Best City/Country in Europe for Online Entrepreneur

[Fox]

So I’d like a destination where I could build a crew and also maybe get some staff.

I had some experience in the past of setting up a business in Europe - one thing I was not prepared for was the bureaucracy. I was told I would need a business permit. No problem I thought. I hired a local accountant to help me with the paperwork. I expected to get the permit in a week or two at the most.

Several months later I was still getting documents translated and notarised, getting fingerprinted, sending bank statements, hiring lawyers etc. At one point my lawyer told me that I'd need to take a 12 month class before they would issue a permit. The level of paperwork needed in some countries is insane.

Just something to be aware of...

Thanks.

I would only sub contract though. Just hire freelancers and meet them a few times a week. But appreciate the insight - that kinda stuff can drive you crazy.

 

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[Everyman]

Sure! The house in the photo is around 4k/month (new interior/over 200m2) & located in the hills between Cascais and Sintra. even though not directly in the capital, it's less than 45min from Lisbon airport. Was looking to move to a place like that later this year, currently living in Lisbon centre & it's getting a bit too busy (lots of tourists/ cars/ plus the general busyness of a capital).

Are you looking to move to Portugal?

Yeah the area is great! I visited Ericeira more than a year ago. It is really close, with the motorways, people are great, views, surfing, weather ! Haha...

We checked prices and most of the biggest cities (Lisbon, Barcelona, Madrid...) are really expensive when you compare local average salaries and rents... I don't know how people, that work there locally, just get by...?!

 

[jonahsr]

Yeah the area is great! I visited Ericeira more than a year ago. It is really close, with the motorways, people are great, views, surfing, weather ! Haha...

We checked prices and most of the biggest cities (Lisbon, Barcelona, Madrid...) are really expensive when you compare local average salaries and rents... I don't know how people, that work there locally, just get by...?!

Yeah, Cascais is where you live if you have money. Even Lisbon centre is expensive now, the only exception is when someone has had their rental contract for decades & they can't raise the rent.

Most locals don't live in the center, they live outside in Almada or somewhere else on the other side of the bridge...

 

[Longinus]

It is only my own perspective of 20s, I can talk about. For me, 20s was about understanding life and what I want in real. That is why I went into a lot of adventures in love life, in sex, in friendships and in my career. Why? I was just hungry for adventure.

Germany sucks for 20s because there is zero hunger in German people for adventure. Nobody wants to hook up with hotter chicks, nobody wants to earn more money and nobody is hungry for any worldly thing. Everyone is so much concerned about "being average" here. People really go through shit to earn 85k yearly instead of 75k. (of which half of it is taxed away) Nobody wants to stick out and take risks. I can even not find a sharp dressed dude on the streets here.

This makes the society really boring. Less chicks to hook up, less people into entrepreneurship, too many dull people and less adventures.

For what? For "stability" and "security". Because "families have to be protected". Because of "social state". Things I do not really need in my 20s. I neither have a family, nor do I want stability or security.

Because of this tendency to "be equal", social status is also not very important in their eyes. Conversations are generic, stripped away from passion and drivenness. Such things are seen to be "dangerous" or "audacious". You are not allowed or encouraged to stick out.

I would have chosen some Latin country probably for my 20s, if I could turn back.

80-90% of the world's population is mediocre. Germany as you describe it, is in no sense worse than any other country, and certainly not a Latin country which is way less individualistic than Germany.

So what are you waiting for? You want more adventure, but you still stay in a country you hate, with people you hate, with with a cushy job you probably hate too. You're just like the people you're ranting about.

 

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[Attila77]

Budapest is a great combination of international vibe, culture, nice weather in Summer and still quite cheap. That would be my choice.

Agree. I am from Budapest.

Taxation for limited liability companies (called Kft) is favorable in Hungary.

There is also a taxation called "KATA", for solo entrepreneurs. If you just start a business with KATA, and you don't reach 45K yearly, you only pay ~180 USD for tax/month and you are good.

