Advice Needed: Dealing with ex's & money matters....

[hakrjak]

Folks -- I need some advice here...

ATW's "Rant" post hit a nerve with me in one of the other forums, so I decided to solicit the forum for advice here regarding a personal finance matter that is plaguing me currently.

I'm having trouble dealing with my ex with regards to money matters. I currently pay full child support to her each month, as we split the custody of the kids about 60/40.

Something that is pretty typical of the situation happened recently, and the kids needed about $1500 of dental work. Of course I paid it, because I don't want my kids walking around with rotten teeth -- and when I asked the ex to kick in her half, it was her usual reply -- "Well you know I don't have any money... I don't even have a job... where is the money supposed to come from? How am I supposed to pay? Am I even obligated to pay you half? You make more money than I do -- so you should have to pay!"

What do you do in this situation? Sucking it up, and letting it roll off of my back is getting pretty old fast.... FYI -- my current girlfriend, who lives with the kids & I -- Keeps telling me that I'm being a doormat, and I need to stand up to the ex and just start garnishing her child support checks for the money that she owes me (Which I don't even know if that's legal... But her point is that I need to get tough... If I reduce my monthly payment, I can almost guarentee that she'll be unable to pay her rent, and her & the kids will have to move back in with her parents... )

I live my life very responsibly, and cut back & save so that I can afford the things the kids need. We hardly ever eat out, go out, etc anymore -- Whereas it seems like the ex is eating out quite often, and is shopping atleast twice a week. Of course her boyfriend is a dirtbag who lives with her, makes a small income - but doesn't contribute any rent. Must be nice to live off my child support checks, right? -- My point is... it seems like she has money for the things that are important to her, and the kids medical bills are not a priority for her!?

Give me some advice here folks... What do you do with an ex who expects you to pay 100% of the kids incidentals, simply because she's unwilling to work and carry her share of the load?

- Hakrjak

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Diane Kennedy]

My two cents....

It's about your kids not your ex. They didn't ask for any of this and are the innocent victims caught in the middle. So, no matter what, suck it up and be grateful you have enough money to pay for what your kids need. And never never never talk badly about their mother to them or in front of them.

And the part that's going to most likely make you mad - I'd kick the girlfriend to the curb for berating you for doing anything that doesn't help your kids. The fact is those kids (presumably) were around before the girlfriend. For the rest of their lives, they need to come first. If she's got a problem with that, she either needs to keep it herself or get over it.

And now that I've beaten you up, congratulations on taking care of your kids and caring about them. And for that matter, just staying active in their lives. They need you and they especially need you as a responsible financial role model.

 

[hakrjak]

Thanks for the other point of view. There's definitely a lot of different ways people approach such a problem.

Just to clarify -- I'm not wealthy enough yet to where this type of thing isn't a burden to me, because it definitely causes financial strain for me.

Also I'm worried that this is just the tip of the iceburg, and as the kids get older and need more expensive things (Cars, Clothes, Camp, College, etc) -- I'm going to continue to get stuck with the bill, because of this pattern of behavior I'm sort of supporting right now. I'll be the first one to admit that I sometimes tend to avoid conflict, and look for the way to keep things calm and civil vs. standing up for myself & making sure I get a fair deal.

Thanks again,

- Hakrjak

 

[Bilgefisher]

Hakrjak,
Ive never been married, (take with a grain of salt) but I have seen the ugly side of divorces and custody before. The military has a 70% divorce rate. I have helped many close friends struggle through this.

The major thing I can suggest is document everything. If you pay 100%, then that needs to be recorded for future use. The friends I have lose in these situations had nothing more then he said she said. In custody battles, it has been my experience that the court favors the mother, (not looking for an argument here folks) so you need to be the one prepared.

Kudos on taking care of the kids. I fully support that. I respect others opinions and value them, but I personally disagree with taking 100% of the load. She is as much the mother as you are the father. If she is not financially supporting them, then again you need to record (every specific time, date and amount) this and talk to your lawyer. Unless you push back, it will never change.

