Ask me anything about eCommerce (2012)

[Fisherman]

its funny that when I did a quick search about this, all I kept seeing was

"97% of e-commerce websites (shopping websites) make $0 profits in their first 3 years online. Such is the steep learning curve and skill set..."

Seems whomever wrote that is selling a book.
Though it is true in general most businesses fail...but that shouldn't deter anyone. Is there anything in business that has favorable odds for everyone?

or you can open 33 online stores and get the odds back in your favor..

 

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[LightHouse]

Magento Community is Free, while Magento Go is subscription based. We are developing a site on Magento Community right now, and it's going to cost us in the neighborhood of $40,000. Standard Magento projects (without much customization) will run in the $12k-15k range from a reputable developer. Keep in mind Magento pushes it's Enterprise Version ($14k a year) as much as it can.

For full discretion, this is the company I work for. While I think Magento is a great platform, it certainly has its own issues and development is not cheap. Using a subscription based, hosted cart is usually easiest to start a newly emerging business. However, if you need some killer feature or custom coding that a subscription based cart can't offer, you almost have to look at something like Magento.

I'm planning on launching my business on a subscription based cart, then migrating over to Magento when money permits.

I hope that helps!

That is one cart I have never really been into. The backend is so massive making development very expensive. However, with the current state of things, it might be the only newer cart that still has a following, that will be around for future development in coming years. And you can bet They know this and will be squeezing every bit of money out when the time comes.

 

[Jeremy]

its funny that when I did a quick search about this, all I kept seeing was

"97% of e-commerce websites (shopping websites) make $0 profits in their first 3 years online."

That's just what they tell the IRS :smxB:

But seriously, many businesses will show $0 profit because:

1. They paid out the profit to the owner (and employees who are relatives) in the form of salaries or untaxed benefits.

2. The business is done on the side and all "profits" (free cash flow) are reinvested into the business, taken as expenses, and the reported income is $0 or even a small loss.

3. It takes a certain level of scale to get to breakeven in terms of top line revenue, and the business owner went into business knowing and planning for that.


That 3 years is an important number, too, speaking of the IRS. If a business organized as a pass-through entity consistently shows a loss for 3 years or more, then the IRS will strongly scrutinize it to determine if it's really a business or merely a non-deductible hobby. Interesting that many of these side businesses suddenly show a profit in year 3 or 4 to protect the fat deductions taken in years 1 and 2....

 

[snowbank]

I remember reading 97 percent of eCommerce sites make 0 dollars in their first 3 years. I am assuming after 3 years they go out of business. If you guys are doing this you will need to bust your ballz to make money.. just a reality check

97% of people failing is only a reality check for people who plan on being horrible at business.

 

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[Fisherman]

97% of people failing is only a reality check for people who plan on being horrible at business.

I don't agree... you can be bad at ecomm and great at business.

 

[snowbank]

I don't agree... you can be bad at ecomm and great at business.

...no

 

[Fisherman]

...no

there is a big learning curve a broad skill set required. The market is very competitive in terms of quantity and quality... a person who can barely jailbreak their iphone will get eaten alive by the sharks. That same person is better off taking a different path in business.

 

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[Dan Da Man]

there is a big learning curve a broad skill set required. The market is very competitive in terms of quantity and quality... a person who can barely jailbreak their iphone will get eaten alive by the sharks. That same person is better off taking a different path in business.

Are you speaking out of your a$$? Do you even know what you are talking about? Seriously, you shouldn't chime in unless you actually know what your talking about.

Yes, it is competitive. Yes, there are companies doing it but very badly. And no you don't have to be able to jailbreak phones, this is idiotic.

I can't create a website. I cannot even host a website. I don't really write good copy and I sure have no idea how to crack an iphone.

But, I know a hell of a lot about SEO. I can rank for almost any term and get traffic to any site. I can also find someone to do every single thing that I cannot do and do it ten times better then I would ever do.

My first site I sold for 15k without knowing how to crack an iphone. Are the sharks letting me slide for now?

If you can't do SEO or drive traffic by other means, then you are going to have a hard time. Being technically inclined does not matter at all. I don't know where you and other people think that you have to be some skilled programmer to run an e-commerce store.

