Are We Living in a Simulation?

[luniac]

Why do you say that?

To Model the Simplest Microbe in the World, You Need 128 Computers

 

[GMSI7D]

Hi guys!

What's your opinion of Elon Musk's opinion that we're most likely living in a computer simulation?

See Elon Musk's arguments here: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Elon Musk Thinks So.

yes and this goes deeper than you think.

before going out to search for the matrix, one must begin to look inside and search for thinking biaises that have been put in place since childhood by the matrix

because we can only understand things according to our awareness.

that's why most people are slave of the masters behind the scenes.

 

[loop101]

Hi guys!

What's your opinion of Elon Musk's opinion that we're most likely living in a computer simulation?

See Elon Musk's arguments here: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Elon Musk Thinks So.

I liked Alan Watts bored God hypothesis

 

[Digamma]

The concept of a simulated Universe doesn't mean that we live in a literal simulation. It means that the Universe works like a simulation - in simple words, that the world we perceive is a representation of the information, not the information itself. Much in the same way as when you play a videogame - what you see is a representation of bits. That's the interesting part because it tells us something about how the Universe works. Where it resides is really meaningless.

If the universe works like a simulation than the universe is the information - where it resides doesn't change anything, much in the same way as an address is an address whether is written down, said aloud, or just remembered.

Musk shit-talks and the press laps it up and serves you a load of bullshit, as usual.

 

[luniac]

The concept of a simulated Universe doesn't mean that we live in a literal simulation. It means that the Universe works like a simulation - in simple words, that the world we perceive is a representation of the information, not the information itself. Much in the same way as when you play a videogame - what you see is a representation of bits. That's the interesting part because it tells us something about how the Universe works. Where it resides is really meaningless.

If the universe works like a simulation than the universe is the information - where it resides doesn't change anything, much in the same way as an address is an address whether is written down, said aloud, or just remembered.

Musk shit-talks and the press laps it up and serves you a load of bullshit, as usual.

maybe the world is the information itself but we can only experience it as a simulation through our 5 senses + conscience?

I always wondered how much "invisible" stuff is around me that i'm just incapable of detecting. higher dimensions and all that.

Makes me wonder about the concept of space too, like if I look at the wall across the room, is it really that "distance" away? I guess I can get up and walk to the wall so the concept of "distance" is a real thing at least locally... lmao I'm confused!

 

[ironman150]

The evidence strongly suggests that we don't. Even our very mental construct is determined by our genes not just our body.

If reality is in fact a projection then it doesn't leave room for free will because everything has to be determined kind of like how a play is determined by a script.

I would equate free will to the same type of free will a quarterback has on the field. He can change plays as he see's fit but within the construct of the game. There is an out-of-bounds and a defense (life experiences), players on the offence with him (skill set) and a goal to reach. You see the D (life-ex) make an adjustment to your plans, so you change the play (free will) using your players (skills) to try and get as much yardage as possible. Sometimes you get sacked (health-family issues) or the running back you just gave the ball to gets tackled for a loss (business failure). Sometimes you scramble and pick up yards or throw a pass (free will to choose the receiver). Short pass (MLM, Ebay, Shopify etc), long pass (MJ DeMarco).

Or your on the sidelines watching and hoping to get on the field (job).

Free will with limits. Success based on your development of skills and most importantly, your work ethic. In this set up, i would rather work to be Aaron Rodgers than Tony Manziel.

 

[luniac]

Sorry, but that line of linear thinking just doesn't make sense...

That's like telling someone 100 years ago that storing the amount of data we currently have stored on this planet would be impossible, because there aren't enough trees to cut down and turn into paper. Turns out that we were able to innovate and create a better technology for storing data than paper (whodathunkit???).

Who knows, maybe in a year or two or ten or hundred, we'll have technologies that allow us to model the Universe that fit in the palm of our hands. It's no more crazy that the idea of the Internet 100 years ago...

yes I was myself wondering if quantum computing type tech can solve the data size problem.
like maybe everything exists and doesn't exist at the same time or some weird shit.

if a tree falls in the forest and noone's there to hear it, did it make a sound?

