Best Way to Move from EU to US? Any Success Stories?

[Kevin88660]

I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.

You can consider this.

Build a location independent online business first, and slowly figure out where you want to go next.

When you have more money you will have more options.

 

[RealDreams]

Yes and I did, because of three reasons: my diplomas aren't really good, I graduated in June and so don't have any experience, and I'm Belgian so expected to speak both French and Dutch, which I don't. Internationals have it easier as they only have to speak English.





I guess it depends on which type of business you start. If you are doing a window cleaning business or (an all-time fav on this forum) an online marketing agency, you don't need much to get started (but you violate the commandment of entry). Now, an airline, that's something else....however, I don't think money is the biggest problem. There are plenty of people that fund bad ideas (like, really bad ideas), so you can probably find someone to fund yours, especially if your idea is good. Whether it'd be funded by family, friends, VC, bank, the employees themselves, crowdfunding, an incubator, a university, the government, NGOs, or the National Wealth Fund of Saudi Arabia (lol), "entrepreneur" is the new fancy thing now, everyone wants their own company that have "a mission" which is "to help", "design" or "empower people" blahblahblah it's always the same words. I'm making fun of it, but it works well. I was reading some weeks ago about this startup that wanted to bring medical care to those without insurance being valued at 1 billion. 1 billion. "Hey Jerry, how did you find that idea? Oh, I just wanted to offer affordable care to those without insurance". If it isn't making money out of poverty, i don't know what is. It is brilliant though, because it's a win-win for everybody. Want your company funded tomorrow? Do something "social" with the words "empowerment", "women", "minorities" or "LGBT". People will be fighting to fund you, for virtue signaling on one hand and by fear to have their reputation damage if they don't on the other.

I'm getting off topic.

Stay in Europe. Build value here. Or come join me in Poland ; )

Yeah that's true. You can probably start offline businesses with little capital. I wonder if that's possible in Italy, though (since you have to pay the government even if you make 0 sales...).

Today I realized there's always a way to solve a problem...and I'm not talking about business, I'm talking about life.

I'll stay in Europe for now (I decided not to drop out from University for now), but I'll get to the USA one day, no matter what.

I'm figuring out which business I can start now in Italy. I thought of either consulting (web design/digital marketing) or an online business (and when I think of online business I can't but think of dropshipping lol).

You can consider this.

Build a location independent online business first, and slowly figure out where you want to go next.

When you have more money you will have more options.

I thought about this. I thought of dropshipping but I still have a bias in me that says "It will be a waste of time and money" even though I never tried it so I can't even tell.

I'm learning to code right now, but even at that point, before I learn to create useful apps, 2-3 years will pass.

I'm immersed in a crippling scarcity mindset. I have 0 streams of income at this moment and making the first stream of income seems like the most difficult thing in the world when you are just beginning. I guess many people here can share this feeling.

Analysis paralysis + learned helplessness + shiny objects syndrome and here you have the shittiest mindset ever. I'm working to fix this...

 

[DiamondDog]

Would you get married normally if it wasn't for you wanting to move to the UK?
I think that's a difficult decision. I'm still 20 and getting married is at the bottom of my wish-list right now.

But that's a great plan. Going there as a tourist for 6 months. I didn't think about that in regards to the USA. I think you can stay in the USA for 90 days with an ESTA. But I would need money to live there and without a visa you can't work there legally.

Since you are a lawyer I imagine you have enough money saved up. You just need to go out there every day and approach chicks and mission accomplished.

Haha, no no. I already have an English girlfriend that lived with me for half a year in my country. Now my part of the deal is to go there for 6 months as well.

I'm 27 and honestly I wouldn't want to get married this young or out of necessity. I'd prefer to do it when the time feels right. If I get married soon, it's only because I want to be with this woman in person all the time. Long distance sucks.

I'm a lawyer in a developing country so I don't make enough compared to decent first world income (I also got laid off in July, I worked in the oil industry and you know what happened to oil prices). I'll probably lose some money doing all this but it's worth it to me.

I'm more concerned about my business making enough to keep me alive in the UK while being able to reinvest (much higher cost of living compared to Bolivia). In addition to that, I'll be less employable in the UK and I will need a job to keep the business running and growing as well as starting operations in the UK.

Not a logical decision at all! It's all emotional.

 

[SkyLake]

1. Forget about becoming a great web developer so that some company will hire you and sponsor you for a visa or some shit like that.
There are plenty of web devs in America already. No one will ever sponsor you unless you have a PhD or 10+ years of experience. Even then, forget about a green card. And on top of that.. do you really want to go slowlane just to immigrate? And have your future and dreams in the hands of a foreign company?
Never depend on someone else.

2. Get out of of the shithole that has become Italy, like, yesterday. You have until January to move to the UK iirc. London is the closest you'll get to American culture and can do attitude (but still miles behind). Find a way to make £5,000 by January, that will be enough to rent a small room in London and have some living expenses for a couple months. Hell, you could do it with less.

