Best Way to Move from EU to US? Any Success Stories?

[Colin MacLeod]

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I hate disclaimers but this advice could be really wrong and if you follow it could get you in a ton of trouble. I'm not a lawyer or immigration specialist and this is my own opinion just for your interest and entertainment. Seriously, get an immigration lawyer.
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My wife and I are from Europe (Slovakia & UK) and moved to Austin, TX in 2014.

There seem to be 4 main ways to emigrate to the US:

1) Family (marry a US citizen or US permanent resident)
2) Use skills to get a sought-after job (e.g. Nurse, IT Specialist → H1B Visa)
3) Be a person of extraordinary ability (e.g. you are Melania Trump → EB1 Visa)
4) Invest in a business or expand an existing business (EB5, E2 or L1)


We went for option (4).

Within that there are (3) main options we explored

EB5 - you need to invest either $500,000 into a designated development zone, or $1M into another US business. The majority funds need to come from your own savings and you will be asked to demonstrate the source of your investment. This visa has a direct path to a green-card, which ultimately leads to citizenship.

E2 - only for citizens of counties that have an E2 agreement. I checked online and it seems Italy does. This visa requires that you make a substantial investment in a business, usually interpreted as more than $100k. You need to make most/all of the investment yourself and they will check the source of the funds.
The financial bar is much lower than the EB5 - however it comes at a cost.
There is no direct path to citizenship from the E2 visa. You will be welcome to stay as long as your business remains viable, and it will be re-assessed every 3-5 years. When the business is no longer viable, you will have to leave. Seriously - no direct path to citizenship. Also, if you have dependent children, they will have to leave or find their own path to a vsia when they turn 21, regardless of how long they have lived in the US.

L1 - you have a business overseas with a subsidiary in the US. If you already have a business overseas, you can purchase a business in the US. Or you can start a US subsidiary of your overseas business from scratch.
If you worked for an overseas business for a period of time (I think it's a year), and they have a US subsidiary, they can sponsor you as an executive/high value employee (there may be other classes).
There are different classes of L1 for managers/executives and business owners - with their own requirements and obligations. For example, there are restrictions on the ownership structure of the US and foreign-owned business.
Like the E2 visa, this is a nonimmigrant visa. However, unlike the E2, there is a way to convert the visa from a non-immigration to immigration intent, which allows you over time to qualify for a green-card and, ultimately, citizenship.

My wife had emigrated previously from Slovakia to the UK - no lawyers required!! - but this is America and I would say no matter which path you take, you NEED strong legal advice to emigrate to the USA.

We actually went through 6 lawyers before we found someone who really worked well for us and got us where we wanted to be. Each lawyer will usually want at least a $1,000 retainer. It gets expensive.

We are currently on an L1/L2 visa.

We love living in Texas. Everyone has been massively welcoming to us. I love the CAN DO attitude. Success is celebrated! We have good friends over here, a great life. America has been EVERYTHING I wanted her to be. I love this country, absolutely love being here - being a good citizen, loving our community, building wealth and spreading goodwill.

It can be done and if you want to make it happen, it will for you. I wish you all the joy and happiness it has brought to us.

 

[MTF]

I can definitely understand why you'd like to move. Your environment can make a huge difference on how you perform (even a life-changing one).

Just wondering: does it have to be specifically the US? I get the American dream, but it's lost in the US and the future is bleak. Ask @Kak LOL.

There are many other countries where you might be able to move to more easily that have a much more entrepreneur-friendly culture. In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.

Check this ranking:

Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

Country rankings based on economic freedom. World and global economy rankings from the Index of Economic Freedom are published by The Heritage Foundation.

www.heritage.org

Italy is #74 in economic freedom so I feel your pain. Anything in the top20 should be a huge improvement already. For example, as an Italian, you can easily move to Ireland which is #6. By the way, the US is actually #17.

 

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[JordanK]

Ireland has a very good business environment and is very entrepreneur friendly. However you’d want your business to be involved in tech so you can access the full European/US markets. We only have a small population here so physical products/ecommerce will suck.

The cost of living in Ireland is also one of the highest in Europe. It’s really draining. I know many companies who are set up and operate out of Ireland for tax reasons but the owners live mostly in the nice warm countries to the south or in the cheaper eastern countries.

The best way to use a European passport is to form LTD’s in business friendly countries Ireland/Estonia ect but base yourself in low COL places with good weather/lifestyle & entrepreneur culture.

EDIT: After going to the summit in Phoenix. I also want to move to the US eventually but I’ll probably have business operations in both Ireland & US. Its a long term play at this point.

 

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[Deleted78083]

I went to Krakow last year in vacation, I had an impression that the business environment wasn't very developed. How are you feeling there in terms of economic freedom?

I understand : )

I wish I could answer your question, but I haven't been here long enough to do so : ) I know that getting a residency card is really easy as you just need to notify them that...you'll be staying. That's it.

Here's what I would assume regarding business: people don't make much money and GDP increase is one of the highest of the entire union, which, from my perspective and mine alone, seems to make people more willing to do business. But this is a feeling. Last time I went to the butchery, the guy couldn't speak English and didn't try to sell me the entire shop, like it would have happened in South-America for example.

FYI, I know that Estonia and Latvia are really business oriented, Estonia is a developing startup hub and I almost stayed in Riga to create a hostel : p Hungary has the lowest corporate taxes of all EU (9%!!!!!!!!) and is strategically placed.

Since this conversation is just between us (lol) I'll share a thought I have been nurturing for a long time...former communist Europe is today what South-Korea and Singapore were in the 60's: rapidly developing, comparatively cheap, with a competent and motivated workforce. I have come to a point where I have almost visited all EU countries and when I compare behaviors, I imagine that in 50 years or so, the financial transfers will be done from East to West and not the other way around.

