Book Marketing: Farming and Hunting

[Gymjunkie]

Hi!

Found a good article about book marketing that features good metaphors for it: farming and hunting. While I agree with article that Farming should be dominant in your marketing, some Hunting is needed too.

http://chrisfoxwrites.com/2016/01/27/marketing-is-farming-not-hunting/

What do you think? What do you do for Farming(email list? community postings? etc) and Hunting?

 

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[Omni]

This blogger is mixing too many things into hunter (supply based approach + marketing) vs farmer (demand based approach).
Truth is, you need to add value to the market. And the best way to do that is to satisfy an unmet demand. Then you market the hell out of it.

 

[Gymjunkie]

This blogger is mixing too many things into hunter (supply based approach + marketing) vs farmer (demand based approach).
Truth is, you need to add value to the market. And the best way to do that is to satisfy an unmet demand. Then you market the hell out of it.

Hmm... I think this is more about tactical/strategical things for marketing and which is which (broadcasting ''Buy my book'' or doing one-off promos is Hunting and building reputation in online communities like Reddit or FB groups is Farming). That's what this article is more about for me... value providing isn't even something that needs to be addressed (its obvious).

 

[Omni]

Hmm... I think this is more about tactical/strategical things for marketing and which is which (broadcasting ''Buy my book'' or doing one-off promos is Hunting and building reputation in online communities like Reddit or FB groups is Farming). That's what this article is more about for me... value providing isn't even something that needs to be addressed (its obvious).

My comment above was referring to a different section of the article, under
"Plant the right crop:
Hunter: Write your awesome invasion book. Get a cool cover. Write the best blurb you can. List the book on Amazon. Start marketing, which means alerting social media, maybe buying some Facebook ads, and possibly submitting your book to book sites like ENT or BookBub.
Farmer: The farmer goes to Amazon and looks at the Alien Invasion subcategory. They study the books there. What are the covers like? How do the blurbs read? What are the tropes those books are using? What are the heroes / heroines like?"

In regards to his hunter/farmer analogy to marketing, it's bad. Reason being, if you're a fantasy writer, you don't have to go to comic con do book signings for it to be successful. The blogger advocates a complete full on approach to marketing where you live out all the marketing mediums, post on forums, attend events, comment on people's relevant posts, etc. I disagree here and instead believe in the 80/20 of the marketing medium for the product delivered. If PPC and email marketing is getting a huge ROI who cares if this guy categorizes it as hunter vs farmer. Whatever works, do more of it.
TLDR: I agree with his stance on commitment being key to success. Disagree on his categorization of marketing mediums such as PPC/email blasts/media blitz as ineffective.

 

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[GregK]

On my 9/5 the distinction between sales "hunter" v "famer" is as follows:

Hunter: aggressively makes sales calls all day pushing for new clients.

Farmer: develops existing accounts with to their full potential (I.e. don't sell customer just one product, sell them all the products you offer and make the supper loyal, brick wall, etc.)

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Gymjunkie]

My comment above was referring to a different section of the article, under
"Plant the right crop:
Hunter: Write your awesome invasion book. Get a cool cover. Write the best blurb you can. List the book on Amazon. Start marketing, which means alerting social media, maybe buying some Facebook ads, and possibly submitting your book to book sites like ENT or BookBub.
Farmer: The farmer goes to Amazon and looks at the Alien Invasion subcategory. They study the books there. What are the covers like? How do the blurbs read? What are the tropes those books are using? What are the heroes / heroines like?"

In regards to his hunter/farmer analogy to marketing, it's bad. Reason being, if you're a fantasy writer, you don't have to go to comic con do book signings for it to be successful. The blogger advocates a complete full on approach to marketing where you live out all the marketing mediums, post on forums, attend events, comment on people's relevant posts, etc. I disagree here and instead believe in the 80/20 of the marketing medium for the product delivered. If PPC and email marketing is getting a huge ROI who cares if this guy categorizes it as hunter vs farmer. Whatever works, do more of it.
TLDR: I agree with his stance on commitment being key to success. Disagree on his categorization of marketing mediums such as PPC/email blasts/media blitz as ineffective.

I don't think he went into that much extreme. He didn't say be on all forums and social medias. But do be on some most relevant ones. Simple fact is that the more active you are on few marketing mediums the more you are farming and building up your author platform.