3. Start an actual business that will make you $1.5M cash. Use $1M of that to get the EB-5 Visa (It's $900,000 now + lawyers who will take anywhere from $25,000 to $100,000 depending on how fast you want to immigrate/problems with your application). You'll have $500k left to grow your business further in the US/start another business and have enough money to set a new life wherever you want.

 

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[RealDreams]

I'm from America, so I don't know if there's a lot I can offer in the way of a helpful answer. For immigration, you may just have to apply for a visa, or green card, and hope you get entry. Having a degree helps somewhat, since you aren't trying to come here with no job skills (i.e. liable to be living on welfare).

As for the culture in Italy, you're still going to have people discouraging you here. Although I don't imagine as much. My advice would be to treat immigrating here as a process the same way you would treat entrepeneurship as a process.

You're gonna have to start climbing that mountain. Figure out what the first step is for applying to entry here. If you're denied, keep applying. With Donald Trump, immigration's been a bit more stringent. Nevertheless, I think you should still try to apply and see if you can get in. We could always use more entrepeneurs here.

Thanks for the input!

I definitely see this as a long process and I expect a lot of obstacles throughout the way but there's no point of ever giving up for me since this is probably my only real goal right now.

 

[seaten69]

I can definitely understand why you'd like to move. Your environment can make a huge difference on how you perform (even a life-changing one).

Just wondering: does it have to be specifically the US? I get the American dream, but it's lost in the US and the future is bleak. Ask @Kak LOL.

There are many other countries where you might be able to move to more easily that have a much more entrepreneur-friendly culture. In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.

Check this ranking:

Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

Country rankings based on economic freedom. World and global economy rankings from the Index of Economic Freedom are published by The Heritage Foundation.

www.heritage.org

Italy is #74 in economic freedom so I feel your pain. Anything in the top20 should be a huge improvement already. For example, as an Italian, you can easily move to Ireland which is #6. By the way, the US is actually #17.

mine's in 139

 

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[RealDreams]

---

I hate disclaimers but this advice could be really wrong and if you follow it could get you in a ton of trouble. I'm not a lawyer or immigration specialist and this is my own opinion just for your interest and entertainment. Seriously, get an immigration lawyer.

--





My wife and I are from Europe (Slovakia & UK) and moved to Austin, TX in 2014.



There seem to be 4 main ways to emigrate to the US:



1) Family (marry a US citizen or US permanent resident)

2) Use skills to get a sought-after job (e.g. Nurse, IT Specialist → H1B Visa)

3) Be a person of extraordinary ability (e.g. you are Melania Trump → EB1 Visa)

4) Invest in a business or expand an existing business (EB5, E2 or L1)





We went for option (4).



Within that there are (3) main options we explored



EB5 - you need to invest either $500,000 into a designated development zone, or $1M into another US business. The majority funds need to come from your own savings and you will be asked to demonstrate the source of your investment. This visa has a direct path to a green-card, which ultimately leads to citizenship.



E2 - only for citizens of counties that have an E2 agreement. I checked online and it seems Italy does. This visa requires that you make a substantial investment in a business, usually interpreted as more than $100k. You need to make most/all of the investment yourself and they will check the source of the funds.

The financial bar is much lower than the EB5 - however it comes at a cost.

There is no direct path to citizenship from the E2 visa. You will be welcome to stay as long as your business remains viable, and it will be re-assessed every 3-5 years. When the business is no longer viable, you will have to leave. Seriously - no direct path to citizenship. Also, if you have dependent children, they will have to leave or find their own path to a vsia when they turn 21, regardless of how long they have lived in the US.



L1 - you have a business overseas with a subsidiary in the US. If you already have a business overseas, you can purchase a business in the US. Or you can start a US subsidiary of your overseas business from scratch.

If you worked for an overseas business for a period of time (I think it's a year), and they have a US subsidiary, they can sponsor you as an executive/high value employee (there may be other classes).

There are different classes of L1 for managers/executives and business owners - with their own requirements and obligations. For example, there are restrictions on the ownership structure of the US and foreign-owned business.

Like the E2 visa, this is a nonimmigrant visa. However, unlike the E2, there is a way to convert the visa from a non-immigration to immigration intent, which allows you over time to qualify for a green-card and, ultimately, citizenship.



My wife had emigrated previously from Slovakia to the UK - no lawyers required!! - but this is America and I would say no matter which path you take, you NEED strong legal advice to emigrate to the USA.



We actually went through 6 lawyers before we found someone who really worked well for us and got us where we wanted to be. Each lawyer will usually want at least a $1,000 retainer. It gets expensive.



We are currently on an L1/L2 visa.



We love living in Texas. Everyone has been massively welcoming to us. I love the CAN DO attitude. Success is celebrated! We have good friends over here, a great life. America has been EVERYTHING I wanted her to be. I love this country, absolutely love being here - being a good citizen, loving our community, building wealth and spreading goodwill.



