Ongoing Terrorist Attack on Canadian Parliament

[Vigilante]

All : the original intent of the OP was, as a Canadian resident, to comment on the events as they unfold in Canada. It is a horrific tragedy. There's a LOT of commentary out there on it from perspectives of the political and religious ramifications.

We've had numerous requests to shut the thread down as it is teetering on the edge of politics and religious discussions. We want to be a place where current events don't go uncommented on, especially something as horrific as this. However, political conclusions and/or religious statements are the fastest way to get a thread like this off topic, and shut down.

So... please use this as an opportunity to comment on any breaking news, but if this continues to slide down the political or religious we'll close it down and everyone will go back to talking business. Don't screw up a chance to express your sentiments towards the loss of life in Canada, but we're not going to deviate from forum policies regarding steering clear of the overtly political or religious. There's plenty of other venues for those discussions to take place.

 

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[Jake]

nuke the bastards, starting from Iraq. No need to give weapons to any anti-ISIS group that will fight against us ten years from now, using the same weapons.

Or stop arming rebels who then become terrorist groups. We've been fighting individuals who have been armed / trained by the U.S for ages now

Nuking anyone would easily spark another war we do not need.

I'd say education is the key to getting this to end.

This. Obviously education is a long term solution and not a short term one though. Education on both sides of the equation.

You can't nuke an idea. Collateral damage and even targeted killings create more enemies (friends, family members, etc)

Decentralized networks route around damage so killing a small portion does little to no good.

Enough political shit though.

This coming from a guy who has spent 1.5 years in Iraq, 3+ in Afghanistan, and additional time throughout the middle east. I've been there for the backlash

 

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[SBS.95]

Can I do anything about it? No?
END.

Get back to reality & work on my stuff/business.

That is a damn ignorant attitude to have. What if one of these soldiers had been your friend/family? We should all just not give a shit?

Just because you can't change the past doesn't mean you need to act apathetic towards innocent people who were just slaughtered. If you are that selfish I highly doubt your ability to help other people with your "business".

And FYI, this is reality. I don't know what you think it is.

Never before have I thought lower of someone on this forum. I think you are an incredibly disrespectful person.

 

[Jake]

As much as I hate to say this (since I'm a hyper-pacifist), history has shown that utterly destroying a nation seems to bring a more lasting peace than just "surgically removing" certain radical elements.

Keyword: Nation

Isis is not a Nation. Hell, Iraq really isn't even a nation. It's a completely divided country with lines drawn by the British. There won't be peace as long as the borders remain the same.

But let's just go ahead an nuke 10's of millions of people so they stop killing each other..that would make sense /s

 

[Mike Kavanagh]

nuke the bastards, starting from Iraq. No need to give weapons to any anti-ISIS group that will fight against us ten years from now, using the same weapons.

Nuking anyone would easily spark another war we do not need.

I'd say education is the key to getting this to end.

 

[smarty]

Can I do anything about it? No?
END.

Get back to reality & work on my stuff/business.

 

[pickeringmt]

Anybody can be radicalized though cultural manipulation, and I think that this thread demonstrates that to some degree.

You have free-thinking people from the first world saying that we should nuke an entire country because of this minority of psychopaths?

I imagine that this is pretty much the same mindset as these terrorist hypocrites. That is what fuels all of this. Collective damnation.

The only solution that I see is for the other +/- 2 billion Muslims to take some action and show the world that this is bullshit.

Some do anyways, but we don't see that on the news. Don't expect to, either.

Freaks all over the world do things like this everyday. These freaks just attach their horrific actions to a religion to justify their own agenda - and people accept that because it is easier to think that these people have something making them do this. The truth is, every one of these people makes their own decisions, and it has nothing to do with religion - just personal weakness and failure as a human being.

 

[Ninjakid]

On a more relevant topic, yesterday soldiers were asked to guard the memorials in honour of Cpl. Nathan Cirillo. In Vancouver, a 63 year old veteran, Cpl. David Ward stood out in the rain in uniform and medals. Many soldiers were encouraged to not wear their meals or uniforms so they wouldn't be targeted by radicals. Cpl. Ward said, "if ISIS wants me, they can come get me. We're going to show we're not afraid. If we run and hide, they've won."

