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My View on Videogames

RogueInnovation

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First thing: People may cr#p on what you are saying because what you are saying isn't "socially accepted" but thats just inexperience. There is always a crossover from one skill to another at high levels. And whilst its easy to dismiss someones expertise in something, I feel it is more entreprenuerial to look for the strengths.

Ok, so I'm trying to process this idea of halo vs chess.

I'm an expert at chess and swordsmanship, so lets think this out.
So at the beginning of chess, I have all the variations on openings infront of me, and there are different schools of thought on opening strategy. There are schools of thought that the games choices are only correct or incorrect when viewed in the context of the opponent you are facing. Then there are classic views which emphasize no wasted movement, fast development, and undeniable utility of certain openings, in a sense by using foundationally sound opennings you can penetrate into the mid to end game with less of a struggle, removing this "first move" innertia, by adopting strategies with good momentum and coherent structure. Then you have hyper modern styles, which do NOT rush to control squares or pieces, but hold off, so that they can undermine weaknesses of the opponent in a more flexible way and remain agile.

In swordplay, Musashi often talks about the spirit, and is according to legends surrounding him, have been able to inspire such fear in enemies before a battle from his unwavering focus that they would flee for their lives.
His last fight, or one of his last fights, he fought a dualist with a piece of a boat oar, the dualist ran at him weilding two blades and he approached directly and struck him once in the head, killing him instantly, as the blades of the opponent merely scuffed what he was wearing at the time. He felt such contempt for dualests that he knew from that point on, that there was no man, that was ever going to defeat him. And so fearless and justified he kinda left dualing behind.
Swordplay is all about anticipation, about what you percieve over what you see and take for granted. It is also about perception, to feel like you are the eagle, against the rat, rather than a theif hiding from an enemy that surrounds you. It is about turning your weaknesses into strength.

Musashi often spoke of how a fast movement "captures" a mans spirit, and that you should not err, but plunge in, to chase at the edges of his spirit, until the egdes become the heart.

In chess, the correlation is that efficient movement always does multiple things at once, it attacks edges and fringe weaknesses so that the "hands" of a piece (the amount of things it can do at one time) being occupied expose weaknesses to be forced. What do you prefer, to lose that pawn or to lose that minor piece (bishop or knight)?
And as a player facing this you have to minimise the bleeding this inflicts otherwise, the opponent will get piece harmony and tear you to shreds. You could think you are losing just a pawn, but maybe it turns out that allowing him one piece allows him another, and then you are too short handed to defend another, lack the threat to stop another kind of attack and the dam walls break from the pressure that one loss caused.

In gaming, I am certain these things can exist also, however, I think it requires active participation to see any such correlation.

You say that, gaming requires a team effort, something like
- simple achievable goals
- good chemistry
- agility
- quickly responding to changing factors

Where this may differ from business initially is in the speed. Businesses happen over months and years, and require that your identity be in line with the response times for opportunities and that you utilise your assets, rather than defeat yourself and flounder around doing stupid things. But I'm sure that most of the gaming preparation can be tweaked, reorganised and assessed strategically before you begin, by running through scenarios, sharing experiences, an getting on the same page.

So I agree, there are similarities... But, to win over people on its merits, you'd have to turn gaming's weakness into a strength. You'd need to percieve past something, people only see and overlook. You would need to find a way that it can enhance your reaction time in business and untie your hands, so that you make less sacrifices and prevent your spirit from being overwhelmed by making that plunging attack.


Could your book be interesting?
Maybe, so long as it didn't get too fast and into too much gaming jargon.
You have to respect that business IS different, and you need to employ these new skills first, before you advise their utility.

So if you keep its goals light, and keep ON TRACK to explain something that does matter or relate effectively to business, then it should work.

Just avoid pushing the metaphor TOO FAR.
But as far as giving us all a new angle on business from a game perspective, I like it.


From a business standpoint though, I'd research your target audience, which is most likely those who work IN the gaming industry, or gamers that are getting into business.
You wouldn't want to target ceo's of corporations, or mom and pops, or those who are really struggling financially, because they require very different tacts to get right an are outside of your sphere of influence.