 

[ygtrhos]

80-90% of the world's population is mediocre. Germany as you describe it, is in no sense worse than any other country, and certainly not a Latin country which is way less individualistic than Germany.

So what are you waiting for? You want more adventure, but you still stay in a country you hate, with people you hate, with with a cushy job you probably hate too. You're just like the people you're ranting about.

There are things I’m really waiting for, but I do not want to talk about this here because it’s irrelevant. If you want to know my specific situation, you can PM me.

The dude before me asked why I’d not prefer Germany in my 20s, and I answered it.

I’d rather have a forum free of people playing “mindset police”. I don’t remember how often I was reprimanded for what I say here.

 

[AlexVilch]

So this post might come as a surprise to those who know me but I am looking at moving back to Europe within the next 2-3 months. I currently have been in Mexico for nearly a year and loved the place but have been finding it hard being so far away from my family.

As such I am looking for a livable city in Europe for online hustle and seeing what people would recommend. I am Irish but I don't want to move back home - just be able to visit a few times a year and on short notice if needed.

So far my top picks are Kiev / Budapest / Tbilisi / Gdansk.

Would love to hear peoples thoughts and any recommendations.

Been to 3/4, not just been but lived there. I will vouch for Kiev. Do not listen to the "rough situation" bs. It does not affect Kiev at all. It is a big city, full of activities, cheaper than in most of Europe. A lot of freelancers and outsources live there, service is cheap, food is cheap, transportation is cheap. The Internet is great, co-workings are super comfy. Close to the rest of Europe (about 3 hour flight to almost anywhere)

If you need someone to hook you up and explain things, let me know. Would be glad to help

 

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[Dan_Fastlane]

There are things I’m really waiting for, but I do not want to talk about this here because it’s irrelevant. If you want to know my specific situation, you can PM me.

The dude before me asked why I’d not prefer Germany in my 20s, and I answered it.

I’d rather have a forum free of people playing “mindset police”. I don’t remember how often I was reprimanded for what I say here.

because you can't take any criticism....and not to mention, you rant about Germany and the middle-class(where you belong as well lol), without even realizing that you have a better starting point than 80% of the population and btw what are most companies with out a middle-class that can buy their products?!

Better having "mindset police" here than seeing people spreading bs....

 

[ygtrhos]

because you can't take any criticism....and not to mention, you rant about Germany and the middle-class(where you belong as well lol), without even realizing that you have a better starting point than 80% of the population and btw what are most companies with out a middle-class that can buy their products?!

Better having "mindset police" here than seeing people spreading bs....

Check your PM plz, it is becoming spam here.

 

[Chapas]

Lisbon, Portugal. I moved here half a year ago & love it. People are relaxed & incredibly friendly, there is somewhat of an entrepreneur scene & the taxes can be really low (with NHR program even 0% depending on your set up). Health care is some of the best in the world, direct flights to all over Europe, US & China (Australia with one stop, 20 hrs).

Lived in Bulgaria before, it was great as well but people there aren't that open there (or should I say very different to what I'm used to since the effects of communism & orthodox religion can be felt quite notably. Also, people smoke everywhere, which was a bit off-putting. On the other side, the nature outside of the cities is stunning & you can feel it slowly developing into a more "western" country (might take a few more decades though).

So from my point of view, definitely look into Portugal. It's an incredible country. Take a look at this house, for example, just 45 mins from the airport & centre. Who wouldn't want to move there?

I have been considering Portugal for quite a while now. Especially after learning about the NHR regime. Great to see someone in here taking advantage of it already. I think I might have a lot of questions for you if you don't mind

I will start with one small question. I am a little confused because NHR is non-habitual residency. I am an EU citizen and my wife is not. So we need to make a family reunification somewhere in the EU. The rules are usually the same amongst all EU countries. But if I need a non-habitual residency in Portugal to make use of the NHR, does that mean that I still have to have my residency in my own country?

I read somewhere that many people misinterpret the non-habitual residency. That actually you have to become recident and the only reason it is call NON habitual is because it only last for a 10 year period.

Hope you can elaborate a little bit on that.

