Defeat Your Nihilism: 3 Simple Steps

[NeoDialectic]

This thread isn't for everyone.

Many people are born knowing exactly what they want. Others grew up in an environment (like religion) that ingrained strong motivations into them. This thread isn't for you

If you don't think you can achieve everything you set your mind to. This thread is also not for you.

If you think you can achieve whatever you set your mind to, but you just don't know what you want to do or whether it's worth doing...This thread is for you.

There have been several periods in my life when I didn't have strong drives or clear goals. I see a lot of bright young individuals on here having a hard time figuring out what they want and being slowly eaten away by the nihilism bug. You can see the symptoms written all over their face. They know what they need to do to accomplish things(ACTION), but they do just about everything but that. They waste their time soaking up as much self- help as they can. They seek validation and hope to be pushed by others into action. But instead of accomplishing things they terrorize themselves with analysis paralysis. Advice like "Just figure out what you want" falls on deaf ears because if they knew what they wanted, they would just do it! Obviously.

Here's the bad news: I am 35 and still don't know exactly what I want.

Here's the good news: I was still able to get motivated enough to become successful by my (and most people's) standards. The best part is you can too!

---

#1. Stop expecting to know exactly what you want​

You aren't going to solve for "the meaning of life" while soaping yourself up in the shower. The greatest philosophical minds in all of history haven't been able to make a conclusive argument. Remember that you can't derive an ought from an is (is-ought problem). Stop trying to logic or reason your way out of this. Most of your growth now has to happen by taking cues from your emotional faculties.

#2. Settle for being directionally correct​

The great news is that you don't actually have to know what you want to achieve it. Being directionally correct is enough to accomplish great things. Act on anything you can be sure is at least in the right direction. You may not know if your idea to mow laws for money is going to be the right one, but it sure is in the right direction toward getting what you want than just sitting on your butt and playing video games all day.

#3. Use heuristics to help shortcut endless analysis​

When I was most lost, I came up with the following heuristic that helped guide me: "When I think of a successful 45-year-old man that I have the utmost respect for, what traits does he have and what has he accomplished". For me, the answer was a man that had a good relationship with his family, enough money to be financially free from outside pressures, empathetic, strong, and willing to do what he believes is right. This answer eventually became my north star. Every single "Should I make this sacrifice" question instantly became easier to answer. If taking the pattern of thought to it's extreme will not lead me to become that 45-year-old man, it is now considered wrong for me.

I was obviously younger when I thought about this, so be sure to add a good 20 years to your age when you're doing this. It doesn't work when it's in the past or immediate future. Don't be afraid to get creative and play with this idea in any way that helps you. What would his daily actions look like? How would he answer your questions? What would he say about your current dilemma? What advice would he give you?

Remember.....The point of this exercise is to find what you respect in this older person. Not your parents. Not your neighbor. Not society. They don't have to live with you for the rest of your life. You may find your answer has nothing to do with wealth. That may mean that getting a decent paying job and spending most of your time with friends/family is actually what you value most. THATS OK. Don't let others bully you into being ashamed of that. You can live a happy fulfilled life without being wealthy or an entrepreneur. Stop this business nonsense and go focus on things that matter to you. (Although I'm guessing if you found yourself on these forums.....there is a good chance that businesses/wealth/freedom is important to you...)

---

Examples​

---

When I find myself in a situation where I am torn about doing something, I try to get down to exactly what is stopping me from doing it. Usually, it is one of these.

Nihilism​

Many bright-eyed teens fall into nihilism when they realize that happiness and fulfillment are internally derived. It is easy to use this "logic" to justify not making sacrifices and choosing the "easy" path. "What's even the point?". I'll tell you. Using this theory can justify you laying in a closet your entire life as long as you are hooked up to nutrition and the proper dose of feel-good drugs. How does this picture vibe with your image of a 45-year-old that you respect? That's what I thought.

For that reason, nihilism is not the answer. It is wrong for you. Remember, you don't need to try and objectively disprove an unfalsifiable theory (impossible!). You only need to prove it is subjectively wrong for you.

Whenever you catch yourself justifying something with "does it even matter", you need to either find a better reason or do what you know needs to be done.

@fastlane_dad and I pull this exact example out from time to time. When one of us tries to sandbag an idea with some flavor of nihilism, the other will just say "well that reasoning is just going to get us into the closet" and that usually ties up that train of thought immediately.

