibe from more of a tourist stand point. California overall is nice spot and good location with even on wheel easy access to San Francisco and Las Vegas. I was driving few times to both cities and enjoyed the ride. If I would move to states it would be probably Cali. But C19 rules in states went nuts as well from what I see and heard. Even with Cali idea of vaccine mandate bill etc.

Right now I'm not so optimistic to find optimal place.

Another option is to live 6 months in the northern hemisphere and 6 months in the southern. This way you'll always have long days and early sunrise year round.

This is something interesting and would be nice diversification of the wallet. I just hate idea of collecting properties just to have them and I cannot afford a lot of them so I need to pick visely. I'm also not a fan of renting properties I did it few times in my life, and even if I had for example 7 year contract with no problems and another one 3-4 years with no problems etc. RE is something you need to take an eye on. With all those current socialist rules benefiting renters and not securing owners in many places all over the world it is just not for me, even if you can have somebody who will do it for you. Doubling all the items you need in two houses is a pain, and I hate moving so I know I would double all items in both locations especially that a lot of items cannot be easily moved, the heavy ones like treadmills etc.

As for the timezone, this is something interesting you pointed out. I can imagine that somebody can move like @Chester Morgan as for me it would be a problem as well. When you go for a workout it is nice when you can see the sunrise as this boost morales. In really hot climate, dark at the morning can be beneficial as it is colder but I would prefer sun over extra temperature comfort.

This is really hard to pick, and as always in life you just probably need to accept some flaws to take full from the benefits of the other things. Just right now you need to consider more than before 2020, war and C19 craziness ads a lot to the mix.

When I started this topic I was hoping for solution but right now I feel like I know less in some way than at the beginning and I really like that feeling. You all pointed a lot of things worth considering. I think I will need to map this out somehow to see the bigger pictures of needs and locations options, but all new ideas and inputs will be welcome in this topic, maybe we will find something smart or optimal together.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[McAdam]

I've been to Spain like 10-15 times (various regions, both northern and southern Spain as well as the Canary Islands and Mallorca) so I guess I can answer that as well:

• As I mentioned it before (not sure if in this thread, I talk about it too much lol), most apartments/houses don't have heating. This makes winters extremely cold when staying at home because electric radiators are shitty. I'm talking about such cold that you have to wear a jacket at home and it feels like camping outside (everything is cold and humid). If you can't find a place with proper heating sorted out, you'll suffer.

Not here, winter is still 18-22c outside.
This winter was the coldest of last 3 years and we had one night where it was 12c outside, but inside was still 18c (I have logging thermometers all around the house)

But last week I went camping on another island, up in the mountains, and it was 8c in the morning....

Wrong time zone makes it a bad place for early risers. For example, in Málaga in the winter sun doesn't rise until 8:30 am. And in the summer, sunrise is at 7 am. For me, as an early riser, it was exhausting to wait so long for the day to start (and warm up).

Here is GMT
At the winter solstice sun rises at 7:20am and sets around 6:00pm
In summer sun rises around 7:00am and sets at 9:00pm

Partly because of the above, Spaniards eat VERY late. Like 10-11 pm is normal for dinner. This affects restaurants opening hours and it's often impossible to ever dine at some of them because they open at 7-8 pm (as an early riser, I go to sleep around 9 pm and don't eat so late).

Again, not everywhere. Some places do have later dinners.
Since January I eat dinner at 7pm EXACTLY (due to it being my only 1 meal each day)
Never had an issue eating out. Most places here open at 5pm, some at 6pm

Siesta is annoying. Some places follow it, some don't. You don't ever know. Many places (including restaurants) are closed during roughly 1-5 pm which is when I'm (and many people from Europe) used to eating.

Yes many places are closed, but there's a whole sub division of the hospitality industry that opens.
Dedicated cafe's and places that serve amazing food open up so the locals can go and chill at them.

A lot of Guardia Civil presence. They often do random checks and in general are very visible and to me it feels a bit disconcerting. Same with speed enforcement cameras. They're all over the place, often well-hidden. I got only 3 speeding tickets in my life and 2 were from Spain.

Not here, was only stopped once for breaking a temporary "No Entry" sign... was fined €10

Very congested cities with narrow streets makes parking extremely frustrating. It's best to plan where to park before you go anywhere. And better don't have a larger car or it'll be a pain (I traveled to Spain in a van once).

I have a large 4x4, and live close to a vert touristic city.
Never have problems parking. Yes obvious spaces are taken, but I never have to walk more than 5 mins from my destination.
And its all free parking here....

I come from London, this is the complete opposite.

 

[McAdam]

Another option is to live 6 months in the northern hemisphere and 6 months in the southern. This way you'll always have long days and early sunrise year round.

This is one of my longer term goals.
Will likely target Australia so we can travel around for those 6 months!

 

[MTF]

When I started this topic I was hoping for solution but right now I feel like I know less in some way than at the beginning and I really like that feeling. You all pointed a lot of things worth considering. I think I will need to map this out somehow to see the bigger pictures of needs and locations options, but all new ideas and inputs will be welcome in this topic, maybe we will find something smart or optimal together.