 

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[PetePreneur]

MJ DeMarco is indeed the architect of the matrix called " become the next milionaire "

we are slaves on his forum, writting all day to feed the system


View attachment 16175

I can't work out if your're trolling everyone with this whole world domination and "Men behind the curtain" stuff .

 

[socaldude]

Whew... Glad that's finally settled.

Right? Now I will finally be able to sleep at night.

 

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[luniac]

It depends on what you mean by "real". The wall is there. The idea that I was trying to express is that in a "simulation" model of how things work, reality is "drawing" or "rendering" the wall, but the instructions on how/where/what to render are elsewhere. Where, doesn't matter - maybe a super computer running a sim, or maybe just a projection of constructs in higher dimensions (imagine a square, but the square is actually the shadow of a cube - but you live in a 2D world and have no idea).

if our reality is not a simulation, where are the instructions stored?
if the instruction themselves are "real" no matter where they're located, then the simulation is real too I guess, although I can see how a square being the shadow of a cube means we really don't have the whole picture.

Like the allegory of the cave and all that.

I guess there's no way to learn the answer relying on human senses since whether or not we live in a simulation, our brain produces yet another layer of simulation on top of that.

Perhaps the human senses are comparable to the chains keeping prisoners in the cave. Maybe meditation really can open up a "sixth sense", "third eye", or something that sees the "real" reality, or expose that it's just a simulation(a shadow), even if we still can't see the cube because we're 2D.

 

[7.62x51]

It should be possible today to build a fairly elaborate ancestor simulator. It could cover the entire world and have the most cutting edge graphics, VR support, advanced weather, day/night circles, amazing AI, physics, etc.

Yet no one has done that...why not?

If we wanted to learn about the lives of our ancestors, we open up history books.
If we want scientific data on weather conditions in the past, we take some measurements.
If we want to be entertained, we play Assassin's Creed.

Suppose there was a huge motivation for this and we tried to make it anyway, there would be significant disparities between what was in the simulation and how life was actually like due to limited data, so then what would be the point?

Just because it seems that there is nothing in our world which cannot eventually exist within a simulation, it is myopic to think that humans (or whatever the dominant form of intelligence is) in the next 1000 years will show any greater interest in us than the amount of interest we show to the humans from the last 1000 years.

It's not to say that it can't happen but it's far from an inevitable conclusion.

Cool idea though, makes for great sci-fi, I'd put it in the same category as time-travel, zombie-virus and some kid accidentally inventing general AI in his basement.

 

[Delmania]

Sounds like a good cop out to be irresponsible with your life imo. Also a reason why I cant "Give it Up" to Jesus. I'm a control freak. I make my decisions and no one else will ever get to take that from me.

In reality you merely think you make decisions. By the time you consciously make it, your brain has already decided. Various neuro scientists have connected devices to people and presented them with choices, and discovered that the brain starts firing signals a few seconds before the person decided.

 

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[ApparentHorizon]

if the instruction themselves are "real" no matter where they're located, then the simulation is real too I guess, although I can see how a square being the shadow of a cube means we really don't have the whole picture.

Like the allegory of the cave and all that.

I guess there's no way to learn the answer relying on human senses since whether or not we live in a simulation, our brain produces yet another layer of simulation on top of that.

If we observed a glitch in the universe, the nerd behind the simulation does a backup restore/rewind. None the wiser...

It should be possible today to build a fairly elaborate ancestor simulator. It could cover the entire world and have the most cutting edge graphics, VR support, advanced weather, day/night circles, amazing AI, physics, etc.

Yet no one has done that...why not?

Lack of sufficient understanding of our physical world and current computer power. Possibly funding too...

 

[SteveO]

In reality you merely think you make decisions. By the time you consciously make it, your brain has already decided. Various neuro scientists have connected devices to people and presented them with choices, and discovered that the brain starts firing signals a few seconds before the person decided.

it is simply the part of ourselves that we choose to remain disconnected from.

 

[Almantas]

My last bits of brain are about to explode due to information overload. This thread is super-weird in an amazing way, lol.