You need to add to that the thousands of Ukrainians and Belorussians fleeing their country and that need, in order to do so, be highly qualified. Whatever skills you need to hire, you will find. I know Belgians outsource a significant part of computer work to Polish coders for example.

Places I would have a hard time building businesses in (on top of France because their country is unbearably irreformable) are Romania and Bulgaria (no offense to these people) because they still have some old reflexes from Soviet times (corruption) which under no circumstances I will be dealing with. It is a shame, because there is A LOT of money to make there due to the comparatively lower level of development than the west. I am unsure about Croatia.

Bear in mind still that you're speaking with a guy whose been to all continents and ended up choosing Central and Eastern Europe as his favorite place on earth - I'm bias. My dream is to open self-sustaining farms and airbnbs in all post-Soviet EU countries and to travel by horse between them : P

Another country which is good for business is Spain. We don't talk much about them, but they have one of the biggest positive commercial balance of the EU. When I read TMF the second time, I searched the place in the EU with the most sun after MJ explained he had moved to Arizona. It turned out to be Sevilla.

I could talk for hours but I'll stop here. I think Europe is the best place on earth, it is the crib of our civilization, where most inventions have taken place, with incredible culture, history, languages, landscapes and possibilities. To quote Harari, the world has adopted European customs and lifestyle, and European democracy remained sought by everyone that doesn't live in one.

I haven't seen any place that offered as much as Europe did. But well, I haven't been everywhere either.

 

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[Knugs]

I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.

I have always been dreaming to move to the US. Spent many summers there. Did a roadtrip for 3 months on the entire east coast and I'm still in love. @Colin MacLeod describes some of the options pretty well. I also had a consultation with an immigrant lawyer regarding O-1 visa. Even as a medic myself the hurdles are tough but its doable.

If you keep consistent and keep working for it you will eventually get there. I see a few viable options in your case.

1) Just keep doing the greencard lottery. I know the chances are bad but a lot of immigrants in the US still take part in it, because of the limitations of their own visa. A lot of visas dont guarantee you a greencard. So might as well do it and just hope for the best.

2) Study and do a Masters at an american university. This is probably the easiest/quickest way for you and enables you to work on multiple visa-pathways.
a) a US based Msc is far more attractive for US-based employers and ignores the H1B visa CAP. The time you spend in the US networking can/will open many doors (job opportunities) for you.
b) You might meet the love of your life, who by chance is an american. (psssst: family based greencard). This is by far the easiest freaking way.
c) You might be part of a US startup, which goes on to generate revenue and employ people (I think this goes towards the E2 Visa).

In my case, I'm an european medic and I'm doing the US exams and tring to get a residency training post. If I succeed I get to work on a J-1 or H1B visa for 3 years. After that through J-waiver program or H1B sponsoring employer I would be able to work as a doc and earn the greencard.

A different avenue I explored was the E2 Visa and O-1 Visa. I have an impressive looking startup here which raised capital and by investing about 100k in the US, I could get a E2 Visa there. This is much simpler, when you have the money. This isnt true in my case.

The O-1 Visa (Einstein Visa) is for extraordinary abilities and I apparently have a good chance for it. But after reflection it isnt my cup of tea.

If you are serious I do believe your best bet is to go for a masters degree in the US and work on the different options to make it happen. BUT during COVID most visas are cancelled.

 

[Kak]

I can definitely understand why you'd like to move. Your environment can make a huge difference on how you perform (even a life-changing one).

Just wondering: does it have to be specifically the US? I get the American dream, but it's lost in the US and the future is bleak. Ask @Kak LOL.

There are many other countries where you might be able to move to more easily that have a much more entrepreneur-friendly culture. In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.

Check this ranking:

Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

Country rankings based on economic freedom. World and global economy rankings from the Index of Economic Freedom are published by The Heritage Foundation.

www.heritage.org

Italy is #74 in economic freedom so I feel your pain. Anything in the top20 should be a huge improvement already. For example, as an Italian, you can easily move to Ireland which is #6. By the way, the US is actually #17.

LOL Yeah, I am not very happy with this place at the moment, but it is far better for a foreigner than it is for the citizens. A foreigner can just leave if they want without a bunch of drama, exit taxes, renunciation or foreign sourced income taxes. I would way rather live here as a Canadian or European than as an American.

That said, the US, is the biggest consumer economy in the world to access. It is also the most competitive.

Doesn't EU passport allow free travel and living anywhere in the EU? I am not super familiar with it. If this is the case, I would be looking at Ireland. I think I have heard Malta also has a lot of economic freedom.

I second @MTF recommendation of the Heritage Foundation's index of economic freedom. They look at more than just tax burden.

 

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[Jon L]

I agree, but I think your ratio is off. The left has taken over 100% of the country.

They have taken over the republican party now which was used to be only hope for a smaller government. Look at our governor in Texas with his lockdowns and mask orders. Look at the Republicans in the senate embracing the growth of government (but not too much growth because that other arbitrary number thought up by Democrats would be fiscally irresponsible).

Look at the president demanding political posturing from the fed. What amounts to... Let's blow bubbles because I don't want it to pop during my presidency.

It makes me laugh when someone talks about small government using Democrats as the baseline. As if being for a smaller government than the Democrats makes you "small government."

Them: "They're big government Democrats."

Me: "Yeah whatever commie junior, you support 85% of their spending."

Make no mistake. No one is shrinking government. It is not growth rate at 100% or growth rate at 85%.

