Occupy Wallstreet Thoughts

[CarrieW]

I dont understand why I am the one who keeps getting quoted.

I didnt even say anything significant. all I said was that they have the right to protest anything they want.

I agree that people can say whatever they like about what they think about the movement either for or against. my point is that people shouldnt write them off as sensless hippies simply because they disagree...or because they dont like how they look.

what I said is fundamentally correct. I never said there shouldnt be an open discussion. I dislike the fact that people insult other people who dont think like they do or agree with their politics, that was all I said. insulting people doesnt make you right it just makes you look like a douchebag...

so you all can go on and quote me all you like, but before you do at least read what I wrote as it was intended. I never even picked a frickin side and Im still made to look wrong!

 

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[Anon3587x]

I dont understand why I am the one who keeps getting quoted.

. . . lol

 

[Rickson9]

Most of you do not remember the last time we had a big recession (the 1970s). It sucked. All of a sudden (it seemed), OPEC jacked up oil prices, and we had gas shortages (and crazy high gas prices).

Those were good times. Easiest time (aside from right now) to become a millionaire.

"1973: Stock prices begin to drop; Warren Buffett is euphoric despite his personal worth dropping by 50%. Buffett goes on a buying spree."

 

[Rem]

What is strange is that this American protest on Wall Street was instigated by a Canadian activist group. I understand people wanting to protest against corporate greed, etc, but this isn't really what it's about unfortunately. This is more of a means to an end. If you follow the money trail you see that this Canadian activist group is financially supported by George Soros, The American Communist Party, The American Socialist Party, and many other radical groups that scream economic inequality. Kind of strange about the timing of all this, where Obama tried to get Congress to pass a bill sucking the wealth out of Millionaires and Billionaires to help foot the bill for America's habit of overspending and mismanaging the people's money.

This is an aim to divide the American people by trying to make those with money look bad. This alleviates pressure from the government as being the root of the problem, and points to those millionaires and billionaires as taking away everyone's wealth.

For a president to give a "shout out" and support this group is also a red flag. I am not opposed to protesting, I just am opposed to what the protestors stand for.

 

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[CarrieW]

My parents moved us to Levittown Pa in 1979. do a google search for the 1979 gas riots. check out the picutres.

while I dont remember them My parents and many others do very well.

Its freaky to see pictures of where I grew up on fire n shit. 5 points was less then a 10-15 minute walk from my childhood home. we heard about the riots often growing up.

I may not agree with everything these protesters are saying but I have empthay for their cause.

My step dad is retiring this year. My real dad retired a few years ago. they are both 2 people who did everything they were supposed to do their entire lives and are retiring in the midst of all this mess. most of their retirements are gone due to the stock market bullshit thats been happening for the last few years. granted they could have maybe educated themselves better and invested differently but they were raising familys and doing their jobs 40-80hours a week doing everything right.(or at least they thought) they werent investment professionals. lets just say their retirements arent going to be anything like they expected or deserve!

theres hundreds of thousands of people who paid hundreds of thousands of dollars and busted their asses studying that cant get jobs becauase people cant afford to retire.

theres hundreds of thousands of people living with multiple generations of family because they would be on the street and homeless if they didnt.

theres something wrong here. its going to hit the fan. this is just the beginning.

I know people wh oare personally affected by this terribly. My own husband didnt have steady work for almost 2 years. theres people out of work for years and years now who are willing to do just about any job they could find and would be more then greatful for any of those dead end shit jobs everyone complains about in that thread and say thank you at the end of the day, whos kids are going hungry or without things they need and deserve due to things over which they have no control.

they dont deserve it and if they feel like gathering and protesting to try to change something, ANYTHING then I say more power to them!

you dismissing people as mindless or senseless or hippies or any of the other insults I have seen here is insulting to just about everyone I know and I take it personally. on their behalfs. like I said I may be here for personal financial freedom and to create my own wealth but I have a heart and I can empthize with these people.

I dont know how to fix it. I dont know whos right. I dont even care. I just want people to be able to talk about it before there are riots instead of protests. I dont want my kids looking back 30 yrs at pictures of their hometowns on fire from rioting.

insulting people and telling them they are wrong or mindless hippies or unreasonable is only going to make the situation worse.

its happened before and as it was stated before it will happen again. if 99% of the people agree I think that automatically makes the 1% wrong. even if I am in the 1%.