It can be done and if you want to make it happen, it will for you. I wish you all the joy and happiness it has brought to us.

Thanks a lot. I'll keep this in mind. I really believe you about the environmental attitude and mindset. That stuff is very powerful and the right influence might turn the worst loser into a successful man.

At the end of the day, we are always being conditioned and influenced by somebody, you might as well choose somebody who indirectly pushes you to achieve your goals, instead of people who bring you down every day.

I have always been dreaming to move to the US. Spent many summers there. Did a roadtrip for 3 months on the entire east coast and I'm still in love. @Colin MacLeod describes some of the options pretty well. I also had a consultation with an immigrant lawyer regarding O-1 visa. Even as a medic myself the hurdles are tough but its doable.



If you keep consistent and keep working for it you will eventually get there. I see a few viable options in your case.



1) Just keep doing the greencard lottery. I know the chances are bad but a lot of immigrants in the US still take part in it, because of the limitations of their own visa. A lot of visas dont guarantee you a greencard. So might as well do it and just hope for the best.



2) Study and do a Masters at an american university. This is probably the easiest/quickest way for you and enables you to work on multiple visa-pathways.

a) a US based Msc is far more attractive for US-based employers and ignores the H1B visa CAP. The time you spend in the US networking can/will open many doors (job opportunities) for you.

b) You might meet the love of your life, who by chance is an american. (psssst: family based greencard). This is by far the easiest freaking way.

c) You might be part of a US startup, which goes on to generate revenue and employ people (I think this goes towards the E2 Visa).



In my case, I'm an european medic and I'm doing the US exams and tring to get a residency training post. If I succeed I get to work on a J-1 or H1B visa for 3 years. After that through J-waiver program or H1B sponsoring employer I would be able to work as a doc and earn the greencard.



A different avenue I explored was the E2 Visa and O-1 Visa. I have an impressive looking startup here which raised capital and by investing about 100k in the US, I could get a E2 Visa there. This is much simpler, when you have the money. This isnt true in my case.



The O-1 Visa (Einstein Visa) is for extraordinary abilities and I apparently have a good chance for it. But after reflection it isnt my cup of tea.



If you are serious I do believe your best bet is to go for a masters degree in the US and work on the different options to make it happen. BUT during COVID most visas are cancelled.

Thanks man. I'll definitely do the Green Card Lottery, what I meant, though, is that I would rather invest the majority of my time and emotional energy on outcomes with a higher probability of happening.

I agree with you, studying and (hopefully) being accepted into an American University for a Master is probably the most viable way for me right now. I'm 20 and I have barely €1000 saved up, so I can't invest into a business in the USA right now. My parents actually want me to keep studying in University and honestly, I don't see a way out. I might move in the UK and get a job, but that job will probably pay me badly and so, is it really worth it? Hard to tell.

I thought of starting a web design (+ some digital marketing stuff) business here in Italy and truly put all my effort into it while I study in University. I actually feel like this is the only way for me right now.

If I manage to make €3000-€5000 (net profit)/month I could save enough money to either move into the UK and start another business there (with way more favorable laws for businesses) or invest these money into a US business.

The H1B visa seems to be great, too. The sad fact is that it only lasts 3 years.


I guess the creating value thing is the most important thing here. It's no different than starting a business, your "customer" will be your employer, though.


I think in this game win the people who want it the most and are willing to become high value individuals who can truly help companies (or study in America, which requires a very good GPA to begin with...). There's no cheating, yes you can get married or hope for the lottery, but honestly, how likely is that to happen? In Italy you have 1% of chance of winning the DV lottery. I will have to try 100 times before I'll win it, if only I would be alive by then.


Let's make this happen...

 

[RealDreams]

Hey @VicFountain

I understand your situation, as I live in Sapin and we have similar cultures. I encourage you on your decision of moving to the U.S., it is certainly something that I always have in my mind and would like to try in the future.

But, I want to tell you a couple of things that I've been thinking on this matter.

1. Even though moving to a place like the States can be very helpful for your entrepreneurial venture, it is not the main thing, it is probably (at least in my case) an excuse on why you are not where you want to be. Think about it. There are no successful people in your country? Because here in Spain it is plenty. (Although they usually move to Andorra later, that's another story)

2. If you still want to move, which is understanding, why directly to the US? (Knowing the difficulty of it). I mean, if you're looking for a more entrepreneurial-minded place, maybe you could think of the UK, Switzerland, or any other country in Europe, easier to access now.

I hope this gives you some ideas.

I'm quite sure Spain is already better than Italy. I've seen a lot of internet companies established in Spain who sell themselves as "Italian" companies. That makes me wonder.

I see what you mean. You are saying that all this thing I have is just a huge bias. I honestly doubt it's that way. There surely are business owners in Italy, but most businesses are oligopolies (or companies started in the early 1900) and the opportunity for small start ups is laughable.