Laziness​

My ideal 45-year-old man doesn't say no to things just because he is lazy. Unless you literally don't have enough nutrition or you have some kind of physical injury, energy is actually endless. Your question is whether the outcome is worth the mental fortitude it would take for you to push past the sloth. If the only reason for not doing something is laziness, then that means you have no reason not to do it.

Irrational fear​

If fear is the only reason for not doing something with great potential benefits, then ask yourself what the actual realistic worst outcome is. Is it really that bad in the grand scheme of things? If not, then your fear is likely irrational. My ideal 45-year-old man has built up a thick skin and doesn't waiver to irrational fears. There's only one way of getting there.....

Conflicting values​

This is the hardest one of them all. Sometimes fulfilling core values involve sacrificing other core values (at least temporarily). I find that the 45-year-old heuristic still helps immensely. Life is a balancing act.

For example: All else equal, I still want more wealth! But businesses usually take a good amount of time and commitment. Since I have young kids and "enough" resources, I have decided to sacrifice my work commitment for even more family time at almost every crossroads. This is consistent with my view of a respectable 45-year-old. Compared to my current position, I think more family time rounds him out more than even more wealth.
On the other hand, if my family was struggling to put food on the table, working as hard as I can to prevent that would take priority over "being present in the room while they play". I'm not saying making this analysis makes me excited about not "putting in more work" or not being "more wealthy". I'm saying that this leads me to more fulfillment and having the "why" answered helps me act in my own best long-term interest.

---

Last words on this....You won't always live up to your ideal. For most things that is ok. (I'll let you in on a little secret...I've skipped a lot of workouts out of laziness....). But you now shouldn't have an excuse of not knowing what you should do. When you don't live up to your ideal, counter to what society tells you, you should feel bad about it. Then harness those feelings into doing better next time, so you no longer feel bad about it. (crazy right?). Do this repeatedly for the next 30 years and instead of feeling ashamed of your lot in life, you will wake up feeling fulfilled and in a place that most people in society will envy.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Saad Khan]

This thread isn't for everyone.

Many people are born knowing exactly what they want. Others grew up in an environment (like religion) that ingrained strong motivations into them. This thread isn't for you

If you don't think you can achieve everything you set your mind to. This thread is also not for you.

If you think you can achieve whatever you set your mind to, but you just don't know what you want to do or whether it's worth doing...This thread is for you.

There have been several periods in my life when I didn't have strong drives or clear goals. I see a lot of bright young individuals on here having a hard time figuring out what they want and being slowly eaten away by the nihilism bug. You can see the symptoms written all over their face. They know what they need to do to accomplish things(ACTION), but they do just about everything but that. They waste their time soaking up as much self- help as they can. They seek validation and hope to be pushed by others into action. But instead of accomplishing things they terrorize themselves with analysis paralysis. Advice like "Just figure out what you want" falls on deaf ears because if they knew what they wanted, they would just do it! Obviously.

Here's the bad news: I am 35 and still don't know exactly what I want.

Here's the good news: I was still able to get motivated enough to become successful by my (and most people's) standards. The best part is you can too!

---

#1. Stop expecting to know exactly what you want​

You aren't going to solve for "the meaning of life" while soaping yourself up in the shower. The greatest philosophical minds in all of history haven't been able to make a conclusive argument. Remember that you can't derive an ought from an is (is-ought problem). Stop trying to logic or reason your way out of this. Most of your growth now has to happen by taking cues from your emotional faculties.

#2. Settle for being directionally correct​

The great news is that you don't actually have to know what you want to achieve it. Being directionally correct is enough to accomplish great things. Act on anything you can be sure is at least in the right direction. You may not know if your idea to mow laws for money is going to be the right one, but it sure is in the right direction toward getting what you want than just sitting on your butt and playing video games all day.

#3. Use heuristics to help shortcut endless analysis​

When I was most lost, I came up with the following heuristic that helped guide me: "When I think of a successful 45-year-old man that I have the upmost respect for, what traits does he have and what has he accomplished". For me, the answer was a man that had a good relationship with his family, enough money to be financially free from outside pressures, empathetic, strong, and willing to do what he believes is right. This answer eventually became my north star. Every single "Should I make this sacrifice" question instantly became easier to answer. If taking the pattern of thought to it's extreme will not lead me to become that 45-year-old man, it is now considered wrong for me.

I was obviously younger when I thought about this, so be sure to add a good 20 years to your age when you're doing this. It doesn't work when it's in the past or immediate future.