Yeah, I tend to agree, but won't win the argument if I say 100%.

I said what I said about the US being in decline because empires tend to last about 250 years, and they tend to follow predictable paths. We're following the same path.

I listened to an autobiography of Henry Ford a couple weeks ago, and am now listening to one on JD Rockefeller. They talk about things very differently than we do today. The words they used matched the stage of empire development that we were in back then. What we say today matches the stage we're in now.

Back then:

• Both men felt boundless enthusiasm for what they could accomplish in business
• They felt a deep sense of obligation to their fellow man
• They sought to serve the needs of their customers
• They had a strong dislike for people who wouldn't work for a living. Hard work cures all.
• Both men supported true charity cases (where the person can't work)
• They felt that well-organized, thoughtful institutions would cure society's ills.

Compare that to today. How many of us on this forum feel this way about ourselves, much less about the US? I'd say that my chief problem in business (and many of the people in this forum) is that I don't subscribe to those beliefs enough. Multiply that by 330 million people, and you have a country in decline.

 

[RealDreams]

I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.

 

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[Deleted78083]

Honestly, it is trading an extreme for another, especially now. Your passport enables you to live and work in 27 countries visa-free, why don't you just go to an entrepreneurial EU country? Try the Netherlands, it is full of Italians that ran away due to extreme bureaucracy. I, for example, recently moved to Poland (I'm from Belgium). Eastern and Central Europe are surprisingly hyper open to business and living and hiring cost is cheap. It is super easy to create companies and products which you can sell at a much cheaper price than if they were made in Denmark or Belgium, for example.

Stay in Europe (please). We need people like you to create value here. Don't participate to the brain drain. Also don't forget that the more problems a place has, the more solutions there are to be found and hence money to be made.

There is no entrepreneurship in perfect places. Don't like where you're living? Great, fix it. And make money doing so.


That being said, to answer your question, I suggest to study something there then to find a job while you are there. That's what my cousin did and now he lives there. Alternatively, you can always get married.

 

[Deleted78083]

Fascinating observations. Thank you for posting them. So if you consider Europe the best place on Earth, what is in your opinion the closest thing to it?

I used to be critical of Europe but when I started traveling more to other continents I realized that while for traveling I do consider non-European countries more interesting (because they're more exotic), for everyday living it's hard to beat Europe when it comes to infrastructure, safety, and convenience.

Stuff that happens every day in, say, Latin America (kidnappings, home invasions, muggings with guns), almost or very rarely happens in Europe.

When I now consider moving to a country like, say, Costa Rica, while the climate appeals to me a LOT (even the Canary Islands aren't close to the year-round hot climate of Costa Rica), the safety I grew up with makes me hesitant to move to a country with a crime rate that's probably at worst up to a few dozen times higher than overall in Europe.

As for infrastructure, I love the fact that I can order stuff from most online stores in Europe and receive the items in a few days. Or that I can easily travel between countries. Or that I can move to another country or live there for a few months a year without any or very little paperwork.

Indeed! Safety is really important to me too, so I would have a look at some Asian countries.

Asia:
China and Hong-Kong, if you don't mind the absence of democracy. South-Korea/Japan, if you can manage to fully blend into the culture. But the must remains Singapore. Low taxes, very high standard of living, international, safe, business oriented and clean. Should I have a family, Singapore is a place I'd like my kids to grow up in.
If you're looking for something cheaper and convenient, the Philippines is the way to go! While traditionally pro-US, they have taken a step towards China which means more trade and less democracy, but if you go there to make money (any type of company, the country is industrializing quickly and there are a sh*t loads of people) that should work. Downside is corruption. Same story for Vietnam, although rising tensions with China would make me choose the Philippines.

Middle-East
Alternatively, the Middle-East ain't bad either, especially now because of the enormous efforts and invested sums that these countries are making to get out of energy dependency (if you're looking for a reason why they are suddenly opening their doors to Israel, it is because money suddenly became more important than ideologies). On top of big real estate projects, governments (EAU, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Koweit) are currently distributing grants for people that want to start businesses (or simply do something with their lives after living off oil for 50 years), which means that there will be many people with money to spend, and many people that will want to do business. Also, these countries have traditionally a huge lack of both expertise and workforce.
Notable places would be Dubai for example, where I suspect the real estate market is about to collapse completely since all Westerners left because of Covid (and I doubt they are coming back). However, should I start an online company where everything is done over the internet, I would go to a smaller Emirate (and avoid Dubai et Abu-Dhabi) where taxes are equally low but cost of living is also much cheaper (there are 7 Emirates in total, so choose whatever you prefer). If you're looking for less mainstream, head to Qatar or Koweit. I would avoid Saudi Arabia atm because I do not believe the country to be stable yet. On the downside, note that the strict Islamic culture and the heat might be difficult to adapt to. To avoid that, you could try Israel, but the country is overcrowded and the real estate is waaaaayyyy too expensive. I think this region is about to undergo rapid and massive economic explosion because of the upcoming economic exchange between countries on one side, and the reconstruction of Syria and Beirut on the other.

Oceania
I lived one year in Australia, standard of living and pay are higher than in Europe and weather is amazing but 1/3 people will end up with skin cancer, so I dont think I'd want to live there. Also it is too far away from everything else and too big, deliveries instantly take three days and cost millions. If you are looking for a worse version of Australia, try New Zealand, the most overrated country on earth (i think people idealize far away places and NZ is so far away that everyone thinks it is the greatest country on earth while it looks like if France and Bosnia had decided to build a low quality amusement park to the image of their blended landscapes, no offense).