I went to "entrepreneurship courses" in my University and all they could talk about was "raising funds" and I never heard somebody mention "create value" or innovate and solve problems. That just shows what's the average business mindset here.

There are a lot of Italians (even in this forum) who share my same sentiment, so I doubt this is a bias. This is more a fact than anything else.

I agree, on the other hand, about the "why the US?". That is a "bias" I have and a personal desire which I always had as I said in the beginning of the post. I didn't say the US is the only country good for entrepreneurs, but in its wholeness, in its entirety, it is for me. There are many factors that take place in my evaluations of a "good country" and the environment/success distribution is a huge factor for me.

Also it's crazy how many Italians leave the country. This explains a lot of things. I really feel like I'm in a jail and learned helplessness doesn't always help. That's why I'm making sure to get out of this situation asap.

 

[Jon L]

This is the impression I get in Texas, I spent 2 years doing bluecollar jobs with immigrants/illegals and it isn't fun. Could be very different in other parts of the U.S for sure.

I lived in California most of my life. The frustration with immigrants is this:

Decently large sections of California used to be beautiful, but now look like Tijuana, Mexico because millions of Mexicans have moved in, illegally, and have brought with them their third-world mentality. The small city where I lived used to be beautiful, but over the course of 20-30 years, you now have roadside stands with signs made of plywood and spray paint, houses that were brand new, remodeled, painted, now look like trash heaps. Most Mexicans are really good people, but, because they're poor, a larger percentage of them go into crime and gangs, which makes the entire city unsafe.

The recommendation to not go into low-skill, blue-collar jobs is a good one.

 

[Martin.G]

source?

Well $900.000, EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program

 

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[Kak]

I'd agree with you if we didn't almost nominate Bernie Sanders. We've always had fringe elements, but the Left has taken over probably 30 percent of the country. They dominate a good portion of the Democratic party along with the vast majority of the education system (K-college), the media, Hollywood, etc.

I agree, but I think your ratio is off. The left has taken over 100% of the country.

They have taken over the republican party now which was used to be the only hope for a smaller government. Look at our governor in Texas with his lockdowns and mask orders. Look at the Republicans in the senate embracing the growth of government (but not too much growth because that other arbitrary number thought up by Democrats would be fiscally irresponsible).

Look at the president demanding political posturing from the fed. What amounts to... Let's blow bubbles because I don't want it to pop during my presidency.

It makes me laugh when someone talks about small government using Democrats as the baseline. As if being for a smaller government than the Democrats makes you "small government."

Them: "They're big government Democrats."

Me: "Yeah whatever commie junior, you support 85% of their spending."

Make no mistake. No one is shrinking government. It is growth rate at 100% or growth rate at 85%.

 

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[Anon79341]

I feel almost the same, the crab mentality in my country is tough. The good news is #15 in economic freedom and entrepreneurship is being strongly promoted. As a developing country there must be a lot of problems to be solved.

Maybe your situation is different, though I think being a EU citizen gives you a lot of advantages when doing business in that area.

 

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[RealDreams]

Most people that I know that have immigrated there came from countries where rapes and murder happen on a daily basis, so I understand why people would want to live there. When you come from a Western EU country like I do though, let's be honest, it is difficult to find better. Even the slowlane is good. 38h/workweek, 25 days paid vacation, comfortable salary. The problem is that you end up competing with people from all over the world because everyone wants to move there, which makes it for me, who has no experience, a very tough place to get a job at, while all the Italians, French, German and Dutch got jobs without problems.

So I moved out of my country where I had no value (and let's be fair, i moved out because I didn't learn nor developed valuable skills and this is my fault) to Poland: half the salary, but probably easier for me to gain experience and develop skills. Funny, while Accenture Belgium wouldn't even look at my resume, Accenture Poland considers me. Believe it or not, it feels good to have value.

But all of that doesnt matter since I dont want to be a slowlaner anyway. Making 1500 euros in Brussels or 900 euros in Poland is literally the same as I am not getting a job for the money, but to survive while building something else on the side. And believe it or not, but Warsaw is a much nicer place to survive in than Brussels.

Sorry for talking so much about myself,

M.

Did you really struggle to find a job? I remember a post of yours (correct me if I'm mistaken) where you said you have 2 degrees and a Masters or something like that. Haven't those helped at all? How many applications did you send and what was the response rate?

Anyways, getting a job isn't the problem. Nor is the slowlane. It's a problem if you have no plans for the future (fastlane projects). I'd argue that you'd be better off working a high paying job which can work really well as a funding system for a real business, compared to working as a sweeper and having to work years before having saved enough money to start a decent business.

I'm curious to hear stories about people who managed to start a successful business in the last decade by funding their system through a $1200/month salary job. Maybe it was possible 20-30 years ago, but nowadays the system is way too chaotic and I doubt someone can do it this way. I guess it also depends on where you live and what the living cost is.