 

[RHL]

He was just an unarmed reservist manning a ceremonial post guarding a peace memorial. :'(

Of course. Did you think for a second that terrorists would ever have the balls to try and fight an actual armed soldier on fair terms?

As an aside, the police at these facilities really need to up their game for firearm incident response. In that one video, they're in a gaggle in the center of a wide open hall looking for the shooter. That's very unsafe. They should be hugging the walls with the center covered from the rear.

I hope they save Canada the expense of a trial.

 

[Formless]

On second thought, education could mean many different things. Could you clarify please?

Education is not going to school and learning mathematics. It is learning why their ideology and religion (and most religions, yes PLEASE get offended) are utterly stupid, counter productive and illogical. Reshape what is considered valuable, and shun their values of today. 'Give the taste of the better life. Hey this is a TV. Hey this is freedom of marriage. Hey this is freedom of choice... Smells good, don't it?' I'd go into a lot more detail but I have to go to class, so I'll sum up quickly.

I mean, we've done this in 'the west' with religion and LGBT rights ever since Rock Music came around, and that wasn't even a concentrated effort, we are killing religion and stupidity, and although the war is NOT won over here, we ARE winning. How many hardcore religious 20 year olds you know?

@RichKid Let me preface this that I want to be extremely careful about what I say to you. You have a pain in this that I do not, just as the deceased family of that officer does, because it is a tragedy. It WILL take generations upon generations to change things, but it's not like 'WE' (The West) haven't gone and stirred this pot (that is ABSOLUTELY NOT AN EXCUSE FOR THESE ACTIONS, NOT ONE BIT.)

They see Martyrdom. Most of them probably just see revenge. Revenge for:

- All the people killed, sorry, casualities sustained during the peace missions in Iraq and Afghanistan
- Innocent Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and worldwide blacksite detainees (I know Canada didn't build them. But we call them 'Muslims' and they call us 'The West' they don't differentiate, plus CN had involvement in these conflicts)
- Pussy-footed interference in politics (we'll kill everything then we'll install a moron puppet government and let them ruin your country, because it's in our interests.)

Do I believe we can do this with charity workers? Nope. The fighters and enforcers need to be killed, and a US government ex-spook I know actually told me that they are doing a very good job of destroying their own support in those countries. Destroy that which is beyond saving (and that isn't always done with head on war-fare, these groups are not as tight and organized as you'd think. Sowing discord.) and re-educate the rest as much as possible, so that pockets of kids don't grow up with 'the west' as a dartboard.

This is not even remotely in the detail I should have written it in, I have to go.

 

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[jon.a]

In general? yes. This specific issue (ISIS), no.
I am the first and foremost supporter of education and cultural growth. But I ain't going to give a lecture on macroeconomics to stop a burglar.

Don't misjudge my attitude. I believe most wars that we're currently engaged in should be conducted via snipers, drones and napalm each has it's unique place.

A soldier has two important goals. First, exhaust all options prior to going to war. Second, win the damn thing as fast as possible. It's the civilians that F*ck up these two goals.

 

[SBS.95]

conversion to fully auto info is easily accessible all over the internet. Bad guys don't obey gun laws

I can't tell if this comment is pro/anti gun. Hard to detect through the internet.

Either way, I feel inclined to point out to people who may read this, that most "bad guys" have no interest in converting their weapons to full auto. There's a common misconception among people that haven't tried to shoot that automatics are these killing machines like Call Of Duty. They really aren't. Everyone is more accurate with a semi-auto. I've got family members in the Special Forces who will tell you the same thing. Automatics make the firearm very hard to wrangle.

Regardless, if anything this incident should serve as an example that strict gun laws will not prevent gun violence.

 

[ChickenHawk]

Terrible news. I'm so sorry to hear that, and I agree with your sentiments 100%.

 

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[theag]

I'd say education is the key to getting this to end.

When those crazy bastards cut your head off, all your education becomes pretty useless.