I can get an epic site created with 50 products done in two weeks. Then automate all my SEO for under a few hundred bucks for the entire site for the whole year. Too bad I can't program or jailbreak an iphone.

Honestly, you haven't done it so don't act like you have.

There is a learning curve just like anything in life but if you want to do it, then do it. I couldn't even use a computer two years ago. But now I have over 6 e commerce stores and I create at least 2 a month.

Anyone can open up a store. The primary focus will be getting traffic and learning how to do it yourself. Don't outsource it because anyone who REALLY knows how to rank is either doing it for themselves (I won't ever do SEO for others) or charge an arm or a leg.

If you want to start en e-commerce store you need to:

1. Learn SEO - Not this whitehat BS.
2. Learn to ditch and throw away sites - Some sites just won't make you money. Some products will not sell. Learn to move on and ditch sites.
3. Find others who can do things you cannot do - Find good people from Elance. Trial and error here but you must have a good team of people to do things you cannot.
4. Create sites as cheap as possible - I have my sites copied over each time. Makes it very simple and can easily copy the template then change out logos, products, etc..
5. Finding products that sell - This is the hardest part as not ever product will sell but most likely you can make a few sales even in a shitty niche. Doesn't take too many sales to cut even.

Cost to make a site - $250
Cost of SEO on the site - $50. (I found the people to create these customer programs. No manual link building bs and no Senuke crap)
Time Spent On Building Site - 1-2 Weeks
Total Time On SEO - 10 hours overall for a 6 month period.

This coming from a guy who had no computer experience, no business experience and only the ability to learn and improve. Oh and learning to move fast. Failing is not failing unless you give up. But get good at moving on when things don't work. My first site did well, the second did well, but the next 3 I did were shit lol.

But you learn and get better each time. I guess you don't jailbreak an iphone on the first try

 

[Stayer]

Cost of SEO on the site - $50.
Total Time On SEO - 10 hours overall for a 6 month period.

can you explain what your SEO includes? I assume you outrource it, wonder what type of jobs you hire SEO workers for.

 

[biophase]

I don't agree... you can be bad at ecomm and great at business.

I disagree with this also. Ecomm is a part of a business. If you are good at business you can figure out ecommerce or any business because... by definition, you are good at it.

If you are good in business, you may find that you personally suck at ecommerce, but just means that you would solve your problem by bringing in someone who is good at what you aren't.

By contrast you can be good at ecommerce but suck at business. This is the space that Dan Dan is talking about. So many sites don't understand business. For example, I see a ton of stores with:

Flashing text
Bad color combos
Banner Ads
Adsense (WTF?)
Music that automatically plays
6 page checkout that requires middle initials and company names
Annoying pop up video people

When you see sites like this that rank on the front page, you know that as a good business person, you can beat them.

 

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[Dan Da Man]

can you explain what your SEO includes? I assume you outrource it, wonder what type of jobs you hire SEO workers for.

I tried outsourcing my SEO and I wasted thousands of dollars doing it. I do it all myself which really is not that much. Everything is automated or almost automated. The only thing I outsource is the offpage content that I have created. I can get someone to create me 4,000 words of sentence, paragraph spins for 10 bucks. I use about 10 of these syntax articles for all my offpage for each site I do, which will create me about 30-50 thousands posts.. So for $100 and the cost of captchas (which is almost nothing) my SEO for the site is pretty much done. I already made the investment on the tools which are one time investments.

My advice, learn SEO. Really learn it. Not this manually link building, warrior forum link packet kind of shit. More then 95% of people doing SEO don't know what they are doing. Because the thing is, everything you hear is garbage. How do you know what someone says is true? You don't. What I am saying could be completely untrue and you can run with it and tell others the same thing. Until you start testing and building thousands of links a day across tons of different sites and niches, only then will you start to really learn what works and what doesn't. SEO is about testing and tons of it. Be willing to burn sites just for the hell of it.

