Web 3.0 (Ethereum) is happening, and most people have no idea what it even is.

[Harbourmaster]

@parkerscott @Coalission @GlobalWealth @JScott @maverick and all others, thank you for opening my eyes to the potential of this technology! Can you guys give your take on Ripple? Everything I am reading is mentioning Ripple as a game changer in the financial industry.

 

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[Coalission]

@parkerscott @Coalission @GlobalWealth @JScott @maverick and all others, thank you for opening my eyes to the potential of this technology! Can you guys give your take on Ripple? Everything I am reading is mentioning Ripple as a game changer in the financial industry.

I don't know about "game-changer", since it's a closed system whose main focus is on payment transfers and there are lots of things in the financial industry outside of cross-country transfers and remittances, but they have a good chance to become the standard at that segment because of how much money they save banks. Basically they are trying to replace SWIFT (and apparently is poaching its employees in the process).
After trashing Swift gpi, Ripple hires its biz director
Ripple vs. Swift rivalry heats up; banking may be ultimate winner

 

[StevieB]

I've been in the tech industry for almost 10 years, admittedly I only know what I've read in this thread about Ethereum.

However I do work as an Engineer for a multi-billion dollar corporation that uses some of those old IBM mainframes.

So here's my question to those who believe this technology is a "game changer".

It sounds like the reason is because it's capable of executing 'smart contracts'. Such as this example :

"Let's say that we want to organize a small conference. We need 100 people to sign up and pay/deposit money, so we can rent a hotel and such. But if not enough people sign up by a certain date, then the deposits need to be refunded. With Ethereum, we can write in a JavaScript-like language to code up this contract. It'll guarantee that everyone will get a ticket to the conference, or everyone will get their money refunded, depending on how many sign up."

From my understanding it's a public ledger that will grow over time utilizing unused cpu.

How is this better than a company using a private ledger and simply using some python code to do this :

"Let's say that we want to organize a small conference. We need 100 people to sign up and pay/deposit money, so we can rent a hotel and such. But if not enough people sign up by a certain date, then the deposits need to be refunded. With Ethereum, we can write in a JavaScript-like language to code up this contract. It'll guarantee that everyone will get a ticket to the conference, or everyone will get their money refunded, depending on how many sign up.".

This is already possible with applications. We don't need to invent a new protocol and, unless I'm understanding it incorrectly, can't see how this would be a "potential game changer" when we've had the same capability for these 'smart contracts' for decades.

As I said I've been in the tech industry a long time. You often get companies that just re-package the same thing and name it something else then sell it under a new name to make more money off what's been around for a long time.

 

[parkerscott]

I've been in the tech industry for almost 10 years, admittedly I only know what I've read in this thread about Ethereum.

However I do work as an Engineer for a multi-billion dollar corporation that uses some of those old IBM mainframes.

So here's my question to those who believe this technology is a "game changer".

It sounds like the reason is because it's capable of executing 'smart contracts'. Such as this example :

"Let's say that we want to organize a small conference. We need 100 people to sign up and pay/deposit money, so we can rent a hotel and such. But if not enough people sign up by a certain date, then the deposits need to be refunded. With Ethereum, we can write in a JavaScript-like language to code up this contract. It'll guarantee that everyone will get a ticket to the conference, or everyone will get their money refunded, depending on how many sign up."

From my understanding it's a public ledger that will grow over time utilizing unused cpu.

How is this better than a company using a private ledger and simply using some python code to do this :

"Let's say that we want to organize a small conference. We need 100 people to sign up and pay/deposit money, so we can rent a hotel and such. But if not enough people sign up by a certain date, then the deposits need to be refunded. With Ethereum, we can write in a JavaScript-like language to code up this contract. It'll guarantee that everyone will get a ticket to the conference, or everyone will get their money refunded, depending on how many sign up.".

This is already possible with applications. We don't need to invent a new protocol and, unless I'm understanding it incorrectly, can't see how this would be a "potential game changer" when we've had the same capability for these 'smart contracts' for decades.