I'm with Writer. Those F*ckers should be bombed off the planet.

 

[Shdreams]

the police at these facilities really need to up their game for firearm incident response.

I live 10 mins away from the action. It's pretty sad. Alot of us in Ottawa take pride in the fact that you can just walk into the most Important building in canada at anytime. During normal work hours of course. I know parliament Hill very well, Been living here 30 years. There is always at the least 5 marked cars on the "front lawn" of parliament. and probably 10 total around the hill. It doesn't make sense that the guy made it inside. But at the same time. There is always tourists buzzing around so it really wouldn't be that hard to hug a crowd of people and walk rite in. Where the guard was shot and where parliament hill is. you walk 40 yards, turn right and your on the busiest street in Ottawa and 300 yards from the front door.
Our doors are locked. I heard an interview with a police officer stating they are very certain there were 2 people. I doubt he'll choose our door if he's still out there. But he's more than welcome to try

 

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[SBS.95]

This is only your own interpretation of what I said - which by the way is entirely wrong.
No one will do or say anything which is not a direct reflection of what they think or feel about themselves in that moment.

What if? What if I had died today? What if will die tomorrow? What if your comment is just an emotional reaction and doesn't make sense?

What I meant is that it's very easy to dwell on everything bad that's going on around us but does it really matter?
I read the news and of course it's a shame for what happened but you could dwell on that all day long scanning every news outlet out there, or focus on what currently matters more.

And I certainly am not going to spend any more time replying to your next emotional butt hurt reaction here. Good luck with that.

By all means, feel free to tell us what you meant. That's a decently sized post to not say anything at all.

What if I interpreted your post correctly and you're too proud to say "Yeah, that was a dick move." Happens to me all the time when I say things in the heat of the moment. Nothing to be ashamed about.

What if it was possible to recognize that this thread was about showing respect to the victims and to Canadians, and that a callous attitude would come across as rude?

What if this thread was posted in "Current Events, Sports, Off-Topic", and if you only come here to talk business, you have no need to post in threads like this?

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Kevin Vickers, what a hero

 

[Vigilante]

Vigilance may some day help keep you safe. I mourn the cause, but hope you keep the alert vigilance and never slip back to complacency. Vigilance helps you assess trouble sooner. Look up the OODA loop and study it. Then practice it.

 

[Writer]

nuke the bastards, starting from Iraq. No need to give weapons to any anti-ISIS group that will fight against us ten years from now, using the same weapons.

 

[AllenCrawley]

I'd say education is the key to getting this to end.

SMFH

 

[Yasai]

You can't nuke an idea. Collateral damage and even targeted killings create more enemies (friends, family members, etc)

As much as I hate to say this (since I'm a hyper-pacifist), history has shown that, in some cases, utterly destroying a nation seems to bring a more lasting peace than just "surgically removing" certain radical elements.

Germany and Japan are proof that this approach "resets" certain areas and allows them to start over (both are now at the top with regards to their economies - Japan even used to strictly isolate itself from the world before they lost in WW2).
You said you can't nuke an idea... apparently, you can.

Now, as I mentioned, I'm just stating what history has shown. I'm sure there's ALWAYS a diplomatic solution, especially since times are changing.
And just because something has worked in the past doesn't mean you need (or are even allowed/entitled) to repeat that - especially because it costs so many lives. I believe every life is precious.

And history has also shown that diplomatic approaches are just as effective as military intervention. People just don't notice them as much because the media usually only focuses on "dramatic" stuff like armed conflict.

 

[DeletedUser394]

Can I do anything about it? No?
END.

Get back to reality & work on my stuff/business.

Yes, go back to your 'business'.

Knowing many people in the Canadian reserves, and myself having interacted with the local regiment not long ago, this hit close to home, and I wanted an outlet to talk about.