Sorry I can't help more.

edit: This may upset some but here again is my opinion. If she is unwilling to work to provide for her own children and is selfish enough to let a boyfriend siphon off the child support, then maybe you should push for the custody.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AroundTheWorld]

First of all, I've no experience in divorce, so I'm sure you have had to deal with a lot of difficult matters in which I have no knowledge. I can't pretend to understand the difficulties... but, I am a parent.... and I have had several relationships in which I either enabled or tried to change the other person. Those lessons could be applied to your situation.

You can't make your ex change. You can't make her make more money and you can't make her manager her money in a different way. All you can control is your financial decisions, your interactions with your kids and your interactions with your ex.

Here is another way to look at things:

If you were still married, who would be paying for the braces and the cars and etc. etc. ? You stated that these items currently put a strain on you. Wouldn't these items be putting a strain on you anyway? (if you were not divorced?) Wouldn't you still have 100% of this dental bill? When you become a parent, you are making a commitment to be responsible for them 100% of the time.

You hope that you will have a partner (the other parent) for the journey, but having that partner doesn't take your responsiblity away. You are still 100% responsible. Certainly, when you have a partner, the burdens that are associated with parenthood are lighter, but your level of responsiblity has not been reduced. So, if the partner goes away (divorce and many other issues could cause this) your burden becomes greater, but the responsibility level has not changed.

 

[AroundTheWorld]

Also,

If your ex is miss managing money, or if she is not putting her priorities straight (money for the care of the kids) I can understand how that would be really frustrating for you.

How do you think that will impact the kids?

What can you, as their parent, do about that? - - - remember, you can't control her behavior, only your own.

 

[GoldenEggs]

At a prior job, our file clerk was going through a similar situation. He often ended up bringing his kids (toddler age) to work because their mother was unfit to take care of them that day. He paid child support while their mother did nothing. He ended up suing her (not sure if that is the correct term?) for full custody. I don't know if you want to go that route.

I don't know how family law works but can the judge do anything?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[^eagle^]

I pay my ex wife's mortgage as my child support. I had it drawn up in the divorce decree. It works out great because She gets a place to stay for free and I get the tax write off. I use it as a rental property with no income. The mortgae is a little bit more than what i am obligated to pay. But it is offset by the tax benefit.

Laws vary from state to state. florida has a formula that determines exactly how much child support a person gets depending on how much income each person makes and how many children are involved..

If you have a 60/40 split for custody In Florida you can get rotating custody which means NO ONE gets child support. I would contact a family law attorney to find out what yoru rights are.

 

[PEERless]

Yuck! I don't like that custody and monetary support are not equal. If she has the kids 60% of the time, she should pay 60% of their expenses.

 

[Diane Kennedy]

In a partnership, partners are jointly and severally liable for misdeeds, etc... So, if I have a General Partnership with Fred and he signs a stupid lease on behalf of the partnership and has no money, creditors can come after me for everything. They actually could do that even if he had money. Jointly and severally liable means that you both are liable together and separately for everything.

If it's true in business, it's a million times more true in life. What if you were married, had kids and your spouse was in a debilitating accident that meant forever more it would be a one income household. That's life. That's what you signed on for. You could divorce your spouse, but you'd still be 100% liable for costs for the kids.

It's not "fair" but whatever you think may/may not be fair for you, consider the kids. When they're 18, sue your spouse for back payments if you want. And maybe it makes sense, if you want, to try to get full custody. But meanwhile, it isn't going to be fair no matter what.

You are tied forever to the mother/father of your kids. I tell my son that all the time. Be careful of the choices you make. Consequences can last forever.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[PEERless]

^OMG! I will never marry.

 

[mtnman]

I understand the hostility toward the ex. Often the ongoing relationship afterward really bites, especially when one doesn't uphold their end. If you want to change that, you have to do as others mentioned. Start documenting, and then take her to court.

I must add, it really is about your kids though. If anyone knows about not having a father, I do. When I was too young to remember, my parents split up. Shortly after, because of a situation like yours, my father left the country. In case you're not aware, getting any kind of support from a foreign land is not possible. My mom raised me by herself my entire life. It's one thing if a parent just disappears off the face of the earth and to accept that loss. It's another to grow up knowing damn well where they are and insensitively be introduced to "phone relationships" as the norm. This is a VERY vague description, but I'm trying to get a the point across without a dramatic detailed story.

