Are We Living in a Simulation?

[Almantas]

Hi guys!

What's your opinion of Elon Musk's opinion that we're most likely living in a computer simulation?

See Elon Musk's arguments here: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Elon Musk Thinks So.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Hi guys!

What's your opinion of Elon Musk's opinion that we're most likely living in a computer simulation?

See Elon Musk's arguments here: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Elon Musk Thinks So.

Possible. When one looks at how mathematical rules govern the world around us, one might conclude so. The concept of fractals blow my mind.

 

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[jon.a]

My favorite is that the Earth is Hell for an advanced civilization.

 

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[MidwestLandlord]

Intuition is ourselves telling us something. We sometimes don't hear it because we are not well connected to our subjective selves. We also tend to not take action on intuitions because.... "that is just crazy"...

Visions are also communications from our subjective selves. Again, only if we are paying attention.

We know a lot more that we realize. All the answers are there if we can figure out a way to listen.

I have visions and seek them out to help make decisions and direction.

I always thought intuition was more instinct than anything else.

An easy example would be being around someone that our gut says is up to no good. Is that our subconscious picking up on body language cues they are giving off that our conscious mind is not aware of? Is that just the caveman kicking in from the time when watching body language cues could mean the difference between life or death? (not so different now honestly)

But, instincts wouldn't explain intuition related to things like personal relationships and business decisions. I've passed on some really good (on paper) investments because of intuition...and then watched as they crashed and burned. Likewise I've ignored my gut and made some awful, awful decisions too.

I have no idea where that gut feeling comes from, but boy is it useful if you pay attention to it. (which is like the hardest thing ever for me lol)

 

[G-Man]

How does one explain visions and intuition?

I've read half of a Malcolm Gladwell book, and I watched some people do yoga once, so I think I'm qualified to answer.

Intuition - I think it's your brain acting on data you don't consciously realize is there... so there's probably no such thing as intuition.
Visions - No idea. Maybe some people really here the voice of God.... maybe we can just make ourselves believe and experience literally anything. No idea whatsoever.

 

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[Almantas]

Most people interpret God as a bearded guy sitting on a cloud that decides who goes up or down.

What if... our God is the master coder who has created the computer simulation of our existence?

That's deep. Lol.

 

[lowtek]

If it turns out to be true, my money is on an ancestor simulation. It's actually trillions of years into the future, and the "real humanity" is huddled around a dwindling number of black holes. They are black hole farming to simulate the glory days of the universe, when nuclear fuel was abundant and the universe was bathed in energy.

buttttttt....

there are (at least) two very significant problems with the simulation hypothesis:

1) The unspoken assumption in all of these arguments is that you even CAN simulate a mind.

I don't necessarily see a reason why you can't, but they tend to hand wave this away and say "moore's law!". It doesn't stand to reason that simply increasing computational power means you can simulate the mind of a human - let alone billions of them. We can't even define what it is to be sentient - so the certainty of being able to replicate it in a digital format seems very, very misplaced to me.

2) There's simply no evidence for it. One would expect to see, as we do with all computer simulations, digitization artifacts (i.e. aliasing in video games). As we probe deeper into the universe, we simply don't see this. That doesn't mean it isn't there, but the lack of it does call the idea into question.

 

[c_morris]

Visions are also communications from our subjective selves. Again, only if we are paying attention.

I'm not sure if this fits the vision category or if it's ESP. Maybe it's just a glitch in the simulation.

On my way home from work one day, a few wild turkeys ran across the road a few hundred feet in front of my car. I had never seen a wild turkey before and I was caught completely by surprise. I get home and ask ask my wife "Guess what I saw on my way home?". She immediately answers "Turkeys?" I was floored.

This happens with her and I a lot and I can't figure out if it's her reading my mind or me projecting my thoughts to her.

 

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[Almantas]

Maybe life as we know it is just real you (subconscious) spending the last years of your life plugged into a simulation that makes you think and feel like you're still young, while your wrecked body lies in a tube somewhere getting fed through an IV?

It's the best simulation you can get. Unfortunately.

P.S. And what if...if you're not conscious of a simulation, you're not IN the simulation - you are the simulation?

Anyways, if my life is a computer simulation, it must be a free version, because there are so many ads everywhere I look, lol.

 

[Coalission]

If you believe we're living in a simulation, can you no longer be considered an atheist? You have faith in something that you can't see and that there is zero evidence of, and you believe that the simulation was created by a god/gods. That means that even if you don't believe in religion, or a god that cares or even knows about your specific existence, you still believe in a "creator" that you can't see, and is just letting the simulation run its course.

 

[jpanarra]

I've been always infatuated with this topic and thought about it for a long time, major matrix fan since i was in HS in 1999.

One day I realized that its all irrelevant anyways because I discovered Rene Descartes and Cogito ergo sum, If we all were living in a simulation or some sort of possession by a demon that put this world in front of our eyes. The one thing that matters is that I know that I exist and how I make this world and it's experiences my own.. It could be anything, a program to some sort of mental projection of a nonreality.