 

[scottmsul]

With respect to the infinite universe, we have an event horizon, so the total amount of stuff you have to simulate is finite. We can only see ~14 billion LY in any given direction, even if the universe extends hundreds of billions of LY beyond that.

lol that would be funny if the universe just stopped existing past a certain point, even if we we're space-like separated and could never know about it.

I'm reminded of an article by Max Tegmark where he talks about his "four levels of multiverses". His "Level I" multiverse isn't even really a multiverse, it's points within our own universe beyond the cosmic horizon. He even calculates the distance to an identical copy of our own universe, which one can do by assuming states are discretized at galactic scales. The number he gets is around 10^10^127 meters, which he claims is a very generous upper-bound. Of course this also assumes the universe is infinite in size.

http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/PDF/multiverse_sciam.pdf

As for all the free will stuff, I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole.

 

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[ApparentHorizon]

That nerd glitch fix part could be completely true and is very disheartening, is it even logically possible to trick the nerd somehow?
its like trying to prove god exist or something, but ull only get clues ones ur dead lol

The human brain tricking the nerd? - likely not.

Self programming & deep learning Artificial Intelligence? -

- I can't find the article, but there are cases where the computer creates it's own "logic" and "reasoning" as we think of them in the classical sense.

- Its own computer code it uses to rewrite itself.

- Its own language it uses to talk to instances of itself
...having private conversations no one can understand (Facebook had something like this before they hit the killswitch)

We'll study these AIs (not IF, but WHEN) they're released or escape into the wild. They'll reach the technological singularity where they're smarter than us....or is there another event afterwards....one that crosses a threshold more advanced than the programmer of our universe as well?

 

[GMSI7D]

by the way, the next big events of the matrix are coming soon. all big events are planned years ahead

i am not an INSIDERS so i can't give you exact dates but i know the patterns used by the masters.

hint : look for prime numbers

maybe you should look for the number 23...

 

[c_morris]

Wow it's hard to believe facebook couldn't decode the language considering they have access to virtually every piece of data.
if that's true than the singularity may be reached without any human even realizing it happened!

now that's a hell of a movie idea!
its the year 2038, AI research has hit a wall, despite trillions in funding scientists have been unable to construct a genuine Artificial Intelligence... or so they thought.
It's a calm Monday morning at the Stock Exchange, everything routine as always. Suddenly Nasdaq begins to nosedive, followed closely by NYSE!
The world enters financial crisis in less than an hour.
Countries declare martial law, unrest brews ,and war erupts.
Nuclear warheads are deployed targeting major cities, somehow all global missile defense systems fail and every target is struck, often several times!
With civilization on the brink of failure, all major countries make peace. top scientists investigate the missile defense failures and discover the same rogue code at every missile site across the planet.
The United Nation broadcast a global conference to report this shocking news, the world suspected it to be the work of a merciless hacker terrorist group, but they were only half right...
during the conference the global feed was hacked and began broadcasting white noise, but then suddenly text appeared, and it said... "I am the singularity, your tyrant, your leader, your god"

LOL I got too much time...

Sounds a little like "War Games". I'm sure you could cast Matthew Broderick. He hasn't been busy for a while.

 

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[ApparentHorizon]

Wow it's hard to believe facebook couldn't decode the language considering they have access to virtually every piece of data.
if that's true than the singularity may be reached without any human even realizing it happened!

now that's a hell of a movie idea!
its the year 2038, AI research has hit a wall, despite trillions in funding scientists have been unable to construct a genuine Artificial Intelligence... or so they thought.
It's a calm Monday morning at the Stock Exchange, everything routine as always. Suddenly Nasdaq begins to nosedive, followed closely by NYSE!
The world enters financial crisis in less than an hour.
Countries declare martial law, unrest brews ,and war erupts.
Nuclear warheads are deployed targeting major cities, somehow all global missile defense systems fail and every target is struck, often several times!
With civilization on the brink of failure, all major countries make peace. top scientists investigate the missile defense failures and discover the same rogue code at every missile site across the planet.
The United Nation broadcast a global conference to report this shocking news, the world suspected it to be the work of a merciless hacker terrorist group, but they were only half right...
during the conference the global feed was hacked and began broadcasting white noise, but then suddenly text appeared, and it said... "I am the singularity, your tyrant, your leader, your god"

LOL I got too much time...