 

[CarrieW]

The Nations First Gasoline Riot

 

[Kak]

My parents moved us to Levittown Pa in 1979. do a google search for the 1979 gas riots. check out the picutres.
................

Carrie in a capitalistic society your decisions drive your life. Too many people think they can just work their whole lives and throw what they don't spend into a managed retirement account and trust that it will accumumulate.

Im curious what exactly do you think your dad and stepdad should be protesting? That the stock market went down? Really? What are they asking for? They want money from people who are still working. Is that "fair" to you? That the people working right now and "doing all the right things" should have to pay for everyone else pisspoor decisions?

Im sorry, I'm not going to support a bunch of mindless hippies that want to subsidize crappy decisions.

Your dad and step-dad screwed themselves by gambling with their money. They had the decision to invest or not. They also had a decision apparently not to seek any sort of investment education and try to make money in a bear market. It is their fault! People in this country need to take some damn responsibility for their lives and stop thinking that someone else should take care of their screw-ups.

 

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[CarrieW]

no lol niether of them are protesting. that wasnt my point.


they didnt just invest in a bear market. they have been working and putting money into retirement accounts for the last 45 yrs.

my dad is retired. he has whatever money he saved and social security. my step dad is still working but lost a decent % of his retirement accounts the same way alot of people did. he is debating again if he wants to retire. they already pushed it back once. they are supposed to retire in apr of 12.

I was using them as an example of why people are doing what they are doing in reguards to protesting. its not all about just 1 person with 1 issue its a major widespread thing. I just read an article how the occupy la movement stopped a foreclosure on a womans home.

your making alot of assumtions about what I said. I think you should reread my post. you totally didnt get the point.

 

[77startup]

Carrie I like you and find the majority of your posts insightful, however I'm not understanding you on this one.

You're speaking from the heart, from what things "should be", but life wasn't made to be that kind. The cold hardreality is that our economy goes through cycles of prosperity and devastation and that's the way things are. No matter what is "right" or "wrong" reality will continue to mercilessly strike down those who do not adapt quickly to its constantly changing moods.

ps. I personally have been hit by this devastation as well and have many friends and family members who have also been hurt. However, protesting or rioting solves nothing and simply wastes more of your limited time on this planet. It's best to accept the current day situation and strive to succeed regardless.

 

[CarrieW]

Thanks for your post 77.

I dont personally know any people who are protesting. I just have the ability to see myself or people I love in just about everyone out there. I can empthize with people even if I dont agree.

its not anything specific that I agree with in their protests. I just can see why they think and why they feel the way they do. and even if I know better and even if I disagree with them I can respect them and their opinions.

this is what I see lacking in many of the posts here. there is no respect. without respect then nothing they say or think can ever be respected or agreed with right or wrong. it is here where things go bad. discussions break down, people get afraid to stand up for what they believe in for fear of being mocked and insulted, and when people get afraid they get angry and lash out.

if people could just learn to be tolerant of others, learn to agree to disagree and try to not toss out insults to tear people who dont think like them down, maybe even god forbid listen to them without judgement this world would be a much better place.

if there is no discussion things cant ever be resolved. if everyones wants these protests over somethings got to give. and I doubt the movement is just going to decide to give up.

so imo its time to listen to people without all this hatred and maybe try to come up with a compromise that everyone can live with.

yeah this may be how things would be in a perfect world and I know this world isnt perfect not by a long shot, I feel its something worth trying for.

even if its only on the board.

 

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[Kak]

I'm I wrong to think that each person is entitled to nothing more than what their decisions led them to?

 

[DirectInc_Becky]

Thanks for that healthy dose of objectification! Always great to join a new forum and know that it's not inclusive to women.

 

[SHHDlove]

Thanks for that healthy dose of objectification! Always great to join a new forum and know that it's not inclusive to women.

I'm sorry, what are you referring to? Can you post a quote?

 

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[CarrieW]

I'm I wrong to think that each person is entitled to nothing more than what their decisions led them to?

yes and no lol.

I dont want to get booted off here for victim mentality here so I wont go into details but sometimes things happen in our lives over which we have no control.

