[RANT]: Raise the minimum wage! This is so unfair!

[DayIFly]

I didn´t say that, maybe you should read again. I answered your question already. If there was a definite model, there wouldn´t be so much controversy about it.

If you don´t understand, then start the youtube video that @Raoul Duke posted and listen for the first 20 seconds.

 

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[Charnell]

You're right, my mistake. You said it was basic. Could you help me understand better what you mean? I'm not trying to say you're wrong and I'm right, I just want to learn what happens next.

 

[SeanyHang]

In that same respect, no business which depends on free traffic from the Google SERPS has any right to be in business.

In any event, I parodied the picture for your Fastlane enjoyment.

View attachment 8777

Shared this on FB.. A few friends shared it from me and one of them had SO MANY butthurt people responding to it, crying over how most poor people are born poor..blahblahblah. People are F*cking stupid.

 

[BlokeInProgress]

Just an observation (again just my 2 cents):

Minimum
got free time
lots of complain
no time to move on and do something about their complains

Median
got less free time
less time to complain
medium time to move on and do something about their complains

CEO
little to no free time
little complains
fastest time to move on and do something about their complains

P.S.
I do apologize guys but I really just wanted to let this out, I dunno why, but every time I look at the CEO image, it reminds me of Mr. Pringles

 

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[liquidglass]

When McDonalds is forced to pay employees $12/hour instead of $8/hour, they will find ways to cut costs. It will be more economically viable for them to invest in technology that outsources employees. No one will take your order, you will use a touch screen. We have cars that can drive themselves, you don't think we can have a machine that lowers shredded potatoes into a fryer for 30 seconds?

EXACTLY! That's something I've said multiple times when people talk about raising the wage to some unreasonable number. It's simple math, if over 5 years I would pay employees X and I can research and create machines for the same amount of money I would do it, cutting employees present on a shift from 10 (assumed) to 3. Which would be much more profitable in the long run.

People demanding higher wages for the same effort are pricing themselves out of the market.

Then there are the people that say they'll work harder for more money, right, if you were going to do that you wouldn't be at a minimum wage job. It's like Napoleon Hill says "Too many people want the stove to give them fire without first adding wood, they say they'll add the wood after they get heat"

Some idiot might spend the extra money on an xbox. Another one might use it to create something of value because he's not an idiot but for whatever reason has found himself in a ditch in his life. It could reduce employee turnover, thus reducing long term training costs.

Unfortunately the first idiot you're referring to is the majority of people upset about the min. wage. They want to live large without having to try any harder. In fact I have seen numerous employees that have a nicer car than I do or a bigger tv, etc. Not because I don't have the money, but because I choose to spend it on my business and not on materialistic things. They want more money for more stuff, plain and simple.

When Roosevelt said "living wage" he literally meant enough to eat, house, and clothe themselves. He however, didn't envision people trying to live in houses they couldn't afford, eating at places they couldn't afford, and wearing a pair of shoes that's $300 or a shirt that's $200. When he was president there were too many people starving (literally) and needed enough to get by. That is what he meant, not the xbox or luxuries of life. He wanted to give people a chance to get a foot hold so they could pull themselves up not be pulled up by those above them.

For fun here are some more of his quotes that should elaborate that point:

"Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds."

"It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something."

"It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach."

"It isn't sufficient just to want - you've got to ask yourself what you are going to do to get the things you want."

Seems like he wanted people to pull themselves up rather than take another quote he made out of context and use it (eg: facebook viral post) as the sole basis for being paid higher wages for mediocre work.

 

[SBS.95]

Unfortunately the first idiot you're referring to is the majority of people upset about the min. wage. They want to live large without having to try any harder. In fact I have seen numerous employees that have a nicer car than I do or a bigger tv, etc. Not because I don't have the money, but because I choose to spend it on my business and not on materialistic things. They want more money for more stuff, plain and simple.

When Roosevelt said "living wage" he literally meant enough to eat, house, and clothe themselves. He however, didn't envision people trying to live in houses they couldn't afford, eating at places they couldn't afford, and wearing a pair of shoes that's $300 or a shirt that's $200. When he was president there were too many people starving (literally) and needed enough to get by. That is what he meant, not the xbox or luxuries of life. He wanted to give people a chance to get a foot hold so they could pull themselves up not be pulled up by those above them.

This is very important to consider. I remember reading an article that defined what the typical "impoverished" American's life is like. Something like 60-75% of "poor" Americans have a car, a washer/dryer, a 40" or larger flat screen, a smartphone, and a desktop computer or laptop.

The idea of what you need to live has changed greatly. A living wage is now supposed to cover luxuries like car payments, electronics, and a $100+/month AT&T plan. A damn lot more than the roof over head + food in stomach that was meant to define "living wage". Now in order for one to be "living" they need enough to cover the cable bill so they can keep up with those wacky Kardashians.