As I said I've been in the tech industry a long time. You often get companies that just re-package the same thing and name it something else then sell it under a new name to make more money off what's been around for a long time.

Having the program on the blockchain removes any sort of trust needed. Whats stopping the programmer from going back and changing the code, or deleting all the information on the server? Smart contracts remove trust from negotiations. Yes we do have legal protections in place for things like this, but having a contract on a tamper proof blockchain that makes a decision when a condition is met is not possible with a regular application, and takes all the hassle of fighting a case or whatever.

There is a lot more too it than that though.

 

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[Gary]

This thread is fascinating! Hats off to the debate team for keeping it compelling.

This thread also intrigued me for another reason. Has there been back-in-the-day posts on the Forum about the Next Big Thing that actually came to fruition, either through an acknowledged ubiquity or just sheer value? Do any early-adopter-type members have stories of capitalizing on an infant technology or methodology based upon someone sharing it here early on?

 

[Coalission]

How is this better than a company using a private ledger and simply using some python code to do this :

"Let's say that we want to organize a small conference. We need 100 people to sign up and pay/deposit money, so we can rent a hotel and such. But if not enough people sign up by a certain date, then the deposits need to be refunded. With Ethereum, we can write in a JavaScript-like language to code up this contract. It'll guarantee that everyone will get a ticket to the conference, or everyone will get their money refunded, depending on how many sign up.".

This is already possible with applications. We don't need to invent a new protocol and, unless I'm understanding it incorrectly, can't see how this would be a "potential game changer" when we've had the same capability for these 'smart contracts' for decades.

As I said I've been in the tech industry a long time. You often get companies that just re-package the same thing and name it something else then sell it under a new name to make more money off what's been around for a long time.

That's an excellent point, in your specific example you wouldn't use Ethereum or any other blockchain protocol, you'd whip up a database and just have someone manually keep track.

Make the "100 people" into "100 million people" in 95 countries around the world, and then you start to understand the benefit of a trustless contract with no 3rd party. You'd need multiple very trusted 3rd parties, as well as pay a ton of fees along the way to middlemen, FX fees, gateway fees, processing fees etc. It can accomplish your example, just like I'm sure it's possible to program my ceiling fan to connect to my phone so it can sense when I walk into the room and if the phone detects a temperature above my designated comfort level, it turns on automatically. Doesn't mean its practical or makes sense aside from the cool factor when I can just lift my left arm up and turn it on myself if I'm hot.

New technologies tend to solve large-scale problems first before solving the mundane, and some things never really need to be solved, but you'll always have companies trying to overcomplicate and shove the promising technology into everything they can, which is why the "Internet of Shit" Twitter account is so funny despite IoT being a legit thing: Internet of Shit (@internetofshit) | Twitter

 

[luniac]

if everything becomes centrailized connected and virtual, can't everything get f*cked up all at once?

One exploit and its a wrap...

 

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[maverick]

if everything becomes centrailized connected and virtual, can't everything get f*cked up all at once?

One exploit and its a wrap...

Yes, that's why blockchain = decentralized.

 

[luniac]

Yes, that's why blockchain = decentralized.

but if we all use ethereal for financial transactions and storage and it gets compromised all our money is gone.
if the internet crashed today, the world would plunge into chaos, but at least things are stored and backed up.

Can ethereal stuff be backed up?

 

[maverick]

but if we all use ethereal for financial transactions and storage and it gets compromised all our money is gone.
if the internet crashed today, the world would plunge into chaos, but at least things are stored and backed up.

Can ethereal stuff be backed up?

Not entirely sure what you mean with "it":
Check out the attached image. If one or more of the nodes in (3) goes down, the transaction still goes through. This is the core strength of decentralized infrastructures.

Again, not sure what you mean with 'the internet crashes' but let's assume you're talking about DNS. DNS is decentralized as well so the same thing as above applies.