Africa is developing as the continent is about to create the biggest free-trade zone in the world, but I would wait for safety improvement before going there. In South-America, I would go for Uruguay or Chili, the problem of Argentina being their constant economic crises.

 

[Knugs]

I'm quite sure Spain is already better than Italy. I've seen a lot of internet companies established in Spain who sell themselves as "Italian" companies. That makes me wonder.

I see what you mean. You are saying that all this thing I have is just a huge bias. I honestly doubt it's that way. There surely are business owners in Italy, but most businesses are oligopolies (or companies started in the early 1900) and the opportunity for small start ups is laughable.

I went to "entrepreneurship courses" in my University and all they could talk about was "raising funds" and I never heard somebody mention "create value" or innovate and solve problems. That just shows what's the average business mindset here.

There are a lot of Italians (even in this forum) who share my same sentiment, so I doubt this is a bias. This is more a fact than anything else.

I agree, on the other hand, about the "why the US?". That is a "bias" I have and a personal desire which I always had as I said in the beginning of the post. I didn't say the US is the only country good for entrepreneurs, but in its wholeness, in its entirety, it is for me. There are many factors that take place in my evaluations of a "good country" and the environment/success distribution is a huge factor for me.

Also it's crazy how many Italians leave the country. This explains a lot of things. I really feel like I'm in a jail and learned helplessness doesn't always help. That's why I'm making sure to get out of this situation asap.

Your issue is similar to the issue I have with Germany. Creating a business entity takes months, cash and a lot of effort. When we created our UG form, we had to have a notary to get our papers signed. The state took 3 months to send us our company number, the bank took a long time to get the papers to the notary. We even had investors lined up before so that when we decided to create our company in october, it took, no joke , until febraury to see investors cash in the accounts. And moving the investors cash was the easiest thing.

Sure, in the UK you can create a company whilst sitting on your sofa in less than 10 minutes and have the most important papers in 2 weeks.

Perhaps you should view all of this from a different angle.

Creating a business in some european countries is an barrier to ENTRY issue.
Once you created the entity, you benefit from that barrier greatly.
No client thought this was some kind of student basement project which meant that I was taken serious. This is not the case in the UK; I would never trust a ltd. more than a Gmbh.

I want to point out that I also suffer immensely under "the grass is greener on the other side". I Moved out to the UK at 16 and stayed there for 9 years before I returned. Sure, Germany has its problems but it also has some things that you unfortunately take for granted. And its exactly these things that you take for granted which you might not have in another country.

Such as freedom, healthcare, social support, quality of life, food quality, freedom of expression etc.

 

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[MTF]

I understand : )

I wish I could answer your question, but I haven't been here long enough to do so : ) I know that getting a residency card is really easy as you just need to notify them that...you'll be staying. That's it.

Here's what I would assume regarding business: people don't make much money and GDP increase is one of the highest of the entire union, which, from my perspective and mine alone, seems to make people more willing to do business. But this is a feeling. Last time I went to the butchery, the guy couldn't speak English and didn't try to sell me the entire shop, like it would have happened in South-America for example.

FYI, I know that Estonia and Latvia are really business oriented, Estonia is a developing startup hub and I almost stayed in Riga to create a hostel : p Hungary has the lowest corporate taxes of all EU (9%!!!!!!!!) and is strategically placed.

Since this conversation is just between us (lol) I'll share a thought I have been nurturing for a long time...former communist Europe is today what South-Korea and Singapore were in the 60's: rapidly developing, comparatively cheap, with a competent and motivated workforce. I have come to a point where I have almost visited all EU countries and when I compare behaviors, I imagine that in 50 years or so, the financial transfers will be done from East to West and not the other way around.

You need to add to that the thousands of Ukrainians and Belorussians fleeing their country and that need, in order to do so, be highly qualified. Whatever skills you need to hire, you will find. I know Belgians outsource a significant part of computer work to Polish coders for example.

Places I would have a hard time building businesses in (on top of France because their country is unbearably irreformable) are Romania and Bulgaria (no offense to these people) because they still have some old reflexes from Soviet times (corruption) which under no circumstances I will be dealing with. It is a shame, because there is A LOT of money to make there due to the comparatively lower level of development than the west. I am unsure about Croatia.

Bear in mind still that you're speaking with a guy whose been to all continents and ended up choosing Central and Eastern Europe as his favorite place on earth - I'm bias. My dream is to open self-sustaining farms and airbnbs in all post-Soviet EU countries and to travel by horse between them : P

Another country which is good for business is Spain. We don't talk much about them, but they have one of the biggest positive commercial balance of the EU. When I read TMF the second time, I searched the place in the EU with the most sun after MJ explained he had moved to Arizona. It turned out to be Sevilla.

I could talk for hours but I'll stop here. I think Europe is the best place on earth, it is the crib of our civilization, where most inventions have taken place, with incredible culture, history, languages, landscapes and possibilities. To quote Harari, the world has adopted European customs and lifestyle, and European democracy remained sought by everyone that doesn't live in one.

I haven't seen any place that offered as much as Europe did. But well, I haven't been everywhere either.

Fascinating observations. Thank you for posting them. So if you consider Europe the best place on Earth, what is in your opinion the closest thing to it?

I used to be critical of Europe but when I started traveling more to other continents I realized that while for traveling I do consider non-European countries more interesting (because they're more exotic), for everyday living it's hard to beat Europe when it comes to infrastructure, safety, and convenience.

Stuff that happens every day in, say, Latin America (kidnappings, home invasions, muggings with guns), almost or very rarely happens in Europe.

