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OFF-TOPIC A Mass of Mass Shootings... Guns? Or Mental Illness?

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TonyStark

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I hate when we describe and sort of killer as having a “mental illness” because it takes away responsibility from the killer and makes him a victim of his “mental illness”.

Mental illness isn’t the problem in America, it’s that these damn people committing murders are idiots, and have no real sense of purpose in life.

They’re low-life scum bags. That’s it.
 

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G-Man

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That’s because cars aren’t meant for murdering people.

And people aren’t purposefully trying to kill each other with cars.
Some do.

And that wasn’t the point of the post he’s quoting. The point is that driving cars are an example of the fact that people are willing to sacrifice the lives of others if it increases their quality of life. Some people. Maybe just me. I’m sure you don’t drive.
 

Real Deal Denver

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Oh that's typical. The same way people worried about Terrorism where statistically the odds of being crushed to death by furniture were higher.

View attachment 26380

(Don't know how exact those figures are, but NDT is usually pretty reliable)
Neil deGrasse Tyson apologized this morning following a tweet Sunday deemed “insensitive” about the weekend mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton that sparked a fierce reaction on social media, but not everyone is accepting his apology...

Tyson’s apology sparked nearly as much criticism as the initial tweet.

“I find it incredulous that an intellectual such as Neil deGrasse Tyson would be so unwittingly tone deaf at a time like this,” wrote a Facebook commenter named Andrew Smith. “Which makes his attempt at an apology rather disingenuous.”

Another Facebook user, Kellie Gerardi, commented below Tyson’s new post: “The depth of your reflection in this note is offensively shallow. You used data to draw a false equivalence with unfathomably hurtful timing, and your arrogance has you doubling down with ‘true but unhelpful’. Why even bother with a note?”

Tens of thousands Twitter users came out with a strong response to Tyson’s tweets on Sunday.

“Cold take, Neil. 200+ Americans died from gun violence in the past 48 hours,” author and gun control activist Shannon Watts responded.


On the other side...

Finally, to borrow a phrase from the Editorial Board, we have been hit by a series of terror attacks. But terrorists — whether they’re a “lone wolf” or organized — don’t care about our gun laws, any more than the terrorists who ignored France’s draconian gun control laws in 2015 and used fully automatic firearms to murder 90 people at the Bataclan theater.

No, if terrorists were to strike into our malls and neighborhoods, we should hope and pray there will be people like Stephen Willeford — a retired plumber who used his AR-15-style rifle to mortally wound a de facto terrorist in Texas two years ago.


And now for the moment that changed my life. WARNING - What you about to read in the remainder of this post is deeply disturbing. It greatly affected me when I read it years ago, and is still in the back of my mind today. IF you do not want to know how evil and gory these sick bastards can be - in gruesome detail - do NOT continue to read this post.

Bataclan theatre massacre

The French Parliamentary report contains details of how victims' bodies had been mutilated, such as by eye-gouging, disemboweling, castration, and beheading; however, some French law enforcement officials have insisted that the injuries were caused only by gunfire and shrapnel.


Bullshit.

I read, but cannot find online now, of how men were castrated alive and forced to EAT their testicles. Women were STABBED with knives UP their vaginas and bled to death.

Those details are, understandably, repressed. Unspeakable evil.

After I read that I immediately went out and bought two pistols and a good supply of hollow-point bullets. One for me and one for my wife. That news report hardened my view on protecting myself and my family - right then and there.

From now on...

26398
26397

26399
 

TonyStark

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Some do.

And that wasn’t the point of the post he’s quoting. The point is that driving cars are an example of the fact that people are willing to sacrifice the lives of others if it increases their quality of life. Some people. Maybe just me. I’m sure you don’t drive.
Do you just live your life hoping to get into petulant little arguments with people on the internet?
 

G-Man

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Do you just live your life hoping to get into petulant little arguments with people on the internet?
Sure. Nothing introspective about it.
 

