Do Any Of You Guys Think Apple Are Starting To Show Signs Of Falling?

[biophase]

If you have read Steve Jobs's book, then you probably know that Apple has swerved from his vision. Steve wanted everything looking smooth, sleek and most of all, easy to use. You can tell that many of the Apple decisions made are these so called "way ahead of their time innovations" but instead make the user experience worse. Jobs would have never let these headaches pass for innovation.

I am reminded of this every time I'm on a plane and I go to plug in my Bose noise cancelling headphones and then F*ck! I forgot the dongle. WTF.

Jobs, "so you want to remove the headphone jack?"
Apple Designer, "yes, we believe people will buy wireless headphones in the future""
Jobs, "what happens when their headphones run out of batteries?"
Apple Designer, "They can then use regular headphones"
Jobs, "so you want people to carry around this extra swing dick around so they can use headphones?"
Apple Designer, "Yes"
Jobs, "You're fired"

 

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[Deleted50669]

Why not? Nowadays getting their phone for $999 isn't good value compared to the best Androids, so surely eventually people will notice and switch?

Unfortunately, brand inertia is a real thing. When people have been wedded to a brand for so long, they stop thinking critically because they've developed trust. This is why Apple can get away with nixing the headphone jack; the consumer base has become borderline cultist (I can say that as an iphone user myself). It usually takes either a serious deviation in quality (Samsung exploding phone), or a remarkably groundbreaking innovation from the competitor to uproot brand inertia.

 

[I Am I Said]

Apple vs Android is just as polarized as politics

And the funny thing is, where I work, all the people who own either debate them hotly and then:

• Phone people
• Text
• email
• listen to music

And that's about it...

 

[Sanj Modha]

Why not? Nowadays getting their phone for $999 isn't good value compared to the best Androids, so surely eventually people will notice and switch?

Actually, the Pixel 2 starting price isn't far off that. You'll know it's in decline when Buffet starts dumping his shares and AFAIK - he hasn't sold a single share yet. Ever.

 

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[Sanj Modha]

No, Apple is proof positive that marketing is queen. Even when their execution slipped (lagging comparable android phones in features) they still sell massive quantities of phones at a big profit.

With respect to innovation, nobody is really innovating - least of all Apple, who never innovated. We're seeing the effects of corporatism and easy money. If you can get capital for next to nothing, then it makes no sense to innovate. You don't have to take risk to get a big return on your money, just bank on something iterative and rake in the profits.

Got a breakthrough idea? Oh... well, better make sure it doesn't violate any of the hundreds of thousands of patents held by the entrenched oligopolies. Good luck trying to reinvent the phone as a startup, given that Apple F*cking patented rectangles with rounded corners.

I agree that nobody is really innovating in this space but I disagree that Apple never innovated.

They created iTunes and revolutionized the music industry when everyone said it was dying. They created the App Store and turned it into a $12bn industry (just Apple's revenue/year).

They launched the iPhone and turned how telecoms operators provide services on its head. This was all during Jobs' time so who knows what the future will bring. Except for the Mac - I do find their products less inspiring now.

I have the iPhone 6 and no plans to move. Not for a while.

 

[StevieB]

Apple has turned into Microsoft. They have so much money and market share and their technologies are so entrenched they will be around for a long time to come and make money for a long time to come.

They also have the same problem as Microsoft. Instead of listening to what the market wants they try throwing stuff out there and call it 'innovations' when little to no one finds it 'innovative'. Like the headphone jack. Oh yea that's SO BOLD removing an option and calling it innovative. That's a really big innovation there. Samsung is only slightly better.

I don't know what's wrong with these companies. It's like their completely disconnected with the market and just make up stuff thinking this is what they want.

Somebody please make a phone with a big battery (I don't care if it's as slim as a credit card) that's replaceable, that won't require me to update if I don't want to without having to keep 'rescheduling', that I can fully set to factory 0 without any updates so if I wanted I can get a brand new battery and reset it back to the old OS and get my 'like new' battery life back without all the extra crap running that slows down the phone and eats up more battery. Keep the headphone jack so I can use it if I want to.

Seriously all I want is a phone that I can get a new battery for and keep the old OS so it runs like it was new, that I can use a headphone with in case I lose my wireless ones so I have my backup, that has a decent battery life.

I don't need "innovation" and "waterproofing" (though its sort of nice but not that big of a deal) or a camera that can take pictures of the moon. Just make it so I can keep it with a good battery life and so it doesn't get slow, with an SD card so I can get more storage. Is that to much to ask?