Like I see all these middle class people working their slowlane jobs and ending up wasting their money on BMW's and Mercedeses (it's their decision of course and I'm still a nobody to judge). Imagine if you saved every penny and invested it into a real business lol.

 

[Deleted78083]

Did you really struggle to find a job? I remember a post of yours (correct me if I'm mistaken) where you said you have 2 degrees and a Masters or something like that. Haven't those helped at all? How many applications did you send and what was the response rate?

Yes and I did, because of three reasons: my diplomas aren't really good, I graduated in June and so don't have any experience, and I'm Belgian so expected to speak both French and Dutch, which I don't. Internationals have it easier as they only have to speak English.

Anyways, getting a job isn't the problem. Nor is the slowlane. It's a problem if you have no plans for the future (fastlane projects). I'd argue that you'd be better off working a high paying job which can work really well as a funding system for a real business, compared to working as a sweeper and having to work years before having saved enough money to start a decent business.

Anyways, getting a job isn't the problem. Nor is the slowlane. It's a problem if you have no plans for the future (fastlane projects). I'd argue that you'd be better off working a high paying job which can work really well as a funding system for a real business, compared to working as a sweeper and having to work years before having saved enough money to start a decent business.

I'm curious to hear stories about people who managed to start a successful business in the last decade by funding their system through a $1200/month salary job. Maybe it was possible 20-30 years ago, but nowadays the system is way too chaotic and I doubt someone can do it this way. I guess it also depends on where you live and what the living cost is.

Like I see all these middle class people working their slowlane jobs and ending up wasting their money on BMW's and Mercedeses (it's their decision of course and I'm still a nobody to judge). Imagine if you saved every penny and invested it into a real business lol.

I guess it depends on which type of business you start. If you are doing a window cleaning business or (an all-time fav on this forum) an online marketing agency, you don't need much to get started (but you violate the commandment of entry). Now, an airline, that's something else....however, I don't think money is the biggest problem. There are plenty of people that fund bad ideas (like, really bad ideas), so you can probably find someone to fund yours, especially if your idea is good. Whether it'd be funded by family, friends, VC, bank, the employees themselves, crowdfunding, an incubator, a university, the government, NGOs, or the National Wealth Fund of Saudi Arabia (lol), "entrepreneur" is the new fancy thing now, everyone wants their own company that have "a mission" which is "to help", "design" or "empower people" blahblahblah it's always the same words. I'm making fun of it, but it works well. I was reading some weeks ago about this startup that wanted to bring medical care to those without insurance being valued at 1 billion. 1 billion. "Hey Jerry, how did you find that idea? Oh, I just wanted to offer affordable care to those without insurance". If it isn't making money out of poverty, i don't know what is. It is brilliant though, because it's a win-win for everybody. Want your company funded tomorrow? Do something "social" with the words "empowerment", "women", "minorities" or "LGBT". People will be fighting to fund you, for virtue signaling on one hand and by fear to have their reputation damage if they don't on the other.

I'm getting off topic.

Stay in Europe. Build value here. Or come join me in Poland ; )

 

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[Morgan77]

This isn't about moving to the US but about your last couple posts on wanting to start an online business.

I think dropshipping has a bad reputation on this forum, and in some ways rightfully so, however I do believe it's a good way to test a product without needing a massive investment. See how the market reacts to it through facebook ads, influencers, or however. If you can see there's a need / want for this product, focus more on your branding, then make a larger investment and order your product in bulk to a fulfilment warehouse or even to yourself if you wanted to do it all, and cut down on those lengthy shipping times. Of course this requires searching for a product that can fill a need, and building a brand with longevity rather than something that will only be around for a couple of months.

Just an idea for you.

I'm also 20 and recognise mindset is massive in the start of your entrepreneurial journey. Make sure to only focus on ONE thing and master that one thing.

 

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[DiamondDog]

I'm on the same boat as you atm but I'm seeking to move to the UK for personal (romantic reasons).

Here are my options:
1.- Pay an absurd amount of money for a Master's Degree and hope that I can find a job in the UK afterwards.
2.- Apply for a work visa but this is unlikely to be successful since I'm a lawyer in my home country and I would basically have to study/train for another 4 years, which I don't want to do. It's also very costly.
3.- Live there on a tourist visa for 6 months while managing my business remotely. I'm about to do this but it's only for limited time.
4.- Get married to a UK citizen.

I'll probably end up getting married after those six months. Welp.

 

[RealDreams]

Would that work? Being a coder is something you can do anywhere, so however great you become, and whoever in the US (or anywhere else) wants to hire you, would they really want to bring you to the US, or prefer to have you work where you are?

I don't want to just be negative, I understand that you are considering employment by a US company as stepping-stone, a means to an end, I'm just not sure this specific option will help you.

