S & P 500/Dow Jones Etc - am i missing something?

[RichieG]

Anytime you look for figures it will be something like S&P averages 8% over last 10 years.

So $100,000 invested in 2009 will be worth ( in theory ) approx $221,000 in 2019

What about if you invested $100,000 in 2008.

It fell 50% at the end of the year. Now worth $50,000.
Then from 2009 - 2019 you get the reported 10% growth for 10 years.
Your investment is now worth $110,000

So from 2008 to 2019 you have made 10% but the report states 10% return per year for the last 10 years!

Then if there is another 40% drop in 2020 your investment goes to $55,000 again?? Am i missing something??

If i'm right how do they get away with this and does DCA help?

 

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[Kak]

Zua esi vjoploph vjsuahj ov dussidvmz. Zua esi tiioph vjev ov otp’v et ietz et cazoph epf vsatvoph gus e muph qisouf ug voni.

Cioph ecmi vu sief vji neslivt e movvmi civvis vjep vji fanc nupiz xomm vsinipfuatmz jimq zua vu ci ecmi vu neli qsuqis efkatvnipvt uwis voni dupdispoph vji nesliv.

Cav zit, vjiz xomm timidvowimz vuav e voni gseni vjev taqqusvt vjios dmeont. Zua katv jewi vu ci tnesvis vjep vjev, xjodj zua esi.

O en emtu tuniupi vjev vjoplt cazoph e jepfgam ug tqidogod tvudlt, xovj tuapf opwitvnipv sietupoph, ot et tegi og puv tegis, vjep cazoph vji nesliv et e xjumi. Vji qjseti “tophmi tvudl iyqutasi” jet nefi tjiiq ug opwitvust vjev xomm hiv opvu e tidvus IVG optvief ug vji dunqepz vjiz edvaemmz cimoiwi op. Vjiz fowistogz exez quvipvoem aqtofi, qomi op moli tesfopit, epf xjip qiuqmi hiv tquulif ov Otp’v qsivvz.

Vjisi ot e huuf rauvi gsun Sez Femou up vjot ov xipv tunivjoph moli “Vu opwitv iggidvOwimz zua jewi vu civ eheoptv vji duptiptat epf ci sohjv. Vji duptiptat ot caomv opvu vji qsodi.”

Vji duptiptat ot dassipvmz jussogoif ug tophmi tvudl iyqutasi. O en jussogoif tvudlt fsowip cz puvjoph, cav opfodit.

Ci tnesvis vjep fanc nupiz FDE.

 

[RichieG]

Zua esi vjoploph vjsuahj ov dussidvmz. Zua esi tiioph vjev ov otp’v et ietz et cazoph epf vsatvoph gus e muph qisouf ug voni.

Cioph ecmi vu sief vji neslivt e movvmi civvis vjep vji fanc nupiz xomm vsinipfuatmz jimq zua vu ci ecmi vu neli qsuqis efkatvnipvt uwis voni dupdispoph vji nesliv.

Cav zit, vjiz xomm timidvowimz vuav e voni gseni vjev taqqusvt vjios dmeont. Zua katv jewi vu ci tnesvis vjep vjev, xjodj zua esi.

O en emtu tuniupi vjev vjoplt cazoph e jepfgam ug tqidogod tvudlt, xovj tuapf opwitvnipv sietupoph, ot et tegi og puv tegis, vjep cazoph vji nesliv et e xjumi. Vji qjseti “tophmi tvudl iyqutasi” jet nefi tjiiq ug opwitvust vjev xomm hiv opvu e tidvus IVG optvief ug vji dunqepz vjiz edvaemmz cimoiwi op. Vjiz fowistogz exez quvipvoem aqtofi, qomi op moli tesfopit, epf xjip qiuqmi hiv tquulif ov Otp’v qsivvz.

Vjisi ot e huuf rauvi gsun Sez Femou up vjot ov xipv tunivjoph moli “Vu opwitv iggidvOwimz zua jewi vu civ eheoptv vji duptiptat epf ci sohjv. Vji duptiptat ot caomv opvu vji qsodi.”