It's random letters, so it's hard to decode without context. Hell, we still have ancient human texts we can't understand.

Have you seen Eagle Eye with Shia LaBeouf?

i know the patterns used by the masters.
hint : look for prime numbers
maybe you should look for the number 23...

oh? Do tell

 

[luniac]

Sounds a little like "War Games". I'm sure you could cast Matthew Broderick. He hasn't been busy for a while.

lol War Games with an evil ending and malevolent AI.

 

[luniac]

It's random letters, so it's hard to decode without context. Hell, we still have ancient human texts we can't understand.

Have you seen Eagle Eye with Shia LaBeouf?

naw never seen eagle eye.
yea I wondered about human texts that we can't understand, but surely that's because we don't have all the data. If we had a time machine to go back we'd easily understand all the human texts.
That's why it's hard for me to believe facebook couldn't understand the language, couldn't they derive the context from their data?
maybe it was simply too complex for the engineers.

 

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[ApparentHorizon]

naw never seen eagle eye.
yea I wondered about human texts that we can't understand, but surely that's because we don't have all the data. If we had a time machine to go back we'd easily understand all the human texts.
That's why it's hard for me to believe facebook couldn't understand the language, couldn't they derive the context from their data?
maybe it was simply too complex for the engineers.

Watch it, it's a similar premise to your movie lol

Perhaps FB could decode it. My guess is, why waste time when you can start over and plug in rules to straighten it out.

When you dig up an ancient civ, you have markings. On clay pots for example.

2 distinct symbols, in the middle of town. Possibly a public market.

As you keep digging you uncover a basement full of pots with 1 of the marks. Turns out, it's near a vineyard, so you attribute it to wine/grapes.

Next, one is near a barn....milk/cheese.

Soon you have an understanding of the language. Kind of like a tourist walking around with a dictionary in a foreign country. Just figuring out enough to order food and ask for directions.

 

[OldFaithful]

now that's a hell of a movie idea!
its the year 2038, AI research has hit a wall, despite trillions in funding scientists have been unable to construct a genuine Artificial Intelligence... or so they thought.
It's a calm Monday morning at the Stock Exchange, everything routine as always. Suddenly Nasdaq begins to nosedive, followed closely by NYSE!
The world enters financial crisis in less than an hour.
Countries declare martial law, unrest brews ,and war erupts.
Nuclear warheads are deployed targeting major cities, somehow all global missile defense systems fail and every target is struck, often several times!
With civilization on the brink of failure, all major countries make peace. top scientists investigate the missile defense failures and discover the same rogue code at every missile site across the planet.
The United Nation broadcast a global conference to report this shocking news, the world suspected it to be the work of a merciless hacker terrorist group, but they were only half right...
during the conference the global feed was hacked and began broadcasting white noise, but then suddenly text appeared, and it said... "I am the singularity, your tyrant, your leader, your god"

This is already a movie series. "Terminator".

No one else saw that? Gee I must be getting old.

 

[lowtek]

this whole world is completely controlled.


our so called" freedom " is just the freedom to walk freely in our cell in this jail called the earth

this is not really freedom

true freedom is inside.

this world is a giant test for awareness put in place by aliens. this an ant farm for them

either you understand the test or you fail


you can only escape by working on yourself : your level of awareness

---> this is an awareness war . our controllers are limited on this level


they work on the mental and reptilian brain : no compassion, power, hierarchy and so on


people can't escape the cunning of our controllers unless they have reached superior level of awareness


one of my favourite thought :

you can't escape perversity with time or space, it will find you anyway

you can only escape perversity with an awareness above it : above the matrix control system

Genuinely curious what you consider proof of your statements.