ZZZ

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But, if you took a poll, I'm guessing most people would disagree with this direction on drug.
I can't see why your guessing makes your argument or statements hold any more than mine.
To clarify my position I believe drugs should be decriminalized, and that attempting to get rid of them (like guns) is unreasonable and makes little sense as an alternative would present itself the moment they are banned and someone wants said thing.
People want what they want! If it's drugs or to kill people, the solution is fixing the cause of the problem, not removing the things used or done.
 

ZZZ

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I immediately went out and bought two pistols and a good supply of hollow-point bullets. One for me and one for my wife. That news report hardened my view on protecting myself and my family - right then and there.
Good, nothing faster or more effective than a 9mm at stopping rapes, home invasions, muggings, etc.
A sign I once read was "The average response time for a 911 call is 20 minutes. Response time for a 9mm is 1300 feet per second!"
 

ZZZ

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It wasn't really a guess. I was just saying that to avoid having to point out how obvious it was.
I don't understand what your position is. You claimed I was making a logical fallacy, because you guess that most Americans would support getting rid of crack and heroin?
Of course they would, but that's not the argument anyone is making for or against. Because that doesn't make sense. You can't simply get rid of drugs, the problem is larger than that and the solution again is not the drugs themselves but the people and reasons they are using drugs.
 

Bertram

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I've looked and there really isn't any evidence that I can tell. Harvard says self defense guns are used in about 1% of crimes where victim has contact with perpetrator.


There's a couple of weaknesses to the analysis, namely that often when crime is prevented, nothing is reported to police. That said, it seems unlikely that this weakness will turn 1% into 10%.

There's the deterrent argument, but that's going to be impossible to quantify, i.e, how many people would be burglars if they weren't afraid of getting shot by the gun owner in the house.

All the country by country comparisons are fundamentally effed, because you can't use one country as an analog for another, and crime is pretty difficult to understand, even in the context of a single country/culture/legal system. But, nobody teaches you how to tell what data does and doesn't say in school, so we'll keep being subjected to Facebook posts drawing a straight line between gun ownership rates and crime rates in the US versus Norway, or US versus Venezuela until the end of time.

In my opinion, it comes to subjective value judgments we make based on what we believe best serves our own personal interests, and what we think our own personal risks/rewards are. It's made even more complicated by the fact that we can't even accurately measure our own personal risk profile in stuff like this. It's more an intuitive guess. i.e., I have several guns in my home. If a series of events went sideways, like I forgot to lock the gun cabinet AND forgot to install the trigger lock, my 3 year old could shoot himself. I estimate that the risk less than the net benefit of having a gun in the house to protect the family plus the enjoyment I get from the gun.

Do I have any data to support this? No. Even If I use data from national statistics, it's not super relevant, because every situation is different. I'm operating on sheer old fashioned, unreliable intuition.

Mostly, we make these selfish value judgments, then compose arguments around them after the fact. We includes me. I'll 100% admit to it. We do this for two main reasons that I can tell:
  • We don't like to think of ourselves as irrational and don't want others to think of us that way
  • We don't like to think we put our own self-interest ahead of the safety and lives of others, and don't want others to see us that way.
Again, that's why I don't like this debate, even though I clearly have some impulsive need to engage in it.
There's nothing selfish about using your value judgments. The only way to analyze choices you must make is by applying your values. Science and policy don't matter when deciding whether or not to have firearms and kids.

Unless you were deciding on quantifiable choices (for example as earning a living and number of work hours fishing v. earning a living and number of work hours franchising a Coke machine on Times Square) the power to make the right decision depends on your ability to envision what matters.

But high quality scientific research never comes down to a question of what matters, or a choice of opinions.

'Rigorous' science is not about policy or speculation. Or values.
The scientific proof only proves two things and always:
1. Hypothesis A is more probable than it is not probable according to data analysis.
2. Nothing else, no other hypothesis is possible besides Hypothesis A.

Research has to be designed to exclude bias and opinions.

But nonscientific research use values to drive the story.
 