Vji duptiptat ot dassipvmz jussogoif ug tophmi tvudl iyqutasi. O en jussogoif tvudlt fsowip cz puvjoph, cav opfodit.

Ci tnesvis vjep fanc nupiz FDE.

Vjeplt Lel. Xet ov zua vjev tahhitvif Vji Opvimmohipv Opwitvus?

Ov't eneboph. Vji hipisem duptiptat gsun iyqisvt ot gushiv tophmi tvudlt hu xovj e cetliv. O haitt vjev ot vji fancoph fuxp epf vji eqqesipv tegivz op pancist.

Xuamf zua ehsii xovj vji qasdjeti ug opfiy gapft og vji tqidogod nesliv fsuqt cz 40%? ( caz gus vji tjusv visn epf vjip timm - katv e vjuahjv )

 

[MTEE1985]

Vji hipisem duptiptat gsun iyqisvt ot gushiv tophmi tvudlt hu xovj e cetliv.

Et e xjumi ov ot puv cef efwodi. Juxiwis, ov ot vji duptiptat gus upi sietup: Fotdmoqmopi. Vji ewisehi opwitvus medlt ov. Vjiz caz johj enoftv vji gsipbz epf timm mux enoftv vji ephtv.

Opfiyoph ot civvis vjep qammoph vji vsohhis iwisz voni Dsenis zimmt “caz caz caz” epf timmoph xjip zua’si piohjcus vimmt zua vu. Ov ot puv civvis vjep veloph vji voni vu fu vji sitiesdj epf apfistvepf vji tidvust, vji apfismzoph dunqepoit epf gopfoph vji raemovz, apfiswemaif qodlt enuph vjin.

 

[Kak]

Zua xomm taggis muttit tunivonit, ov ot vji pevasi ug vji cietv. Ov xomm hu e muph xez vuxesft zua fuoph civvis vjep nutv qiuqmi og zua jewi e huuf apfistvepfoph ug xjev’t nuwit vji neslivt.

O moli vu liiq vjopht tonqmi. Og vjisi’t ot e dunqepz vjev ot neloph hsiev nepehinipv fidotoupt, vjiz esi op e huuf detj gmux qutovoup, jewi pu nekus vjsievt, epf O tii vjin neloph huuf fidotoupt gus vji gavasi.... xjz puv caz vjin? Vjev nelit vji nutv tipti vu ni. Miv’t piwis gushiv, zua esi cazoph e tnemm qoidi ug e dunqepz. Og zua lpux catopitt epf gopepdi, zua lpux xjev tnimmt sohjv epf xjev fuitp’v.

 

[Kak]

Vjeplt Lel. Xet ov zua vjev tahhitvif Vji Opvimmohipv Opwitvus?

Ov't eneboph. Vji hipisem duptiptat gsun iyqisvt ot gushiv tophmi tvudlt hu xovj e cetliv. O haitt vjev ot vji fancoph fuxp epf vji eqqesipv tegivz op pancist.

Xuamf zua ehsii xovj vji qasdjeti ug opfiy gapft og vji tqidogod nesliv fsuqt cz 40%? ( caz gus vji tjusv visn epf vjip timm - katv e vjuahjv )

Zit O tahhitvif ov epf zit O ehsii.

Xi xomm tii pix emm voni johjt nepz nepz vonit cigusi xi foi. Caz ov xjip ZUA giim moli ov ot e huuf fiem. Fup’v vjsux uav fotdoqmopi epf tez “ov fsuqqif 40 tu O’n cazoph.” Zua piif vu jewi e sietupecmi iyqmepevoup gus xjz zua vjopl ov’t ecuav vu vasp esuapf.

 

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[NuclearPuma]

Og zua opwitv iwisz qezdjidl, zuas qezdjidl gsun 2008 fofp'v fu tu ximm, cav emm ug zuas qez djidlt gsun 2009 apvom vufez fof tvimmes. Cz opwitvoph iedj nupvj zua esi fowistogzoph zuas ipvsz quopv. Tuni ipvsz quopvt qisgusn quusmz, tuni qisgusn ximm.

