Eskil's Progress Thread: Starting a Supplement Business from Scratch

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper">Thanks for checking in here, SeanyHang and Alty.<br /> I actually meant to update this again yesterday but didn&#039;t have time. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> Here is an update:<br /> - Based on some advice given to me, I decided it was wise to change the name of my product to avoid any potential legal confrontations by a certain other company. There were name similarities, and not of course intentional on my part to sound like them, but nonetheless, had they wanted to pursue it they probably would have won in court, lol.<br /> - With the name change I also decided to re-design the theme of the label. It is still structurally the same as I showed here before, but just with a different overall theme.<br /> - The product is now 100% ready for sale, shrink-banded bottles and all. Now the main focus will be to bring in sales! <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /></div>

 

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[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper">Woohoo! I already got my first order, two days after I went live, with no promotion yet. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> <script class="js-extraPhrases" type="application/json"> { "lightbox_close": "Close", "lightbox_next": "Next", "lightbox_previous": "Previous", "lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.", "lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow", "lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow", "lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen", "lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails", "lightbox_download": "Download", "lightbox_share": "Share", "lightbox_zoom": "Zoom", "lightbox_new_window": "New window", "lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar" } </script> <div class="bbImageWrapper js-lbImage" title="borat-great-success-profitapolis.com.jpg" data-src="/community/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profitapolis.com%2Fimages%2Fborat-great-success-profitapolis.com.jpg&amp;hash=285a85107acd94b32d2b088d4b86aa05" data-lb-sidebar-href="" data-lb-caption-extra-html="" data-single-image="1"> <img src="/community/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.profitapolis.com%2Fimages%2Fborat-great-success-profitapolis.com.jpg&amp;hash=285a85107acd94b32d2b088d4b86aa05" data-url="http://www.profitapolis.com/images/borat-great-success-profitapolis.com.jpg" class="bbImage" data-zoom-target="1" style="" alt="borat-great-success-profitapolis.com.jpg" title="" width="" height="" loading="lazy" /> </div></div>

 

[eliquid]

<div class="bbWrapper">Hey Eskil, its eliquid from Wickedfire<br /> <br /> Congrats man, didnt know you were over here too.<br /> <br /> Care to add me to skype groups? - &quot;stattics&quot;</div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="eliquid" data-source="post: 282890" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=282890" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-282890">eliquid said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Congrats man, didnt know you were over here too.<br /> <br /> Care to add me to skype groups? - &quot;stattics&quot; </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Hey eliquid, nice to see more people from Wickedfire come on board. Berto just joined not long ago too <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> I sent you a Skype request.</div>

 

[DennisD]

<div class="bbWrapper">Congrats on your first sale! I&#039;m WICKED excited for you! Great job!</div>

 

[Roberteking78]

<div class="bbWrapper">Congratulations. Been following along here. Have aspirations for the health industry as well. Keep with it, you&#039;ll make it.</div>

 

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[teabag]

<div class="bbWrapper">Hi Eskil, great work so far!<br /> <br /> My question is who are you exactly targeting? Will your supplement be directed towards your every day gym goer, or is it a supplement which kids, mums, dads and people of all ages can use who don&#039;t regularly exercise?<br /> <br /> Or is it for both?<br /> <br /> In Australia I&#039;ve noticed that the branding of some supplements are marketed towards a specific demographic.<br /> <br /> For example a company may produce one type of supplement, however they brand it into 2 different categories.<br /> <br /> Sports performance - targets athletes/ gym goers<br /> Health &amp; Well being - targets pretty much everyone<br /> <br /> yet, both have the same ingredients just different packaging. Thoughts on if you think this is a smart move? It could be applied to other industries as well.</div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper">Hey teabag, and thank you for your questions..<br /> My targeting is fairly broad - however, like you mentioned, I am breaking up this targeting based on the various benefits that the product has. So for instance, I can target it to people who are looking to regulate their blood sugar levels. But I can also target it to people who are into life extensions or anti-aging type products. I don&#039;t know if I will sell it yet under different packaging, but it has crossed my mind. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /></div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper">Time for me to make another update here too. Been way too busy taking action in the last month or more so I have hardly had time to check in on the forum here as much as usual. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> I still get occasional sales on Amazon, but the main reason it is still slow is because it has been over a month now - and Amazon STILL has not given me the &quot;Add to Cart&quot; button on my listing....ugh. <br /> <br /> As long as I still have that dreaded, conversion-killer &quot;List buying options&quot; button - I can&#039;t expect to sell much there. I have also shipped a small batch to Amazon FBA - but even those products do not have the &quot;Add to Cart&quot; button. Frustrating, but out of my control.<br /> <br /> So...while I wait for that, I have not been sitting on my thumbs. My plan all along was to sell via other channels as well and so I have set up a conversion-funnel now which is ready for Google Adwords. I will first target a subset of my product&#039;s market, and I have customized my landing page to tailor specifically to those people&#039;s needs.<br /> <br /> I also signed up with Ultracart (which I can highly recommend by the way!), and have created various offerings (single sale, Buy 2 get 3rd free, AND a trial/subscription option for recurring billing).<br /> <br /> The trial will not be forced opt-in, but rather a cancel anytime, no questions asked subscription at a discounted rate. Through Ultracart, I am even able to pay any affiliates recurring commissions for the lifetime of the customer on these, which is pretty awesome.<br /> <br /> Further, I have set up an auto-responder to anyone who just orders a single-sale - to encourage them to save money next month by getting the first bottle free - and then to voluntarily join my auto-shipment program. The goal of course here is to get as many customers into a recurring billing cycle as possible. I will attempt to keep the retention rate high (at least 3 months) by giving them value and free information along the way.<br /> <br /> I am also in the process of partnering up with a few site owners, to get my product featured onto their sites for a commission. It&#039;s been a lot of work to set up all the tracking, cart customization, etc. But it will be worth it in the end!</div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper">Launched my Google Adwords PPC (search only for now) campaign today, and made my first order there as well. The order was for a trial/subscription (which is ultimately what I want all customers on).<br /> <br /> I can also watch customers come and go to the site in real-time, using Olark for support chat, and Tracking202&#039;s live visitors &quot;Spy view&quot;. Pretty cool to know people are on the site and reading. Seems like most of them stay on for a good while too.<br /> <br /> A few things on my todo-list now are:<br /> - Get the landing page better optimized for mobile. Looks like 30-40% of visitors are on mobile devices!<br /> - Set up remarketing with Adwords so I can show banners with a coupon to visitors who left the site without ordering.<br /> <br /> I also made a few sales on Amazon since I placed a listing with FBA. Still no &quot;Buy&quot; (Add to Cart) button though, which sucks, but I will try to lower my price a little there to see if it helps.</div>