I know some people here dont agree with that but it is true. life happens. health events happen. yeah sometimes theres some choices you have personal control over in some situations, sometimes you dont, sometimes you dont know the full consequences of your choices untill its too late. some things are decided for you at birth or in the way you were raised/born.

some things happen that have nothing to do with any decision you have made, sometimes its due to others decisions that effect you.

some people have great advantages that they have done nothing to deserve, theres pleanty of people who deserve great advantages they dont get them.

life is unfair. sometimes someone gets the shitty end of the stick and it isnt their fault.

 

[77startup]

The Real 99% : politics

Btw Carrie I understand you now. I guess it's a big difference in the way men and women tend to think. Men usually just want to be right and only understand enough to be correct. Your talk of compromise and understanding must have thrown some of us guys off =)

 

[CarrieW]

Thanks for that healthy dose of objectification! Always great to join a new forum and know that it's not inclusive to women.

huh? theres quite a few female posters on this forum?

 

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[Kak]

I realize that you can't change the cards that you are dealt but you can change the way you play them.

The majority of these people were dealt a opportunity to go to college and played them like shit on degrees like history of glass blowing.

Your Dad and Stepdad were dealt the ability to continue to work jobs, and decided to have someone else invest their money or decided to invest without a good knowledge.

People laid off were dealt a crappy hand but they number 1 decided to work for someone else and relinquish that control and these protestors decide to bitch about rich people instead of look for work.

I just don't see how hating on capitalism will help at all. Capitalism affords everyone the opportunity to seek education, expertise and employ yourself.

 

[SHHDlove]

life is unfair. sometimes someone gets the shitty end of the stick and it isnt their fault.

I completely agree, but just because it's not their fault doesn't mean that it's some else's fault. That's where I diverge with the Occupy Wallstreet Movement.

 

[Kak]

I completely agree, but just because it's not their fault doesn't mean that it's some else's fault. That's where I diverge with the Occupy Wallstreet Movement.

Right and it doesn't mean that someone else has the responsibility to take care of them now.

 

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[CarrieW]

what your suggesting (at least to me) that people( that is every single person who works or is capable of working) is capable of becomming a successful business person. totally untrue.

most people "need" jobs. jobs arent a luxury that you can just do without. people need a place to live and food to eat and clothes to wear healthcare ect ect I could go on and on.

back to the parent thing I essentially agreed with what you just posted about their investments and how they could have done things differently. but see the thing with that is also the fact that they didnt go and open a brokerage account and day trade stocks or something. they used a company sponsored employer matched 401k. they have pensions from working. they have savings and properties and they wont be eating cat food. even if you do learn about investing theres no guarantee(never is for anything) and most people who hold jobs and build businesses still contribute to their employer matched 401k's to the max every year.

they both understand they are retiring at a down turn in the market, they will be ok, so they couldnt have been that far off the mark because they didnt lose everything and can still retire. even if its not the retirement they envisioned 10 yrs ago when the economy was still good.


so how is someone who was taught as they were taught and worked as they worked even supposed to know they needed more education. they watched it work over and over again for their parents and their peers parents. you work you retire and then u die. noone told them any different. untill recently if you tried to the men in the little white jakets would come take you away.

someone who was working for a good solid company for 20 yrs who got laid off because of the bad economy did something wrong for working? i dont exactly grasp the thinking behind what you posted. theres no way to know whats going to happen 10-20-30- or even 50 yrs down the road.

I hope every decision you make leads you to where you want to be. and that nothing unexpected ever happens in your life, but knowing what I know I have a feeling that the universe will put you back into your place without my help.

 

[SHHDlove]

I'm trying to grasp what you're saying, so correct me if I make a wrong assumption, Carrie.

What I am not saying is that people need to be super entrepreneurs. There are very few people in this world who were born to do the jobs we are attempting to do. Most people will act like the bloodline of your company. Blood is plentiful in your body, but your F*cked if you don't have any, or worse, treat it poorly.

What I am saying is that every person is responsible for their own decisions, even the ones that have unintended consequences. If I go to a private school and spend $100,000 in debt money to get a degree that doesn't have a great outcome, that was my decision and my responsibility. If I instead go to a community college and get a less prestigious school, that is also my responsibility. If I work a dead end job and make no effort to find other employment, or read books, or continue my education in any way when I had a chance and you get laid off, that's your responsibility, even if I didn't see it.