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NursingTn

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Tldr: Business deaths and mass shooting have one thing in common: both have multiple possible causes that may need to be address. Mass shooting is a real problem with so many difficult causes to address; it cannot be solved by gun restriction alone.

Causes of business deaths: bad marketing strategies for customer acquisition, poor product-market fit, improper government regulations, violation of CENTS.

A business can fail for one or combination of variables as mentioned abovem

Causes of mass shootings in America: gun accessible to practically everyone; poor mental health secondary to primary causes such as genetics that predispose individuals to mood disorders or secondary causes such as low self-esteem/poor relationships; and other variables such as hateful beliefs, e.g. genocides, racism, etc.

Without guns, there cannot be no mass shooting. But guns are everywhere now; it will be difficult to get rid of all guns on the planet.

Poor mental health and/or variables such as hateful beliefs may turn people into murderers. It can be difficult to promote mental health in a society where mental illness is marginalized, looked down upon, and is not taken seriously.

Targeting hateful beliefs is a difficult task so long as people have a "us vs them" mentality, believing everyone is separate from one another and not a part of this big family called humanity.

Better gun regulations (e.g. everyone need to pass a mental health check from a psychiatrist, everyone need to be properly trained in and certified to use a gun, have people turn in illegal guns for a chance to obtain resources to better their lives instead of using guns to harm others) instead of outright banning them may be the best course of action due to their ubiquitous nature now.

Mental health is a sad problem in America. It requires a combination of medication and non-medication treatment for increase likelihood of successful treatments. The problem is, who can actually afford mental health care as is if they are mentally sick? Mental health costs need to be subsidized somehow, whether it becomes the next "big thing to focus on and have support from practically everybody".

Variables such as hateful beliefs suck. Humanity has been engaging in "us vs them" since the dawn of life on Earth, the development of practically all religions, and so on. If you solve this problem, then you're probably the next Jesus Christ or Buddha. Even then, it's questionable if you can actually solve this problem.
 

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blissfulparadise

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Someone who drives 9 hours to target a specific race, wears ear protection, and wrote a whole manifesto is not considered mentally ill in my book.

Yes, mental illness an issue but not as much of an issue in regards to mass shootings as people make it out to be.

Hatred is generally not a mental illness. Not according to the DSM anyway.

It can be delusional symptom of a psychotic disorder but it’s not an illness itself.

What needs to be addressed is our values as a country.

If we take away guns, the hatred will just find another way to express itself.

No amount of gun control and mental health talk can solve the deep rooted hatred some people have and act on.
 

Roli

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Once again, the real problem isn't guns, but mental illness.
....hmm, or allowing people with mental illness access to guns.

IMO, it's just not civilised to allow people to walk around cities with guns.
 

TonyStark

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Someone who drives 9 hours to target a specific race, wears ear protection, and wrote a whole manifesto is not considered mentally ill in my book.

Yes, mental illness an issue but not as much of an issue in regards to mass shootings as people make it out to be.

Hatred is generally not a mental illness. Not according to the DSM anyway.

It can be delusional symptom of a psychotic disorder but it’s not an illness itself.

What needs to be addressed is our values as a country.

If we take away guns, the hatred will just find another way to express itself.

No amount of gun control and mental health talk can solve the deep rooted hatred some people have and act on.
Beautiful! This is the response right here.
 

TonyStark

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The common thread amongst these shootings (and most shootings) is hatred.

We have to attack hatred at its core.

Also, stating facts about how you’re less likely to die from a mass shooting or shooting in general than being struck by lighting just makes you sound insensitive and like a dick.

This is clearly a phenomenon that needs to be addressed with the seriousness and gravity it commands.
 

Bertram

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My Google skills are pretty good, and I am not able to find any data to substantiate your claim. That said, your Google skills are likely much better than mine -- can you provide a link?

In the meantime, I was able to find this, put out by the DOJ:


I'm not taking sides on this argument...just trying to keep people honest and encourage them to provide support for their statements...
We need the scientific data, not just values. See #71.
 

