Occupy Wallstreet Thoughts

[CarrieW]

that article said nothing about estate tax? either that or I wasnt as awake as I thought when I read it.

what I read about were people wanting to help people and about how there is no specific list of things to fix. that some of the most rich people agree something is wrong and thinks change is good. (and long overdue)


what article did u read?

 

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[GlobalWealth]

that article said nothing about estate tax?

You are correct, there was nothing specific mentioned about estate tax, only that the wealthy need to be taxed more.

It does specifically mention increases in the income tax rates, but increasing the estate tax is a common thread amongst those who want to raise more tax from the wealthy, which was mentioned in the article.

I was only using estate tax as an example of how progressive (estate tax is a progressive tax) taxes don't necessarily increase tax revenue.

 

[oddball]

Peter Schiff.

 

[77startup]

Ironically those 1% inherited their money. I agree there needs to be tweaking, but I don't see how it's the wealthy who need to be attacked when it's the laws of this country that need to be evaluated. Free trade, outsourcing, firing employees to please investors when you're a public company.

But hey go ahead and "tax the hell out of the rich" and watch it make things even worse for the common man as they take their ball and go home. The current rich will stay super rich, and everyone else will be doomed to being broke for life as they close the door of opportunity for everyone else.

But hey at least we will all get labor intensive, 40 hour a week, 30k a year government enforced jobs!

Want to retire before 65? Well kiss that dream good bye.

 

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[CarrieW]

lol noone is talking about an 80% tax on the wealthy wth did that come from.

noone is attacking anyone, they are protesting for change.

 

[Kak]

They are protesting for redistribution. Even more than we already have. Carrie I thought you were done?

 

[CarrieW]

I was done with him twisting my posts into if this is what you think then it means that bullshit and about discussing my previous posts.

I had some new infomation so I posted it.


and 77 I should have quoted your post cause you modified it. my posting is screwed up and I have issues quoting and quick replying and have to go advanced after trying to post initally so you got me. you know what you said.

and to speak to your new post they are trying to change the laws. thats what the movement is about. changing tax laws changing how corporations are treated. how much corporations can "donate" to politicians. wtf do u think its about?

oh thats right mindless hippies lmao

 

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[77startup]

No one is twisting your words or posts around Carrie. I'm simply taking everything that Occupy Wallstreet has publicly stated into account and posting what the end result of that would be. They have called for 80% even 90% taxes on the wealthy. This isn't a simple choice of "help people" if half of the things they demanded went into effect the butterfly effect would be unforgiving on progress.

 

[CarrieW]

that part of my post was referring to the poster that turned my saying society has a responsibility to its citizens to take care of the less fortunate that meant that I was pro population control.

there were other assumptions made from my posts that were very innaccurate as to what I was trying to say.

77 you are the one who twisted my post lol try rereading what youve said in response to me.

 

[77startup]

Carrie that is because you keep stating grandiose dreams that sound amazing but you seriously want them to be government enforced in reality.

How does this work with an exploding population, and limited resources? I'm not trying to pick on you or start a fight but I can't just agree with a nice sounding statement that doesn't have the fine print worked out.

 

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[CarrieW]

Carrie that is because you keep stating grandiose dreams that sound amazing but you seriously want them to be government enforced in reality.

How does this work with an exploding population, land limited resources? I'm sorry but I can't just agree with a nice sounding statement that doesn't have the fine print worked out.

what exactly do you think I want to be government enforced? again your making all kinds of assumptions about things I havent even said? so you dont like what I have to say and you twist it and turn it into a rant that has nothing to do with anything I said?

 

[CarrieW]

Carrie that is because you keep stating grandiose dreams that sound amazing but you seriously want them to be government enforced in reality.

How does this work with an exploding population, land limited resources? I'm sorry but I can't just agree with a nice sounding statement that doesn't have the fine print worked out.

what exactly do you think I want to be government enforced? again your making all kinds of assumptions about things I havent even said? so you dont like what I have to say and you twist it and turn it into a rant that has nothing to do with anything I said?

 

[Kak]

Ok we get it Carrie you are a capitalist that sports anti-capitalism.

You being here is like a vegetarian against vegetables. No one will let you win this one.

 

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[CarrieW]

I dont understand how me supporting change to help fund programs so kids get health care and people who are unemployed can eat and disabled people are cared for makes me anti capitalist.