Def. agree that PPC is needed, and thus I said too that authors better do both - farming and hunting. But problem is, these days authors think uploading a book to Amazon and putting it up for free and shooting it to some email blast sites is marketing. That is a thing he's probably going against. As far as marketing goes this is minimal thing to do (and it is hunting).

 

[Gymjunkie]

On my 9/5 the distinction between sales "hunter" v "famer" is as follows:

Hunter: aggressively makes sales calls all day pushing for new clients.

Farmer: develops existing accounts with to their full potential (I.e. don't sell customer just one product, sell them all the products you offer and make the supper loyal, brick wall, etc.)

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Yes but that is not applied to this industry so definitions should be a bit different. But in general true.

 

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[Gregory Diehl]

If this is true, I'm in a lot of trouble. I'm a terrific hunter. I can convince nearly anyone to give me money if I have them in front of me. Never did learn much about cultivation though.

 

[Lex DeVille]

If this is true, I'm in a lot of trouble. I'm a terrific hunter. I can convince nearly anyone to give me money if I have them in front of me. Never did learn much about cultivation though.

Might be time to start.

The person who gives you money because he finds you valuable is more valuable than one you must convince.

If your product is good there's probably no need to convince.

If it's not, then you've created a one and done customer who won't come back.

Not much value for either of you then.

 

[Gregory Diehl]

Might be time to start.

The person who gives you money because he finds you valuable is more valuable than one you must convince.

If your product is good there's probably no need to convince.

If it's not, then you've created a one and done customer who won't come back.

Not much value for either of you then.

I've found the concept of the "product that sells itself" to be largely a myth. Or as Henry Ford put it, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they'd have asked me for a faster horse." People don't always see value until you educate them about it.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

I've found the concept of the "product that sells itself" to be largely a myth. Or as Henry Ford put it, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they'd have asked me for a faster horse." People don't always see value until you educate them about it.

Kind of like the myth that people can't get rich unless they win the lottery.
90% of the world has found wealth to be "largely a myth" so might as well not try.
But you should probably stick with what you know and not consider other angles.

I didn't say anything about a product that sells itself. I said value doesn't have to be convinced.
Henry Ford gave people a faster horse without them having to ask...
There's a difference between presenting & convincing by the way.

And since we're name dropping, Seth Godin created his empire on the foundations of value and permission marketing.
But Seth Godin and the thousands of other entrepreneurs who sell stuff that "sells itself" are probably myths too.
Strange how that same myth never had to convince me to buy his books.

Strange indeed.

 

[lowtek]

I've found the concept of the "product that sells itself" to be largely a myth. Or as Henry Ford put it, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they'd have asked me for a faster horse." People don't always see value until you educate them about it.

Despite the claims of virtually every marketer out there, very few products are so revolutionary that customers need to be educated on it in the way that people needed to be educated on automobiles. I don't think your analogy is very apt, particularly for the field of ebooks.

 

[Gregory Diehl]

Kind of like the myth that people can't get rich unless they win the lottery.
90% of the world has found wealth to be "largely a myth" so might as well not try.
But you should probably stick with what you know and not consider other angles.

I didn't say anything about a product that sells itself. I said value doesn't have to be convinced.
Henry Ford gave people a faster horse without them having to ask...
There's a difference between presenting & convincing by the way.

And since we're name dropping, Seth Godin created his empire on the foundations of value and permission marketing.
But Seth Godin and the thousands of other entrepreneurs who sell stuff that "sells itself" are probably myths too.
Strange how that same myth never had to convince me to buy his books.

Strange indeed.

It appears I have inadvertently antagonized you. I'll see myself out.

 

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[Gregory Diehl]

Despite the claims of virtually every marketer out there, very few products are so revolutionary that customers need to be educated on it in the way that people needed to be educated on automobiles. I don't think your analogy is very apt, particularly for the field of ebooks.

Most of my career has been built by working with individuals and companies creating products that needed to convince people to try something new or foreign to their previous buying habits.

I think it would have more to do with the topic of the ebook, not the format of electronic books themselves.

 

[Lex DeVille]

It appears I have inadvertently antagonized you. I'll see myself out.

Whatever floats your boat.

If "convincing" people gets you the results you want then go with it.

For the record, I'm not convinced.

Still there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Gregory Diehl]

Whatever floats your boat.

If "convincing" people gets you the results you want then go with it.