 

[JasonR]

I tried outsourcing my SEO and I wasted thousands of dollars doing it. I do it all myself which really is not that much. Everything is automated or almost automated. The only thing I outsource is the offpage content that I have created. I can get someone to create me 4,000 words of sentence, paragraph spins for 10 bucks. I use about 10 of these syntax articles for all my offpage for each site I do, which will create me about 30-50 thousands posts.. So for $100 and the cost of captchas (which is almost nothing) my SEO for the site is pretty much done. I already made the investment on the tools which are one time investments.

My advice, learn SEO. Really learn it. Not this manually link building, warrior forum link packet kind of shit. More then 95% of people doing SEO don't know what they are doing. Because the thing is, everything you hear is garbage. How do you know what someone says is true? You don't. What I am saying could be completely untrue and you can run with it and tell others the same thing. Until you start testing and building thousands of links a day across tons of different sites and niches, only then will you start to really learn what works and what doesn't. SEO is about testing and tons of it. Be willing to burn sites just for the hell of it.

Do you mind posting what site you run?

 

[Fisherman]

Are you speaking out of your a$$? Do you even know what you are talking about? Seriously, you shouldn't chime in unless you actually know what your talking about.

Yes, it is competitive. Yes, there are companies doing it but very badly. And no you don't have to be able to jailbreak phones, this is idiotic.

I can't create a website. I cannot even host a website. I don't really write good copy and I sure have no idea how to crack an iphone.

But, I know a hell of a lot about SEO. I can rank for almost any term and get traffic to any site. I can also find someone to do every single thing that I cannot do and do it ten times better then I would ever do.

My first site I sold for 15k without knowing how to crack an iphone. Are the sharks letting me slide for now?

If you can't do SEO or drive traffic by other means, then you are going to have a hard time. Being technically inclined does not matter at all. I don't know where you and other people think that you have to be some skilled programmer to run an e-commerce store.

I can get an epic site created with 50 products done in two weeks. Then automate all my SEO for under a few hundred bucks for the entire site for the whole year. Too bad I can't program or jailbreak an iphone.

Honestly, you haven't done it so don't act like you have.

There is a learning curve just like anything in life but if you want to do it, then do it. I couldn't even use a computer two years ago. But now I have over 6 e commerce stores and I create at least 2 a month.

Anyone can open up a store. The primary focus will be getting traffic and learning how to do it yourself. Don't outsource it because anyone who REALLY knows how to rank is either doing it for themselves (I won't ever do SEO for others) or charge an arm or a leg.

If you want to start en e-commerce store you need to:

1. Learn SEO - Not this whitehat BS.
2. Learn to ditch and throw away sites - Some sites just won't make you money. Some products will not sell. Learn to move on and ditch sites.
3. Find others who can do things you cannot do - Find good people from Elance. Trial and error here but you must have a good team of people to do things you cannot.
4. Create sites as cheap as possible - I have my sites copied over each time. Makes it very simple and can easily copy the template then change out logos, products, etc..
5. Finding products that sell - This is the hardest part as not ever product will sell but most likely you can make a few sales even in a shitty niche. Doesn't take too many sales to cut even.

Cost to make a site - $250
Cost of SEO on the site - $50. (I found the people to create these customer programs. No manual link building bs and no Senuke crap)
Time Spent On Building Site - 1-2 Weeks
Total Time On SEO - 10 hours overall for a 6 month period.

This coming from a guy who had no computer experience, no business experience and only the ability to learn and improve. Oh and learning to move fast. Failing is not failing unless you give up. But get good at moving on when things don't work. My first site did well, the second did well, but the next 3 I did were shit lol.

But you learn and get better each time. I guess you don't jailbreak an iphone on the first try

Great post, I give you props for that but you missed my point completely. Warren Buffet is gonna make alot more money in the stock market than selling stockings online. Everybody has a different path... people have to play to their strengths. I may not be a ecomm millionaire but that is not a reason for me to jump blindly into that arena.

You say I am talking out of my a$$ but the proceed to agree with everything I said... well expect the main point of my post which you missed.

What about you... where are you sites? As far as I am concerned you sound like a typical blackhat seo marketer chasing money. Turning an 10 dollar article into 30-50 thousand posts? What value do you add? Google has been eating people like that alive... it does not seem like a long term business.. I could be wrong and if so I apologize..