I know what you mean. I have to research that, but I'm sure there must be a way since there are many people from third-world countries who managed to move that way.

Another option I've read is to get hired by a company (in Europe) which has offices in the USA, and eventually, ask for transfer.

 

[Martin.G]

Why don't create a business online and then move it to the USA? It's better than start something from scratch after you sold your business for $1 million. Also, the $500k it's not longer available because now the minimum is $1 million.

 

[RealDreams]

H1B
-The H1B Visa has a maximum length of 6 years. Its usually capped each year which means that only that many "new ones" will be issued per year. A H1B Visa is also an immigrant-intent visa (dual intent actually) and in that space of 6 years you are allowed to apply for greencard processing. Your major advantage in comparison to chinese or indian nationals is that there wont be a long backlog of italian nationals waiting for greencard processing. Once you have the greencard you can stay and work as you please.
-The real disadvantage of the H1B visa is actually your reliance on the employer. So unless its a very safe job and safe company you will always have a little uncertainty in the back of your head as you may loose your job unexpecdetly. When you loose your job you also loose your VISA. (In all fairness the US gives you a little time to find an alternative job; but they are tough).
-The actual difficulty is to secure a job and persuade an employer to "sponsor" your initial H1B. Thats why doing a masters in the US and networking is in your situation the best strategy.
__

If you look at all the other visas they all have some downsides. For example:
-marrying a US citizen for the sake of living in the US is fundamentally a toxic and immoral setup but if its true love, why not.
-the Investors Visa (EB5 I think 500-1mil) takes many years to have processed; Literally opening a branch up (E2) and investing 100k to build your business in the US is almost always better/easier.
-All the non-immigrant intent VISAs offer no security. Once you loose the visa, you gotta go home.
-The O-1 Visas are very difficult to get.

Remember, you only have the real "american freedom" when you get that greencard. Only immigrant-intent VISAs count towards that.


I know we are all in this forum because of the desire for true entrepreneurship and true financial freedom and that a lot of the "mantra" is directed against employment, university and typical "slowlane" activities. Over the last few years I have been observing how many of my younger cousins and friends (19-24) have taken the same stance. They want to hustle but they cant for whatever limitation. They go to university to satisfy their parents and they fall down this hole they never wanted to be in. This age group has become in my view increasingly "lost" and doesnt really know what they want to do. They know what they want to have but dont know how to go about it. This is in Germany.

When I read how your parents want you to study, how you only have 1000$ saved up, how the business regulations are tough on startups and how you "thought" of starting some company might be the only way, I get the exact same VIBE from you too.

Yeah man, the lack of control at a job creates anxiety. I can't imagine getting fired and having to go back to my country lol. I think as long as you create enough value for the company you shouldn't have any problem, though.

Getting a master in USA really seems to be the "easiest" way. It kind of pisses me off cause I feel like I'm wasting $30-40k on a useless course just to be able to move in the USA. My current GPA is also very low so I should wake up and start putting more effort in my studies. I've read you can't enter an American university with a GPA lower than 3.0. I have a cumulative GPA of 2.18 right now but I still have 2 years left of the BSc so I'm quite sure I can increase it to 3.0 if I put all my effort into it.

Oh man, you have no idea lol. I asked 20-30 people at University "why did you pick this course? What do you want to do in 10 years?" and everyone replied with "I don't know, we'll see what happens". People nowadays can't plan long-term and believe things "will happen" by themselves. That's what I'm referring to as crab bucket mentality here in Italy. Everyone goes to college because everyone thinks that's the right thing to do, and nobody questions the status quo. Nobody.

I hate the university system in general. 100% theory 0% practice. It also depends what you are studying. But I'm 100% sure that even people who get out with top grades have no idea how to put all that stuff into practice. Universities can't teach you real world feedback. That's what I hate about the system. Having to study 3-5 years before I'm considered "ready" to go out in the real world. That's madness.

 

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[WabiSabi]

Take this advice with a grain of salt.

This is the impression I get in Texas, I spent 2 years doing bluecollar jobs with immigrants/illegals and it isn't fun. Could be very different in other parts of the U.S for sure.

 

[abcdefgh]

This is the impression I get in Texas, I spent 2 years doing bluecollar jobs with immigrants/illegals and it isn't fun. Could be very different in other parts of the U.S for sure.

That's understandable. But they're illegal immigrants

I could be wrong about this, but I believe the US is in decline. There's still a ton of opportunity here, but its not the 'land of the free, home of the brave' that it once was. Regulation has increased, we're spending trillions freely that will have to be repaid. Mostly, though, we've stopped believing in ourselves. We have an education system that focuses almost exclusively on the negative portion of our history.

My daughter's principal said this as his main point in his kick-off email to parents, 'we begin this year with a Land Acknowledgment...[blathering about how mean we were to the native people]... The result was devastation and is a reminder of the truth that racial domination and institutional racism has defined our nation's history from the beginning.' He seriously said that. I copied and pasted.