But lets say you create a good book, and you sell it at conventions, online, etc etc etc, it could, if you target it right, build a stable audience.
But, I imagine its going to be a bit hit or miss.


Maybe I wouldn't write it right away. Maybe I'd start researching. Taking down interviews, and research the idea. I mean no one wants to hear a guy thats unresearched drone on about the merits of gaming in an attempt to convince himself he can succeed. They want to be entertained and to get what they pay for and have a few take aways.

You don't have to crack the davinci code or anything, but I would suggest being diligent and thorough in your research of your market, your experts, and the top 3-5 beneficial correlations you can identify and detail.


As far as a biz plan, I'd get at least three interviews with, chess masters, business men (who have success you can tell your readers about), and swordsmen (some alive but you could do dead ones). And maybe interview a few people who work in the gaming industry.

I'd also wanna get specific on exactly what things your book will focus on.
So I'd get you to put up a list of candidate cross over skills.

The simplest and clearest would be what you sculpt interviews around, while the rest you'd research independently and either make the choice to put in or cut out.

After you got your interviews back, you'd need some clear and engaging writing, some themes, and you'd want your market research on customers to guide your hand in the creation of the content.


All the best dude, its an idea at least
Good luck


Btw,
I can't really play games, they suck me in too much, so I just watch other people play for a bit and move on. Binging out can totally leave you with a hangover :p

I like them though, I just don't like things with repetitive or irrational tasks that sponge your time.

Board games like monopoly are annoying because, its just a facade, no depth, so it just propogates views you already have.

I like to get my views shaken up, so I really dug games like the last of us, it was fun, to the point, and had amazing story telling.

One day I'll play games again, but only the best, because yeah, taking something away from a piece of gaming art, is a real thing.

If you could give people some great take aways and not waste their time.
That sounds nice.
 
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daivey

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the issue with threads like these is people read them and then think if you sit and play a video game for 4 hours - look mom, I'm taking action.

In life, anything you do requires your mind to process information and therefore any thread/topic can be created about ANY activity in which someone tries to convince others of the positive effects it creates in someones life.

There have been a lot of studies on the effects of gaming, but I think that for the most part the reality is gaming is a waste of time. Whether you do it for an hour and "focus on it" and are pro or try to use the "team building" experience to translate to real life is just a load of BS. TV is a waste of time also, however through TV you can learn mannerisms and behaviors, absorb cultural differences, learn social cues, learn to understand satire, comedy, and story telling -things you need in real life. On a fast paced FPS, you can claim you learn things - but most of the things you learn are how to remember maps. Which corner to come around blazing. Twitch reflexes and head shots. You could have the best team in the world with regards to communication, but if you don't have the twitch reflex you will lose to a team with mediocre communication but better game skills/fast twitch.

So saying that video gaming can help you become a better entrepreneur is like saying sex will help you become a better entrepreneur. OR basketball. Or golf. Or cooking. Or ANYTHING. Anything in life can help you become a better entrepreneur. Which is true. I just wouldn't get to caught up on the idea and spend to much time. if you think a real life sport is the same as a video game in terms of the leadership aspects, I think the video game has mushed your brains.

Lastly, how many top CEOs in the world are avid gamers. That's the million dollar question. And Im not talking CEO of joe schmoes bakers. Im talking fortune 500.
 

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Your score is your bank account balance

Yup, that's considered GOLD. Another measure would be a "TIME" score... the amount of time you own in each day with the max score being 86,400 seconds. Another could be a "TRIBE" score... the # of good people in your life that empower you versus disempower you. And finally, some quantitative measure on health, perhaps an 1 thru 10 measure, and as you pursue the other items, the HEALTH measure can take a hit.
 

Dark Water

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So much input and varied thought, I appreciate all of the feedback. I respect everyone's opinion and because of the nature of the topic I think everyone is right in their own way. Those that think video games are a time sink and waste and your time can be better put to other things - you're absolutely right. Those that play the RIGHT video games, for the RIGHT amount of time, in a CONTROLLED manner - one hour per day or less - I think there are benefits if you take it serious.