 

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[luniac]

Not entirely sure what you mean with "it":
Check out the attached image. If one or more of the nodes in (3) goes down, the transaction still goes through. This is the core strength of decentralized infrastructures.

Again, not sure what you mean with 'the internet crashes' but let's assume you're talking about DNS. DNS is decentralized as well so the same thing as above applies.

how do you prove a transaction is valid? does the ethereum algorithm prove it valid?
how easy would it be to forge a fake "valid" transaction?

 

[maverick]

how do you prove a transaction is valid? does the ethereum algorithm prove it valid?
how easy would it be to forge a fake "valid" transaction?

See: Why does the "global lottery" prove the validity of the blockchain?

 

[luniac]

ive read ur link, it feels a bit handwavey to me.
for example it's stated "valid is defined by the network's consensus rules", what if the rules are compromised?

also regarding "invalid" blocks
"Honest clients will never relay them to other clients or consider them part of the valid block chain."

what if a bunch of people collaborate on validating invalid blocks?

 

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[maverick]

ive read ur link, it feels a bit handwavey to me.
for example it's stated "valid is defined by the network's consensus rules", what if the rules are compromised?

also regarding "invalid" blocks
"Honest clients will never relay them to other clients or consider them part of the valid block chain."

what if a bunch of people collaborate on validating invalid blocks?

These are all valid questions and ones that have only been answered partially.

• Transactions are immutable which means that you can't reverse/edit them. This solves the problem of cooking the books however does not completely solve the management accounting fraud that happens when higher management is involved.
• Private blockchains will limit access to 'valid' parties however what happens when the banks conglomerate/conspire like in the LIBOR scandal?

The technology is still evolving so, as always, more work needs to be done in certain areas.

 

[parkerscott]

These are all valid questions and ones that have only been answered partially.

• Transactions are immutable which means that you can't reverse/edit them. This solves the problem of cooking the books however does not completely solve the management accounting fraud that happens when higher management is involved.
• Private blockchains will limit access to 'valid' parties however what happens when the banks conglomerate/conspire like in the LIBOR scandal?

The technology is still evolving so, as always, more work needs to be done in certain areas.

I think hes more referring to the consensus algorithm.

If he wants to know what that is, then he is going to need to learn advanced cryptography, game theory, and about things like 51% attacks etc.

In short, the answer is that the system can be compromised although super extremely difficult, but why would the people validating the transactions purposely destroy the system that is paying them? On top of that, they would have to use their own money to disrupt these systems.

These are good questions. It takes a lot of research. Im learning something new everyday it seems like.

 

[maverick]

Good paper on this subject here:
https://wi2017.blob.core.windows.net/website/download/papers/WI2017-0112.pdf

 

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[ZeroTo100]

I think ETH will be big in the future. The issue isn't that it won't be big, but rather the massive pump how heavily inflated its ticker is...

People that don't know anything about it like most users on business forums like this one know that they can hop in and buy ETH on impulse - and you pumpers/promoters know that also.

I know people that have been in this a long time and are in way under $80...

Better watch out for panic sellers - would love to see this run all the way back down to where it started

I got in under $8. Im not here to pump or promote.

Just lol if you think promoting here is going to even put a tiny dent in the marketcap. I have nothing to gain by informing anyone.

Can we please just focus on the technology rather than the price? I could talk about the price all day, but that is not what I want the discussion to be about.

Stock promoters push stocks all day on message boards. I'm not saying you're wrong about the benefits but I think it's funny that ETH is up over 900% on speculation since January. Stock promoters use this same lingo - "I'm not here to push the stock, I just want to educate you." If you are in at $8 you obviously have a financial interest in wanting to educate the forum. You obviously got in way before January. This is no small forum - you and I both know that. It's probably as active as some of the yahoo message boards which I'm sure you're on also. It may not move the market cap but it def will spur interest in getting people in and may even help to keep it afloat.

 

[wade1mil]

Stock promoters push stocks all day on message boards.

I don't think he's promoting the stock as much as the technology and its possible business applications.