MHP368

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seems to fall into the following categories :

1.) religious radical ideology person with easy access to guns

2.) political radical ideology with easy access to guns

3.) actually mentally ill with easy access to guns (aurora, tucson, sandy hook, navy yard...)

4.)disgruntled worker with easy access to guns

5.)actual lone wolf / no further information...with easy access to guns

I just can't for the life of me see what the common denominator is here or ferret out any factor that might contribute to why this only happens in the united states, such a mystery ;)

And I type that as a gun owner.

Honestly to be pragmatic, no way this would be reduced in occurrence for another decade even if you banned new gun sales right now today.

I imagine over the next 10 or 20 years as technology allows for more of a police state / panopticon situation to form you'll start seeing less.

Look at dayton, armed police on site (the old "good guy with a gun") and you still have 9 dead and 27 wounded , then you have jackalopes telling us to "keep it in perspective" and comparing the statistical odds of being shot up randomly to deaths from heart disease?

Then some harebrain will bring out the old "we just need to enforce existing gun laws" , existing gun laws are trash, im in arizona, private sale? no background check, just a nod nod wink wink that the guy you sold a hipoint to online isn't "a prohibited" individual, thankfully even a cheap gun like that still costs as much as a significant amount of drugs and alcohol. Open carry with no class? sure thing, concealed carry with no training? absolutely, welcome to the wild west, thankfully enough of my fellow arizonans are armed so that if a mass shooting happens only 9 will be killed and 27 wounded! (only 6 dead and 13 wounded if the shooter starts blasting at a high profile politician! [2011 tucson] ) , if you're not catching my sarcasm here its because I'm exactly one person so me being dead multiple times over even when armed individuals are about isn't exactly getting me thrilled.
 

adiakritos

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The decay of the society is inevitable. Get savvy to it. Protect yourself. Support your family, country, and mankind as best you can but can't really try and stop the a hurricane from occuring. These shootings are part of the decay IMO... the result of a perfect storm of elements.
 
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##########

MODERATOR NOTE:
These posts were extracted from the RANDOM CHAT thread. While this is a sensitive topic that has political overtones, I hope the forum can amicably discuss it in a civilized manner. If not, the thread will be closed.


###########


Almost 30 people dead in 2 more mass shootings...250 shootings this year? At what point do we realize that what's happening isn't normal. At what point do we stop justifying these events with bullshit.

The last one being in Texas...where a thread a couple months ago asked which place was safer Texas or Canada. Clearly it can happen anywhere in any state at any place. It doesn't matter. No place is safe at this point.

I can't even feel comfortable going to the mall, Walmart, movies, downtown, school, church or any other public place without having to worry some a**hole with a gun is going to shoot at my family. Is this really the way it's supposed to be? Smh.
Mental illness obviously and evil. Evil is too often forgotten. If guns were acting by themselves, everybody would be dead in this country.
 

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The common thread amongst these shootings (and most shootings) is hatred.
Yes, but isn't hatred itself a form of mental illness?

Hatred has many shades of black...
  1. A white dude who hates brown people is mentally ill.
  2. A brown dude who thinks 72 virgins awaits him after slashing a white dude's head off, is mentally ill.
  3. A Bernie Sanders supporter who shoots up a softball game because he "hates Republicans" is mentally ill.
  4. A teenager who shoots up a mall because he hates his life is mentally ill.
  5. A recluse who shoots a President because he wants the attention of a young actress, Jodi Foster, is mentally ill.
Mental illness takes shape in all forms of some type of extremism: racism, religious fundamentalism, anti-government, anti-consumer, anti-something ... and when it reaches its boiling point of rage for its particular "hatred" -- it lashes out in the easiest manner possible. In America it will ALWAYS be a gun.

Even with stricter gun control, I'm afraid, such atrocities will continue simply because the wide availability of guns cannot really be walked back.

Guns can stick around for years, if not decades... case in point, I own a fully functioning Mosin Nagant which is from freaking World War 1.