You're doing what you need to for your children, and THAT will be with you for the rest of your life. The pennies here and there will soon be forgotten. You might go through hell at some point of this, but your future generation will be much more fulfilling, as well as your own.

In case your kids are to young, or just don't realize, but will someday, I'll speak for them here -- "Thanks for taking care of us Dad, you're the best and we love you"

 

[CactusWren]

Fully agree with Diane's first post. You made a choice and these are the consequences, the children are innocent and victims of the situation. Maybe your current girlfriend could be proactive in the money making enterprise and not negative...

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Diane Kennedy]

And Hakrjak, taking care of your kids IS standing up and doing the right thing.

There is NOTHING weak about taking care of your children. I might be completely misunderstanding your posts, but I think you might have a fear that you need to be confrontational in order to not be considered weak.

Being a true man is being their Dad. They need you and you're providing it. They'll remember that. PLUS they have an amazing role model of this is what you do for others. You give when it's right and even when it's not.

 

[tbsells]

Hakrjak,
I respect that you are doing the right thing. Not all fights are worth fighting, and constantly fighting with your childrens mother over money is not going to benefit anybody. I do think that maybe you should consider pursuing full custody of the kids. I know its an uphill fight for a father legally, but it may be a fight worth fighting. Your short post reveals many flaws (character and otherwise) in this woman and the man she's living with. It really sounds like the kids would be far better off with you. I know its not that simple, but may be something you should consider. Best wishes.

 

[yveskleinsky]

Well, she's the one you chose to make babies with. Not everything can be fixed, and yeah the unfairness of it all sucks. Imagine how unfair it is to your kids. Right now they have their mother shacking up with a dirtbag, and dad with a girlfriend who isn't thrilled about their mother. You and your ex created this situation- there is nothing fair about it in any sense. My .02 is if your ex-wife is living with some dirtbag, then get custody of the kids! All you can do at this point is try to minimize the damage. Put on a happy face when the kids are around and never talk about their mom or about money. Your kids need to know that they come first - no matter what. ...It sounds like you will have ongoing issues with your girlfriend about money and kids because she's not going to want to share- that's pretty common. This is a huge generalization, but, most men and women who date people with kids, don't accept the kids- they gloss over the situation like those kids are from their past and something they can deal with because the kids are only in their life part-time. With this menality things get uglier if you and your ex get married to other people. The new spouse will want their own family with you and the kids become nothing more than visitors- they have no home as they bounce back and forth between mom and dad. Ideally, focus on your kids until they're grown and out of the house, then get a girlfriend.

Sorry for the rant, I've just seen this situation too many times.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AroundTheWorld]

It is easy to feel reactionary to the situation - - - but just as other's have mentioned before, it is about the kids.... that goes for how money is spent and for custody as well.

Kids do best with both parents. Even if one is flawed (aren't we all?). Unless there is abuse or neglect, "taking away" one parent will leave a big void in the hearts of those kids.

Custody decisions need to be made based on them, not on some inbalance in the financial contributions.

And... on "fair" I really dislike that word. There are 3 forbidden words in our house...

• Not Fair - no such thing as fair, so of course it isn't fair. This is your life, these are the cards you were dealt, whatcha going to do about it?
  
• Stuff - describe it.
  
• Nothing - No... not nothing... what is really going on?

Diane's description of one parent getting into an accident is a perfect example.

 

[yveskleinsky]

To me, shared custody is more for the parents than it is for the kids. Kids never have a place to call home; they're at dad for 3 nights then mom's for 4. The never live anywhere, but the parents think they're doing what's fair. Personally, I think it's best to have shared visitation but one parent that the kid lives with, so there is some sense of routine and normalcy. Just my .02.