These people have all my compassion for their situation, but how they are trying to accomplish this simply isn't going to solve the problem.

 

[CarrieW]

i agree with you guys. but where I diverge with your lines of thinking is that to me if your doing well you should want to help others. and countries do have some responsibility towards their citizens. the ones who are well off and the ones who needs help.

if you are making 50billion/million dollars a year, giving 1% or evn 10% to a good cause or to help someone/society in some way then you should do it and I dont think its unreasonable to expect it.

there needs to be programs like welfare and social security and disability and things like that(not run the way they are run now tho lol) not becauase its expected of us to provide it for them but because its the right thing to do.

as someone who has had uncontrollable things happen in my life I am very greatful that not everyone thinks the same selfish ways some people here do. cause id be up shits creek without a boat or a paddle. if you can say nothing has ever happened to you that you didnt have 100% control over you are a lucky few...

I am someone who has had the shitty end of the stick handed to them more times then I can count and I get up and brush myself off and keep going. not to blame other people for my situation. not to expect a handout from anyone, but to succeed and then help other people to realize that they can do it too!

"The measure of a civilization is how it treats its weakest members." Who said this? And is this an acc

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " ~ Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey


"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

 

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[CarrieW]

ok... prewarning this will come off as a victim mentality post to some.... really I dont see myself as a victim but as greatful for the things that have happened because they made me who I am today.

that being said i will give you a few examples of the kinds of things I am talking about.

I chose to have sex when I was 22. yes this was my choice. I got pregnant. accident oops. I decided to continue the pregnancy rather then terminate.

simple choice from here all I thought was ok do I keep the baby or give it up for adoption. I chose to keep the baby.

found out I was pregnant 9/3/99 got pulled out of work put on bedrest 9/23/99. that was it... now still the choices seemed simple. the consequesnces seemed up front and open. have a baby life changes life goes on and I will go back to work after I had the baby.

fast forward 9 months. 10 days after, i went to my work and they showered me with baby gifts and passed my baby around I got a cobra letter in the mail saying my services were no longer required. the entire time I was pregnant I had constant contact with them and noone ever said anything.

so here I am baby no job health insurance ending and terminated 10 days after giving birth. (while still on a paid disability medicial maternity leave)

shortly after the birth and getting fired I started having back issues. and found out not too much after that I have a degeneritive disk condition and will be in pain for the rest of my life. 12 yrs later still unable to return to work, since 1999, had no clue what deciding to keep my baby would do to my life.

most people would think they understand the consequences of having sex... betcha none of them ever had a inkling anything like what happened to me could happen.

ya theres pleanty of decisions in there I could have made differently but you make decisions based the knowledge you have at the time.

it may have changed some things it may have happened later but the point is no matter what my choice was eventually It was likely I would end up right where I am now.

I worked all my life from the time I was 12 yrs old. I quit school and started working full time at 16. I became disabled at 23. because my back is screwed up do to a decision I made does that mean I dont deserve my ssd? I paid into it by busting my a$$ for almost 11 yrs. in my opinion I didnt do anything wrong. and yeah things may have ended up differently had I made different decisions probably. does that make my decision to keep my daughter wrong?

sometimes there is no right or wrong. theres just people. living life. and shit happens. I believe its only right to make accomidations for things that could happen to anyone of us...

 

[77startup]

I was trying my best to be with you carrie but that last posts screams victim mentality.(However you did warn me)

I like that you know it's completely your "fault" you ended up in that situation and you do admit it. However, then you lose points with me (in this discussion) by saying that your situation could "just happen" to anyone. Well I made damn well sure it never happened to me. And when I did make mistakes I paid the price in full.

I grew up in a terrible area and no one ever helped me with anything. I had to punch and scratch and claw my way for everything I ever wanted and so did my parents who ultimately failed the big picture but managed to survive to the next day. This country's aid is to ensure it's citizens won't die and starve on the street, but in no way is it's duty to make sure anyone is "comfortable".

There isn't any money for that, and no one should be forced to create a comfortable life for those who hit the bottom and this is coming from someone who's family started from the bottom. The only end result to this type of "government" is overpopulation, less resources, and a worse quality of life for everyone BUT the bottom %.