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I side note relevant to this discussion with a tin-foil hat...

The only "shooting" that doesn't seem to fit this mold of hatred is the Las Vegas casino shooting, was it hatred toward country folks at a country festival? Nothing about that event smells right, from the "Ellen interview" to the lack of casino surveillance footage, to the police investigation, to how the media dropped it quite soon thereafter...
 

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What you don't understand ?

When muslim arabs commit terrorism - its called terrorism, it isn't called mental illness.
When whites commit terrorism, some of you want to excuse it as a mental illness issue.

When blacks use drugs, they are degenerates "meth heads" and "meth babies" ... and the solution is to lock them up.

When whites use drugs, they are hard working Americans that are dealing with economic pressure and the solution is health care treatment - because its a health issue don't ya know.

I'm seeing a similar pattern with these mass shooting committed by a certain segment of the population - but instead of profiling everyone of them (including those that give tacit support to it) - because they do talk to each other online and in real life; we label them "lone wolves" and pretend people are mentally ill.

Even when they out right say "I'm doing it because I hate the N words and the god damn Mexicans". Like Dylan Roof (who wasn't charged with a hate crime) and the guy that shot up the Walmart, both of whom had a manifesto that stated why they did what they did.


Hope that helps clear up what I was trying to say.

I was trying to be polite, but - since you wanted to see if I'd blink - nah, I'm doubling down. I'm calling out the hypocrisy, white supremacy ideology, the cognitive dissonance and those that enable the violence by giving it tacit support or excusing it because of their "I don't wanna lose my gun" agenda.

Also, I don't think taking away guns would stop this BS. These "mentally ill" white supremacists would just rent a van and plough through people, or buy fertilizer and fuel and create a major b0.m.b. like Timothy Mcveigh.

They even tell you what their holly scriptures are - The Turner Diaries, Might Is Right, The Great Replacement.

But nahhhhhh - even with all that evidence showing their have an ideology and an affinity .... we must label them "mentally ill" by default, right?!

You guys are playing a very dangerous game. It will end up horribly for America.

Good luck to ya, lucky for me I'm not in that 3rd world of 1st world poop hole.

We clear now? Huuuh?

==================

The solution to this mess: Treat whites the way you'd treat "minorities".

If it were arabs or blacks, you'd pass laws to racially profile everyone that looked like them, everywhere they went in public places - stop and frisk, infiltrate their circles, lock everyone up that's friends with them or associated with them through RICO charges. Have the media portray them negatively, encourage people to report any suspected white supremacists extremists anonymously and get cash rewards when they catch one because of your help. Do the same and I bet your mass shooting problem carried out by white supremacists / white supremacists sympathizers would go away, or at the very least wouldn't be carried out as often as its currently occuring.
Oh wise one, the mainstream media already blames white people, cops and Trump for all the problems of the world.
You’re not saying anything new, only regurgitated vomit.
 

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Successful Steve

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This is also kinda my point, the gun industry is a self fulfilling industry; 1 person buys a gun and shoots someone with it now everyone in the neighbourhood wants one just to "protect" them selfs en so on till everyone has a gun.

If you turn it around noone has a gun, noone is threated and no one needs guns anymore.

Solution ban/restrict guns just like the rest of the western world
And then you become the knife murder capital of the world like London oh smart one

You must be from those Nordic countries where everyone is peaceful bc you sound like you live in a bubble. Guns are illegal in Mexico Honduras and Brazil the 3 most violent countries in the world. Drugs are illegal but everyone has access to them.
 

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You my friend have spoken absolutely agree with your post
Actually he hasn’t spoken anything. White men are held accountable for everything bad in the world. Everyone knows the white man has done a lot of evil things over the years. And every other culture is so peaceful and loving.
 

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Yes, but isn't hatred itself a form of mental illness?