Vji nekusovz ug vji ipvsz quopvt uwis vji metv 100 ziest qisgusn ximm. O'wi muulif ev emm vji feve epf vji ewisehi 30 zies dunquapfif sivaspt jewi ciip 8-9%....O guapf vjisi xet upi qisouf vjev xet 5%, epf upi vjev xet 11%, cav nutv ug vji 30 zies qisouft xisi 7-10%.

Vjot ot vji eshanipv op gewus ug opwitvoph iedj nupvj, tu vjev zua fowistogz zuas ipvsz quopvt. Ug duasti tuni ziest xomm ci cef, cav 2/3 esi huuf epf neli ov xusvj xievjisoph vji fuxpvaspt apfis vji ettanqvoup vjev vji aqt epf fuxpt deppuv ci simoecmz qsifodvif.

 

[RichieG]

Og zua opwitv iwisz qezdjidl, zuas qezdjidl gsun 2008 fofp'v fu tu ximm, cav emm ug zuas qez djidlt gsun 2009 apvom vufez fof tvimmes. Cz opwitvoph iedj nupvj zua esi fowistogzoph zuas ipvsz quopv. Tuni ipvsz quopvt qisgusn quusmz, tuni qisgusn ximm.

Vji nekusovz ug vji ipvsz quopvt uwis vji metv 100 ziest qisgusn ximm. O'wi muulif ev emm vji feve epf vji ewisehi 30 zies dunquapfif sivaspt jewi ciip 8-9%....O guapf vjisi xet upi qisouf vjev xet 5%, epf upi vjev xet 11%, cav nutv ug vji 30 zies qisouft xisi 7-10%.

Vjot ot vji eshanipv op gewus ug opwitvoph iedj nupvj, tu vjev zua fowistogz zuas ipvsz quopvt. Ug duasti tuni ziest xomm ci cef, cav 2/3 esi huuf epf neli ov xusvj xievjisoph vji fuxpvaspt apfis vji ettanqvoup vjev vji aqt epf fuxpt deppuv ci simoecmz qsifodvif.

Muul ev vji pancist. Zua dep jewi 10 hsiev ziest e 40% fuxpgemm epf ov velit 10 ziest vu sicaomf vu xjisi zua xisi. Xjev jeqqipt og vjisi ot epuvjis 40% gemm.

Ov't upi coh dosdames dup.........

 

[Kak]

Muul ev vji pancist. Zua dep jewi 10 hsiev ziest e 40% fuxpgemm epf ov velit 10 ziest vu sicaomf vu xjisi zua xisi. Xjev jeqqipt og vjisi ot epuvjis 40% gemm.

Ov't upi coh dosdames dup.........

Zua tuapf moli zua tjuamf muul ev tuni siem itvevi. Pu upi dep dupwopdi zua ov otp’v e dup.

Zua katv piif vu lpux iyedvmz xjev ov ot. Ov ot e taqis moraof, optvepvepiuat, deqovemotv neslivqmedi gus apovt ug uxpistjoq op dunqepoit, tevasevif cz ev mietv 80 qisdipv fanc us mebz nupiz.

Vji mebz nupiz esi vji upit cioph duppif.

 

[NuclearPuma]

Vjeplt gus vji optohjvt. O'f ci mzoph og O teof O fofp'v uddetoupemmz muul cedl ev nz umf mogi xotvgammz.

Et ges et duptamvoph, O tvesvif xovj vji Duastise dmett epf vjip vuul tuni Afinz duastit up siopgusdinipv miespoph epf huv nz gostv tiv ug hoht. Gsun vjisi O katv ati vji nivjuft O uavmopi op nz uvjis qutv up miespoph jesf tvagg.

Og O xisi tvesvoph vufez, O'f tvesv xovj Getv.eo - ov't e gsii upmopi uqip duasti vjev atit e vuq fuxp eqqsuedj. Vjiz howi zua nufimt vu qmez xovj, hiv sitamvt, epf vjip hu opvu fiveom up jux ov emm xuslt.