As MJ said, treating life as a video game is probably the best way to view it. This link, which I've seen on this forum before, probably describes it best: http://oliveremberton.com/2014/life-is-a-game-this-is-your-strategy-guide/

I was merely pointing out that certain games require teamwork, communication, etc. with strangers upon meeting. By failing to cooperate, you really see who loses and who wins at the end. It requires one to get over personal limitations (I can't / don't want to play that role) but having to anyways for the greater good of the team.


Yup, that's considered GOLD. Another measure would be a "TIME" score... the amount of time you own in each day with the max score being 86,400 seconds. Another could be a "TRIBE" score... the # of good people in your life that empower you versus disempower you. And finally, some quantitative measure on health, perhaps an 1 thru 10 measure, and as you pursue the other items, the HEALTH measure can take a hit.

This could be the basis for a self-published book. I think the idea is present and people have heard of it before, much like you described. But has a detailed solution been presented to the masses? There are some things like websites and apps, such as HabitRPG, that I found after searching. But instead of providing a direct solution, maybe provide an adjustable framework that gives people the power to do it themselves. Basically a self-help book with the typical 7 pillars of life (mental, physical, family, spiritual, fitness, etc etc etc) in great detail targeted at males in the 16-25 range looking to improve their life. Just food for thought.

On a side note, I don't think TV is comparable to the types of games I'm talking about. Merely because of the level of engagement each requires - you can leisurely engage TV or be focused 100% - you're still getting the same thing out of it. If you aren't 100% engaged in certain games, with each and every micro action having intent behind it, then you will lose. And you will learn from that loss, that it takes a little bit more than what you're doing, to compete.

The only real aspect of video games I'm referring to is the competition to win, which is similar to business. People do everything in their power to win, but why? Its only a video game. Its human nature to be competitive. The same competitive spirit is used to win a game as it is to succeed in business: so why can't they be compared? Its not what's actually being done that matters, its the fact that the same type of human willpower and concentration is exerted. And I think when one wins a very competitive match up it creates a piece of positive momentum of "winning" that rolls over into other areas of life.
 
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SBS.95

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This thread is very timely... As I have an Xbox 360 and Xbox One that I haven't used in about 8 months (apart for streaming videos from my computer), and even then, rarely used them.

BUT today is black friday and those suckers just dropped the price of Titanfall, arguably Xbox's best game, from $50 to $12... it's tempting haha!

The thing is, even when I play, I never play that much because I get impatient. So that's a good thing, and I never got addicted to video games.

This deal is pretty cool though :nailbiting:

I'll give you $100 cash for it.

.......Oh wait, this ISN'T Craigslist.
Back to reselling.

Have not read replies but is playing video games a lot for fun a waste of time? I think so. I play games, but I do it for that cold cash. YouTube and such. There are some professional gamers that make HIGH six figures and a couple who makes 7 figures a year. One of them was actually just in the New York Times.

That's the exception, not the rule. For every professional gamer making $100,000+ annually, there are a million jobless 18-year-olds with no future sitting at home playing whatever the newest Call of Duty is. It's really no different than trying to argue that we should all learn to play football because there are professional football players making millions of dollars.

You can make money doing anything, but I would argue that advising people to go the video game route, regardless of any success you may have had in the industry, is telling a bunch of already prone-to-laziness people "Hey, don't feel bad about spending hours gaming, it's for business."
 

daivey

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So much input and varied thought, I appreciate all of the feedback. I respect everyone's opinion and because of the nature of the topic I think everyone is right in their own way. Those that think video games are a time sink and waste and your time can be better put to other things - you're absolutely right. Those that play the RIGHT video games, for the RIGHT amount of time, in a CONTROLLED manner - one hour per day or less - I think there are benefits if you take it serious.

As MJ said, treating life as a video game is probably the best way to view it. This link, which I've seen on this forum before, probably describes it best: http://oliveremberton.com/2014/life-is-a-game-this-is-your-strategy-guide/

I was merely pointing out that certain games require teamwork, communication, etc. with strangers upon meeting. By failing to cooperate, you really see who loses and who wins at the end. It requires one to get over personal limitations (I can't / don't want to play that role) but having to anyways for the greater good of the team.