Remember.....The point of this exercise is to find what you respect in this older person. Not your parents. Not your neighbor. Not society. They don't have to live with you for the rest of your life. You may find your answer has nothing to do with wealth. That may mean that getting a decent paying job and spending most of your time with friends/family is actually what you value most. THATS OK. Don't let others bully you into being ashamed of that. You can live a happy fulfilled life without being wealthy or an entrepreneur. Stop this business nonsense and go focus on things that matter to you. (Although I'm guessing if you found yourself on these forums.....there is a good chance that businesses/wealth/freedom is important to you...)

---

Examples​

---

When I find myself in a situation where I am torn about doing something, I try to get down to exactly what is stopping me from doing it. Usually, it is one of these.

Nihilism​

Many bright-eyed teens fall into nihilism when they realize that happiness and fulfillment are internally derived. It is easy to use this "logic" to justify not making sacrifices and choosing the "easy" path. "What's even the point?". I'll tell you. Using this theory can justify you laying in a closet your entire life as long as you are hooked up to nutrition and the proper dose of feel-good drugs. How does this picture vibe with your image of a 45-year-old that you respect? That's what I thought.

For that reason, nihilism is not the answer. It is wrong for you. Remember, you don't need to try and objectively disprove an unfalsifiable theory (impossible!). You only need to prove it is subjectively wrong for you.

Whenever you catch yourself justifying something with "does it even matter", you need to either find a better reason or do what you know needs to be done.

@fastlane_dad and I pull this exact example out from time to time. When one of us tries to sandbag an idea with some flavor of nihilism, the other will just say "well that reasoning is just going to get us into the closet" and that usually ties up that train of thought immediately.

Laziness​

My ideal 45-year-old man doesn't say no to things just because he is lazy. Unless you literally don't have enough nutrition or you have some kind of physical injury, energy is actually endless. Your question is whether the outcome is worth the mental fortitude it would take for you to push past the sloth. If the only reason for not doing something is laziness, then that means you have no reason not to do it.

Irrational fear​

If fear is the only reason for not doing something with great potential benefits, then ask yourself what the actual realistic worst outcome is. Is it really that bad in the grand scheme of things? If not, then your fear is likely irrational. My ideal 45-year-old man has built up a thick skin and doesn't waiver to irrational fears. There's only one way of getting there.....

Conflicting values​

This is the hardest one of them all. Sometimes fulfilling core values involve sacrificing other core values (at least temporarily). I find that the 45-year-old heuristic still helps immensely. Life is a balancing act.

For example: All else equal, I still want more wealth! But businesses usually take a good amount of time and commitment. Since I have young kids and "enough" resources, I have decided to sacrifice my work commitment for even more family time at almost every crossroads. This is consistent with my view of a respectable 45-year-old. Compared to my current position, I think more family time rounds him out more than even more wealth.
On the other hand, if my family was struggling to put food on the table, working as hard as I can to prevent that would take priority over "being present in the room while they play". I'm not saying making this analysis makes me excited about not "putting in more work" or not being "more wealthy". I'm saying that this leads me to more fulfillment and having the "why" answered helps me act in my own best long-term interest.

---

Last words on this....You won't always live up to your ideal. For most things that is ok. (I'll let you in on a little secret...I've skipped a lot of workouts out of laziness....). But you now shouldn't have an excuse of not knowing what you should do. When you don't live up to your ideal, counter to what society tells you, you should feel bad about it. Then harness those feelings into doing better next time, so you no longer feel bad about it. (crazy right?). Do this repeatedly for the next 30 years and instead of feeling ashamed of your lot in life, you will wake up feeling fulfilled and in a place that most people in society will envy.

Thank you for taking the time out to write this thread. It helped me answer some questions that were holding me back.

I think instead of wanting the material possessions like the fast car, big mansion, we should think about what kind of a person does one need to become to attract those possessions or what you want. This would help us not only priortize our goals, but also develop the traits needed to become that person.

 

[fastlane_dad]

All great points here a few things to keep in mind is the congruence you must achieve between what you are trying to 'achieve' and your identity.

Just like you can't half a$$ entrepreneurship (it's a mindset!) - same goes for almost any other task on hand.

You yourself must get into the head of your future self and literally ask what that person would do or NOT do.

I'm sure you have heard the analogy of being offered a cigarette. You aren't sitting there pondering whether to have a smoke or not - your answer is usually fairly loaded -- ' No Thank you - I Don't Smoke'. You don't VIEW yourself or identify with a smoker.

This has a lot to do with actions you take today and in the future.