You have a see what sticks approach... throw a bunch of stuff out there... spend as little money as possible and see what responds. How how fast are you giving up and how many good ideas are you leaving behind? What about focus and what about planning, research, and forecasting? Anybody who owns a business knows how important that is.

For every 100 people bullshitting about making money online maybe 1 person actually does. I don't want to hijack this thread out of respect for biophase and what he is doing here but this business is not for everybody... be honest with yourself and find your own path instead of following others blindly.

 

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[Fisherman]

I disagree with this also. Ecomm is a part of a business. If you are good at business you can figure out ecommerce or any business because... by definition, you are good at it.

If you are good in business, you may find that you personally suck at ecommerce, but just means that you would solve your problem by bringing in someone who is good at what you aren't.

By contrast you can be good at ecommerce but suck at business. This is the space that Dan Dan is talking about. So many sites don't understand business. For example, I see a ton of stores with:

Flashing text
Bad color combos
Banner Ads
Adsense (WTF?)
Music that automatically plays
6 page checkout that requires middle initials and company names
Annoying pop up video people

When you see sites like this that rank on the front page, you know that as a good business person, you can beat them.

Man those sound like my sites... but you forgot the 20 second load times...

Ok... I see you point.

I would also point out... just because you have made millions in real estate does not mean you have the ability learn, implement and succeed at any and every business.

 

[Deege]

Kenric,

Do you ever struggle with competition due to IMAP policies? Or do you just try to outrank(SEO) the competitors even though your prices remain around the same margin? Or perhaps do you offer other incentives to better yourself over the comp? It's been a good while since i've posted, but the e-commerce caught my eye this time.

Thanks,
DJ

 

[Dan Da Man]

Great post, I give you props for that but you missed my point completely. Warren Buffet is gonna make alot more money in the stock market than selling stockings online. Everybody has a different path... people have to play to their strengths. I may not be a ecomm millionaire but that is not a reason for me to jump blindly into that arena.

You say I am talking out of my a$$ but the proceed to agree with everything I said... well expect the main point of my post which you missed.

What about you... where are you sites? As far as I am concerned you sound like a typical blackhat seo marketer chasing money. Turning an 10 dollar article into 30-50 thousand posts? What value do you add? Google has been eating people like that alive... it does not seem like a long term business.. I could be wrong and if so I apologize..

You have a see what sticks approach... throw a bunch of stuff out there... spend as little money as possible and see what responds. How how fast are you giving up and how many good ideas are you leaving behind? What about focus and what about planning, research, and forecasting? Anybody who owns a business knows how important that is.

For every 100 people bullshitting about making money online maybe 1 person actually does. I don't want to hijack this thread out of respect for biophase and what he is doing here but this business is not for everybody... be honest with yourself and find your own path instead of following others blindly.

I am a blackhat internet marketer, which is really pointless because blackhat is the only hat that anyone doing SEO should be. If you fully understand that google will eat your site whitehat or not, then you may understand that blackhat is the only option. Then again, I don't expect you to undestand because you don't understand SEO.

And for Value, I am providing value. I am sure that Biophase is providing value in niches he choses. I'm not going to go in a niche sellin iphones because I probably can't provide value there. I find niches where mom and pop stores are selling products, but have no idea how to run an online store. The user experience is horrible. I come in and make a better experience.

I see your point but really you don't have much to add since you don't know much about SEO and don't know much about e-commerce. Let me guess, you are one of those mom and pop stores?

It sucks that I can go into a niche and beat out these stores that have been around for 10 years but welcome to competition. If google destroys my sites one day, then oh well. Its that thinking which keeps people from doing SEO hence keeping the competition easier for me.

P.S. Sorry if I sound rude again but its the same thing I hear from people who DON'T UNDERSTAND. I don't go to a lawyer and give him advice on law because I simply don't understand it. Talking about SEO like "creating tons of posts" and referring that to being shady blackhat, is simply something you just do not understand. Any competitive niche making money and providing value, is "creating tons of blackhat posts".