Out of all the things he could chose to focus on at the start of a new school year, and he picked that? Granted, I live in the Seattle area. I doubt a principal would do that in Dallas.

ALL countries have bad things in their past, but if you start emphasizing the bad, and stop celebrating the good, some really bad things are going to happen. In a country with as much influence in the world at the United States, that's not a good development.

So ... I'm not trying to completely discourage you from coming here, and there are certainly pockets of positivity, but its not all peaches and cream either.

These are the left-wing areas. Comparing Seattle to Fort Worth is almost like comparing Italy to UK. Very different culture.

And for the love of Christ, get out of Seattle. America isn't in decline, but Seattle definitely is.

 

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[abcdefgh]

I'd agree with you if we didn't almost nominate Bernie Sanders. We've always had fringe elements, but the Left has taken over probably 30 percent of the country. They dominate a good portion of the Democratic party along with the vast majority of the education system (K-college), the media, Hollywood, etc.

They don't dominate. They're a vocal minority. Bernie only had a chance because every other candidate was horrible. And despite that, he still lost to a demented moron.

The country isn't declining. The people on the right just aren't as vocal.

 

[RealDreams]

Keep this in mind (not that it's a showstopper, just another hoop to jump through):

"From 1 January 2021, free movement will end and the UK will introduce a points-based immigration system. The new system will treat EU and non-EU citizens equally and transform the way in which all migrants come to the UK to work. Anyone coming to the UK to work, excluding Irish citizens, will need to apply for permission in advance.

Under a points-based immigration system, anyone coming to the UK for work must meet a specific set of requirements for which they will score points. Visas are then awarded to those who gain enough points."

Source: The UK's points-based immigration system: an introduction for employers (accessible version)

Nice, one more obstacle to deal with.

Be careful what you wish for. I know alot of people here are fed up with immigrants, though they'll never say it to you personally. They'll hire you but they look at immigrants as slave labor and generally disposable. I wouldn't move until you've got some real marketable skills, otherwise you'll be fighting at the bottom of the barrel.

As for entrepreneurial culture, the vast majority of people here are glued to their smartphones and never think of starting a business. Stuff is just hard everywhere right now with this covid crap, I'd stay put for 2 school years and revisit moving when the world is less crazy.

Well, even in Italy illegal immigrants are viewed the same. But yeah, I don't intend to get there illegally, cause that means one day (sooner or later) I'll be deported back in Italy and I'll be blacklisted from the USA for 10 years. For now I'll follow @Knugs advice and make sure I raise my GPA so I can study in America after my bachelor's degree.

Your issue is similar to the issue I have with Germany. Creating a business entity takes months, cash and a lot of effort. When we created our UG form, we had to have a notary to get our papers signed. The state took 3 months to send us our company number, the bank took a long time to get the papers to the notary. We even had investors lined up before so that when we decided to create our company in october, it took, no joke , until febraury to see investors cash in the accounts. And moving the investors cash was the easiest thing.

Sure, in the UK you can create a company whilst sitting on your sofa in less than 10 minutes and have the most important papers in 2 weeks.

Perhaps you should view all of this from a different angle.

Creating a business in some european countries is an barrier to ENTRY issue.
Once you created the entity, you benefit from that barrier greatly.
No client thought this was some kind of student basement project which meant that I was taken serious. This is not the case in the UK; I would never trust a ltd. more than a Gmbh.

I want to point out that I also suffer immensely under "the grass is greener on the other side". I Moved out to the UK at 16 and stayed there for 9 years before I returned. Sure, Germany has its problems but it also has some things that you unfortunately take for granted. And its exactly these things that you take for granted which you might not have in another country.

Such as freedom, healthcare, social support, quality of life, food quality, freedom of expression etc.

I thought Germany actually had favorable laws for business owners. Didn't know it takes months to register a business.

Anyways, sure, it's a barrier to entry. But I believe that any business you start, you must have empathy for who you are selling to.

I'm half Italian and half Russian and honestly, I'd rather sell to Russians than to Italians. I consider myself more Slavic than Italian for some reason. I can't seem to get along with most Italians and I think it's an innate thing. But unfortunately, even in Russia the laws are quite shitty for business owners (if not worse).

MJ says passion doesn't matter, but honestly, you must at least have some empathy when it comes to selling to people. It's not all about cashing. You must understand what the people in a determined culture want, and unfortunately, I'm struggling figuring out what Italians want (besides soccer lol).

And I'm not hating anyone, it's just a gut feeling.

I definitely have shiny objects syndrome and I have a long track record of different hustles I never completed till the end. I don't want this to happen with this one goal of moving in the USA one day. I'll take it with me till I die lol.