 

[kidgas]

I have no personal experience with divorce and/or custody. However, I have seen several custody and support issues through my friend's viewpoints. Now for my 0.02:

If you truly have them 40% of the time, I would look into alternative custody options. Either you could pursue full custody, or apply for joint custody 50/50 and have the court modify your support accordingly.

Do you get any credit on your taxes for your portion of the support? Any deductions, etc? Since I don't have any experience with this, I think it would be terrible if you are paying alot of support plus dental expenses while she gets full tax deductions and other child credits (plus the recent refunds). Ouch.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Diane Kennedy]

Do you get any credit on your taxes for your portion of the support? Any deductions, etc? Since I don't have any experience with this, I think it would be terrible if you are paying alot of support plus dental expenses while she gets full tax deductions and other child credits (plus the recent refunds). Ouch.

The tax stuff I can answer! Finally something that is black and white, sort of.

There is no deduction for child support. My guess is the divorce agreement said something on who gets the tax exemption for the kids. It's common these days for the parents to take turns - one year mom takes the deduction and the next dad does.

 

[cmartin371]

Here is another way to look at things:

If you were still married, who would be paying for the braces and the cars and etc. etc. ? You stated that these items currently put a strain on you. Wouldn't these items be putting a strain on you anyway? (if you were not divorced?) Wouldn't you still have 100% of this dental bill? When you become a parent, you are making a commitment to be responsible for them 100% of the time.

You hope that you will have a partner (the other parent) for the journey, but having that partner doesn't take your responsiblity away. You are still 100% responsible. Certainly, when you have a partner, the burdens that are associated with parenthood are lighter, but your level of responsiblity has not been reduced. So, if the partner goes away (divorce and many other issues could cause this) your burden becomes greater, but the responsibility level has not changed.

I think the point he is trying to make is (example) that sometimes monthly child support can be more than a mortgage payment. So now he has to pay for a place for himself to live and make sure it is liveable for kids 40% of the time, and pay for another place for his ex and the kids to live 60% of the time. Yes he is always 100% responsible, but if they had not gone there separate ways only one residence would be required.

I too am in a similar situation. I do not normally express my feelings on the situation. I have no problem stepping up to the plate to take care of my daughter. I am just thankful that I get time with her and enjoy every minute of that time.........

Chris

 

[rcardin]

I have a completely different perspective. My wife's ex was a drunk and a total a$$hole. She left him and we moved to Dallas. "Our" daughter is now 11. She was 2 1/2 when we got together. She can't stand her real dad and says all the time a dad is the one who takes care of you. We are fortunate that we don't need the measley 250 a month child support when it actually does come in. He is about 20k in back medical insurance and around 10k in child support behind. One day he will finally come through or die, until then he will be paying for his child the rest of his life.
Children are a responsibility for life where as ex spouses are there as long as you let them be.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[I85]

IMO, I need more information.

Folks -- I need some advice here...

ATW's "Rant" post hit a nerve with me in one of the other forums, so I decided to solicit the forum for advice here regarding a personal finance matter that is plaguing me currently.

I'm having trouble dealing with my ex with regards to money matters. I currently pay full child support to her each month, as we split the custody of the kids about 60/40.

Something that is pretty typical of the situation happened recently, and the kids needed about $1500 of dental work. Of course I paid it, because I don't want my kids walking around with rotten teeth -- and when I asked the ex to kick in her half, it was her usual reply -- "Well you know I don't have any money... I don't even have a job(Why is this? How long has this been going on? How many hours a day does she spend looking for one?)... where is the money supposed to come from? How am I supposed to pay? (from the job she should have) Am I even obligated to pay you half? You make more money than I do -- so you should have to pay!"(makes me question her character)

What do you do in this situation? Sucking it up, and letting it roll off of my back is getting pretty old fast.... FYI -- my current girlfriend, who lives with the kids & I -- Keeps telling me that I'm being a doormat, and I need to stand up to the ex and just start garnishing her child support checks for the money that she owes me (Which I don't even know if that's legal... But her point is that I need to get tough... If I reduce my monthly payment, I can almost guarentee that she'll be unable to pay her rent, and her & the kids will have to move back in with her parents... ) (what is your GFs reasoning for this? Is it to eventually gain custody of the kids or is it just so you two would have more money?)