Always heard amazing things about Portugal and the people of Portugal, and love the language and the weather down there, so could definitely see myself living there!

 

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[BaraQueenbee]

Hey, which Prague area you can recommend for living? Prague 6 or something? that has good air quality and its not overcrowded but still safe?

Prague 10 has nice areas, 6 indeed too, and Prague 1.

But you are always welcome to hit me up in my inbox if you'd need more brainstorming on the areas!

 

[jonahsr]

I have been considering Portugal for quite a while now. Especially after learning about the NHR regime. Great to see someone in here taking advantage of it already. I think I might have a lot of questions for you if you don't mind

I will start with one small question. I am a little confused because NHR is non-habitual residency. I am an EU citizen and my wife is not. So we need to make a family reunification somewhere in the EU. The rules are usually the same amongst all EU countries. But if I need a non-habitual residency in Portugal to make use of the NHR, does that mean that I still have to have my residency in my own country?

I read somewhere that many people misinterpret the non-habitual residency. That actually you have to become recident and the only reason it is call NON habitual is because it only last for a 10 year period.

Hope you can elaborate a little bit on that.

Always heard amazing things about Portugal and the people of Portugal, and love the language and the weather down there, so could definitely see myself living there!

Yeah, the NHR regime is excellent in some cases. I'm not sure about how to do the family reunification since me & my partner both have EU citizenship.

Regarding residence, you can only take advantage of the NHR program if you reside in Portugal. You can have (but don't need) multiple homes around the world. Apart from that, however, you should be in Portugal at least six months a year & be a tax resident. Depending on how you source your income, you might need to stick to certain legal restrictions. Here is an example:

Say you have a company in another jurisdiction. First of all, the country you incorporated in shouldn't be on the tax haven blacklist. If it is but there is a DTA between the country & Portugal, you can still use that structure. Just keep in mind that the regular tax agents might flag your tax return at first sight & make you pay a 35% "fine" which you can then get back by contesting it. Now, if all of that is good, you need to look at your companies local structure. If you have an offshore company (like many in HK for example) without a proper office & staff, you might run into problems with the Portuguese tax authorities. Also, you need to document all of your board meetings & make sure that they don't take place in Portugal. If you manage everything in Portugal & they find out, you might also get fined or even jailed because of CFC laws.

There are many other things you need to keep in mind in addition to that, but it would be too long to write here. As you can see it's quite complex & I can only advise you to get a great lawyer to look over this for you before you move here. I know one (he also wrote the NHR program years ago, so he should know best) & if you want me to give you their contact, feel free to ask.

Coming back to your question about the ten years, yes, it is called NHR program because it only lasts for ten years. After that, you either need to move away or pay the standard tax rate.

Portugal is amazing. I think regarding low taxes & quality of life it is probably the best country to live in for myself. If you want to discuss more in private, feel free to PM me (does this even work here? I'm not that familiar with the forum yet...).

All the best!

 

[Chapas]

Yeah, the NHR regime is excellent in some cases. I'm not sure about how to do the family reunification since me & my partner both have EU citizenship.

Regarding residence, you can only take advantage of the NHR program if you reside in Portugal. You can have (but don't need) multiple homes around the world. Apart from that, however, you should be in Portugal at least six months a year & be a tax resident. Depending on how you source your income, you might need to stick to certain legal restrictions. Here is an example:

Say you have a company in another jurisdiction. First of all, the country you incorporated in shouldn't be on the tax haven blacklist. If it is but there is a DTA between the country & Portugal, you can still use that structure. Just keep in mind that the regular tax agents might flag your tax return at first sight & make you pay a 35% "fine" which you can then get back by contesting it. Now, if all of that is good, you need to look at your companies local structure. If you have an offshore company (like many in HK for example) without a proper office & staff, you might run into problems with the Portuguese tax authorities. Also, you need to document all of your board meetings & make sure that they don't take place in Portugal. If you manage everything in Portugal & they find out, you might also get fined or even jailed because of CFC laws.