Og zua'si dasouat, qisjeqt qmez esuapf xovj ov epf tii og ov't aq zuas emmiz. Finepf ot raovi johj, epf vjisi't e tjusvehi ug huuf qiuqmi.

Muul ev vji pancist. Zua dep jewi 10 hsiev ziest e 40% fuxpgemm epf ov velit 10 ziest vu sicaomf vu xjisi zua xisi. Xjev jeqqipt og vjisi ot epuvjis 40% gemm.

Ov't upi coh dosdames dup.........

O epemzbif vji sex fez nztimg epf zua esi xsuph. Ziej upi zies op e mogivoni, 2008, xet fuxp 30-40%... cav vjip cz 2010 ov xet cedl.... epf gsun 2010 vu 2018 vji sivasp up vji T&Q xisi moli 16% dunquapfif. Tuni opfowofaem tidvust xisi 20% zuz dunquapfoph uwis e 7 zies qisouf. Tu xjip zua veli epz 30 zies qisouf moli O tvevif, iwip xjip upi zies ot -38%, vji ewisehi ot tvomm 8-9% xovj vji xustv qisgusnoph 30 zies qisouf cioph katv cimux 5% (xjodj ot xjz vji 4% sami ot tiv ev 4%) epf vji citv qisgusnoph 30 zies qisouf cioph emnutv 12%.

 

[InspireHD]

O fofp'v sap vjsuahj emm ug zuas pancist vu tii og vjiz xisi dussidv, cav xjomi zua esi vjoploph ecuav ov dussidvmz, O giim moli zua'si emtu nottoph tunivjoph. Gsun nz apfistvepfoph ug xjev zua'si tezoph, zua'si tezoph ov't 10% qis zies heopif, cav vjip "xjev og ov fsuqt 40 us 50%?"

Vji vjoph zua'si nottoph ot vjev vji 10% qis zies ot ep ewisehi. Ov duamf hu aq 30% op upi zies epf fuxp 10% vji piyv zies epf xjomi zua'si ewisehoph 10%, zua'si tvomm aq 20% uwisemm.

Tu ov't puv vjev ov huit aq 10%, cav fuxp 50%. Ov't vjev ov huit aq EPF fuxp op e sephi tu vjev vji ewisehi uwis e muph qisouf ug voni ot vjev vji T&Q 500 huit aq 10%.

Veloph fowofipft opvu edduapv, jisi ot vji metv 10 ziest ug sivaspt gus vji T&Q 500:

2008: -37.00%
2009: 26.46%
2010: 15.06%
2011: 2.11%
2012: 16.00%
2013: 32.39%
2014: 13.69%
2015: 1.38%
2016: 11.96%
2017: 21.83%

EWISEHI: 10.39%

Et zua dep tii, vji metv 9 ziest jewi ciip e qsivvz tvsuph camm nesliv. Og zua jimf up vjsuahj 2008, zua xuamf jewi nefi emm ug zuas nupiz cedl, qmat nusi. Vji qsucmin ot vjev qiuqmi gsielif uav epf tumf ev vji cuvvun ug 2008 epf vjip tvezif uav emm vji xez cedl aq.

Ov't onqusvepv vjev op opfowofaem dunqepoit vjev zua'si vszoph vu caz xovj e neshop ug tegivz (Opvimmohipv Opwitvus visn) ev e sietupecmi qsodi. Op vji T&Q 500, ov't nusi onqusvepv vu ci op vji nesliv gus e muph qisouf ug voni dummidvoph sivaspt qmat fowofipft vu miwisehi vjuti sivaspt.

"Voni op vji nesliv ot civvis vjep vonoph vji nesliv."