With fastlane/entrepreneurship - ASK yourself on the daily -- Am I someone who CONSUMES endlessly, or am I putting out PRODUCTS / CONTENT for others to consume? Sometimes this simple question helps reframe your identity, and a more clear way to move forward. As much as I commit fallacies of the former - @NeoDialectic and I also identify strongly with the latter - because that's one of the sure fire ways to get yourself to a 8 figure business!

Think about certain people you admire on these boards and otherwise - what do you think their identity is to keep them moving forward in the right direction?

Sometimes it's not even about chasing a certain goal / destination as much as doing daily actions congruent with whom you believe you are. Results will many times follow. You will iterate over the years, learn from mistakes, get bigger and stronger but you MUST have a certain identity you resonate with in almost every facet of life.

Same goes for ALL other aspects of life. As another example and and one I personally might use - let's say with fitness - am I the type to WATCH other athletes train / play games or am I the one who goes out there to TRAIN and become the best I can physically be MYSELF?

I know the answers to many of these questions for myself - do you?

 

[Antifragile]

With fastlane/entrepreneurship - ASK yourself on the daily -- Am I someone who CONSUMES endlessly, or am I putting out PRODUCTS / CONTENT for others to consume?

Excellent advice.

The quality of questions you ask yourself will determine the quality of your life. Better questions = better life.

Other examples:
Q: why am I so fat?
A: you eat like a pig, don’t exercise etc.

Better Q: what can I do today to get into better shape?
A: skip breakfast, use same time for a jog. Etc.

Q: why I am so poor?
A: because you suck

Better Q: what can I do to become wealthy?
A: take action, invent solutions, read and apply, try and try another way etc.

The quality of questions you ask yourself determines you future better than any metric I know.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Eudaemonia]

You reminded me of a peterson's lecture, and his point was the following :

If you dont know what to do or where you want to go, fix the problems you have right now. Im sure you can think of dozens of things you know are bad for you and still do them. Maybe its not getting enough sleep, not exercising enough, etc.

The point is, if you live, you will have problems. Fix those. Fix the problems you have and new doors will open up to you.
As an example, you finally started exercising, and now you discover you love running ! That might be your new passion (5k, 40k, ironman ?), and will help you further discover the type of person you love, what you want to pursue in any endeavor and finally find your ikigai.

basically : you -> problems -> operate as a problem solver -> level up -> bigger horizon and better understanding of the self

i should ponder on this idea and make a post heh

 

[Kevin88660]

Leo Strauss did give a philosophical answer against nihilism.

He pinpoints three cities as three roots for western civilization. Athen gives you reason. Jerusalem gives you morality. Rome reminds you about the pursuit of excellence.

Modern nihilism is about too much Athen and Jerusalem and forgetting about Rome.

 

[Funky Monkey]

Yup its basically how will you have wanted to live your life on you death bed question that helps me every day.

Although one thing is I feel I have figured out what I want by looking at the end of roads of other peoples lifes (aka reading biographies) and ideologies then taking bits and pieces that I really liked and adding them as goals/ bucket list things to do

For example for me:
I really like how Mario Tomic and Sean Nal have built their physique so I want to do that,
I like how Sam Parr set out to make 20M by 30 [I also did MJ's math based on some of things I wanted to buy] and thats a goal,
I like the Budda & Peter Singer's (tho I don't go full extreme that Singer does) idea of trying to minimize suffering so I went plant based and looked into how to maxmize my time and money to do good [So far 80000hours.org has been good but its job focused rather than business],
I like Zillakami's music and want to one day make some songs like that,
I like The Satanic Temple's tenets especially V: "Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs" & Mike Isratel's "Arguing To Convince"
Bill Perkins idea of not dying with remaining money and including memorable life experciences (but not chasing hedonism) so I went to carribbean,sky dived,flew a plane,shoot guns,and more

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[NeoDialectic]

Yup its basically how will you have wanted to live your life on you death bed question that helps me every day.

I think the deathbed question can be useful (especially at older age), but I don't personally like it as much. While it is a decent start at getting you to think about "what is important to you", it's fatal flaw is that I would have different priorities/values if I knew I was dying tomorrow than if I knew I had 50 years. So even if I could know exactly what is important to me at that moment, it doesn't necessarily follow that it will be important to me the rest of my life. Many people intuit this and that's why it doesn't stick or land as hard with them. This is where my idea of thinking about an ideal older person shines.

For example....If I am dying in X amount of days, you won't find me exercising or in the gym. I would be disgusted at even the thought of that! What's the lesson here? I shouldn't work out? I don't value strength? etc.. The 45 year old ideal man thought doesn't have this issue. If I want to be athletic at 45, I need to work out.