 

[CarrieW]

accidental pregnancies can happen to just about everyone. the only sure 100% way to not get pregnant is to not have sex and I am guessing your not a celebate person so your lucky.

and arent you a guy?

so you can never be pregnant.

the being prenant part is my fault and your right I did admit that. the consequesnces that have lasted 12 yrs were the surprise. lol well except for the children part they would be here obviously.

but the bedrest at 4 wks getting fired from a place that had fought to keep me previously due to my value to the company. the fact that they bought me baby gifts and then mailed me a form informing me I was fired was definatley an unforseen consequence and the fact that I had a good job I loved with great health benefits was one of the main reasons I decided to keep her in the first place.

the fact that I became permantly disabled as a result of the pregnancy was not something that even occured to me on any level.

I grew up in a low income house too. there was no car for me when I turned 16. I wasnt even allowed to get my drivers license untill after I was 18 and moved out. there was no college fund no sweet 16 party. when I got my first job I started at 12 yrs old (because we were on food stamps and free lunch) I worked the entire summer and bought all my own school clothes pretty much from then on. I had to start providing for my own needs myself as soon as I started working regularly when I turned 14.

I came from a home of divorce where there were 2 other kids there and my mom worked as a cashier midnights to provide us with a place to live and electricity.

as I said in the begining of my post some may consider it victim mentality post but its my reality. I dont wallow in it I dont apoligise for it and I dont want people to feel sorry for me thats not the point. the point is. as I said and I will say it one more time and then I am done.

sometimes there is no right or wrong. theres just people. living life. and shit happens.

 

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[DeletedUser394]

i agree with you guys. but where I diverge with your lines of thinking is that to me if your doing well you should want to help others. and countries do have some responsibility towards their citizens. the ones who are well off and the ones who needs help.

if you are making 50billion/million dollars a year, giving 1% or evn 10% to a good cause or to help someone/society in some way then you should do it and I dont think its unreasonable to expect it.

This is only a comment regarding the statement that 'rich people should donate to charity' or something similar.

It's exactly by doing well for yourself that you help others. Handing people things they don't deserve is moral perversion. Nobody deserves anything for the simple reason that they exist.

:/ Every single day I begin to realize more and more how awesome ATLAS SHRUGGED is.

(The only people requiring assistance financially (and otherwise) are those with severe physical or mental handicaps.)

I used to be a huge proponent of charity. No longer.

 

[MediaMonty]

CarrieW, that was definitely a hard situation and a tough decision to make.

Situations do happen where there is no clear right or wrong, such as the situation you were in. But whatever decision is made, everybody has to suck it up and accept consequences. Because whenever situations like these come up, it is their fault that they were in that position to begin with. Therefore, they have to accept responbillity for their situation.

Like I said before, you weren't right or wrong for making your decision. Things happen and tough situations come up. But it's how you handle it that makes the difference. As long as the person has good health, anybody out there can have a million ways to improve a tough situation. Complaining and blaming it on the world, government, or corporations will not improve a single thing, and that's why I feel strongly against the protesters.

 

[kahem89]

Could it be as simple as Victim Mentality? I belive so.

also

We are a generation that is thought by young age to thrust in the system. The system will take care of you. Which is obviously not necessarily true.

I don't live in america, but its good for you guys who do. While people are whining hippie style, this give you an edge in business, simply by less competition, and when the victim generation grow up and get some kids to take care of, you might get some cheap labor.:smxF:

My 2 cents.

 

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[CarrieW]

Nobody deserves anything for the simple reason that they exist.

actually I disagree with you on this one.

everyone that exists deserves something. they were brought into this world and should recieve certian things in order to grow and thrive. I dont believe that this responsibility rests soley on the people who brings life but by everyone who enjoys it. at least in civilized society. they have said for a long time it takes a village to raise a child. no man is an island entire of himself.

what you want to give/allow people to recieve is the basic human needs provided for because if god forbid it was for you or someone you loved you would expect nothing less.

I cant believe how cold some of you guys are.

 

[CarrieW]

Complaining and blaming it on the world, government, or corporations will not improve a single thing, and that's why I feel strongly against the protesters.

idk if they are blaming them so much as making the point they shouldnt allow it to be happening in the first place.