This could be the basis for a self-published book. I think the idea is present and people have heard of it before, much like you described. But has a detailed solution been presented to the masses? There are some things like websites and apps, such as HabitRPG, that I found after searching. But instead of providing a direct solution, maybe provide an adjustable framework that gives people the power to do it themselves. Basically a self-help book with the typical 7 pillars of life (mental, physical, family, spiritual, fitness, etc etc etc) in great detail targeted at males in the 16-25 range looking to improve their life. Just food for thought.

On a side note, I don't think TV is comparable to the types of games I'm talking about. Merely because of the level of engagement each requires - you can leisurely engage TV or be focused 100% - you're still getting the same thing out of it. If you aren't 100% engaged in certain games, with each and every micro action having intent behind it, then you will lose. And you will learn from that loss, that it takes a little bit more than what you're doing, to compete.

The only real aspect of video games I'm referring to is the competition to win, which is similar to business. People do everything in their power to win, but why? Its only a video game. Its human nature to be competitive. The same competitive spirit is used to win a game as it is to succeed in business: so why can't they be compared? Its not what's actually being done that matters, its the fact that the same type of human willpower and concentration is exerted. And I think when one wins a very competitive match up it creates a piece of positive momentum of "winning" that rolls over into other areas of life.

what are the benefits of playing the "right" video game for an hour a day or less? what is the "right" video game?
 

Dark Water

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what are the benefits of playing the "right" video game for an hour a day or less? what is the "right" video game?

Read the first post and numerous others in the thread.
 
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biophase

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I can't help but think ... I am taking a round ball ... and sticking it through a round hoop ... over and over again.

Surely there must be something better to do with my time ...?

Yep.

I'd rather have sex...

LOL Sounds about the same... ;)
 

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Also a hardcore gamer. Diamond in Starcraft, ruled every BF3 and MW2 server I joined easily, thousands of hours logged even during very difficult undergraduate and graduate programs. First game I ever bought was Mechwarrior 2:31st Century Combat when I was 10, but I'd had Commander Keen, Duke Nukem I and II, Moster Bash, etc. way before that. Video games were a hobby that spanned my whole life, and to which I devoted a huge chunk of time. I loved them and defended them.

Here's my current view on video games:

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/need-more-time-make-your-day-25-hours-long.51342/

since the time of authoring that post, not one phone, tablet, computer, or laptop in my house has had any games installed, and I no longer own a TV set. One year clean.
 
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jesseissorude

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This is so strange, I JUST made the following post in another thread, but I think its more appropriate here:

----------------------------------------
... I have NO problem with videogames, and in fact respect the industry a lot for how it pushes technological boundaries in a way that only the military could a couple decades ago (EE nerd here).

That said, I sold my console because I realized that I was using games as a surrogate for real life. I was levelling up in a fantasy at the expense of levelling up in reality.
tumblr_mky3f5QZKT1rsl308o1_500.png

Plus, I was wasting hours when there were other equally as fun, but more productive, things I could do. I tried good old-fashioned willpower (I pride myself in being very self-disciplined), but it was just one of those things that kept sucking me in. Eventually, I realized I couldn't rely on willpower or scheduling time for this, and got rid of the temptation.

Oh well, GTA was fun as hell while it lasted. I'll play video games again someday, but not while it competes with my goals.
----------------------------------------
 
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biophase

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My take on this whole discussion. Obviously, any activity can be overdone, but let's just talk about playing games in moderation and what benefits they may have.

Sports video games - I've never played hockey or soccer in my life, but I know all their rules from playing video games. The first time I stepped on a golf course when I was 21, I understood what each club did, knew most of the rules of golf. Take football, I understand what an illegal formation is because I had a football video game in which I could create my own plays. I can see a 2 deep zone, man to man defense, etc... all due to a video game.The same can be said for when I watch any sport on TV. Guess where I learned how to play and watch these sports?