As a person who's been exploring this for years I've realized that for me no single place is perfect. I envy those who find a place where everything is perfect for them as I know that will never be the case for me. That's why I'm thinking of having 2 or maybe even 3 places perfect for a few months a year over just one imperfect one.

Also, if you're so worried about geopolitics you should be diversified anyway and be ready to move elsewhere overnight and have a homebase set up there.

At the winter solstice sun rises at 7:20am and sets around 6:00pm
In summer sun rises around 7:00am and sets at 9:00pm

It's a bit later in the winter actually, enough to make a difference

Sunrise and sunset times in Puerto del Rosario, December 2022

Calculations of sunrise and sunset in Puerto del Rosario – Las Palmas – Spain for December 2022. Generic astronomy calculator to calculate times for sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset for many cities, with daylight saving time and time zones taken in account.

www.timeanddate.com

Sunrise is at 7:47 am in the winter and 6:57 am in the summer.

To me both are terrible. Winters because it's the same in northern Europe and that's one of the things that make winters suck so much. Summers because I associate summers with early sunrise (like 4-5 am, or at least 6 am, but not 7).

I have a large 4x4, and live close to a vert touristic city.
Never have problems parking. Yes obvious spaces are taken, but I never have to walk more than 5 mins from my destination.
And its all free parking here....

My post referred to Spain in general. Most of continental Spain is like that. Fuerteventura is an exception because it's sparsely populated.

This is one of my longer term goals.
Will likely target Australia so we can travel around for those 6 months!

Yeah this is IMO the best option. You get the best of both worlds. I really love the long summer days in Europe. The tropics are nice but it's also cool to be able to go outside at 7-8 pm when there's still light. I also imagine it would be awesome to have access to two different ecosystems (different trees, plants, animals, landscapes, etc.).

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[OneManWolfPack]

So if 2 separate locations which would you pick?

 

[MTF]

So if 2 separate locations which would you pick?

Still have at least a few places to explore.

Poland is my home base and I like it in the summer. The second would be probably Australia or Barbados. Or between three places:

Poland - April/May to September
Barbados - September to December
Australia - January to April/May

 

[OneManWolfPack]

After everything is considered and mentioned, I still think that Spain is probably the best choice for me. The tiny island of Barbados does not convince me. Traveling from the destinations with possibilities of lockdowns is not something I'm keen on. Maybe travel on wheels would be something worth considering. Time-wise, touring 3 times a year, as mentioned MTF is not something for me. Most of the flaws mentioned by @MTF are not a problem for me, besides sunrise, but I think I could sacrifice that. Comparing as an example: Malaga weather to LA weather I do not see much of a difference and I still prefer Europe. Maybe any other region of Spain is better? Or Portugal could be an option as well. Some recommended locations?

Any other flaws of somebody lived in Spain longer? Would be nice to hear! And of course any new good locations are welcome.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

The tiny island of Barbados does not convince me.

Lol that wasn't a suggestion for you as it wouldn't fit your criteria at all. Just my own personal experience though overall I'd rather live in a bigger, more prosperous country (even at the expense of silly laws).

Maybe any other region of Spain is better?

The warmest area of continental Spain is Costa de la Luz (it has warmer nights than Málaga). I lived in Conil de la Frontera a year and a half ago. I don't think it's a good region for you, though, as it lacks big cities. The biggest city there, Cádiz, is a town of 117,000 people. It's not such a huge difference temperature-wise, though, but the area is definitely less populated than the Province of Málaga (so it's easier to disappear if that's what you want).

Other regions of Spain except for Murcia and parts of the Valencian Community are colder or much colder than Andalusia. Valencia may actually be a good option for you to consider as well.

Or Portugal could be an option as well.

Most of Portugal is colder than southern Spain. And the ocean is brutally cold most of the year and sucks for swimming.

 

[OneManWolfPack]

Lol that wasn't a suggestion for you as it wouldn't fit your criteria at all. Just my own personal experience though overall I'd rather live in a bigger, more prosperous country (even at the expense of silly laws).

LOL x2 This was of course sarcasm I know this was not for me

The idea of 2 or 3 locations is tempting but I think It would not be for me.

Large city is not something I need to live in, I can be close to one. I would buy detached house with some land anyway. I do not like crowded locations and I would for sure not like to have many neighbors if possible. So even in Malaga I would be looking something closer to the mountains, or smaller places just not to far from Malaga for example. I do not like large family home complex so I would be looking for something little at the suburbs etc.

 

[Bing]

Short of WW3 I don't see myself leaving the US permanently, but this might be a helpful resource for anyone reading this thread:

Cost of Living

www.numbeo.com

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Bigguns50]

Does anyone live in, have a property in, or spent time in Nicaragua ? It looks interesting.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

You take you with you no matter where you go. If you're unhappy in one place, it's rare you'll be happy in another.