 

[pds]

Great thread! Thanks to those who contributed on both sides. I'm a BTC investor, but see way more potential for ETH.

Regarding people getting on board...this just came out:

Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank President Neel Kashkari said on Tuesday that blockchain technology has more potential for being adopted in the future than bitcoin itself.

"I think sentiment has shifted in the markets, in the Fed," Kashkari said in a speech at a technology conference in Minneapolis, Minnesota. "I would say I think conventional wisdom now is that blockchain and the underlying technology is probably more interesting and has more potential than maybe bitcoin does by itself."

 

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[ZeroTo100]

I don't think he's promoting the stock as much as the technology and its possible business applications.

As if there is a difference! He should have disclosed that he was long in his first post (under 8). What he said was that you can either buy, trade, or invest in applications to make money in the space. Nobody has seen to shed the light on how to go about building applications in the space because nobody knows the language to build them in. So the next best (quick) alternative is to invest or trade? I've seen how volatile the price swings are in this. Not once has he cautioned investors nor spoke about the negatives. Again, not saying he is wrong about the technology but paint the full picture - not 1 side.

Remember - protect your portfolio! Rule #1 as an investor.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Stock promoters push stocks all day on message boards.

I noticed the same thing.

The chest-thumping is because of vested financial interests. This goes beyond the human urge to be right.

So the discussion is like a flame war about stocks -- AAPL is going to 200! No, AAPL is going to 100! We see the same thing with MLM -- you're wrong and you should join the revolution! If you don't join, you're an idiot! And you're no entrepreneur! And because you're wrong, I'll be rich!

As such, the resulting conversation has been quite informative -- not just with respect to the technology, but with respect to psychology and how people will defend (or promote) opinions based on a prediction where they have skin in the game.

My stomach hurts from all the popcorn.

 

[wade1mil]

As if there is a difference! He should have disclosed that he was long in his first post (under 8). What he said was that you can either buy, trade, or invest in applications to make money in the space. Nobody has seen to shed the light on how to go about building applications in the space because nobody knows the language to build them in. So the next best (quick) alternative is to invest or trade? I've seen how volatile the price swings are in this. Not once has he cautioned investors nor spoke about the negatives. Again, not saying he is wrong about the technology but paint the full picture - not 1 side.

Remember - protect your portfolio! Rule #1 as an investor.

That's fair. I didn't even see that angle when reading the thread - possibly because I have no desire to invest in it regardless. I was just thinking about the potential applications for the technology. What problems can I solve with it? I have a coding background, so I went through a dozen tutorials yesterday and have a basic understanding of creating contracts now. The contracts I created don't have any real value, but it's opened my eyes to the possibilities. The language is called Solidify and it's similar to JavaScript if anyone is interested.

 

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[samsara]

What problems can I solve with it?

The Fastlane mindset in action

 

[parkerscott]

As if there is a difference! He should have disclosed that he was long in his first post (under 8). What he said was that you can either buy, trade, or invest in applications to make money in the space. Nobody has seen to shed the light on how to go about building applications in the space because nobody knows the language to build them in. So the next best (quick) alternative is to invest or trade? I've seen how volatile the price swings are in this. Not once has he cautioned investors nor spoke about the negatives. Again, not saying he is wrong about the technology but paint the full picture - not 1 side.

Remember - protect your portfolio! Rule #1 as an investor.

Im pretty sure I suggested people develop applications in this space rather than investing in the application. I havent shed light on it because nobody has even asked about it yet. The main focus is not on the price. Do I stand to make money if the price goes up? Yeah? Do I, and others stand to make even more money if applications that create value are created in this space? You bet!

I much rather have the discussion be about the technology, and the possibilities.

 

[Coalission]

I noticed the same thing.

The chest-thumping is because of vested financial interests. This goes beyond the human urge to be right.

So the discussion is like a flame war about stocks -- AAPL is going to 200! No, AAPL is going to 100! We see the same thing with MLM -- you're wrong and you should join the revolution! If you don't join, you're an idiot! And you're no entrepreneur! And because you're wrong, I'll be rich!