Guess how I figured out what adding an intake, exhaust and headers did to my car (yes, I know the actual hp increase in games is exaggerated? I actually learned alot about track driving from Grand Turismo. This was before I was able to afford a nice car.

Most point is that some video games expand your curiosity of real world things. If you are a young kid, you are not old enough to do many of the things that you can do in video games. Now that I'm older and I look back, many of those games gave me a great foundation of knowledge on real life things.

I recently got an Xbox with Connect. I may get one for my dad who is 73 because he likes to play tennis but obviously cannot play real tennis, but the Connect with surely get him exercise at home.

Business video games - Many games include some form of business, or making strategic decisions with resources and money. To upgrade a character you need to decide where and what to spend you money, experience on. There is some thinking going onto how you use your resources. This may sound stupid to us as older adults, but when you are 10 years old where else to do you make these types of decisions in real life?

RPGs, FPS and MMOG - There is some much information in these games and we must see it, understand it and make decisions. Alot of this shapes your mind. Do you ever see a 6 year old get his character stuck in a room or in a maze? He will figure it out. Isn't that what you want? Games today are so complex that it truly takes alot of thinking to finish them.

And here is a totally different perspective on perceiving time wasters... Things are only a waste of your own time based on your own life. If you think they are a waste of your time, they probably are. But that thought does not extend to other people. You'd probably never say that working out is a waste of time to someone. But what if the person worked out 4 hours a day and his financial life was in shambles? To the CEO who works 14 hours a day, you may tell him to sit down and watch some TV. What about a dad playing a video game with his son?
 
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This was me when I was like 13 years old lol. I would sit in world one and turn 100k into 10mil in a few days just for fun. Would use an autotyper (outsourcing) and buy items in bulk and resell them in small quantities. It was kind of like wholesaling merchandise in a sense. This was one of the first things that helped me realize that I wanted to be an entrepreneur someday. Good times playing that game..
 

biophase

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what are the benefits of playing the "right" video game for an hour a day or less? what is the "right" video game?

I don't know what games are out there right now. But if I were to get someone started in video games from nothing, I'd say play some Tetris, or Simon (the memory game).

You guys remember this game ? Can you finish it?

http://my.ign.com/atari/adventure
 
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AllenCrawley

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Mattie

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So saying that video gaming can help you become a better entrepreneur is like saying sex will help you become a better entrepreneur.
Hmm... :) I just opened a e-book store on Second Life. I figure what's the difference if a sim has 33,000 traffic and some of the other sites I post on. I put my book covers on the wall a link straight to my books with just a click. Advertising is cheap on there and goes around the whole world. Lots of sims with high traffic, advertising flashes everywhere on the grid. Advertising is easy on there. If I buy a piece of land you network it with the grid.

When I look back in 2007-2012 that's exactly what I learned to be is in an entrepreneur on the grid. Everyone on there is basically an entrepreneur running a business. Next few months should be nice to see whether I sell any ebooks in there. I don't have to play the game. I just know to set it up and no different than posting on e-book sites. I know professionals that started on there and sold books and even teaching. Right now I just want to make the most of every avenue.

I suppose virtual worlds are different than regular games, but it's just another social platform for me just like twitter, facebook, google, tumblr, and just link them to my website and social media through there. What difference does it make where my books are there 24 hours a day? Less competition.
 

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Arguing the usefulness of video games is almost like arguing politics ore religion with most people. They've made up their mind and that's that.

I've gone into it in more detail before, but I'll just say that like everything in life, video gaming (and sports) offer certain opportunities and benefits that the vast majority of people never take advantage of or even notice. Most people are going to waste their lives no matter what they're doing with their time, and a few will find a way to learn hugely valuable lessons no matter what.

I'll argue that games offer some opportunities that are much harder to replicate in other settings, but are they the absolute best possible use of time? Of course not, but most people aren't weighing an hour of games versus an hour of working on their fastlane. Once someone realizes that they can do more with their lives, then maybe it's time to put the games away except for some occasional entertainment, but until then, games may help them get to that point.
 