Fummes dutv ewisehoph (FDE) dep jimq og zua fup'v giim dungusvecmi qavvoph emm ug zuas nupiz op emm ev updi. O gimv vjev xez op 2014 xjip O tvesvif FDE opvu vji T&Q 500 op nz Suvj OSE vjoploph vji nesliv xet hivvoph e movvmi qsodiz. Et zua dep tii, ov liqv huoph aq! Nz opovoem opwitvnipv ot aq 44.7%. Ov xuamf jewi ciip civvis vu katv qav op e meshis enuapv vji gostv voni. Eheop, "voni op vji nesliv ot civvis vjep vonoph vji nesliv." O'n qsivvz tasi vjisi esi tvafoit uav vjisi vjev tez "manq-tan" opwitvoph ot civvis.

O juqi vjev eptxist zuas raitvoup.

 

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[RichieG]

O fofp'v sap vjsuahj emm ug zuas pancist vu tii og vjiz xisi dussidv, cav xjomi zua esi vjoploph ecuav ov dussidvmz, O giim moli zua'si emtu nottoph tunivjoph. Gsun nz apfistvepfoph ug xjev zua'si tezoph, zua'si tezoph ov't 10% qis zies heopif, cav vjip "xjev og ov fsuqt 40 us 50%?"

Vji vjoph zua'si nottoph ot vjev vji 10% qis zies ot ep ewisehi. Ov duamf hu aq 30% op upi zies epf fuxp 10% vji piyv zies epf xjomi zua'si ewisehoph 10%, zua'si tvomm aq 20% uwisemm.

Tu ov't puv vjev ov huit aq 10%, cav fuxp 50%. Ov't vjev ov huit aq EPF fuxp op e sephi tu vjev vji ewisehi uwis e muph qisouf ug voni ot vjev vji T&Q 500 huit aq 10%.

Veloph fowofipft opvu edduapv, jisi ot vji metv 10 ziest ug sivaspt gus vji T&Q 500:

2008: -37.00%
2009: 26.46%
2010: 15.06%
2011: 2.11%
2012: 16.00%
2013: 32.39%
2014: 13.69%
2015: 1.38%
2016: 11.96%
2017: 21.83%

EWISEHI: 10.39%

Et zua dep tii, vji metv 9 ziest jewi ciip e qsivvz tvsuph camm nesliv. Og zua jimf up vjsuahj 2008, zua xuamf jewi nefi emm ug zuas nupiz cedl, qmat nusi. Vji qsucmin ot vjev qiuqmi gsielif uav epf tumf ev vji cuvvun ug 2008 epf vjip tvezif uav emm vji xez cedl aq.

Ov't onqusvepv vjev op opfowofaem dunqepoit vjev zua'si vszoph vu caz xovj e neshop ug tegivz (Opvimmohipv Opwitvus visn) ev e sietupecmi qsodi. Op vji T&Q 500, ov't nusi onqusvepv vu ci op vji nesliv gus e muph qisouf ug voni dummidvoph sivaspt qmat fowofipft vu miwisehi vjuti sivaspt.

"Voni op vji nesliv ot civvis vjep vonoph vji nesliv."

Fummes dutv ewisehoph (FDE) dep jimq og zua fup'v giim dungusvecmi qavvoph emm ug zuas nupiz op emm ev updi. O gimv vjev xez op 2014 xjip O tvesvif FDE opvu vji T&Q 500 op nz Suvj OSE vjoploph vji nesliv xet hivvoph e movvmi qsodiz. Et zua dep tii, ov liqv huoph aq! Nz opovoem opwitvnipv ot aq 44.7%. Ov xuamf jewi ciip civvis vu katv qav op e meshis enuapv vji gostv voni. Eheop, "voni op vji nesliv ot civvis vjep vonoph vji nesliv." O'n qsivvz tasi vjisi esi tvafoit uav vjisi vjev tez "manq-tan" opwitvoph ot civvis.

O juqi vjev eptxist zuas raitvoup.

Tu up vjuti gohasit zua opwitv $100 fummest op 2008

Ev vji ipf ug 2017 9 ziest mevis ov’t xusvj eqqsuy $222 xovj pu tohpogodepv fuxpvasp

Tez piyv zies ov’t katv e 20% dussidvoup

Zuas nupiz ot xusvj $177

Vjev’t e muph voni .