 

[3things]

<div class="bbWrapper">For sure worth building LP&#039;s/path responsive these days, especially since adwords is retiring the ability to target devices specifically (its probably just about happened now fully I think). Facebook is high % of mobile traffic as well if you&#039;re thinking of going there, but you can at least target desktop users exclusively via their power editor.<br /> <br /> Even if you don&#039;t initially use it, its well worth setting up retargeting lists on adwords - set the life to something long like 180 days and then you have plenty of time to figure out what to offer people on it, while your list builds. Its also imho much better value retargeting via adwords than others such as adroll, who essentially are serving on the same inventory for about 5x the price <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /></div>

 

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[Darius]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Eskil" data-source="post: 290389" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=290389" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-290389">Eskil said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Still no &quot;Buy&quot; (Add to Cart) button though </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> I am experiencing that same problem. Do you know why we have no button? Do Amazon not like us? lol</div>

 

[1step]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Darius" data-source="post: 290496" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=290496" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-290496">Darius said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I am experiencing that same problem. Do you know why we have no button? Do Amazon not like us? lol </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Have you made any sales? You either need more sales a lower price or wait longer. The wait is usually no more than a few weeks in my experience. If you have had sales you probably need to lower your price as well. Care to link to your product, I could probably help you more once seeing it.</div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper">3things;<br /> Good points, and nice tip about setting the list age to 180 days. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /><br /> <br /> Darius;<br /> UPDATE: I *just* now actually got the &quot;Add to Cart&quot; button!<br /> What did I do? I had lowered the price yesterday to see if that would help. It didn&#039;t. So about an hour ago - as a test - I lowered it again, and low and behold, all the sudden now my listing has the Buy button. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /> About time..</div>

 

[bajones]

<div class="bbWrapper">Just curious if your sales on Amazon have improved once the &quot;Add to Cart&quot; button was placed on your listing?<br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Eskil" data-source="post: 290650" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=290650" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-290650">Eskil said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> 3things;<br /> Good points, and nice tip about setting the list age to 180 days. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /><br /> <br /> Darius;<br /> UPDATE: I *just* now actually got the &quot;Add to Cart&quot; button!<br /> What did I do? I had lowered the price yesterday to see if that would help. It didn&#039;t. So about an hour ago - as a test - I lowered it again, and low and behold, all the sudden now my listing has the Buy button. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /> About time.. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote></div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper">Hey bajones,<br /> I&#039;ve had a few more sales yes but nothing to write home about yet, lol.<br /> <br /> Right now I&#039;m 100% focused on getting traffic outside of Amazon though. Got another subscriber the other day from Adwords and have been optimizing the hell out of my landing page and checkout process based on initial test traffic. <br /> <br /> My page was too bloated and I was able to cut it down in size by 75% (!). I also had my server optimized for speed and now the whole thing loads faster than ever. Lastly, my Ultracart checkout page has also been optimized more for converting better. I might write up a big post soon about landing page and checkout optimization. Stay tuned.. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /></div>

 