Honestly, it is trading an extreme for another, especially now. Your passport enables you to live and work in 27 countries visa-free, why don't you just go to an entrepreneurial EU country? Try the Netherlands, it is full of Italians that ran away due to extreme bureaucracy. I, for example, recently moved to Poland (I'm from Belgium). Eastern and Central Europe are surprisingly hyper open to business and living and hiring cost is cheap. It is super easy to create companies and products which you can sell at a much cheaper price than if they were made in Denmark or Belgium, for example.

Stay in Europe (please). We need people like you to create value here. Don't participate to the brain drain. Also don't forget that the more problems a place has, the more solutions there are to be found and hence money to be made.

This makes sense, for sure. I'm not saying other EU countries suck, at all. I'm just saying this is a desire of mine and that's it. Someone wants a Lamborghini, and someone wants to move in a certain place. I'm the latter. Reminding myself I only live once makes me so obsessed I can't sleep most nights.

But I'll definitely consider moving into an European country as a steppingstone. That makes sense and I have nothing to lose by doing it.

The Netherlands are great and I've heard a lot of positive things about it, too.

I went to Krakow last year in vacation, I had an impression that the business environment wasn't very developed. How are you feeling there in terms of economic freedom?

 

[daniel_m]

Also, the $500k it's not longer available because now the minimum is $1 million.

source?

 

[Colin MacLeod]

My wife got offered I think L1 visa. Something like work for a US subsidiary and then moved to HQ. It was a headache for me even if we got married for me to get work permission as well in the end we decided against.

That's not been my experience. My wife has the L1 visa based on her business and I have the L2 as her spouse. I'm free to work for someone else or develop my own business on this visa.

 

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[Knugs]

That's not been my experience. My wife has the L1 visa based on her business and I have the L2 as her spouse. I'm free to work for someone else or develop my own business on this visa.

Reminds me of the irony of the J-2 visa, which is depending on the J-1 Visa. The J-1 Visa is tied to that one employer whilst the J-2 Visa can do whatever they want. The annoying part is that the J-2, I guess same as L-2, is lost as soon as the J-1/L-1 is lost. I heard some couples try to get a primary working visa in case the other one loses their jobs. I bet many people had this issue during first months of COVID.

The non-immigrant intent is the worst though. How do you build a life on that?

 

[Colin MacLeod]

The non-immigrant intent is the worst though. How do you build a life on that?

It's challenging for sure - harder with the E2 (which can't be converted to immigration intent) than L1 (which is considered "dual intent"). But my experience is long term there can be ways to adjust status with both, if that's what you want.

For me, the important thing is to build a business, creating market value that ultimately leads to a fast lane life. So given I didn't have enough for the EB5 when we came over, the E2 and L1 were the best paths open.

You can get a job and go down the manager L1 or high-skills H1B (possibly O1, there may be others) employment route. The upside is you can move the states relatively quickly. But that will tie your destiny to a job and potentially the whim of an employer or, at best, the whims of your chosen marketable skills. Probably for at least 5 years - which is a big chunk of your life.

I would rather develop businesses in Europe for a few years, leading to the point where you can expand that into the US.

Oh. And with either route, you can keep entering the Diversity Lottery as long as it's there. (Caveat to this - a lot of people do this - there's some debate about whether this indicates immigration intent, which may invalidate a non-immigration visa like the E2.)

Might not be your main strategy, but it can work.

My best friend won the diversity visa lottery about 20 years ago and has been a US permanent resident and, eventually, citizen ever since. I met a number of diversity lottery winners over the years. It's all possible, for sure.

 

[daniel_m]

Well $900.000, EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program

oh wow, i didn't even know that. I think most people still believe its 500K. Good stuff

 

[Deleted78083]

I'm figuring out which business I can start now in Italy. I thought of either consulting (web design/digital marketing) or an online business (and when I think of online b

Have a look at Estonia's e-residency and online making company facilities. I wrote a thread about this, search for e-residency.

 

[RealDreams]

I'm on the same boat as you atm but I'm seeking to move to the UK for personal (romantic reasons).

Here are my options:
1.- Pay an absurd amount of money for a Master's Degree and hope that I can find a job in the UK afterwards.
2.- Apply for a work visa but this is unlikely to be successful since I'm a lawyer in my home country and I would basically have to study/train for another 4 years, which I don't want to do. It's also very costly.
3.- Live there on a tourist visa for 6 months while managing my business remotely. I'm about to do this but it's only for limited time.
4.- Get married to a UK citizen.

I'll probably end up getting married after those six months. Welp.

Would you get married normally if it wasn't for you wanting to move to the UK?
I think that's a difficult decision. I'm still 20 and getting married is at the bottom of my wish-list right now.

But that's a great plan. Going there as a tourist for 6 months. I didn't think about that in regards to the USA. I think you can stay in the USA for 90 days with an ESTA. But I would need money to live there and without a visa you can't work there legally.

Since you are a lawyer I imagine you have enough money saved up. You just need to go out there every day and approach chicks and mission accomplished.

 

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