Let me put it this way. Google has the best marketing strategy for SEO. They use scare tactics (which has worked on you) to get people to thinking they will get banned if they do something against their guidlines. They preach "quality content" over and over again, when their is proof that sites are ranking without quality content and which do not give the user a better user experience. Google does not care about my site nor do they care about yours. They don't want people to use blackhat because IT WORKS! What does this means?

If blackhat works then people can use it for organic rankings. What does this mean? Means people will not be paying for ads. Hmm... Google doesn't like that do they? So, they have a team which market the white hat BS tactics which spread across the web. They are misinforming you to think this is the way to go, only knowing that you will never get their. It is like hanging a hotdog in front of a dog where he keeps trying to get it but never does. Except in the end, your hucking over cash for paid ads.

Of course it is risky but all SEO is risky. And for now it is working. Doesn't mean I will do this forever but if I can rank sites, provide value, and "chase money", give me one good reason why I shouldn't?

When google starts caring about me and my family, is when I will start caring about them and their business. I am not hurting anyone by posting "thousands of spun posts".

Sorry for hijacking I get revved up because people always try and offer advice or give me their google is going to eat your site stuff. I see an opportunity and anyone who is in my shoes does as well.

 

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[mrbusines]

more about seo, im in the market for a solid seo team or person, i have plans on learning it myself, i have been doing alot of studying on it, but in the mean time id like to know if any of you guys had a someone that you've tried and are reliable that you can refer?
have any of you guys successfully ranked any high competition keywords?

 

[andviv]

more about seo, im in the market for a solid seo team or person, i have plans on learning it myself, i have been doing alot of studying on it, but in the mean time id like to know if any of you guys had a someone that you've tried and are reliable that you can refer?

You need to contact lighthouse.

 

[DiemTrader]

biophase, what's the best way to learn SEO?

Just doing some internet searches there is so much information out there to know what is any good.

Any advise on where to start?

 

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[BeingChewsie]

Any advise on where to start?

I am by no means an expert and have just started to learn SEO, but I have found this very helpful: SEO: The Free Beginner?s Guide From SEOmoz

I am about as green on SEO as one can be and it feels very "hand-holdy" and easy to understand to me.

Hope it is helpful for you.

Sue

 

[Dan Da Man]

biophase, what's the best way to learn SEO?

Just doing some internet searches there is so much information out there to know what is any good.

Any advise on where to start?

Ill chime in since I have experience.. Start doing. That is the best way. You can't read what works because there is all here say garbage out there. You need to test yourself. Create a few sites for testing purposes. Start throwing mud at the wall and see if it sticks. Also, start reading www.BlackHatWorld.com if you are really serious about it. I know people give me crap for saying this, but those who do say that, no nothing about SEO.

Dan

 

[biophase]

Hey Bio, I didn't want to do it as maybe you didn't want it here,

but I would suggest you post up a link here to your thread that you gave all the great info about what you do specifically.

It STILL is a wonder to me what you were willing to put out there. That thread alone is worth the price of admission

Hi Patrick, I don't know which thread you are referring to. You can link to it here!

 

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[biophase]

Great! Thank you in advance!

I have a question regarding subscription e-commerce. Have you thought about selling in that model? Nowadays it seems like subscription shops are poping up everywhere. The model ensures steady income but I am wondering how is the churn?

I would be grateful for your opinion!

People have asked me why I don't write an ebook, or do an ecommerce subscription based learning site or even brand a cart. The answer really is because I'm lazy. In order for me to be happy with an ebook or subscription site, I would have to constantly keep it fresh, up to date and knowledgable. There are also alot of options and features that people will want all the time even if I don't know anything about them. This would involve me experimenting with things like FB likes, twitter, Pinterest, etc... in order to give my customers real world information.

In my opinion, these subscription based carts are great and really make it easy for anyone to open up a store. There are a great value.

 

[biophase]

I remember reading 97 percent of eCommerce sites make 0 dollars in their first 3 years. I am assuming after 3 years they go out of business. If you guys are doing this you will need to bust your ballz to make money.. just a reality check

I don't know if it would be 97%. But considering that opening a store is an event and it literally takes 15 minutes to OPEN a store, I can see where 97% would not make money. However, I don't consider that meaning that 97% fail. It means that most people don't put any effort into them.