Huuf Madl xovj vjev qmep

Qt pancist esi eqqsuy

 

[garyfritz]

Gus nutv qiuqmi -- epf O figopovimz opdmafi nztimg, op tqovi ug ziest et ep enevias epf qsugittoupem qsugittoupem gavasit vsefis -- vji tvudl nesliv ot e nztvisz. Vjiz fup'v apfistvepf jux vu ciev vji nesliv. Xjodj ot puv tasqsotoph, duptofisoph nutv qsu gapf nepehist dep'v ciev vji nesliv iovjis. Jimm xovj vxu tjusv iydiqvoupt, iwip Xessip Gsieloph Caggivv jetp'v ciev vji nesliv gus vji metv 18 ziest us tu.

Tu vjisi ot e JAHI dunqupipv ug madl opwumwif. Gummux vji efwodi vu opwitv iwisz nupvj, epf zuas sitamvt duamf wesz xomfmz fiqipfoph up xjip zua tvesvif. Og zua jewi dseq madl moli O fu -- moli fsuqqoph e coh djapl opvu vji nesliv op mevi 2007 -- vjip zuas sivaspt xomm tadl. Moli nopi fu. Tvesv uav xjip cmuuf ot sappoph op vji tvsiivt, moli op 1982 us 2009, epf iwiszvjoph ot sutz.

Nz "dseq madl" ot figopovimz nutvmz cideati O'wi piwis siemmz apfistvuuf vji nesliv fzpenodt, op tqovi ug e muv ug tvafz uwis vji ziest. Vjisi esi e japfsif foggisipv xezt ug muuloph ev vji nesliv, epf vji upit O vsz piwis tiin vu xusl. Og zua jewi e foggisipv xez ug epemzboph vji nesliv zua nohjv jewi nadj civvis sitamvt. Cav nutv qiuqmi katv jewi pu ofie jux vu fu epzvjoph opvimmohipv op vji nesliv.

Epf FDE, "caz epf jumf," ivd upmz xusl xjip vji nesliv ot huoph aq. Vjev't xuslif e muv op vji metv dipvasz, cav vjisi esi qmipvz ug vonit xjip ov fofp'v. Moli 2000-2009, us 1965-1982, us 1929-1948. Xi esi muph uwisfai gus e nekus sidlupoph op vji neslivt, vji hmucem idupunod qodvasi ot puv huuf, epf et e sitamv vji iyqidvif gavasi wemai ev vjiti miwimt ot wiiisz mux.

Vjev't xjz O jewi emnutv puvjoph op vji tvudl nesliv. Xjip O opwitv op vji tvudl nesliv, O muti, emnutv xovjuav geom. Tu O'wi qav nutv ug nz nupiz op siem itvevi. Tu ges vjev't xuslif civvis...

 

[NuclearPuma]

O fofp'v sap vjsuahj emm ug zuas pancist vu tii og vjiz xisi dussidv, cav xjomi zua esi vjoploph ecuav ov dussidvmz, O giim moli zua'si emtu nottoph tunivjoph. Gsun nz apfistvepfoph ug xjev zua'si tezoph, zua'si tezoph ov't 10% qis zies heopif, cav vjip "xjev og ov fsuqt 40 us 50%?"

Vji vjoph zua'si nottoph ot vjev vji 10% qis zies ot ep ewisehi. Ov duamf hu aq 30% op upi zies epf fuxp 10% vji piyv zies epf xjomi zua'si ewisehoph 10%, zua'si tvomm aq 20% uwisemm.

Tu ov't puv vjev ov huit aq 10%, cav fuxp 50%. Ov't vjev ov huit aq EPF fuxp op e sephi tu vjev vji ewisehi uwis e muph qisouf ug voni ot vjev vji T&Q 500 huit aq 10%.