Hatred has many shades of black...
  1. A white dude who hates brown people is mentally ill.
  2. A brown dude who thinks 72 virgins awaits him after slashing a white dude's head off, is mentally ill.
  3. A Bernie Sanders supporter who shoots up a softball game because he "hates Republicans" is mentally ill.
  4. A teenager who shoots up a mall because he hates his life is mentally ill.
  5. A recluse who shoots a President because he wants the attention of a young actress, Jodi Foster, is mentally ill.
Mental illness takes shape in all forms of some type of extremism: racism, religious fundamentalism, anti-government, anti-consumer, anti-something ... and when it reaches its boiling point of rage for its particular "hatred" -- it lashes out in the easiest manner possible. In America it will ALWAYS be a gun.

Even with stricter gun control, I'm afraid, such atrocities will continue simply because the wide availability of guns cannot really be walked back.

Guns can stick around for years, if not decades... case in point, I own a fully functioning Mosin Nagant which is from freaking World War 1.

.
.
.
.
.

I side note relevant to this discussion with a tin-foil hat...

The only "shooting" that doesn't seem to fit this mold of hatred is the Las Vegas casino shooting, was it hatred toward country folks at a country festival? Nothing about that event smells right, from the "Ellen interview" to the lack of casino surveillance footage, to the police investigation, to how the media dropped it quite soon thereafter...
Mental illness is a funny thing. It's really what they decide to label in the diagnostic manuals. Attention issues (ADHD) may qualify enough to a mental illness, but laziness doesn't. Being an admiration seeker (Narcissism) might qualify as a mental illness, but explosive anger might not. But perhaps in 200 years laziness and explosive anger may qualify as a mental illness, the same way depression does.

I think in the future we'll have a more comprehensive model but I think for now the danger of just writing something off as "oh they're just an idiot" or "oh they're just an a**hole" is that you do nothing to figure out the problem. If someone is just an "idiot" or "crazy" it absolves us of the responsibility of figuring it out then maybe finding solutions to it.

What if we can figure out what all these mass shooters have in common and trying to fix that problem rather than just writing them off as 'nut jobs' who are not understandable. For instance if we could figure out the root cause of say, Pedophelia, then we can start to come up with solutions. When you just write people off as "pieces of shit" then you can't figure out the why, and you can't innovate solutions for it. I'm not taking a position on whether mass shooters or [insert problem here] are or aren't 'pieces of shit' I'm just saying from a utilitarian perspective of someone who would like to see Mass Shootings and Pedophilia come to an end.. understanding the reasons why is often the best way to stop it.
 

JScott

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Yes, but isn't hatred itself a form of mental illness?
No. Mental illness doesn't cause people to hate.

Mental illness simply drives people who already hate to act out on that hatred.

The problem is the indoctrination that led to that hatred.

For Muslim terrorists, we have no issue saying that religion was that indoctrination.

For inner city "black-on-black" criminals, we have no issue saying that culture was that indoctrination.

But, when it comes to white men, we seem to want to skip the genesis of that indoctrination and jump right to the mental illness that led them to act on that hatred. Lots of mentally ill people don't write manifestos and go on killing sprees.

Sure, there are some white men who don't appear to be driven by a specific agenda. But, oftentimes, there is an agenda...and with it, a source of the indoctrination that drove that agenda.

White men who shoot up abortion facilities have often been indoctrinated by religion.

White men who murder immigrants have often been indoctrinated by anti-immigrant messages they are fed.

White mean who murder minorities have often been indoctrinated by anti-minority messages they are fed.

White men who ship mail bombs to conservative or liberal politicians have often been indoctrinated by the political extremism they get from the media, their families and their friends.

Maybe video games desensitize us to violence. Maybe bad parenting predisposes us to bad behavior. Perhaps mental illness and drugs lowers the inhibitions that allow for these actions.

But, when the targets of these actions are people we hate, the question becomes: What was the indoctrination that led to that hate in the first place?

Mental illness isn't to blame for most of these attacks. It's the hate that these mentally ill people are being fed by the media, by religion, by politicians, and by those around them. If we fix the hate, the mental illness won't go away, but we'll start to see a lot fewer mentally ill people going on killing sprees.
 