For example, I probably have had 15 ecommerce stores total. The ones that I don't pay attention to never make any sales.

I paid $3k for one a few months ago and have not done a thing with it. Guess what! ZERO sales to date. It's not the store's fault, or the niche's fault or the ecom industry. It's 100% mine fault.

Sadly, most people who start ecommerces stores don't do anything with them once they are up and running. They just sit back and wait.

 

[biophase]

or you can open 33 online stores and get the odds back in your favor..

If you open 33 online stores and don't do a thing afterwards I can guarantee that you will have a 100% failure rate.

If you open 33 online stores and SEO and work on them all, I would be that you would make six figures easily within a year.

 

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[biophase]

Man those sound like my sites... but you forgot the 20 second load times...

Ok... I see you point.

I would also point out... just because you have made millions in real estate does not mean you have the ability learn, implement and succeed at any and every business.

I think we are saying the same things. Business knowledge in general will help you in all fields. But specific REI knowledge won't help you in Ecommerce.

Business > REI
Business > Ecommerce

 

[biophase]

Kenric,

Do you ever struggle with competition due to IMAP policies? Or do you just try to outrank(SEO) the competitors even though your prices remain around the same margin? Or perhaps do you offer other incentives to better yourself over the comp? It's been a good while since i've posted, but the e-commerce caught my eye this time.

Thanks,
DJ

I respect all MAP prices. My prices are generally never at MAP, they are usually way higher than MAP. I don't compete on price.

Sure you can open a store and put everything at MAP, then you are the same as the other 30 stores that have everything at MAP with a different URL and template.

 

[biophase]

biophase, what's the best way to learn SEO?

Just doing some internet searches there is so much information out there to know what is any good.

Any advise on where to start?

I answered this in this thread already. The BEST way in my opinion is:

Buy a domain.
Put wordpress site on it.
Add content for something.
Try to rank for that something using whatever you've been reading.
Track your rankings.
Learn.

 

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[biophase]

Ill chime in since I have experience.. Start doing. That is the best way. You can't read what works because there is all here say garbage out there. You need to test yourself. Create a few sites for testing purposes. Start throwing mud at the wall and see if it sticks. Also, start reading www.BlackHatWorld.com if you are really serious about it. I know people give me crap for saying this, but those who do say that, no nothing about SEO.

Dan

I went to a few Advanced SEO classes. They will all teach blackhat and you will never hear about it online or anywhere else because real blackhatters will not give away their good secrets. You have to pay for that knowledge.

Here is their philosophy...

If you blackhat your way to #1 and it lasts for 6 months before you get banned and you make $100k, that's better than whitehatting up to #7 and making $25k in the same time period. You just blackhat another site back to #1 in the next 6 months and make another $100k, vs. your whitehat site moving to #5 and making anothet $50k.

 

[Dan Da Man]

I went to a few Advanced SEO classes. They will all teach blackhat and you will never hear about it online or anywhere else because real blackhatters will not give away their good secrets. You have to pay for that knowledge.

Here is their philosophy...

If you blackhat your way to #1 and it lasts for 6 months before you get banned and you make $100k, that's better than whitehatting up to #7 and making $25k in the same time period. You just blackhat another site back to #1 in the next 6 months and make another $100k, vs. your whitehat site moving to #5 and making anothet $50k.

Well, I don't know what kind of blackhat they were talking about. I am not talking about cloaking sites and refferal spam kind of stuff. And I disagree. I know many people who did exactly what google said and their sites are gone. I have sites that have lasted over 6 months to a year with spammy backlinks.

There are certain signs that google looks for. YOu have to be smart. I have friends in the insurance, attorney niches bringing in millions a year. Think they can compete doing manually white hat stuff? If you can rank and not do blackhat, sure go ahead. But for the most part, any site that is actually doing SEO is doing blackhat.

HEre is the thing. Everything that I do blackhat, is what you and other people are doing white hat. I just use an automated program which will create 10,000 times the efficiency. You wouldn't even be able to tell the difference. Google won't either. If you take projective measures to understand what signs google is looking for, you can be in the game a long time doing blackhat.

I think you said that your sites got hit in the last update? Were they all white hat? If so, then what does it matter?