 

[Spstepp]

Jobs is gone, they can only fake it for so long. As long as the bean counters are in charge it will be more of the same with no meaningful innovation. Seems to happen a lot once a company is put on managerial life support like Apple. They just try to keep the ride going as long as possible. What is needed is someone with vision and the guts to implement it in top management. I don't see that happening. Google on the other hand...

 

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[Sanj Modha]

Apple has turned into Microsoft. They have so much money and market share and their technologies are so entrenched they will be around for a long time to come and make money for a long time to come.

They also have the same problem as Microsoft. Instead of listening to what the market wants they try throwing stuff out there and call it 'innovations' when little to no one finds it 'innovative'. Like the headphone jack. Oh yea that's SO BOLD removing an option and calling it innovative. That's a really big innovation there. Samsung is only slightly better.

I don't know what's wrong with these companies. It's like their completely disconnected with the market and just make up stuff thinking this is what they want.

Somebody please make a phone with a big battery (I don't care if it's as slim as a credit card) that's replaceable, that won't require me to update if I don't want to without having to keep 'rescheduling', that I can fully set to factory 0 without any updates so if I wanted I can get a brand new battery and reset it back to the old OS and get my 'like new' battery life back without all the extra crap running that slows down the phone and eats up more battery. Keep the headphone jack so I can use it if I want to.

Seriously all I want is a phone that I can get a new battery for and keep the old OS so it runs like it was new, that I can use a headphone with in case I lose my wireless ones so I have my backup, that has a decent battery life.

I don't need "innovation" and "waterproofing" (though its sort of nice but not that big of a deal) or a camera that can take pictures of the moon. Just make it so I can keep it with a good battery life and so it doesn't get slow, with an SD card so I can get more storage. Is that to much to ask?

There's a concept called 'Planned Obsolescence". Google it.

A bunch of corp execs got together in the 30s and 40s to figure out a way of milking consumers in perpetuity. The offshoot is Coca Cola turning Santa Claus from green to red, 'disposable' electric toothbrushes when it's 2 x AA batteries that anyone can replace, and non-refillable printer cartridges which are totally reusable.

 

[StevieB]

There's a concept called 'Planned Obsolescence". Google it.

A bunch of corp execs got together in the 30s and 40s to figure out a way of milking consumers in perpetuity. The offshoot is Coca Cola turning Santa Claus from green to red, 'disposable' electric toothbrushes when it's 2 x AA batteries that anyone can replace, and non-refillable printer cartridges which are totally reusable.

Yes I'm aware of what they're doing and it pisses me off. Disposable toothbrushes are $10, as opposed to an $800 - 1k smartphone with a shelf life of 2 years before you have to constantly keep it plugged in for battery life.

If I didn't use it so much for business needs like an AirBnB app I'd replace it with a flip phone that can text and be done with it. Though I'm considering a small tablet.

It's not that I can't afford it but rather if I'm spending that much on a PHONE, I expect it to last longer.

 

[lowtek]

I agree that nobody is really innovating in this space but I disagree that Apple never innovated.

They created iTunes and revolutionized the music industry when everyone said it was dying. They created the App Store and turned it into a $12bn industry (just Apple's revenue/year).

They launched the iPhone and turned how telecoms operators provide services on its head. This was all during Jobs' time so who knows what the future will bring. Except for the Mac - I do find their products less inspiring now.

I have the iPhone 6 and no plans to move. Not for a while.

I think we have different definitions of innovation. To me innovation is creating something brand new and never before seen and a clear leap forward for the consumer. We already had software repositories and peer to peer file sharing... so nothing really new there.

At their core, all the iTunes and app store are, are DRM systems that dictate how I can use the stuff I have purchased. I'm firmly in the anti DRM camp.

What if I don't want to use iTunes to play music, because winamp still whips the llamas a$$? Too bad, better burn it to a CD party like it's 1990. What if I want to download content and then watch it somewhere without internet access? Guess I better pray iTunes doesn't try to phone home - heaven forbid I be able to enjoy the content I paid for, without Apple's permission.

To me, everything Apple does is either a copycat or a step in the opposite direction of where we should be heading. To be fair, there is some zealotry in my position, but I don't think my assertion that I should be able to listen to the music I purchased in whatever software I want is off base.

 

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[minivanman]

Personally I've used a blue tooth headphone set ever since they came out. I'm the guy with the old type that has both ears covered so I can actually hear what the other person is saying. I don't listen to music with them.... if I can't listen to music on my blue tooth speaker I don't listen at all.