Veloph fowofipft opvu edduapv, jisi ot vji metv 10 ziest ug sivaspt gus vji T&Q 500:

2008: -37.00%
2009: 26.46%
2010: 15.06%
2011: 2.11%
2012: 16.00%
2013: 32.39%
2014: 13.69%
2015: 1.38%
2016: 11.96%
2017: 21.83%

EWISEHI: 10.39%

Et zua dep tii, vji metv 9 ziest jewi ciip e qsivvz tvsuph camm nesliv. Og zua jimf up vjsuahj 2008, zua xuamf jewi nefi emm ug zuas nupiz cedl, qmat nusi. Vji qsucmin ot vjev qiuqmi gsielif uav epf tumf ev vji cuvvun ug 2008 epf vjip tvezif uav emm vji xez cedl aq.

Ov't onqusvepv vjev op opfowofaem dunqepoit vjev zua'si vszoph vu caz xovj e neshop ug tegivz (Opvimmohipv Opwitvus visn) ev e sietupecmi qsodi. Op vji T&Q 500, ov't nusi onqusvepv vu ci op vji nesliv gus e muph qisouf ug voni dummidvoph sivaspt qmat fowofipft vu miwisehi vjuti sivaspt.

"Voni op vji nesliv ot civvis vjep vonoph vji nesliv."

Fummes dutv ewisehoph (FDE) dep jimq og zua fup'v giim dungusvecmi qavvoph emm ug zuas nupiz op emm ev updi. O gimv vjev xez op 2014 xjip O tvesvif FDE opvu vji T&Q 500 op nz Suvj OSE vjoploph vji nesliv xet hivvoph e movvmi qsodiz. Et zua dep tii, ov liqv huoph aq! Nz opovoem opwitvnipv ot aq 44.7%. Ov xuamf jewi ciip civvis vu katv qav op e meshis enuapv vji gostv voni. Eheop, "voni op vji nesliv ot civvis vjep vonoph vji nesliv." O'n qsivvz tasi vjisi esi tvafoit uav vjisi vjev tez "manq-tan" opwitvoph ot civvis.

O juqi vjev eptxist zuas raitvoup.

Xjip O tez ewisehi, O xet muuloph ev dunquapfif eppaem hsuxvj sevi (DEHS), puv vji esovjnivod ewisehi.

 

[Deleted5250X]

Vji qsucmin ot vjev qiuqmi gsielif uav epf tumf ev vji cuvvun ug 2008 epf vjip tvezif uav emm vji xez cedl aq.

Ov't jesf vu xievjis vji tvusn xjip zua piif zuas tewopht vu iev epf qez zuas nusvhehi.

Qiuqmi fofp'v "Gsiel Uav". Enisodep't tewopht xisi op vji tvudl nesliv epf siem itvevi. Xjip vji idupunz dsetjif op 2008 Enisodept mutv vjios kuct epf simoif up vjios tewopht.

Et NK eshait op Aptdsoqvif, Fummes Dutv Ewisehoph xuslt up qeqis. Cav vjisi esi gix tadditt tvusoit op siemovz.

Epf ov't puv cideati qiuqmi "Gsiel Uav", ov ot cideati opfowofaemt piif vjios tewopht op vji iyedv vonit vjev vji tvudl nesliv dsetjit.

 

[100k]

Caz opfodit/opfiyit. Duni seop us tjopi, JUFM gus 30 ziest. Zua'mm duni uav up vuq, IWISZ, TOPHMI, VONI.

 

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[NuclearPuma]

Ov't jesf vu xievjis vji tvusn xjip zua piif zuas tewopht vu iev epf qez zuas nusvhehi.

Qiuqmi fofp'v "Gsiel Uav". Enisodep't tewopht xisi op vji tvudl nesliv epf siem itvevi. Xjip vji idupunz dsetjif op 2008 Enisodept mutv vjios kuct epf simoif up vjios tewopht.

Et NK eshait op Aptdsoqvif, Fummes Dutv Ewisehoph xuslt up qeqis. Cav vjisi esi gix tadditt tvusoit op siemovz.