I live my life very responsibly, and cut back & save so that I can afford the things the kids need. We hardly ever eat out, go out, etc anymore -- Whereas it seems like the ex is eating out quite often, and is shopping atleast twice a week. Of course her boyfriend is a dirtbag who lives with her, makes a small income - but doesn't contribute any rent. (again makes me question the mothers character. BTW do either of them do drugs, and can you be 100% sure either way? Do you know for sure if either of them have a bad past with drugs or alcohol? Are either of them big drinkers? What does the BF do for a living? Is it a full time job? You say dirtbag...he obviously sounds like one...but just how big of a loser is he? more examples?) Must be nice to live off my child support checks, right? -- My point is... it seems like she has money for the things that are important to her, and the kids medical bills are not a priority for her!?

Give me some advice here folks... What do you do with an ex who expects you to pay 100% of the kids incidentals, simply because she's unwilling to work and carry her share of the load?(I would file for custody and do everything I can to keep her from the kids until she learns to grow up.....at least from what I have read here. As for that having in court....I don't know about that. All I know is that I would try. )

- Hakrjak

 

[^eagle^]

I would file for custody and do everything I can to keep her from the kids until she learns to grow up.....at least from what I have read here. As for that having in court....I don't know about that. All I know is that I would try.

A woman has to be a REALLY bad Mother for her to lose custody. My ex does a lot of things that i do not agree with but I know my chances are slim to none as long as she isn't neglectful or abusive.

Fortunately I have a better relationship with my ex than I did when I was married. In Florida you have no say over how child support is spent unless you did what I did and have it written up in a decree as a special addendum. Each state is different so that is why you need to go to an attourney.

 

[hakrjak]

Thanks for all the replies & different points of view. You guys are more helpful than you know

To answer a few of your questions/concerns:

- I have no plans to try to go for full custody. The kids love their Mom, and just because she is completely financially irresponsible doesn't make her a bad mother. Also, the "dirtbag" that she lives with actually treats the kids really well -- and I have no problem with him other than the fact that he does not contribute much to their household financially... out of my control. She's also not a druggy, a drunk or anything like that -- LOL

- Just to clarify -- I was never married, and there was no divorce. I was engaged to the kids Mom, and we split up when they were about 6 months old. Now they are 5. There is no divorce decree, no formal agreement, nothing has gone through the courts on this matter ever. We've settled outside of court using the standard formulas available to calculate child support, and to this point we've been able to share expenses in a way that we both agree with.

- My current girlfriend/fiance sees the financial strain that this puts on me, and that's why she is voicing her concerns. The extra money coming out of our pockets is definitely impacting our ability to get married, have a normal family life, etc... (The girls keep asking when they can be our flower girls) -- She already contributes financially to our household/family -- and she spends a lot of her "extra" money on the kids in the form of clothes, food, toys -- whatever they want. She's doing a great job blending into the situation, so I just wanted to point that out. It's definitely no easy job what she's doing, so I definitely commend her -- because with my personal experience in my situation, I can't honestly say that I would jump at the chance to ever date a woman with kids and an ex -- And we have no plans to have any further children.

Overall -- I'm really looking for some ways to encourage the ex to get her "stuff" together, and start working and carrying her share of the water with regards to the kids. She seems to have a real "entitlement" mentality, as she takes money from me, her parents -- anybody who will give. Anything that has gone wrong in her life is someone else's fault (i.e. "You got me pregnant and made me gain all this weight!", or "They fired me because I missed work again... What nazis!"). I've already accepted that in the short term I've got to keep the wheels turning, and keep things going in the right direction as I have been -- But if things could improve, that would definitely be cream on the cake.

Cheers,

- Hakrjak:thankyousign:

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AroundTheWorld]

Really? Not a druggie? Oh darn. Where is the scandal? (kidding )

The key is to figure out how to

• Make sure your kids get what they need.
• Make sure you are not enabling her irresponsible spending habits.
• Make sure you know you can't change her behavior.