 

[wade1mil]

Computer simulation? No.
Human simulation? Yes.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

If it turns out to be true, my money is on an ancestor simulation. It's actually trillions of years into the future, and the "real humanity" is huddled around a dwindling number of black holes. They are black hole farming to simulate the glory days of the universe, when nuclear fuel was abundant and the universe was bathed in energy.

Ya mean, the real humans are massively advanced and we're trying to relive our glory days? And since we're sitting around a black hole, does that mean time here on Earth is moving super-fast, relative to our blackhole brethren?

The movie Interstellar kinda goes down this route...

 

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[lowtek]

If we lived in a simulation, could we have the immense amount of free will that we have today? Do we have any free will?

I argue that free will is an illusion. You think you have it because when presented with a choice, you can imagine picking either option.

You can also imagine unicorns riding down a rainbow and bringing you the pot of gold they stole from the leprechaun.

The power to imagine something does not equate to its potential reality.

 

[jon.a]

If we observed a glitch in the universe, the nerd behind the simulation does a backup restore/rewind. None the wiser...

That's what eclipses are for.

 

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[SteveO]

Intuition - I think it's your brain acting on data you don't consciously realize is there... so there's probably no such thing as intuition.
Visions - No idea. Maybe some people really here the voice of God.... maybe we can just make ourselves believe and experience literally anything. No idea whatsoever.

Intuition is ourselves telling us something. We sometimes don't hear it because we are not well connected to our subjective selves. We also tend to not take action on intuitions because.... "that is just crazy"...

Visions are also communications from our subjective selves. Again, only if we are paying attention.

We know a lot more that we realize. All the answers are there if we can figure out a way to listen.

I have visions and seek them out to help make decisions and direction.

 

[SteveO]

I'm not sure if this fits the vision category or if it's ESP. Maybe it's just a glitch in the simulation.

On my way home from work one day, a few wild turkeys ran across the road a few hundred feet in front of my car. I had never seen a wild turkey before and I was caught completely by surprise. I get home and ask ask my wife "Guess what I saw on my way home?". She immediately answers "Turkeys?" I was floored.

This happens with her and I a lot and I can't figure out if it's her reading my mind or me projecting my thoughts to her.

And as coincidences go.... I just saw turkeys that would be considered wild, today, for the first time. It was back in a canyon by a lake just outside of San Diego. I'm sure it is not their natural habitat but they were there.

Perhaps they were programmed in to coincide with this post.

 

[lowtek]

Mathematics doesn't govern our world. We invented mathematics to make the world more understandable and find patterns. We are pattern finding creatures after all.

You've got it backwards. We only exist because the world is understandable.

We exist because the physical laws are such that they allow intelligent life to evolve.

Since those laws predate our existence, we didn't invent them; they invented us.

Those physical laws are described by a self consistent system we call mathematics.

Therefore mathematics has an existence independent of our description of it.

 

[lowtek]

It would be more accurate to say mathematics was invented to assist in our discovery, not that reality itself is governed by mathematical equations.

It helps us understand some fundamental truths but in the end math is a tool that exists only in our minds, just like language is nothing but symbols(words) representing thoughts that are used to communicate.

This is evidenced by pure mathematics which is most of the time completely abstract.

Every now and then we may have a use for pure mathematics like with Mandelbrot's discovery of fractal geometry but it started out as a mere abstraction proving math was invented to help discovery, not that it's a discovery in itself.

This is an interesting and intelligent objection.

Does the existence of abstract mathematics invalidate the independent existence of applied mathematics?

I don't believe it does - Maxwell's equations ( simple calculus ) were always true, and will always be true. We wouldn't exist if light weren't a thing. As I stated earlier, I think the fact we exist is strong evidence that physical laws ( and hence the mathematics that govern them ) have some sort of reality all their own.

None of the abstract math you reference, or indeed any that I'm aware of, invalidate any known physical laws. Mathematics seems to be self consistent.

A loose linguistic analogy would be that horses don't cease to exist simply because we abstracted mythical creatures called unicorns that happen to be very similar. The horse exists regardless of what you want to call it, what word you use to describe its color, and what other similar creatures you can invent.

The symbols we use to represent mathematics are arbitrary, but the dynamics mathematics describes are not and have a reality all their own. Light, gravity, nuclear forces... all are mathematical in nature and very very real.

An interesting twist to this is if these so called abstract maths that seem to have no connection to our reality, actually govern some sort of dynamics in other regions of the multiverse. Perhaps we are peeking into other realities without realizing it.

 

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[Sequential]

I think the Matrix is pretty accurate apart from the whole machines feeding on us part.

 

[luniac]

It's not possible to simulate that in OUR reality. We don't know what other realities are capable of doing.

It's akin to telling Julius Caesar that in the future there would be computers that allow us to have face to face conversations with people on the other side of the world, satellites orbiting the earth, cables that connect the world at the bottom of the the ocean, etc.

Julius Caesar would look at you like: "wtf?"

There isn't any method to disprove that we're living in a simulation.

The better question would be:

If we can say with 100% certainty that we're living in a simulation, does it change our reality?

Say that to Caesar's face, I dare you.