 

[million$$$smile]

Remember,
Woolworths, Pan Am, Borders, Blockbuster, Oldsmobile, Amoco, Enron, General Foods (acquired), Compaq, Eastern Airlines, E.F. Hutton, Paine Webber, Merry-Go-Round, MCI Worldcom, Standard Oil, Pullman Co., Arther Anderson, TWA, DeLorean Motors, Pets.com, Adelphia, Lionel Corp, Bear Stearns, Beatrice Foods, Atari, Drexel Burnham Lambert, Child World, Norton Motorcycle, Orion Pictures, Schwinn Bycycle, Wang Labs, Commodore Int'l, Simtek Corp, Chieftan Products, Bre-X, Game Tek, Tseng Labs, Daewoo, Napster, Bethlehem Steel, Bradlees.....

And perhaps soon,
Sears, J.C Penney, Zynga, Red Lobster, Volvo, Quiznos, Blackberry, Abercrombie & Fitch, First Solar, Trip Advisor, Avon, Payless Shoes, Macys, Aeropostale, Theranos, The Limited, Tiffany, Claire's, Twitter?

Who knows? I remember cutting my internet teeth on Netscape and AOL but few use then now...

The only thing I'm sure about is that nothing is constant.

And your only as good as your last sale.

 

[loop101]

It seems like Apple has lost its mojo.

They really screwed up with the Swift language. They made an easier language because the more recent generations of programmers thought Objective-C was too hard to learn, but they didn't get their own grey-beards on board. So now, the core of iOS is going to continue to be written in Objective-C, Apple's internal programmers are slow to switch, and everyone outside of Apple is being told to use Swift. The main problem now is that new programmers have to learn TWO languages, and BOTH are Apple-specific. You learn Swift when you start out, and then you eventually have to learn Objective-C. They actually made it a bigger pain to be an iOS developer. What they need to do is either kill Swift, or rewrite iOS in Swift (and kill Objective-C). Steve Jobs could make those kind of decisions, but nobody there now has the guts. Steve Jobs would spin the company on a dime when he needed to, like when he cancelled the clone-makers licenses, when he switched to Unix, when he switched to Intel chips, when he eliminated obsolete hardware standards, etc. Tim Cook hasn't been tested yet, it will be interesting to see how he does when he has to make tough decisions. He seems exceedingly weak to me.

I thought Jon Ives would have been a better leader of Apple, since he at least had Jobs sense of design. He seems like the type to make a good product first, and count the money second. My view of him dropped considerably when I found out much of his design aesthetic came from Dieter Rams designs from 1960s.

A Side-by-Side Comparison of Apple and Braun Designs

 

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[loop101]

And your only as good as your last sale.

Your last sale, or your $250B cash horde, whichever is greater.

 

[Thoelk]

Apple was & is Steve Jobs, just like Tesla is Elon Musk. While I'm a huge fan of both (especially Musk), the biggest reason their companies skyrocket is their own persona & vision. As soon as Steve passed away, Apple just became another multinational like all it's 'enemies'.

You still have the fanbase - which was created by Steve - but Apple doesn't serve a niche-market anymore, so they're also prone to mass-consumer critics/flaws. Is Apple failing? Maybe not (yet) monetarily, but I do have the impression that they lost their 'true essence' (if a company can have that) and that they just try to squeeze everything out of the Jobs-branding as long as they can... Until Apple-products are marked as a commodity like their 'enemies' and their premium price isn't justified anymore.

As a big Tesla fan, I'm afraid this will happen with the company as well. Tesla as a product is nice/great, yet over-expensive due to the fact that you're essentially funding their R&D. The reason the company keeps going, is because of Elon's huge vision & persona. But he has stated it before that he will leave the company alone, when the mass-production is on point. From that point on, I think Tesla's will become just another car manufacturer. The biggest difference with Steve Jobs/Apple? Tesla isn't Elon his endgoal, so he "cares less about it".

I hope I'm wrong though, but we'll see...

 

[Sanj Modha]

Jobs is gone, they can only fake it for so long. As long as the bean counters are in charge it will be more of the same with no meaningful innovation. Seems to happen a lot once a company is put on managerial life support like Apple. They just try to keep the ride going as long as possible. What is needed is someone with vision and the guts to implement it in top management. I don't see that happening. Google on the other hand...

Nail on the head for me. Steve Jobs was their greatest asset and weakness in my opinion. But the same is true for Musk/Tesla, Bezos/Amazon etc. How long can these companies flourish without the founder and visionary? It would be a challenge for anyone.