When I now consider moving to a country like, say, Costa Rica, while the climate appeals to me a LOT (even the Canary Islands aren't close to the year-round hot climate of Costa Rica), the safety I grew up with makes me hesitant to move to a country with a crime rate that's probably at worst up to a few dozen times higher than overall in Europe.

As for infrastructure, I love the fact that I can order stuff from most online stores in Europe and receive the items in a few days. Or that I can easily travel between countries. Or that I can move to another country or live there for a few months a year without any or very little paperwork.

 

[Deleted78083]

I couldn't help but laugh my a$$ off with what you said about New Zealand and Australia.

Most people that I know that have immigrated there came from countries where rapes and murder happen on a daily basis, so I understand why people would want to live there. When you come from a Western EU country like I do though, let's be honest, it is difficult to find better. Even the slowlane is good. 38h/workweek, 25 days paid vacation, comfortable salary. The problem is that you end up competing with people from all over the world because everyone wants to move there, which makes it for me, who has no experience, a very tough place to get a job at, while all the Italians, French, German and Dutch got jobs without problems.

So I moved out of my country where I had no value (and let's be fair, i moved out because I didn't learn nor developed valuable skills and this is my fault) to Poland: half the salary, but probably easier for me to gain experience and develop skills. Funny, while Accenture Belgium wouldn't even look at my resume, Accenture Poland considers me. Believe it or not, it feels good to have value.

But all of that doesnt matter since I dont want to be a slowlaner anyway. Making 1500 euros in Brussels or 900 euros in Poland is literally the same as I am not getting a job for the money, but to survive while building something else on the side. And believe it or not, but Warsaw is a much nicer place to survive in than Brussels.

Sorry for talking so much about myself,

M.

 

[abcdefgh]

I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.

I'm from America, so I don't know if there's a lot I can offer in the way of a helpful answer. For immigration, you may just have to apply for a visa, or green card, and hope you get entry. Having a degree helps somewhat, since you aren't trying to come here with no job skills (i.e. liable to be living on welfare).

As for the culture in Italy, you're still going to have people discouraging you here. Although I don't imagine as much. My advice would be to treat immigrating here as a process the same way you would treat entrepeneurship as a process.

You're gonna have to start climbing that mountain. Figure out what the first step is for applying to entry here. If you're denied, keep applying. With Donald Trump, immigration's been a bit more stringent. Nevertheless, I think you should still try to apply and see if you can get in. We could always use more entrepeneurs here.

 

[Strm]

In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.

True, pretty much everything here can be done online and it's easy to start a business. We also offer e-residency for foreigners for them to easily start their businesses, but I don't know much about it.

On the other hand, I do think it's hard to move here and to get a job as a foreigner, especially in the near future due to the COVID. And the weather is shitty.

 

[Knugs]

Thanks a lot. I'll keep this in mind. I really believe you about the environmental attitude and mindset. That stuff is very powerful and the right influence might turn the worst loser into a successful man.

At the end of the day, we are always being conditioned and influenced by somebody, you might as well choose somebody who indirectly pushes you to achieve your goals, instead of people who bring you down every day.



Thanks man. I'll definitely do the Green Card Lottery, what I meant, though, is that I would rather invest the majority of my time and emotional energy on outcomes with a higher probability of happening.

I agree with you, studying and (hopefully) being accepted into an American University for a Master is probably the most viable way for me right now. I'm 20 and I have barely €1000 saved up, so I can't invest into a business in the USA right now. My parents actually want me to keep studying in University and honestly, I don't see a way out. I might move in the UK and get a job, but that job will probably pay me badly and so, is it really worth it? Hard to tell.

I thought of starting a web design (+ some digital marketing stuff) business here in Italy and truly put all my effort into it while I study in University. I actually feel like this is the only way for me right now.

If I manage to make €3000-€5000 (net profit)/month I could save enough money to either move into the UK and start another business there (with way more favorable laws for businesses) or invest these money into a US business.

The H1B visa seems to be great, too. The sad fact is that it only lasts 3 years.


I guess the creating value thing is the most important thing here. It's no different than starting a business, your "customer" will be your employer, though.


I think in this game win the people who want it the most and are willing to become high value individuals who can truly help companies (or study in America, which requires a very good GPA to begin with...). There's no cheating, yes you can get married or hope for the lottery, but honestly, how likely is that to happen? In Italy you have 1% of chance of winning the DV lottery. I will have to try 100 times before I'll win it, if only I would be alive by then.


Let's make this happen...

H1B
-The H1B Visa has a maximum length of 6 years. Its usually capped each year which means that only that many "new ones" will be issued per year. A H1B Visa is also an immigrant-intent visa (dual intent actually) and in that space of 6 years you are allowed to apply for greencard processing. Your major advantage in comparison to chinese or indian nationals is that there wont be a long backlog of italian nationals waiting for greencard processing. Once you have the greencard you can stay and work as you please.
-The real disadvantage of the H1B visa is actually your reliance on the employer. So unless its a very safe job and safe company you will always have a little uncertainty in the back of your head as you may loose your job unexpecdetly. When you loose your job you also loose your VISA. (In all fairness the US gives you a little time to find an alternative job; but they are tough).
-The actual difficulty is to secure a job and persuade an employer to "sponsor" your initial H1B. Thats why doing a masters in the US and networking is in your situation the best strategy.
__

If you look at all the other visas they all have some downsides. For example:
-marrying a US citizen for the sake of living in the US is fundamentally a toxic and immoral setup but if its true love, why not.
-the Investors Visa (EB5 I think 500-1mil) takes many years to have processed; Literally opening a branch up (E2) and investing 100k to build your business in the US is almost always better/easier.
-All the non-immigrant intent VISAs offer no security. Once you loose the visa, you gotta go home.
-The O-1 Visas are very difficult to get.