I am all for making money. building businesses being successful. I am all for that. I dont believe that instuting a corporate tax change or adjusting the federal tax codes is going to put businesses and capitalism out of business.

everyone will be taken care of (as in not living on the street or 12 to a bedroom or starving to have electricity and water) and business will go on as usual and they will learn how to make money to compensate...

life will go on.

however if it continues like this there will be more sick uninsured homeless people living in public parks in tents for reasons other then protesting.

 

[Kak]

And you want ME to pay for that when I do not support subsidizing poorness.

 

[CarrieW]

not you personally.

taxes.

so that means me too.

 

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[PinkCloud]

.....

 

[CarrieW]

as a non coffee drinker I say tea, hot chocolate, soda, and water, ponchos and toilet papers are amoung other necessary items! even sandwhiches or other small transportable food items.

 

[Kak]

You just admitted that you are a socialist. Stealing for the "greater good".

The only government handout I support is unemployment. They already paid their taxes.

 

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[Rickson9]

Human nature will assure a straight line path into a 99% vs 1% scenario 100% of the time. There's no need downplaying either position. The end result is usually a revolution and then everything resets and starts over again. Just be glad that we don't live during revolutionary times. We're fortunate enough to live between revolutions so we have the luxury of talking as if there was a solution. I'm just counting my blessings.

 

[CarrieW]

w/e you say.

if you think what Ive stated makes me a socialist then w/e...

I dont think my belief system can be labled honestly. I dont label myself or other people.

I try not to judge other people. I have compassion for those less fortunate then myself.

I dont believe people who are starving because they cant afford food deserve to starve because you dont feel like its your job to make sure they get food.

that children who never asked to be born not die from illnesses that can be cured with a trip to the doc and $4 worth of antibodics.

that people who are disabled either from birth or from accident or illness dont deserve to live on the street because they cant provide for themselves in a traditional way. or start a business and become an entrepreneur or investor like we do. not everyone is able to do such things.

so I am glad these things are not up to you.

your lucky you never have to face the reality some people have to on a daily basis. just because it hasnt happened to you doesnt mean it couldnt have.

its not that I think that the 1% should pay for the 99% I would imagine 70% or more of that 99 are able to provide for themselves just fine.

I dont think thats theres anything wrong with readjusting the way things are done now in order to fix what the problems are and still keep things fair for everyone.

I am not saying take all their money and give it to the poor people but readjust the way things are done so that certian things are taken care of in a way most people can live with. hell I bet if they got the shit right in the first place without all the coruption things would be just fine and there would be no protests as this shit would be taken care of already!

and just fyi if your so rich and you dont like it here no more when they are done adjusting shit... leave! at least you have a choice! go to a country where the rich live like kings and everyone else lives without food and clean water and starves to death in huts and tents as you ignore it. there are places like that you know.

I personally dont want to live in that place. and most americans dont either.

 

[CarrieW]

I am on disability I paid my taxes too for years before I became disabled. and my parents and their parents before them. and my husband pays more then I get every month...so do his parents and probably my kids will too when they grow up.

same with people who are born disabled. or people who are currently in need of food stamps or medical help or unemployment for those unemployed longer then their states provide coverage for.

most of them are people who have worked and paid taxes their whole lives. or their parents did (in the case or ssdi)

mostly everyone pays tax on everything they buy.

im not blaming businesses and wall street but the laws and tax codes and everything about most of the system as it is today. like I said its not about 1 thing or another. its about fixing shit thats wrong.

while you may think theres nothing wrong ALOT of people do.

 

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[77startup]

what exactly do you think I want to be government enforced? again your making all kinds of assumptions about things I havent even said? so you dont like what I have to say and you twist it and turn it into a rant that has nothing to do with anything I said?

So then it should remain a persons choice if they want to help out others and the government should stay out of it?

If so I have no problem with that and have no idea why we were arguing because that's exactly what I'm saying lol

 

[Anon3587x]

I would walk out there holding a 1% sign pretending to be on their side, with a t-shirt and hat advertising my business.

haha

 

[GlobalWealth]

I dont believe people who are starving because they cant afford food deserve to starve because you dont feel like its your job to make sure they get food.

I always find this argument interesting. We hear it quite frequently actually. While I am sure this seems callous, in reality it's not my responsibility to take care of someone who is starving. Just like if I were starving, its not your responsibility to take care of me.