So.... (brainstorming - thinking outloud here)

No $ (as in cash that can be spent on who knows what) to her... only $ or the actual items needed for the kids.

Ask her to do a joint savings account for the kids.... even $20 bucks a month is a start.... a "fund" for medical / dental etc. $4,000 or what ever it is might seem overwhelming to her - but $20 a month is atleast something. (doubtful it will work given an entitlement mentality though)

Beyond that .... sorry. only one more idea. Make more money. :smxA:

 

[yveskleinsky]

Thanks for all the replies & different points of view. You guys are more helpful than you know

To answer a few of your questions/concerns:

- I have no plans to try to go for full custody. The kids love their Mom, and just because she is completely financially irresponsible doesn't make her a bad mother. Also, the "dirtbag" that she lives with actually treats the kids really well -- and I have no problem with him other than the fact that he does not contribute much to their household financially... out of my control. She's also not a druggy, a drunk or anything like that -- LOL

Sorry for my earlier rant. I was in no way implying that she was a bad mom because she was financially responsible! I was focused on the fact that you were letting them live with a "dirtbag". I guess we have different definitions of what a dirtbag is/does. My answer was based on my experience with kids who had real dirtbags as step- parents. It was crazy making having the parents more concerned about money than their child's well-being. I'm SO glad to hear that is not the case here. Again, I apologize for being so over-the-top with my responses- you already have 2 women on your back- you don't need a 3rd!

Here's some advice that is more appropriate- since you guys don't have anything formally drawn up, why don't you start there? I think someone suggested this already, but could you have her live in a home that you own and you take the tax credit, as well as state that she is just a renter? Maybe this could be done in lieu of child support. ...I don't think dictating how she spends money you give her will work, as she's not good with money and there will always be an excuse as to why she had to spend it on something else; and the courts generally don't care how she spends child support money as long as she's not neglecting the kids. Best of luck to you, just realize this is who your ex is, and she's probably not going to change- kids and money is going to be a thorn in your side until they are 18, and it will probably not get any better as they get older. The earlier you come to terms with what your reality will most likely be, the less upset you'll be when your ex "acts up". Outside of trying to draw up a legal agreement (which really is the best, that way both parties clearly know what they are responsible for), all you can do is put a smile on your face, take your kids out to the park, be thankful for what is going right in your life and not be surprised by her behavior.

 

[Russ H]

. . .this is who your ex is, and she's probably not going to change.

The earlier you come to terms with this, the less upset you'll be when your ex "acts up".

Outside drawing up a legal agreements, what you can do is:
- put a smile on your face,
- take your kids out to the park,
- be thankful for what is going right in your life and,
- not be surprised by her behavior.

Rep speed.

-Russ H.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Z5 FILMS]

Give me some advice here folks... What do you do with an ex who expects you to pay 100% of the kids incidentals, simply because she's unwilling to work and carry her share of the load?

- Hakrjak

You go down to you local pediatric cancer center, look at the kids with terminal cancer and talk to the parents who would give everything they have ever worked for to be in your shoes, and the problem with your dead beat ex and the $1,500 dental bill will instantly go away.

 

[RealOG]

Sounds like you are working your a$$ off to support your kids, despite your ex making it as difficult as she can for you. That's commendable, you are doing the right thing. I dont think your current GF is a bad person, I think she is just looking out for you because she cares for you.

This sounds less about money and more about emotion (at least with your ex). I closely watch an ugly divorce unfold with my buddy: lawsuits, custody battles, restraining orders, child abuse accusations... ugly. And its still going on!

Its like tug-o-war. Two opponents on pedastals over a pool of muddy water, tugging the hell out of it until someone falls in. Usually they both do. My advice is to just let go of the rope... what's the ultimate goal? Keeping the kids healthy and happy.

By focusing on your ex, you may lose sight of results for your kids. You need to focus on what's best for them and do your best to achieve that for them.

Can you afford to pay for the braces without risking your future ability to provide for your kids? If the answer is "yes", sack up and make it happen. If the answer is "no", dont risk your long term ability to provide the basics for them. Braces are an important part of life, but you can survive without them.