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[Jinxus]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Eskil" data-source="post: 291620" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=291620" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-291620">Eskil said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Hey bajones,<br /> I&#039;ve had a few more sales yes but nothing to write home about yet, lol.<br /> <br /> Right now I&#039;m 100% focused on getting traffic outside of Amazon though. Got another subscriber the other day from Adwords and have been optimizing the hell out of my landing page and checkout process based on initial test traffic. <br /> <br /> My page was too bloated and I was able to cut it down in size by 75% (!). I also had my server optimized for speed and now the whole thing loads faster than ever. Lastly, my Ultracart checkout page has also been optimized more for converting better. I might write up a big post soon about landing page and checkout optimization. Stay tuned.. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-wink.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-shortname=";)" /> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> I&#039;ve been lurking your thread before signing up. Thanks for making this. Such an interesting read so far.<br /> <br /> I totally agree that your website was too bloated before. While there&#039;s still room for improvement, you&#039;ve done a tremendous job updating it.</div>

 

[FrankSmith]

<div class="bbWrapper">Hi Eskil,<br /> <br /> Quick question, how did you get a doctors endorsement?</div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper">Hey FrankSmith;<br /> By seeing an opportunity and grabbing it. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /> Basically I always keep my eyes and ears open for people or situations that could help my business grow. BUT... always with the mindset that I will also help them. So let&#039;s say you come across someone who you think could be helpful for your business in some way (be it for credibility, for direct help, funding, marketing, design, whatever...). Then contact them and ask if there is any way you can help them - and maybe you can help each other out. <br /> <br /> Create your own Karma! <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /></div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="bajones" data-source="post: 291593" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=291593" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-291593">bajones said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Just curious if your sales on Amazon have improved once the &quot;Add to Cart&quot; button was placed on your listing? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Actually, the more time that goes by - the more sales seem to trickle in after I got that &quot;Add to Cart&quot; button. I will need to order more inventory here soon actually.</div>

 

[Gymjunkie]

<div class="bbWrapper">Awesome thread! Super inspiring! How are things these days?</div>

 

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[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Gymjunkie" data-source="post: 302641" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=302641" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-302641">Gymjunkie said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Awesome thread! Super inspiring! How are things these days? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> My orders are still slowly increasing on Amazon, with zero promotion running at the moment. I am also near getting sold out soon and will need to re-order more bottles. The last few months I have left it on autopilot with FBA because I needed to complete the preparations for my invention launch (which will be a Kickstarter). <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /></div>

 

[TJPB]

<div class="bbWrapper">Nice work Eskil. Question on Amazon Fulfillment....can you use this service but not list products for sale on Amazon.com? I&#039;ve been reading up on their site about the service but haven&#039;t found a concrete answer. <br /> <br /> I was hoping to outsource order fulfillment to Amazon directly off my site......without listing anything for sale on Amazon.com. My gut tells me they don&#039;t allow this.</div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="TJPB" data-source="post: 302684" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=302684" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-302684">TJPB said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Nice work Eskil. Question on Amazon Fulfillment....can you use this service but not list products for sale on Amazon.com? I&#039;ve been reading up on their site about the service but haven&#039;t found a concrete answer.<br /> <br /> I was hoping to outsource order fulfillment to Amazon directly off my site......without listing anything for sale on Amazon.com. My gut tells me they don&#039;t allow this. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> No, you would need to have the products listed there.</div>

 

[Gymjunkie]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Eskil" data-source="post: 302678" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=302678" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-302678">Eskil said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> My orders are still slowly increasing on Amazon, with zero promotion running at the moment. I am also near getting sold out soon and will need to re-order more bottles. The last few months I have left it on autopilot with FBA because I needed to complete the preparations for my invention launch (which will be a Kickstarter). <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> That&#039;s amazing that you get sales without much work now. I&#039;m jealous<span class="smilie smilie--emoji" title="Big Grin :D" data-smilie="8" data-shortname=":D">😀</span> <br /> <br /> Did you break even already with total expenses for supplement already?</div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Gymjunkie" data-source="post: 302693" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=302693" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-302693">Gymjunkie said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Did you break even already with total expenses for supplement already? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Oh yeah, did that a while ago <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /></div>

 

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[TJPB]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Eskil" data-source="post: 302685" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=302685" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-302685">Eskil said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> No, you would need to have the products listed there. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Turns out you don&#039;t<img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> From Amazon:<br /> <br /> &quot;Thank you for your interest in our Fulfillment by Amazon program. In order to enroll in the Fulfillment by Amazon program, you must first register to sell on Amazon.com. While you will need to have a Selling on Amazon account, you are not required to use it to actively sell on Amazon.&quot;</div>

 

[1step]

<div class="bbWrapper">Amazon will fulfill any order for you whether you sell it on amazon or not but if it is an order sold off amazon then the price is significantly more. <br /> <br /> I think for a supplement bottle it went from around $2 per bottle to nearly $5</div>

 

[TJPB]

<div class="bbWrapper">It&#039;s .99 more sold directly off my site.</div>

 

[Eskil]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="TJPB" data-source="post: 302698" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/community/goto/post?id=302698" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-302698">TJPB said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Turns out you don&#039;t </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Wow, that&#039;s interesting. And my apologies for saying otherwise. <img src="/community/imgs/emoticons/em-smile2.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /></div>