As such, the resulting conversation has been quite informative -- not just with respect to the technology, but with respect to psychology and how people will defend (or promote) opinions based on a prediction where they have skin in the game.

My stomach hurts from all the popcorn.

It happens even when you don't have skin in the game, you just don't experience it because it's your forum so no one ever openly debates with you, you just have to drop subtle hints on what side you're on and then let your echo chamber handle the rest.

Let's not pretend if anyone else had made your "Options are fastlane, you just have to trade them like I do!" thread, they wouldn't deal with a barrage of posts like "What's Theta? What's Gamma? Butterfly spreads sounds like some stupid marketing BS. What value are you providing? What's your exit strategy? Sounds like gambling. Why not start a real business? I don't understand it so you're a poopy face fraudster!"

It's the same attitude people have from the old affiliate marketing threads. "I tried it once and lost money, that means all of affiliate marketing is a scam!" Yeah I've lost money trading options, doesn't mean I have to go shit on every options thread I find and belittle the people doing it like they're participating in some elaborate scheme. Maybe my one small specific strategy in the immense world of options trading was wrong? Nah, that makes me look bad, instead I'll just troll every thread I find on the subject and ignore any research provided that refutes my argument.

At no point did @parkerscott tell anyone to buy anything, and he's not anyone's babysitter. He's excited about something that has made him some money, and made a well-thought out thread about it with research to back it up, just like you got excited about options because you made money with them, and decided to share your strategy with the community.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

It happens even when you don't have skin in the game, you just don't experience it because it's your forum so no one ever openly debates with you, you just have to drop subtle hints on what side you're on and then let your echo chamber handle the rest.

Let's not pretend if anyone else had made your "Options are fastlane, you just have to trade them like I do!" thread, they wouldn't deal with a barrage of posts like "What's Theta? What's Gamma? Butterfly spreads sounds like some stupid marketing BS. What value are you providing? What's your exit strategy? Sounds like gambling. Why not start a real business? I don't understand it so you're a poopy face fraudster!"

It's the same attitude people have from the old affiliate marketing threads. "I tried it once and lost money, that means all of affiliate marketing is a scam!" Yeah I've lost money trading options, doesn't mean I have to go shit on every options thread I find and belittle the people doing it like they're participating in some elaborate scheme. Maybe my one small specific strategy in the immense world of options trading was wrong? Nah, that makes me look bad, instead I'll just troll every thread I find on the subject and ignore any research provided that refutes my argument.

At no point did @parkerscott tell anyone to buy anything, and he's not anyone's babysitter. He's excited about something that has made him some money, and made a well-thought out thread about it with research to back it up, just like you got excited about options because you made money with them, and decided to share your strategy with the community.

I'm not on any side other than I said I'm avoiding it due to a lack of understanding (and the opps for scamage due to it), but I appreciate your strawman arguments bro.

But anyway, I hope it gives you the feel good tinglies!!

 

[Coalission]

I'm not on any side other than I said I'm avoiding it due to a lack of understanding (and the opps for scamage due to it), but I appreciate your strawman arguments bro.

But anyway, I hope it gives you the feel good tinglies!!

Lol fair enough...I just thought people spent their time to find good information on the subject and you made it sound like this was Stocktwits after earnings or the old Yahoo Finance message boards.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Let's not pretend if anyone else had made your "Options are fastlane, you just have to trade them like I do!" thread, they wouldn't deal with a barrage of posts like "What's Theta? What's Gamma? Butterfly spreads sounds like some stupid marketing BS. What value are you providing? What's your exit strategy? Sounds like gambling. Why not start a real business? I don't understand it so you're a poopy face fraudster!"

BTW, this actually just happened last week when a new user claimed to make $$$ trading markets, in a fashion I'm not familiar with.

Introduction - Hello to all - Risking it all for more
(Your ETH troll is there doubting results too lol.)