 

[playa77]

I live 10 mins away from the action. It's pretty sad. Alot of us in Ottawa take pride in the fact that you can just walk into the most Important building in canada at anytime. During normal work hours of course. I know parliament Hill very well, Been living here 30 years. There is always at the least 5 marked cars on the "front lawn" of parliament. and probably 10 total around the hill. It doesn't make sense that the guy made it inside. But at the same time. There is always tourists buzzing around so it really wouldn't be that hard to hug a crowd of people and walk rite in. Where the guard was shot and where parliament hill is. you walk 40 yards, turn right and your on the busiest street in Ottawa and 300 yards from the front door.
Our doors are locked. I heard an interview with a police officer stating they are very certain there were 2 people. I doubt he'll choose our door if he's still out there. But he's more than welcome to try

Stay safe, this will likely be over soon.
My thoughts are with you canadians right now. A lot of my friends who have been there told me you have a great country, one which i would surely like to visit some day. I had the chance to get to know some of your countrymen recently, which was a very pleasant experience.

I cannot imagine what the situation would be like here in Germany if something similar to this were to happen. This is some serious shit.

 

[DeletedUser394]

Stay safe, this will likely be over soon.
My thoughts are with you canadians right now. A lot of my friends who have been there told me you have a great country, one which i would surely like to visit some day. I had the chance to get to know some of your countrymen recently, which was a very pleasant experience.

I cannot imagine what the situation would be like here in Germany if something similar to this were to happen. This is some serious shit.

I used to work in the hospitality industry, and by far the largest group of foreign visitors are/were German. Got pretty crazy during the World Cup around here!

 

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[playa77]

I used to work in the hospitality industry, and by far the largest group of foreign visitors are/were German. Got pretty crazy during the World Cup around here!

Haha, i can imagine that. The evening when we won the World Cup it was absolutely batshit crazy around here. Think big street crossings where traffic just stopped, and people where standing on their cars waving flags, hugging and singing, including the local police

But just recently, i've learned that canadians can and like to party just as hard as we do. And i'd like to correct my previous sentence:
"great country, one which i would surely like to visit some day". Replace "i would surely like to" with "i will".

 

[MJ DeMarco]

C'mon guys try to keep the discussion contained to the incident. I know that's tough, but lets please try.

 

[Ninjakid]

This is only your own interpretation of what I said - which by the way is entirely wrong.
No one will do or say anything which is not a direct reflection of what they think or feel about themselves in that moment.

What if? What if I had died today? What if will die tomorrow? What if your comment is just an emotional reaction and doesn't make sense?

What I meant is that it's very easy to dwell on everything bad that's going on around us but does it really matter?
I read the news and of course it's a shame for what happened but you could dwell on that all day long scanning every news outlet out there, or focus on what currently matters more.

And I certainly am not going to spend any more time replying to your next emotional butt hurt reaction here. Good luck with that.

Isn't it great to have the luxury of getting to just forget and move on with your life?

Honestly, sometimes I forget how comfortable my life is, when there's a whole world out there that's at war. Then incidents like this remind me of the reality every day.

The soldiers who are at war defending our country so we can can have discussions like this on this forum don't get to forget and move on.

Cpl. Cirillo's family won't be forgetting and moving on.

Have some respect.

 

[JAJT]

I'm also from Ottawa.

My wife and a buddy work a 2 minute walk from where this all went down. Their buildings (and many others) went into "lockdown" mode where they lock the doors and nobody gets in or out. Some schools in Ottawa were locked down as well. It was all over the news, stories of up to 5 gunmen, police begging people to stop reporting their locations on social media, downtown was crawling with cops, cell phones weren't working from too much call volume... it was an eventful day to be sure.

To add a dash of city-wide fear into the equation many parts of our city even lost power because of some fluke coincidence. Really bad timing during a terrorist attack for sure...

All things considered this could have been a lot, lot worse. Glad there was as few casualties as there were and its tragic that there had to be any.

 

[jon.a]

Religion....sigh

WAR

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Nuking anyone would easily spark another war we do not need.

I'd say education is the key to getting this to end.

This has been going on for a couple thousand years. It will never end. It's an endless loop.

We are way past the point of ever achieving peaceful coexistence.

I once wanted to visit every country on earth. As time progressed I realized there are certain countries I will never visit/support/help and I don't care what happens to them.