There are many other things you need to keep in mind in addition to that, but it would be too long to write here. As you can see it's quite complex & I can only advise you to get a great lawyer to look over this for you before you move here. I know one (he also wrote the NHR program years ago, so he should know best) & if you want me to give you their contact, feel free to ask.

Coming back to your question about the ten years, yes, it is called NHR program because it only lasts for ten years. After that, you either need to move away or pay the standard tax rate.

Portugal is amazing. I think regarding low taxes & quality of life it is probably the best country to live in for myself. If you want to discuss more in private, feel free to PM me (does this even work here? I'm not that familiar with the forum yet...).

All the best!

Thank you so much for the thorough answer buddy. Really appreciate it!

I think we will probably first make the move after 6 months. Right now we have to stay in Denmark/Sweden in order to keep the cash flow going. Therefore, I would probably not be able to afford your lawyer yet. But in 6 months I would love to get his details

There is a PM function on this forum. I will shoot you a PM this weekend

Really want to find an amazing country we can settle down in long term. Been traveling for too long. I love it, but I can feel my wife needs stability.

As much as I love Denmark, the taxes and the immigration laws here are absolutely insane, so need to find a more humane country haha.

 

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[Chapas]

And my own suggestions!

Budapest is absolutely amazing. I went there randomly for a freelance internship. Ended up staying 5 months. Then I went back to Denmark, and one month later I returned for another 4 months. Then a couple of months later I decided to go back there for 2 months more.

That city is addictive. Insanely beautiful. It is relatively big, but you can still walk to everything. Prices are cheap, even though they get more and more expensive year by year.

I love that city so much. Basically every time I travel within Europe I try to find an excuse to have a couple of days layover in Budapest. So I plan to be there once every 3 months at least haha.

Hungarian people are really cool. Especially the once who stayed behind. A lot of youth are going abroad to the UK etc in order to earn better salaries, but from what I know and the people I have met the startup community is buzzing. Remember that Prezi is from Budapest.

Going to Budapest you need to have your discipline in place. It is to easy to go out and enjoy life amongst beautiful women for 2 euros a beer. As a single person I did not have the discipline to get anything done in this city. However, that is my issue. I am sure if you can balance your personal life and work life then you will love it.

My best recommendations for Budapest. Possibly my favorite place in the world!

Will try to give you some recommendations for the rest of the places I have lived. Mostly Montenegro, Spain and Russia. Don't think Denmark is the right place for you at this moment haha.

 

[jonahsr]

Thank you so much for the thorough answer buddy. Really appreciate it!

I think we will probably first make the move after 6 months. Right now we have to stay in Denmark/Sweden in order to keep the cash flow going. Therefore, I would probably not be able to afford your lawyer yet. But in 6 months I would love to get his details

There is a PM function on this forum. I will shoot you a PM this weekend

Really want to find an amazing country we can settle down in long term. Been traveling for too long. I love it, but I can feel my wife needs stability.

As much as I love Denmark, the taxes and the immigration laws here are absolutely insane, so need to find a more humane country haha.

You're very welcome! Portugal's way of life can be very relaxing. It doesn't look that great for most locals since they don't earn that much compared to other EU countries, but if you have decent money coming in from the outside you can live like a king here. I'd suggest you visit Portugal first for at least 1-2 week to get a sense of what it's like before making any commitments. After you know you want to move, talk with the lawyer & get everything sorted. It can be a real challenge understanding everything at first, but with some help, you should be absolutely fine.

Here are some reasons why you'll love Lisbon: 31 reasons why we should all be living in Lisbon right now

Feel free to reach out to me Looking forward to your message.

 

[Chapas]

You're very welcome! Portugal's way of life can be very relaxing. It doesn't look that great for most locals since they don't earn that much compared to other EU countries, but if you have decent money coming in from the outside you can live like a king here. I'd suggest you visit Portugal first for at least 1-2 week to get a sense of what it's like before making any commitments. After you know you want to move, talk with the lawyer & get everything sorted. It can be a real challenge understanding everything at first, but with some help, you should be absolutely fine.

Here are some reasons why you'll love Lisbon: 31 reasons why we should all be living in Lisbon right now

Feel free to reach out to me Looking forward to your message.