Remember, you only have the real "american freedom" when you get that greencard. Only immigrant-intent VISAs count towards that.


I know we are all in this forum because of the desire for true entrepreneurship and true financial freedom and that a lot of the "mantra" is directed against employment, university and typical "slowlane" activities. Over the last few years I have been observing how many of my younger cousins and friends (19-24) have taken the same stance. They want to hustle but they cant for whatever limitation. They go to university to satisfy their parents and they fall down this hole they never wanted to be in. This age group has become in my view increasingly "lost" and doesnt really know what they want to do. They know what they want to have but dont know how to go about it. This is in Germany.

When I read how your parents want you to study, how you only have 1000$ saved up, how the business regulations are tough on startups and how you "thought" of starting some company might be the only way, I get the exact same VIBE from you too.

 

[Santi M]

Hey @VicFountain

I understand your situation, as I live in Sapin and we have similar cultures. I encourage you on your decision of moving to the U.S., it is certainly something that I always have in my mind and would like to try in the future.

But, I want to tell you a couple of things that I've been thinking on this matter.

1. Even though moving to a place like the States can be very helpful for your entrepreneurial venture, it is not the main thing, it is probably (at least in my case) an excuse on why you are not where you want to be. Think about it. There are no successful people in your country? Because here in Spain it is plenty. (Although they usually move to Andorra later, that's another story)

2. If you still want to move, which is understanding, why directly to the US? (Knowing the difficulty of it). I mean, if you're looking for a more entrepreneurial-minded place, maybe you could think of the UK, Switzerland, or any other country in Europe, easier to access now.

I hope this gives you some ideas.

 

[Jon L]

I could be wrong about this, but I believe the US is in decline. There's still a ton of opportunity here, but its not the 'land of the free, home of the brave' that it once was. Regulation has increased, we're spending trillions freely that will have to be repaid. Mostly, though, we've stopped believing in ourselves. We have an education system that focuses almost exclusively on the negative portion of our history.

My daughter's principal said this as his main point in his kick-off email to parents, 'we begin this year with a Land Acknowledgment...[blathering about how mean we were to the native people]... The result was devastation and is a reminder of the truth that racial domination and institutional racism has defined our nation's history from the beginning.' He seriously said that. I copied and pasted.

Out of all the things he could chose to focus on at the start of a new school year, and he picked that? Granted, I live in the Seattle area. I doubt a principal would do that in Dallas.

ALL countries have bad things in their past, but if you start emphasizing the bad, and stop celebrating the good, some really bad things are going to happen. In a country with as much influence in the world at the United States, that's not a good development.

So ... I'm not trying to completely discourage you from coming here, and there are certainly pockets of positivity, but its not all peaches and cream either.

 

[abcdefgh]

Nice, one more obstacle to deal with.



Well, even in Italy illegal immigrants are viewed the same. But yeah, I don't intend to get there illegally, cause that means one day (sooner or later) I'll be deported back in Italy and I'll be blacklisted from the USA for 10 years. For now I'll follow @Knugs advice and make sure I raise my GPA so I can study in America after my bachelor's degree.


I thought Germany actually had favorable laws for business owners. Didn't know it takes months to register a business.

Anyways, sure, it's a barrier to entry. But I believe that any business you start, you must have empathy for who you are selling to.

I'm half Italian and half Russian and honestly, I'd rather sell to Russians than to Italians. I consider myself more Slavic than Italian for some reason. I can't seem to get along with most Italians and I think it's an innate thing. But unfortunately, even in Russia the laws are quite shitty for business owners (if not worse).

MJ says passion doesn't matter, but honestly, you must at least have some empathy when it comes to selling to people. It's not all about cashing. You must understand what the people in a determined culture want, and unfortunately, I'm struggling figuring out what Italians want (besides soccer lol).

And I'm not hating anyone, it's just a gut feeling.

I definitely have shiny objects syndrome and I have a long track record of different hustles I never completed till the end. I don't want this to happen with this one goal of moving in the USA one day. I'll take it with me till I die lol.



This makes sense, for sure. I'm not saying other EU countries suck, at all. I'm just saying this is a desire of mine and that's it. Someone wants a Lamborghini, and someone wants to move in a certain place. I'm the latter. Reminding myself I only live once makes me so obsessed I can't sleep most nights.

But I'll definitely consider moving into an European country as a steppingstone. That makes sense and I have nothing to lose by doing it.

The Netherlands are great and I've heard a lot of positive things about it, too.

I went to Krakow last year in vacation, I had an impression that the business environment wasn't very developed. How are you feeling there in terms of economic freedom?

Not trying to be preachy, but don't give up on getting to America. You'll love it.

 

[Jon L]

I am going to give this post some time on the radio show. Absolutely DEAD FREAKING ON.

Listen to the autobiography of Henry Ford first. Its an amazing book. It will fire you up. Its free on Audible.

 

[RealDreams]

I can definitely understand why you'd like to move. Your environment can make a huge difference on how you perform (even a life-changing one).

Just wondering: does it have to be specifically the US? I get the American dream, but it's lost in the US and the future is bleak. Ask @Kak LOL.

There are many other countries where you might be able to move to more easily that have a much more entrepreneur-friendly culture. In Europe, if climate is not a factor, you may consider Estonia which is investing heavily in the startup industry and a general digital economy which may be very helpful.