For the record, I'm not convinced.

Still there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Key parts of the process are an open mind and civil discussion. I have no interest of convincing you of anything without those prerequisites. I came here admitting to my own shortcomings and was greeted with flagrant oneupmanship. As I'm new to this forum, I'm not sure if that's the general tone I should expect here or you're just an outlier. I guess I will find out.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Key parts of the process are an open mind and civil discussion. I have no interest of convincing you of anything without those prerequisites. I came here admitting to my own shortcomings and was greeted with flagrant oneupmanship. As I'm new to this forum, I'm not sure if that's the general tone I should expect here or you're just an outlier. I guess I will find out.

I guess you will.

 

[Gymjunkie]

Key parts of the process are an open mind and civil discussion. I have no interest of convincing you of anything without those prerequisites. I came here admitting to my own shortcomings and was greeted with flagrant oneupmanship. As I'm new to this forum, I'm not sure if that's the general tone I should expect here or you're just an outlier. I guess I will find out.

Dude you might be overreacting.. don't take criticism so hard.. You came in with strong limiting belief and you got a strong answer..

As far as, hunting.. do not be running from it or avoiding it etc. As said, we all need both but we all come from certain side. Some better at one thing, others at others.. look at Gary V, great salesman, but smart enough to build a bigass service company to retain customers and deliver results while he sells with his strengths - one on one sales with higher level execs etc.

So you are good and while you'll need to do some farming yourself (like email list) other stuff you can outsource to your team . And you'll win. Play to your strengths while also protecting the weaknesses.

And as far as 'product sells itself' vs convincing.. these are extremes.. very few things sell themselves and very few are revolutionary that needs explanation. Most are just grey mass that needs to find the right value proposition and communication style for it etc. As proven by the fact that most people think they have USP yet they don't or it's just a copy of someone elses. So you're both right pretty much!

 

[Gregory Diehl]

Dude you might be overreacting.. don't take criticism so hard.. You came in with strong limiting belief and you got a strong answer..

As far as, hunting.. do not be running from it or avoiding it etc. As said, we all need both but we all come from certain side. Some better at one thing, others at others.. look at Gary V, great salesman, but smart enough to build a bigass service company to retain customers and deliver results while he sells with his strengths - one on one sales with higher level execs etc.

So you are good and while you'll need to do some farming yourself (like email list) other stuff you can outsource to your team . And you'll win. Play to your strengths while also protecting the weaknesses.

And as far as 'product sells itself' vs convincing.. these are extremes.. very few things sell themselves and very few are revolutionary that needs explanation. Most are just grey mass that needs to find the right value proposition and communication style for it etc. As proven by the fact that most people think they have USP yet they don't or it's just a copy of someone elses. So you're both right pretty much!

My intention was to state that farming was my weakness, and that I was becoming aware I was going to have to improve my weakness if I want to be successful as a self-published author. I'm not sure what else anyone else was trying to disagree with me about. I'm happy to have a discussion on the nature of the innovation, education, and buying patterns in the market. I'm sure we all have very different perspectives. Mine just happens to be from having done a lot of market education ("convincing") of products and services people didn't know they wanted.

 

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[Gymjunkie]

My intention was to state that farming was my weakness, and that I was becoming aware I was going to have to improve my weakness if I want to be successful as a self-published author. I'm not sure what else anyone else was trying to disagree with me about. I'm happy to have a discussion on the nature of the innovation, education, and buying patterns in the market. I'm sure we all have very different perspectives. Mine just happens to be from having done a lot of market education ("convincing") of products and services people didn't know they wanted.

Broadest statements are always risky to be limiting beliefs( or limited perspectives at least).

Even if it's true for your experience to say that you dealt with mostly needing to sell new stuff that needs explanation, that is not even 1/thousand of a percent of all businesses so that's where your statement was causing disagreement. Total true for you but not true in general basically. For every Henry Ford there are thousands of local businesses that aren't revolutionary and sell purely because of good location.. or good prices.. or whatever else.. Thus calling it 'largely a myth' was called out..

So it's just different experiences and POVs.. but your's in this case was.. limited.

Back to the topic, I really don't think it's bad to know Hunting. It helps. If you do one launch only and are not building writing career then it will help do a better launch but Farming comes in when you will try to turn readers of the book into clients and upsell them stuff. Would be interesting to learn what you plan to do in terms of farming in future.