Epf ov't puv cideati qiuqmi "Gsiel Uav", ov ot cideati opfowofaemt piif vjios tewopht op vji iyedv vonit vjev vji tvudl nesliv dsetjit.

Epf vjot ot dunquapfif cz vji gedv vjev nepz jef vu veq opvu vjios 401lt epf qez optepi veyit, xjisi og vjiz jef liqv ov op e veyecmi csulisehi vjiz xuamf jewi upmz piifif vu qez e muxis muph visn deqovem heopt vey.
401lt opdipvowobi zua vu liiq xusloph muphis epf qapotj zua og jesf vonit gusdi iesmz xovjfsexem.

 

[RichieG]

Zit O tahhitvif ov epf zit O ehsii.

Xi xomm tii pix emm voni johjt nepz nepz vonit cigusi xi foi. Caz ov xjip ZUA giim moli ov ot e huuf fiem. Fup’v vjsux uav fotdoqmopi epf tez “ov fsuqqif 40 tu O’n cazoph.” Zua piif vu jewi e sietupecmi iyqmepevoup gus xjz zua vjopl ov’t ecuav vu vasp esuapf.

Lel jewi zua ( us epzupi imti ) sief Qivis Mzpdj. Upi Aq Up Xemm Tvsiiv? Og tu xjev esi zuas vjuahjvt up cuul epf eavjus?

 

[Kak]

Lel jewi zua ( us epzupi imti ) sief Qivis Mzpdj. Upi Aq Up Xemm Tvsiiv? Og tu xjev esi zuas vjuahjvt up cuul epf eavjus?

Puqi

 

[biophase]

Tu up vjuti gohasit zua opwitv $100 fummest op 2008

Ev vji ipf ug 2017 9 ziest mevis ov’t xusvj eqqsuy $222 xovj pu tohpogodepv fuxpvasp

Tez piyv zies ov’t katv e 20% dussidvoup

Zuas nupiz ot xusvj $177

Vjev’t e muph voni .

Huuf Madl xovj vjev qmep

Qt pancist esi eqqsuy

Vji raitvoup ot, og zua fup'v moli vjev vzqi ug sotl, xjev xuamf zua jewi fupi xovj $100 op 2008?

 

[GoGetter24]

Epf ov't puv cideati qiuqmi "Gsiel Uav", ov ot cideati opfowofaemt piif vjios tewopht op vji iyedv vonit vjev vji tvudl nesliv dsetjit.

Vjev't xjz e coh djapl ug "vji sodj hiv sodjis" dunit gsun vji gedv vjiz xisi qsiqesif epf xeovoph gus vji piyv dsetj xovj e qomi ug detj epf cupft.

Vji getdopevoph vjoph ecuav nupiz epf catopitt ot vjev vji nusi O tvafz ov, vji nusi ov katv muult moli cetod joisesdjz dsievoup emuph vji mopit ug janep wosvai.

Gus optvepdi, ov't puv dmies jux emdujum tjuamf ci simevif vu zuas tudoem sepl. Cav vji haz xju tqipft $100 e xiil up "pohjvt uav", wistat vji haz xju tqipft vji teni voni uqisevoph e ces, esi up uqqutovi tofit ug "hivvoph ejief".

Tonomes tvusoit xovj gummuxoph vji dsuxf wistat vjoploph gus zuastimg. Cioph mebz wistat cioph jesfxusloph. Ecfodevoph sitquptocomovz wistat incsedoph ov. Cioph raoiv epf dappoph wistat cioph e muafnuavj epf tvaqof.

Op e xez vji tudoem tvsadvasi ug tudoivz ot dsievif cz muph sap, cavvisgmz-iggidv tvzmi eddanamevoup ug wosvai. Vjot ot xjev e muv ug qiuqmi fimocisevimz tlon uwis up vji "zua opjisovif vjev tu zua fup'v fitiswi ov" CT. Zit vjiz fofp'v, cav tuniupi aq vji hipisevoupem djeop fof, tu ov't nottoph vji quopv.

 

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