Check this ranking:

Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom

Country rankings based on economic freedom. World and global economy rankings from the Index of Economic Freedom are published by The Heritage Foundation.

www.heritage.org

Italy is #74 in economic freedom so I feel your pain. Anything in the top20 should be a huge improvement already. For example, as an Italian, you can easily move to Ireland which is #6. By the way, the US is actually #17.

I've never seen that list before, wow, 74th. You just added fire to my desire to get out from here lol.
I feel like I'm wasting my life literally.

I thought of the USA in particular cause that's always been a dream of mine and I feel like the environment is a huge factor as you said. Environmental psychology is one of the most proven things in life. That's the exponential distribution. 80% of the successful people (and businesses) are in 20% of the countries. And USA is definitely the one.

I also thought of moving to another European country, in case. I've heard of Estonia, too. Although, as I said, I have a strong desire to move in the USA in particular. So I honestly must make it happen one way or another.

The only way to move in the USA from what I've seen is:
- Get hired by an American employer for a position which has low offer in the market or for a position in which you are incredibly skilled (and you must prove that through achievements/university degrees). This employer will need to compile a I-140 form and I'm sure this is what makes the process hard.
- Invest $500.000/$1.000.000 (which I don't currently have) and start a business where you are going to hire at least 10 American employees.
- Win the Green Card Lottery. I don't take this in consideration cause I might get to 80 years old when I actually win a lottery. Hoping for luck isn't the strategy I believe...

My current options:

1. I thought of keep going on my self-taught coding journey and become a great web developer, great enough that someone in America will want to hire me, while finish my degree in Economics.

or 2. Finish my degree in Economics and get a Master in the USA (ouch, this will cost me ~ $45k).

or 3. Move to UK/Estonia/any other business-favorable EU country and start an actual business. Rack up half a million dollars in that business. I guess this option might take me half a decade if not more, since this would be my first ever business and I'm sure I'll have to fail a lot before seeing half a million dollars in my bank account.

or/and 4. Contact 50-100 American companies every day (once they start re-accepting immigrants) and hope for probability to come. The only real skill I have right now is graphic design, but from what I know there's low demand for that skill and I don't know yet whether getting an EB-3 visa would be feasible.

edit: I'll still take in strong consideration the UK. Actually, it would be awesome to move there.

 

[UK_Mike]

1. I thought of keep going on my self-taught coding journey and become a great web developer, great enough that someone in America will want to hire me, while finish my degree in Economics.

Would that work? Being a coder is something you can do anywhere, so however great you become, and whoever in the US (or anywhere else) wants to hire you, would they really want to bring you to the US, or prefer to have you work where you are?

I don't want to just be negative, I understand that you are considering employment by a US company as stepping-stone, a means to an end, I'm just not sure this specific option will help you.

 

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[abcdefgh]

I've been thinking about this for months now and I'm really determined to make this happen. I currently live in Italy and I'd do anything to move in the USA.
I've done some research and yep, it's not easy. But I honestly won't stop in front of the "entry barriers".

I'm currently in University and studying Economics/Management and I was wondering whether a degree of that sort would have been any useful to make this dream real...
I'd even drop out and work a menial job if I had the opportunity to move in the USA. But from what I've read, unless you are a specialized worker/have extraordinary abilities, you have little chance (but it's not impossible, of course).

Why do I want to move in the USA? It's always been a dream of mine. I feel an alien in my country and the crab bucket mentality is heavy here. The entrepreneurship culture is non-existent. I have some big plans for my future, but I want to make them happen in the USA for some reason. I struggle starting a business in Italy, maybe due to my biases but also because I'd find the rewards little satisfactory. Taxes are over the roof and the market is definitely not comparable to the American one.

Shortly, I have to make this happen.

I was wondering if any of you managed to move from Europe to the US, and how you got there.
Thanks everybody in advance.

From what I've read on the replies here, it seems that your best bet may be moving to Ireland (or Estonia), creating a successful business there, then selling the business for at least $500,000 (or however much that is in euros/monopoly money), then using that investment money as your entry into America.

It seems like the fastlane is your most realistic route to America.

 

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[Flint]

I might move in the UK and get a job [...]
[...]I could save enough money to either move into the UK and start another business there (with way more favorable laws for businesses)[...]

Keep this in mind (not that it's a showstopper, just another hoop to jump through):

"From 1 January 2021, free movement will end and the UK will introduce a points-based immigration system. The new system will treat EU and non-EU citizens equally and transform the way in which all migrants come to the UK to work. Anyone coming to the UK to work, excluding Irish citizens, will need to apply for permission in advance.

Under a points-based immigration system, anyone coming to the UK for work must meet a specific set of requirements for which they will score points. Visas are then awarded to those who gain enough points."

Source: The UK's points-based immigration system: an introduction for employers (accessible version)

 

[WabiSabi]

Be careful what you wish for. I know alot of people here are fed up with immigrants, though they'll never say it to you personally. They'll hire you but they look at immigrants as slave labor and generally disposable. I wouldn't move until you've got some real marketable skills, otherwise you'll be fighting at the bottom of the barrel.

As for entrepreneurial culture, the vast majority of people here are glued to their smartphones and never think of starting a business. Stuff is just hard everywhere right now with this covid crap, I'd stay put for 2 school years and revisit moving when the world is less crazy.

 

[abcdefgh]

Be careful what you wish for. I know alot of people here are fed up with immigrants, though they'll never say it to you personally. They'll hire you but they look at immigrants as slave labor and generally disposable. I wouldn't move until you've got some real marketable skills, otherwise you'll be fighting at the bottom of the barrel.

As for entrepreneurial culture, the vast majority of people here are glued to their smartphones and never think of starting a business. Stuff is just hard everywhere right now with this covid crap, I'd stay put for 2 school years and revisit moving when the world is less crazy.