I am not against personal charity by any means. If you see someone hungry, take it upon yourself to feed them. Many churches and non-profits do just this. But when you take from me against my will to feed someone else, it is stealing - plain and simple.

There are solutions to this problem, but demanding that someone else pay for it is not the solution.

so I am glad these things are not up to you.

Unfortunately in most cases, you are correct. It isn't up to you, or me, or whoever it is you may be ranting at. And this is the crux of the problem. It isn't voluntary. And it is a completely inefficient way of doing things.

its not that I think that the 1% should pay for the 99% I would imagine 70% or more of that 99 are able to provide for themselves just fine.

I would say virtually 100% of the 99'rs are perfectly able to care for themselves. But many of them prefer not too. In the US today 47 million people are on food stamps. 47M!!!!! that is nearly 1 of every 6 people. It may be you, maybe not. But I guarantee you that you know someone on food stamps who is perfectly able to feed himself without the handout, but yet somehow manages to get it anyway.

Sure, there are people out there starving. But don't tell me it is my duty to feed them. I may chose to do so, but you don't have the right to thrust your morals upon me or anyone else.

I dont think thats theres anything wrong with readjusting the way things are done now in order to fix what the problems are and still keep things fair for everyone.

Ah, here's the socialism we've been waiting for. The fairness issue. It's only fair, you don't need that much, blah blah blah.

and just fyi if your so rich and you dont like it here no more when they are done adjusting shit... leave! at least you have a choice! go to a country where the rich live like kings and everyone else lives without food and clean water and starves to death in huts and tents as you ignore it. there are places like that you know.

I'm an American. Check my location. But guess what? The rest of the world isn't the 3rd world your sunday school teacher told you it was. I've traveled to dozens of countries on 4 continents and I've yet to see this fictional land you speak of.

Does it exist? Probably. But that doesn't mean I'm going to live there. And there are lots of options available to those looking for something a bit different.

But the real problem is best summed up by Margaret Thatcher, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money".

 

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[Kak]

I am not saying dont help people. I love the whole micro business loan idea for citizens of poverty stricken countries. These people can start little businesses for as little as 50 bucks.

I also donate over 5k per year to charities that I think are good causes. MUCH BETTER CAUSES than paying for a pothead's dinner.

Get off your high horse. You are not a better person because you can vote away other people's money. THE ONLY WAY this would ever be fair is if there would be a flat percentage tax on everyone. Then see how the lower middle class parents that are putting their kids through college feel about paying for weed smoking hector's filet Mignon at the grocery store.

 

[Anon3587x]

and just fyi if your so rich and you dont like it here no more when they are done adjusting shit... leave! at least you have a choice! go to a country where the rich live like kings and everyone else lives without food and clean water and starves to death in huts and tents as you ignore it. there are places like that you know.

I hate when people say this sort of thing when I voice my opinion about certain policies.

If I was to reply with the equal intention that you had when saying this, I would say, If you can't provide for yourself, how about you just die.

doh /:

 

[77startup]

Likwid24 you are correct =)

 

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[Likwid24]

I think it's about time you guys stop worrying about occupy wallstreet and start worrying about Occupying the time you all spend on this thread to execute Your Fastlane Plan! Way too much time being spent on this thread. I haven't read through this crap since the first page because I'm too busy trying to get where I want to go.

 

[CarrieW]

Ill go one person at a time cause I cant figure out how to quote differnet people in 1 post.

Originally Posted by CarrieW
I dont think thats theres anything wrong with readjusting the way things are done now in order to fix what the problems are and still keep things fair for everyone.
Ah, here's the socialism we've been waiting for. The fairness issue. It's only fair, you don't need that much, blah blah blah.

see this is where your misunderstanding what I am saying and I think its here where the problem lies I am not saying it would be fair to take 10-20% of 5% or even 1% as a straight your rich tax. thats not what I would say is fair.

what I think is fair is everyone pays the same % reguardless of if its earned income or capital gains or corporate profits. thats the only way its truly fair. only have the same things needed to survive as whatever entity you are that can be deducted as a write off.

its not fair to say how much anyone else has. or to say here you have more so share with the class hell if I earned more I want more. actually screw want, I deserve more.

so if you can build a business making 10trillion dollars a year wonderful. pay the same % of tax everyone else does.

reform/rebuild the tax system or better yet start from frickin scratch to get rid of the rediciolus spending on shit we dont really need and spend it on things that makes the country a better/safer/cleaner/more productive place to live for everyone.