 

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[Sanj Modha]

Apple was & is Steve Jobs, just like Tesla is Elon Musk. While I'm a huge fan of both (especially Musk), the biggest reason their companies skyrocket is their own persona & vision. As soon as Steve passed away, Apple just became another multinational like all it's 'enemies'.

You still have the fanbase - which was created by Steve - but Apple doesn't serve a niche-market anymore, so they're also prone to mass-consumer critics/flaws. Is Apple failing? Maybe not (yet) monetarily, but I do have the impression that they lost their 'true essence' (if a company can have that) and that they just try to squeeze everything out of the Jobs-branding as long as they can... Until Apple-products are marked as a commodity like their 'enemies' and their premium price isn't justified anymore.

As a big Tesla fan, I'm afraid this will happen with the company as well. Tesla as a product is nice/great, yet over-expensive due to the fact that you're essentially funding their R&D. The reason the company keeps going, is because of Elon's huge vision & persona. But he has stated it before that he will leave the company alone, when the mass-production is on point. From that point on, I think Tesla's will become just another car manufacturer. The biggest difference with Steve Jobs/Apple? Tesla isn't Elon his endgoal, so he "cares less about it".

I hope I'm wrong though, but we'll see...

I love Tesla and Elon Musk because without guys/girls like these - we'd still be swinging in the trees. Their vision propels humanity forward. That being said there is an element of crony capitalism at work.

The last time I checked, Tesla received $5bn in US govt subsidies on top of the $7000 they give in customer rebates for every new Tesla purchase.

Also, the average salary of a Model S owner is about $230,000/year and $550,000/year for a Model X owner. You could argue that at the moment it's a rich person's toy.

But if anyone can take on the big boys like Toyota and win - it's Elon.

 

[PetePreneur]

Perhaps this exact thing is happening to Apple:

View: https://youtu.be/_1rXqD6M614

 

[PureA]

You just know Steve Jobs' reaction would not be a pleasant one if he saw Apple today...

They will fade IMO (as much as a $250b powerhouse can)

 

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[Jose L. Nimmons]

WS is bringing the stock down, then when ER are released it will be back to the level of its all time high. In long-term they will be fine.

 

[jon2089]

Apple was also the first to eliminate the floppy disk drive and flash. With a $500+ phone buying $30 Bluetooth head phones is not a big deal, you don't have to buy their brand any Bluetooth headphones work

 

[ColbyG]

Apple is on the back-half of the iPhone product Life Cycle. Businesses are built by creating value (aka revenue-generation) but profits are obtained by extracting value (aka business model + unit economics). That's what you are seeing. Apple is stacking cash until their next big breakthrough product.

Exactly right! But they do need to release a new product soon. Phones have almost reached a plateau in terms of innovation and soon people aren't going to see the point in buying the new one. But obviously, people are still buying them, so Apple will keep selling them for the time being.

I do hope that Apple releases an AR/MR headset as their next line of products, because they have an uncanny ability to make stuff cool and jump from early adopters to mainstream users.

 

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[Vigilante]

I just switched from an iPhone to the Google pixel 2. Solid performance
and seamless Google integration. Taking a full, long drink of the Kool-Aid.

Their (Google's) voice recognition technology and digital assistant is far superior.

 

[lowtek]

TBH, I'm waiting for the Librem 5.

Linux > all ftw

 

[Sanj Modha]

I think we have different definitions of innovation. To me innovation is creating something brand new and never before seen and a clear leap forward for the consumer. We already had software repositories and peer to peer file sharing... so nothing really new there.

At their core, all the iTunes and app store are, are DRM systems that dictate how I can use the stuff I have purchased. I'm firmly in the anti DRM camp.

What if I don't want to use iTunes to play music, because winamp still whips the llamas a$$? Too bad, better burn it to a CD party like it's 1990. What if I want to download content and then watch it somewhere without internet access? Guess I better pray iTunes doesn't try to phone home - heaven forbid I be able to enjoy the content I paid for, without Apple's permission.

To me, everything Apple does is either a copycat or a step in the opposite direction of where we should be heading. To be fair, there is some zealotry in my position, but I don't think my assertion that I should be able to listen to the music I purchased in whatever software I want is off base.

You just know Steve Jobs' reaction would not be a pleasant one if he saw Apple today...

They will fade IMO (as much as a $250b powerhouse can)

Steve would be horrified that Apple even had the audacity to launch plastic iPhones.