Take this advice with a grain of salt.

 

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[Jon L]

That's understandable. But they're illegal immigrants


These are the left-wing areas. Comparing Seattle to Fort Worth is almost like comparing Italy to UK. Very different culture.

And for the love of Christ, get out of Seattle. America isn't in decline, but Seattle definitely is.

I'd agree with you if we didn't almost nominate Bernie Sanders. We've always had fringe elements, but the Left has taken over probably 30 percent of the country. They dominate a good portion of the Democratic party along with the vast majority of the education system (K-college), the media, Hollywood, etc.

 

[Forodstar]

My wife got offered I think L1 visa. Something like work for a US subsidiary and then moved to HQ. It was a headache for me even if we got married for me to get work permission as well in the end we decided against.

The US immigration system in my view is broken and the rhetoric on immigration is pretty depressing. I like even love America, been lucky to cross the pond a fair few times. It is a land that oozes opportunity but you can have a business anywhere and hit US end clients.

Also following the theory of go where you are treated best. You are EU you have a boat load of opportunity on your doorstep, you can with relative ease hop over the border to Switzerland and earn comparable or more than the US in finance. You also have a huge safety net to fall back on so especially in your youth you have free reign to make some decent well judged risks.

If you are a true entrepreneurial spirit, there is infact many jurisdictions that could be of interest outside of the US. In English speaking world the US has a really strong pull but realise the world is big and if you are willing to go where you are treated best you will have a great time.

 

[abcdefgh]

Indeed! Safety is really important to me too, so I would have a look at some Asian countries.

Asia:
China and Hong-Kong, if you don't mind the absence of democracy. South-Korea/Japan, if you can manage to fully blend into the culture. But the must remains Singapore. Low taxes, very high standard of living, international, safe, business oriented and clean. Should I have a family, Singapore is a place I'd like my kids to grow up in.
If you're looking for something cheaper and convenient, the Philippines is the way to go! While traditionally pro-US, they have taken a step towards China which means more trade and less democracy, but if you go there to make money (any type of company, the country is industrializing quickly and there are a sh*t loads of people) that should work. Downside is corruption. Same story for Vietnam, although rising tensions with China would make me choose the Philippines.

Middle-East
Alternatively, the Middle-East ain't bad either, especially now because of the enormous efforts and invested sums that these countries are making to get out of energy dependency (if you're looking for a reason why they are suddenly opening their doors to Israel, it is because money suddenly became more important than ideologies). On top of big real estate projects, governments (EAU, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Koweit) are currently distributing grants for people that want to start businesses (or simply do something with their lives after living off oil for 50 years), which means that there will be many people with money to spend, and many people that will want to do business. Also, these countries have traditionally a huge lack of both expertise and workforce.
Notable places would be Dubai for example, where I suspect the real estate market is about to collapse completely since all Westerners left because of Covid (and I doubt they are coming back). However, should I start an online company where everything is done over the internet, I would go to a smaller Emirate (and avoid Dubai et Abu-Dhabi) where taxes are equally low but cost of living is also much cheaper (there are 7 Emirates in total, so choose whatever you prefer). If you're looking for less mainstream, head to Qatar or Koweit. I would avoid Saudi Arabia atm because I do not believe the country to be stable yet. On the downside, note that the strict Islamic culture and the heat might be difficult to adapt to. To avoid that, you could try Israel, but the country is overcrowded and the real estate is waaaaayyyy too expensive. I think this region is about to undergo rapid and massive economic explosion because of the upcoming economic exchange between countries on one side, and the reconstruction of Syria and Beirut on the other.

Oceania
I lived one year in Australia, standard of living and pay are higher than in Europe and weather is amazing but 1/3 people will end up with skin cancer, so I dont think I'd want to live there. Also it is too far away from everything else and too big, deliveries instantly take three days and cost millions. If you are looking for a worse version of Australia, try New Zealand, the most overrated country on earth (i think people idealize far away places and NZ is so far away that everyone thinks it is the greatest country on earth while it looks like if France and Bosnia had decided to build a low quality amusement park to the image of their blended landscapes, no offense).

Africa is developing as the continent is about to create the biggest free-trade zone in the world, but I would wait for safety improvement before going there. In South-America, I would go for Uruguay or Chili, the problem of Argentina being their constant economic crises.

I couldn't help but laugh my a$$ off with what you said about New Zealand and Australia.

I've always been curious about moving to Chile though.

 

[Kak]

Yeah, I tend to agree, but won't win the argument if I say 100%.

I said what I said about the US being in decline because empires tend to last about 250 years, and they tend to follow predictable paths. We're following the same path.

I listened to an autobiography of Henry Ford a couple weeks ago, and am now listening to one on JD Rockefeller. They talk about things very differently than we do today. The words they used matched the stage of empire development that we were in back then. What we say today matches the stage we're in now.

Back then:

• Both men felt boundless enthusiasm for what they could accomplish in business
• They felt a deep sense of obligation to their fellow man
• They sought to serve the needs of their customers
• They had a strong dislike for people who wouldn't work for a living. Hard work cures all.
• Both men supported true charity cases (where the person can't work)
• They felt that well-organized, thoughtful institutions would cure society's ills.

Compare that to today. How many of us on this forum feel this way about ourselves, much less about the US? I'd say that my chief problem in business (and many of the people in this forum) is that I don't subscribe to those beliefs enough. Multiply that by 330 million people, and you have a country in decline.

I am going to give this post some time on the radio show. Absolutely DEAD FREAKING ON.

 

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