When someone demonstrates competency in a particular area I don't understand, I don't shoot them down. Solid, documented results (this guy said he traded successfully for years, and in my case, I provided documentation in my 30 page thread) speaks volumes. If I counter with skeptical questions its usually because someone has latched on to a concept where they clearly lack education, or they're making ambiguous undocumented statements, usually anonymously. ("I'm gonna load my account with $10K and trade futures with no experience!")

I just thought people spent their time to find good information on the subject and you made it sound like this was Stocktwits after earnings or the old Yahoo Finance message boards.

If I thought the ETH concept was a joke or something not worthy of a serious discussion (both sides) I would have NOT promoted it to NOTABLE, then GOLD. I appreciate how this thread has materialized into a wealth of information. The extensive links and commentary you and others have provided provides the solid foundation for someone like me to research it and make their own assessments... and that is what this forum is about.

(end thread hijack...)

 

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[BlakeIC]

Do people still have to download entire blockchain histories (like bitcoin currency) when using the ethereum platform/protocols?

 

[StevieB]

I'm glad Etherium is being spoken about here. When people ask me why it will change the internet I give them this analogy. Say I have a dog walking business and I tell you that I'll walk your little fluffy for 5 miles a day. Right now, I take your dog for a 2 mile walk and charge you for 5. You still pay me for 5 even though I haven't completed the work properly. If Fluffy had a collar on its neck that was connected to the Etherium network, the smart contract (on the blockchain) would determine how far I had walked the dog and would only release the money (ether) to me once the dog had been walked 5 miles.

Etherium (mainly smart contracts) will take change how the internet works, because money is only released when certain aspects are met. For coders on here now I believe you can smash it but creating agencies that develop smart contracts and sites built on Etherium for businesses, e.g in the law sector. Something like Airbnb could be replaced by a website where smart contracts are used. So once the person has stayed and are happy the money is released to the owner.

I think it's exciting. I could think of 100 business right now that would benefit from Etherium.

I've heard this hype before.

It comes around every 4 or 5 years with some other type of technology.

These days in the Networking world it's "Software Defined Networking"! It's going to change everything! Just one click and it set's everything up from the database, to the firewall rules, to the routing!

That's right, there's now technology that a server admin can simply put in a few parameters they need and everything between hard disk space, to memory, routing and firewall rules will be automatically created.

Except that the technology has been around since 1995. They just call it something different now, and the people pushing it are making millions. There's lots of technology repacked and re-released like this, under a different name but essentially the same concepts.

Now, I'm not saying there haven't been improvements made and that the technology wont change the industry. It certainly will, somewhat but not nearly as much as the hype makes it sound like.

Ethereum, from what I understand, seems to be a decent improvement over bitcoin. However it doesn't really do anything new that hasn't been around since C. They're just replacing the name software or now everyone calls it application with smart contract.

Sounds fancy eh? It isn't. You can already make X funds released when A happens in any application.

The problem with cryptocurrency is it has to actually be something that people want to exchange. US Dollars are backed by the US Govt.... bitcoins you're just relying on stock value essentially.

Now, I do believe there can and will be a lot of money made and lost in this space, but taking a step back I don't see anything 'ground breaking' here. A program can accomplish the same thing, has been able to for decades.

Also even IF technology is majorly beneficial, it still has to make financial sense for companies, and ultimately consumers to adopt it. IPv6 has been around for a while now, but IPv4 is still BY FAR the dominating protocol. Why? Because it works, and companies don't need to spend tens of millions to make the transition if they're already deeply embedded in IPv4. They don't need to change it even though it's more secure and efficient than IPv4.

It has to solve a problem that is worth the time, effort, and investment for them to make the change. Not only that but the right people have to know about it and sign off on it.

I'm also a bit confused about this part :

"Something like Airbnb could be replaced by a website where smart contracts are used."

So essentially replacing a website.... with another website. How is that so beneficial? You still need someone to code the smart contract, or provide a previously made one. I can't imagine that would be cheaper than the 3 dollar fee AirBnB charges me.