If you want more info - read his bio by Walter Isaacson and the chapter with the iPhone 4 (I think). The delays were caused by the internal antenna because Steve didn't want anything sticking out. He would fight with the engineers for months and when they suggested a plastic alternative - he lost it.

It's one of the best books I've ever read and there's great insight from titans like Bill Gates, Woz, Larry Ellison etc too.

 

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[Sanj Modha]

I just switched from an iPhone to the Google pixel 2. Solid performance
and seamless Google integration. Taking a full, long drink of the Kool-Aid.

Their (Google's) voice recognition technology and digital assistant is far superior.

Yeah it's pretty good actually. I have the Home on my office desk.

 

[StevieB]

If this thread is any indication then yes there's people moving off iphones. A lot of people will keep using them primarily because they're used to the interface and Android will seem confusing.

Personally I have no love for IPhones. *EVERYTHING* has to go through apple. When I first got one, I wanted to download a song. Nope I had to make an itunes account, huh? I wanted to plug it into a USB port on my computer and transfer my songs onto it. Nope, I had to get an ITunes account then "sync it" so all the crap in the itunes account goes with it to. I wanted to just download a quick ringtone and change it to that, nope couldn't do that either? No wonder almost *every* iphone has that same annoying ringtone. You can't change it unless you buy one from Apple! Or do some edit it itunes on a song you bought from them, or something.

Really, I can't just copy/paste stuff onto my phone? Coming from the PC/Android world that just blew my mind they didn't even have such a basic staple of functionality of copy/paste. Wow.

They just suck you into everything going through Apple otherwise you're very limited.

When I ask people, what's better about your iphone than my android.. I just get blank stares.

Also FYI - they are TERRIBLE for corporations to use MACs.

 

[Mr.Brandtastic]

I have to disagree. See Apple has spent decades building a brand whereas other computer, technology, and phone manufacturers built businesses.

I own no Apple products. But what does that mean? I'm less cool. I'm less hip. I'm not as with the times. I'm old.

I would never pay $1,000+ for a phone, that's outrageous. Sure you would guy, don't be silly. You probably already pay hundreds for a normal smart phone. The question is why. Why can Apple charge that much for a new phone? Because they spent time building a great brand. Not a business, not some utilitarian and uniform piece of electric conformity.

Think of someone you really like, a company in particular. Would you pay that much for a phone by them? Yes and you would be willing to pay more. People would be willing to wait in line for hours for it. People would be willing to finance it if they couldn't afford it. But I wouldn't do that! Great, neither would I, but don't be so selfishly motivated. Look for the bigger picture.

This new feature sucks! You think they didn't expect resistance? You think they don't hear that every single day? Of course they do. But as The Millionaire Fastlane explains, there's always going to be push-back to change. This is normal. I'm sure there's push-back everywhere. They expect it and move forward.

They didn't grow to be one of the best overnight. The loss of Steve Jobs is a tragic one. However Apple still has a bright future, anyone who thinks otherwise is silly. I've been hearing people complain about Apple since childhood, yet it has continued to skyrocket.

 

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[StevieB]

Nope.

Apple will depreciate because they no longer innovate. They don't have their claws in the market the same way Microsoft does.

I was around when they blew up, hell I was a salesperson of their products and saw why they did.

They will always have a fan following and those that try to use an android will be confused, but short of that, their brand will slowly die if they don't meet the commandments.

To me currently, they look like MySpace.

edit : but hey who knows maybe they'll do some crazy innovative thing like taking away the headphone jack! OMG -- thats SO BOLD. So INNOVATIVE. (seriously, why the F*ck do they even pay these idiots?)

 

[StevieB]

This new feature sucks! [/B]You think they didn't expect resistance? You think they don't hear that every single day? Of course they do. But as The Millionaire Fastlane explains, there's always going to be push-back to change. This is normal. I'm sure there's push-back everywhere. They expect it and move forward.

I have to call you out here because you used MJ's book to justify this quote.

Yes, change has to happen, but not if it's something stupid.

You ever follow the 'evolution' of XBOX1. What they did was "change stuff" -- but their changes were restrictions. These restrictions were designed to make software companies more money (ala Apple removing the headphone jack, calling it a benefit), and even thought they tried to spin it as well as they could -- the gaming community threw a MILLION PEOPLE fit over it, and they eventually changed it before release.

Just because you "change" something doesn't mean it's good. It's only good if the consumer judges it to be good.

In many cases what Apple has done the consumer has not judged it to be good.