Thank you very much Jonah! I have lived in Barcelona twice for a year combined and for almost two years in Marbella, so I have kind of adapted to the Southern lifestyle :-D

Lisbon and Portugal might be a lot of different of course, but I can imagine that the mentality is still kind of similar. It looks very old school and traditional from what I have seen in the documentaries. I like that!

 

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[Sander]

Hey @Fox - visiting Gdansk in a few days. Any recommendations?

 

[Fox]

Hey @Fox - visiting Gdansk in a few days. Any recommendations?

Yo I am there at the moment so hit me up via PM and let's hang out.

 

[VTK]

Krakow is great, if you're doing Poland I'd recommend it over Warsaw or Gdansk.

 

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[Smuggo]

Krakow is great, if you're doing Poland I'd recommend it over Warsaw or Gdansk.

Yea, especially during winter. *Heavy breathing*

 

[Olimac21]

How much money do you need to live in Poland? Lets say living in a shared apartment with a frugal lifestyle.

 

[Fox]

How much money do you need to live in Poland? Lets say living in a shared apartment with a frugal lifestyle.

No idea - not much though.

But I'd focus on making more money first and enjoy it fully.

Probably not too enjoyable to move here in the winter and also be on a super tight budget.

 

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[Longinus]

Krakow is great, if you're doing Poland I'd recommend it over Warsaw or Gdansk.

Living in Warsaw for 2 months now, loving it: great international vibe, so much concerts and parties, good place for dating as a dude, good infrastructure, relatively cheap compared with W-Europe, excellent hub to explore the rest of Eastern-Europe. Gonna stay here for a year at least.

Krakow is nice, but just flooded by tourists.

I was in Tbilisi last week and I was quite disappointed. Probably smoked 2 packs of cigs secondhand. It's a nice place to hike and for nature. But I would never choose this city to live in.

 

[AgainstAllOdds]

Yea, especially during winter. *Heavy breathing*

Krakow is horrible in the winter. Smog as bad as Beijing. City overall is depressing winter time.

 

[GrandRub]

Probably smoked 2 packs of cigs secondhand.

cause everyone is smoking or because of bad air quality?

 

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[francevalue]

So this post might come as a surprise to those who know me but I am looking at moving back to Europe within the next 2-3 months. I currently have been in Mexico for nearly a year and loved the place but have been finding it hard being so far away from my family.

As such I am looking for a livable city in Europe for online hustle and seeing what people would recommend. I am Irish but I don't want to move back home - just be able to visit a few times a year and on short notice if needed.

So far my top picks are Kiev / Budapest / Tbilisi / Gdansk.

Would love to hear peoples thoughts and any recommendations.

Apart from taxes and pollution, Paris is a really great place to live in. But the living cost is quite high.

 

[Longinus]

cause everyone is smoking or because of bad air quality?

Yes, everyone smokes and all taxis seem to smell like smoke or exhaust gasses.

Apart from taxes and pollution, Paris is a really great place to live in. But the living cost is quite high.

Lol yeah, and maybe also apart from (un)safety, criminality, mass tourism, (and therefore) unfriendly locals and shitty weather. I don't see one single reason to choose Paris. There's literally tons of better alternatives.

 

[alord]

So far Lisbon has been my favorite. Great community of expats and digital entrepreneurs. Berlin is cool as well. Tallinn too but it gets boring after a while. Krakow is a cute city and has a cost of living incredibly low for what you get, if you're on a budget I would highly recommend it

 

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[jonahsr]

So far Lisbon has been my favorite. Great community of expats and digital entrepreneurs. Berlin is cool as well. Tallinn too but it gets boring after a while. Krakow is a cute city and has a cost of living incredibly low for what you get, if you're on a budget I would highly recommend it

Definitely, Lisbon is amazing to live in (that's why I live there). Lots of expats, growing startup scene & developing fast in many other areas. Plus great weather (18C right now here in winter).

 

[Menery]

Seville in the south of spain. Lived there for a year. Would go back anytime.