 

[VentureVoyager]

Maybe yes, maybe not, but it just shifts the focus and if it's true, it still doesn't really answer any big questions: who created the "programmer"/simulation/that super advanced civilization that runs us, what is the universe, is there a God and if there is, does God have any consciousness or is it just a big clockwork-like quantum mechanism, who/what created God etc. And the most important question of them all: what is love? And why can't MJ just take us by the hand and give us all these proven step-by-step strategies on how to effortlessly become a millionaire in less than 365 days?

 

[GMSI7D]

seriously... been on this forum for 5 years and still poor, I think MJ might be a scammer!!!
definitely not my fastlane to nowhere to blame haha

MJ DeMarco is indeed the architect of the matrix called " become the next milionaire "

we are slaves on his forum, writting all day to feed the system

 

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[ReubenA]

Sorry, but that line of linear thinking just doesn't make sense...

That's like telling someone 100 years ago that storing the amount of data we currently have stored on this planet would be impossible, because there aren't enough trees to cut down and turn into paper. Turns out that we were able to innovate and create a better technology for storing data than paper (whodathunkit???).

Who knows, maybe in a year or two or ten or hundred, we'll have technologies that allow us to model the Universe that fit in the palm of our hands. It's no more crazy that the idea of the Internet 100 years ago...

Not to mention.. what does '128 Computers' mean? There's a massive range in computing power. Maybe their department is under-funded and has shitty computers.

Not even 100 years, but 10,000 years in the future. What will the world look like in 10,000 years? Think of a caveman trying to understand a smartphone, or even electricity

The argument for us being in a simulation is based on the presupposition that humans will reach a point in time in which the thing in which we're living in can be simulated. Doesn't matter when it happens.

If we can/do.. the chance of us being in base/real reality is very, very low

Lots of info on this here, it's super interesting: Are You Living in a Computer Simulation?

 

[G-Man]

If it turns out to be true, my money is on an ancestor simulation. It's actually trillions of years into the future, and the "real humanity" is huddled around a dwindling number of black holes. They are black hole farming to simulate the glory days of the universe, when nuclear fuel was abundant and the universe was bathed in energy.

"huddled around a dwindling number of black holes" - You had to know it'd be a shitty movie if we're the origin story prequel.

 

[luniac]

Watch it, it's a similar premise to your movie lol

Perhaps FB could decode it. My guess is, why waste time when you can start over and plug in rules to straighten it out.

When you dig up an ancient civ, you have markings. On clay pots for example.

2 distinct symbols, in the middle of town. Possibly a public market.

As you keep digging you uncover a basement full of pots with 1 of the marks. Turns out, it's near a vineyard, so you attribute it to wine/grapes.

Next, one is near a barn....milk/cheese.

Soon you have an understanding of the language. Kind of like a tourist walking around with a dictionary in a foreign country. Just figuring out enough to order food and ask for directions.

Ill check eagle movie out although shia lebouff has questionable acting lol
That's a great point bout facebook not wasting time, they could just program in some more helpful tools and literally restart the experiment.
I gotta check out the latest news on that front.
yea archeology is very interesting stuff in general, uncovering mysteries and shit, the answer is always aliens.

 

[GMSI7D]

I've been always infatuated with this topic and thought about it for a long time, major matrix fan since i was in HS in 1999.

One day I realized that its all irrelevant anyways because I discovered Rene Descartes and Cogito ergo sum, If we all were living in a simulation or some sort of possession by a demon that put this world in front of our eyes. The one thing that matters is that I know that I exist and how I make this world and it's experiences my own.. It could be anything, a program to some sort of mental projection of a nonreality.

this whole world is completely controlled.


our so called" freedom " is just the freedom to walk freely in our cell in this jail called the earth

this is not really freedom

true freedom is inside.

this world is a giant test for awareness put in place by aliens. this an ant farm for them

either you understand the test or you fail


you can only escape by working on yourself : your level of awareness

---> this is an awareness war . our controllers are limited on this level


they work on the mental and reptilian brain : no compassion, power, hierarchy and so on


people can't escape the cunning of our controllers unless they have reached superior level of awareness


one of my favourite thought :

you can't escape perversity with time or space, it will find you anyway

you can only escape perversity with an awareness above it : above the matrix control system

 

[socaldude]

Yes, I believe something like that.

But not exactly a computer simulation.

Our imagination loves to ties things to which we are familiar. Therefore a "computer simulation" is the closest analogy we can come up with. If its true then how can we use our senses to "see" another dimension if your senses are limited to this "dimension"? Therefore it very difficult to picture how that would look like. Remember how descartes said your sense cannot be trusted?

Physics strongly suggests the possibility of other dimensions. There's no proof, but the evidence "strongly suggests" or "more likely than not" that our dimension is kinda of like a "projection" from another reality. Kind of like how a movie is played at a cinema; a machine with a tape unknown to the audience projects a movie. And we are fixated to that movie but are completely oblivious to the causes.

 

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[socaldude]

And its actually funny because non of these ideas are new.

Plato was on the first to theorize about this.

He called them "forms". The objects in this physical dimension are actually projections of "essences" from another dimension.

Freaking brilliant.

 

[Almantas]

'Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.' - Albert Einstein.

 

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