G-Man

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No. Mental illness doesn't cause people to hate.

Mental illness simply drives people who already hate to act out on that hatred.

The problem is the indoctrination that led to that hatred.

For Muslim terrorists, we have no issue saying that religion was that indoctrination.

For inner city "black-on-black" criminals, we have no issue saying that culture was that indoctrination.

But, when it comes to white men, we seem to want to skip the genesis of that indoctrination and jump right to the mental illness that led them to act on that hatred. Lots of mentally ill people don't write manifestos and go on killing sprees.

Sure, there are some white men who don't appear to be driven by a specific agenda. But, oftentimes, there is an agenda...and with it, a source of the indoctrination that drove that agenda.

White men who shoot up abortion facilities have often been indoctrinated by religion.

White men who murder immigrants have often been indoctrinated by anti-immigrant messages they are fed.

White mean who murder minorities have often been indoctrinated by anti-minority messages they are fed.

White men who ship mail bombs to conservative or liberal politicians have often been indoctrinated by the political extremism they get from the media, their families and their friends.

Maybe video games desensitize us to violence. Maybe bad parenting predisposes us to bad behavior. Perhaps mental illness and drugs lowers the inhibitions that allow for these actions.

But, when the targets of these actions are people we hate, the question becomes: What was the indoctrination that led to that hate in the first place?

Mental illness isn't to blame for most of these attacks. It's the hate that these mentally ill people are being fed by the media, by religion, by politicians, and by those around them. If we fix the hate, the mental illness won't go away, but we'll start to see a lot fewer mentally ill people going on killing sprees.
It's almost like we're geared to dismiss the cognitive dissonance that arises when someone that shares some beliefs with us, or comes from our same socio-cultural background, does some evil shit. :rofl:
 

MJ DeMarco

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No. Mental illness doesn't cause people to hate.
Disagree, and you say as much below.

It's the hate that these mentally ill people are being fed by the media, by religion, by politicians, and by those around them.
This statement contradicts your first. Mental illness can be fed hatred, which can lash out in extreme outcomes.

If you're not mentally ill to begin with, you won't be affected by hateful messages to the point of a murderous rampage. You might agree with the hateful messages, even condone them ... but your sanity prevails, knowing that murder is morally wrong, even against those who don't share your POV.

If someone has a dislike for a particular ideology, they most likely won't do anything about it, but lash out on message boards or join some underground group. The mentally ill will go beyond it.

It just so happens that you can expect the mentally ill to SEEK out such messages (and hatred) that reflects their ideology ... doesn't matter if that person is a religious fanatic, a white supremacist, or an anti-government goon.

For the SEED OF HATRED to take root and grow, there has to be FERTILE SOIL.

That fertile soil is mental illness.

Without the soil, hatred can only take form as a stupid comment on some message board.

With the soil, the hatred heads to the desert and sharpens his knife for the latest Christian beheading.

With the soil, the hatred heads to the gun range, starts practicing, and writes out his manifesto.

To me, the labels are irrelevant. Domestic terrorism, religous terrorism, work place violence, it's all sick as F*ck.

Such hatred and outrage needs a foundation and that foundation is mental illness. Anyone who can murder someone simply because they are of a different religion, skin color, political party, promoted co-worker, etc. is SICK AS F*ck. Sick as F*ck = mentally F*cked.
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That's my position and my opinion. No one has to agree or disagree.
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With that said, this thread is being locked as it is now 4 pages and 100+ posts - clearly everyone who wanted to state their opinion has done so. The thread lasted A LOT LONGER than I thought it would, so that is encouraging.

With exception to a few ridiculous comments of the expected type straight from the echo chambers of politics, this conversation was enlightening and rather civil. For those that provide CHARTS, GRAPHS, and SOURCES, to your opinion, thank you as well.

And a big thanks to everyone who commented rationally with their OWN thoughts, not indoctrination straight out of Breitbart (right) or Mother Jones (left).
 
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