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daivey

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Arguing the usefulness of video games is almost like arguing politics ore religion with most people. They've made up their mind and that's that.

I've gone into it in more detail before, but I'll just say that like everything in life, video gaming (and sports) offer certain opportunities and benefits that the vast majority of people never take advantage of or even notice. Most people are going to waste their lives no matter what they're doing with their time, and a few will find a way to learn hugely valuable lessons no matter what.

I'll argue that games offer some opportunities that are much harder to replicate in other settings, but are they the absolute best possible use of time? Of course not, but most people aren't weighing an hour of games versus an hour of working on their fastlane. Once someone realizes that they can do more with their lives, then maybe it's time to put the games away except for some occasional entertainment, but until then, games may help them get to that point.

to be honest, I haven't made my mind up on anything. but I always have to play devils advocate when someone comes in to talk about something like that and claim how it can help someoone become successful.

is the OP a multimillionaire from his gaming addiction? better yet, what real life insights has he learned from playing halo?

1 hour per day is 365 hours per year or just over 15 days in 1 year. That's about 4% of a year, spent gaming. In 24 years, you've spent 1 year of your life gaming.
 

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what are the benefits of playing the "right" video game for an hour a day or less? what is the "right" video game?

I read somewhere that Portal 2 helped with brain function more than Lumoscity did. So I'd venture a guess and throw those types of puzzle games in that category.

Kerbal Space Program also.
 

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I just to play poker and can totally relate to what all of you are thinking.

My view is: There is a HUGE market for entertainment. Most people will go for that to distract themself from their boring life. That's why games and films/TV/ sports etc. are so successful.

My point of view now (I quited poker 2 years ago):

You can learn important skills with playing games. If you are really really passionate about a game (which has a lot of players/fans) and you have the abillity to reach the Top 0,1% then go for it. Nothing is better than making your hobby a profession.

Otherwise:

Play the game and CREATE VALUE!

For Poker that means for example "Be a coach" or create Learning Videos.
Try to help as many people as possible.
Build your own brand. etc.

Basicly follow the 5 comandments form MJ's book if you want to go in that direction.

Otherwise I agree that playing games is mostly a waste of time and you can spend it much better.
 
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Even Steven

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I'm not going to lie, my entrepreneurial spirit probably stems from spending too much time in middle school playing RuneScape. Trading resources, taking advantage of different prices based on world/location. I'm not saying it gave me advanced insight into copywriting, but basic concepts were there. Supply and demand, competitive monopoly, etc. I didn't know it at the time, but nearly everything I'm learning and applying nowadays can be related in someway to those days buying raw lobsters from fishermen for 100gp each, trading them to cooks for cooked lobsters, and then selling cooked lobsters to fighters for 150gp each.

It even grew into my first hustle of pop-tart arbitrage in HS. Good times.

This makes me think of an "aha!" moment that I had while playing World of Warcraft one day. Someone had published a WoW gold-making guide for free at a gaming blog. I started working it and was making quite a bit of gold. It was a bit euphoric for a little while, seeing all of the money arriving in my inbox, but after a few weeks, I realized I was spending hours a day to make it work. It was a consistent but VERY manual process.

Anyway, I remember all of a sudden one day the realization hit me: "why am I busting my a$$ to make money in a game when I could be doing it in real life?"
It was right after that that I started working on a mobile app (zombie shooter) with my friend. It fell through in the end, but it taught me a little and gave me a boost of confidence to see how much I was able to accomplish.

@Choate, I see your point, but I don't think that's unique to video games. Any arena of life where you push yourself to your limits will teach you something about life, business, etc. I remember when I was training for a half-marathon (hadn't done a lot of running up to that point), I had a bad habit of starting out too fast. When I realized how important pacing was, it taught me not only about pacing yourself in a race, but in any long-term goal. You just can't run flat out all the time.
 

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Anyway, I remember all of a sudden one day the realization hit me: "why am I busting my a$$ to make money in a game when I could be doing it in real life?"
That was the moment when you shifted from consumer to producer.

Unfortunately I was too caught up playing that I didn't see the opportunities. Instead of selling gold, I was buying it.
 

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