 

[Antifragile]

I think the deathbed question can be useful (especially at older age), but I don't personally like it as much. While it is a decent start at getting you to think about "what is important to you", it's fatal flaw is that I would have different priorities/values if I knew I was dying tomorrow than if I knew I had 50 years. So even if I could know exactly what is important to me at that moment, it doesn't necessarily follow that it will be important to me the rest of my life. Many people intuit this and that's why it doesn't stick or land as hard with them. This is where my idea of thinking about an ideal older person shines.

For example....If I am dying in X amount of days, you won't find me exercising or in the gym. I would be disgusted at even the thought of that! What's the lesson here? I shouldn't work out? I don't value strength? etc.. The 45 year old ideal man thought doesn't have this issue. If I want to be athletic at 45, I need to work out.

I am not sure that’s the way to look at the death bed question. The way I see it is: it’s not that I’ll be dying in 2 days... It’s that I can be dead anytime, but I expect and hope to live for a long while. That means that when I project myself into the future (whatever timeframe that may be), I imagine being on my death bed, close to dying and asking myself “What are my major regrets? Did I live a good life? If I could do it again, what would I have done differently?”

The answers are imaginary and guide how I live my life. I doubt I’ll regret NOT spending more time at the office, or building a business. But I sure will regret if I don’t spend time with my kid, my family. I probably will regret if I didn’t stay in good physical shape because my death was now potentially caused by me neglecting my body. I probably would regret not trying to do things even if they were hard (like starting a business!). Reading books and bettering myself, so I am more centred sounds like a good idea. I’ll regret not being a better father, so I should do my best today, right now… to learn and behave the best way I imagine a good father should. I would regret if I didn’t have love in my life, so my wife is my priority.

The list goes on… and with your gym example, it always leads to the same answer for me - stay in good shape, yes - if if you get so obsessive with it that it cuts into something else and takes away from my kid, I expect to regret that decision.

Just my 0.02 cents.

 

[NeoDialectic]

I am not sure that’s the way to look at the death bed question. The way I see it is: it’s not that I’ll be dying in 2 days... It’s that I can be dead anytime, but I expect and hope to live for a long while. That means that when I project myself into the future (whatever timeframe that may be), I imagine being on my death bed, close to dying and asking myself “What are my major regrets? Did I live a good life? If I could do it again, what would I have done differently?”

The answers are imaginary and guide how I live my life. I doubt I’ll regret NOT spending more time at the office, or building a business. But I sure will regret if I don’t spend time with my kid, my family. I probably will regret if I didn’t stay in good physical shape because my death was now potentially caused by me neglecting my body. I probably would regret not trying to do things even if they were hard (like starting a business!). Reading books and bettering myself, so I am more centred sounds like a good idea. I’ll regret not being a better father, so I should do my best today, right now… to learn and behave the best way I imagine a good father should. I would regret if I didn’t have love in my life, so my wife is my priority.

The list goes on… and with your gym example, it always leads to the same answer for me - stay in good shape, yes - if if you get so obsessive with it that it cuts into something else and takes away from my kid, I expect to regret that decision.

Just my 0.02 cents.

I don't feel like your framing makes me like it any better. I agree that it is a good exercise to see what are the most important things in your life from a 10,000 ft perspective. It is especially useful for someone that is overthinking something that is happening in their life.

But when I run the exercise to figure out prescriptions for my life, it fails to bring me to my ideal vision.

Your example only confirms it for me. "I doubt I'll regret NOT spending more time at the office". That's right. I'd give that answer 10 out of 10 times as well. Yet.....if I didn't spend time at the office and spent all my time looking for a family, I wouldn't have succeeded in the ways I value today. Nothing in the deathbed question would lead me to a more complicated intermingling of first/second/third order values that create a full life.

To take it a step further, I think most people would be ashamed to give answers contrary to the typical ones. I think most people would agree that spending 100% of their time solely on being with family and nothing else is NOT an ideal use of ones life. Yet, a person that is spending too much time with their family and not enough time on themselves will never say "I doubt I'll regret NOT spending more time with family". It's way too morally loaded.

Meanwhile, the 45-year-old ideal self question doesn't present those normative pressures. Once you picture your 45-year-old self, you just have to do the things that will get you there. There are no hard truths you have to swallow or bite the bullet on.

I may totally be overthinking it though....Just sharing the idea that clicked for me!

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.