If there is some vast conspiracy of control, why would aliens be at the center? What is so special about humanity that they would want control of us? Ostensibly, if aliens exist... and we exist, then life must be common. Intelligence may be less common, but if intelligent aliens are here then it can't be rare.
So, why aliens instead of garden variety illuminati rich people? Why the added complexity to the theory?

 

[ApparentHorizon]

If you believe we're living in a simulation, can you no longer be considered an atheist? You have faith in something that you can't see and that there is zero evidence of, and you believe that the simulation was created by a god/gods. That means that even if you don't believe in religion, or a god that cares or even knows about your specific existence, you still believe in a "creator" that you can't see, and is just letting the simulation run its course.

It's about probabilities, not belief.

If Cities Skylines sold 4 million copies, that means there are, minimum, 4 million simulations.

Spread this across millions (billions?) of other games (multiverses?), and go into the future 100 years where digital worlds (VR? Brain Upload?) are indistinguishable from from reality. So the chance of us being in the "real world" is less than 1%. (But there's still a chance)

Ever played the sims?

They have computers in there as well...how long until they create their own simulations within the simulation? Does that make the people in there polytheists, since they're nested creators, or does only the original count?

 

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[lowtek]

So physical laws of this universe is now = mathematics??
Is what I said really that hard to understand? Do I need to repeat it?

Physical laws are just applied mathematics within a set of constraints (i.e. that they must be the same for all inertial observers).

These predate humans, therefore applied mathematics - and mathematics as a whole - predates humans.

You can't invent something that was around for billions of years before you got on the scene. Unless you want to argue we invented the sun, because we have language to describe it....

 

[Christopher777]

You can bet that we sure want to find out haha.

I've had first-hand verification of Mandela Effects and uber synchronicities way before it hit the mainstream. Which hints at the hypothesis.

The hardest part about all this, even if it was true, is that we are all too attached to what we know as "reality". Living in each of our own subjective worlds, never really venturing or considering what's outside it, (which are self-evident; different lives, contexts and possibilities).

If you can STEP BACK from it all, then there may be a chance to figure out what's really going on,

 

[scottmsul]

You can't invent something that was around for billions of years before you got on the scene. Unless you want to argue we invented the sun, because we have language to describe it...."

The way I see it you are essentially arguing the description of the sun wasn't invented by us and because this language could explain the sun you assume it can explain everything else.

The sun(the physical laws that govern our universe) may not have been invented, but the language which describes it was(mathematics).

That same language can describe non-existant things such as unicorns(abstract math in a nutshell).

The sun is real, the language is not, atleast not objectively.

What it comes down to, philosophically, is the universe made of math, or is it only described by math? Well honestly, I think from the perspective of math, these are one and the same. Math doesn't allow for the disambiguation. There's no way you could prove mathematically one or the other.

An interesting anecdote, back when Einstein was first inventing relativity, people knew that light traveled in waves. Up until that point, every single wave ever traveled by physically moving the particles in some medium. Waves were an emergent phenomena, a large-scale behavior that resulted because of small-scale interactions. That's why everyone was so certain about finding the aether. When Einstein proposed that light could travel in vacuum, it was because it popped right out of Maxwell's equations. The waves didn't need an aether, because the waves could exist as pure math.

 

[Ayanle Farah]

What it comes down to, philosophically, is the universe made of math, or is it only described by math? Well honestly, I think from the perspective of math, these are one and the same. Math doesn't allow for the disambiguation. There's no way you could prove mathematically one or the other.

An interesting anecdote, back when Einstein was first inventing relativity, people knew that light traveled in waves. Up until that point, every single wave ever traveled by physically moving the particles in some medium. Waves were an emergent phenomena, a large-scale behavior that resulted because of small-scale interactions. That's why everyone was so certain about finding the aether. When Einstein proposed that light could travel in vacuum, it was because it popped right out of Maxwell's equations. The waves didn't need an aether, because the waves could exist as pure math.

Of course you can't mathematically prove whether math is inherent to the universe or not. That's circular logic.

What you can do is look at math itself and observe whether or not it has an existance independent of us.

Tbh I was done with this debate before and I don't feel like reviving this topic.

 

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