 

[GravyBoat]

The simplest delta between the Slowlane/Sidewalk lifestyle and the Fastlane lifestyle is:

Not sure about this infographic sir, unless the "CEO" started the company and OWNS the company himself. I know many CEO's that make $200,000/year

 

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[twdavis]

Not sure about this infographic sir, unless the "CEO" started the company and OWNS the company himself. I know many CEO's that make $200,000/year

True

 

[GravyBoat]

Shared this on FB.. A few friends shared it from me and one of them had SO MANY butthurt people responding to it, crying over how most poor people are born poor..blahblahblah. People are F*cking stupid.

This is the reason why I don't participate in social media on a personal level.

 

[Kak]

Social media is for sheep. I deleted my facebook.

 

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[SeanyHang]

Social media is for sheep. I deleted my facebook.

I actually like Facebook and the false sense of popularity it gives me. hahaha

 

[Kak]

I actually like Facebook and the false sense of popularity it gives me. hahaha

I categorize things in two ways... Distractions and Foundations...

Facebook goes solidly in the distraction category.

 

[GravyBoat]

I categorize things in two ways... Distractions and Foundations...

Facebook goes solidly in the distraction category.

As the "theme" here, this applies to the 99%. The one percent realize Facebook is the greatest marketing tool ever built to this day.

 

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[SeanyHang]

Facebook goes solidly in the distraction category.

There's no debating that - agreed 100%

I also completely agree with you @GravyBoat ... It's amazing how much your world opens up when you first learn about marketing, especially Internet marketing and entrepreneurship in general. When I was 17 back in 07 and first got onto FB I saw it as ONE THING :A way to stay connected with friends. As I've gotten a little older and learned about starting a business I see FB and other social media outlets ESPECIALLY Instagram as being pure gold for marketing purposes. Sometimes I'll bring this topic up with my friends who I guess you could classify as having the "slowlane" mindset, and they have no idea wtf I'm talking about - they still have that mindset I had in 07.

Idk why I just wrote you guys that epic tale about my coming of age.. but uh...

 

[Kak]

As the "theme" here, this applies to the 99%. The one percent realize Facebook is the greatest marketing tool ever built to this day.

Yes. I'm talking about posting stupid drinking pictures, talking to people you don't give a crap about and looking at what other people are up to...

First of all, I don't give a crap what you had for dinner, what you do for a living, what kind of showoffy car you drive, how successful you think you are or what sports game you are excited for.

Second of all I certainly don't feel the need to broadcast my personal information either.

 

[DeletedUser394]

Yes. I'm talking about posting stupid drinking pictures, talking to people you don't give a crap about and looking at what other people are up to...

First of all, I don't give a crap what you had for dinner, what you do for a living, what kind of showoffy car you drive, how successful you think you are or what sports game you are excited for.

Second of all I certainly don't feel the need to broadcast my personal information either.

This works for me. Dropped my usage by 95% essentially. Now I have no reason to go on there unless I actually need to contact someone. I also don't know how to undo it, so that's another positive haha.



Most of my friends/contacts live in other cities/countries, so facebook is a free way to contact them when needed.

Deleted most of my photos and 90% of my information on there a while back. Good stuff.

 

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[Kak]

My phone and Skype contacts are my social network.

 

[DeletedUser394]

When Roosevelt said "living wage" he literally meant enough to eat, house, and clothe themselves. He however, didn't envision people trying to live in houses they couldn't afford, eating at places they couldn't afford, and wearing a pair of shoes that's $300 or a shirt that's $200. When he was president there were too many people starving (literally) and needed enough to get by. That is what he meant, not the xbox or luxuries of life. He wanted to give people a chance to get a foot hold so they could pull themselves up not be pulled up by those above them.

I remember watching Stossel a while back (only good thing out of Fox lol), where he would go up to people and ask if they considered themselves to be poor. When they said yes, he asked them if they had a TV.. they all said yes. Then he asked if there are 2 tvs in the household. They all said yes. Video game system? Yes. Car? Yes. and on and on.

Unless you have 15 children (which is your problem), minimum wage is definitely a livable wage. But people expect more for no effort like you said.

The 'wealth gap' is also bs. At no point in history have 'poor' people had so much power. TVs, internet, freedom of movement, cellphones.. the list is endless.

People suck lol.

 

[regalforte]

Why is it so hard for people to simply take out a loan and get an in-demand college degree instead of complaining about working a minimum wage job? These minimum wage jobs were never intended for adults, they're there for high school students to develop good work ethics while earning some chump change to spend on soda.

 

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[Kak]

I remember watching Stossel a while back (only good thing out of Fox lol), where he would go up to people and ask if they considered themselves to be poor. When they said yes, he asked them if they had a TV.. they all said yes. Then he asked if there are 2 tvs in the household. They all said yes. Video game system? Yes. Car? Yes. and on and on.

Unless you have 15 children (which is your problem), minimum wage is definitely a livable wage. But people expect more for no effort like you said.

The 'wealth gap' is also bs. At no point in history have 'poor' people had so much power. TVs, internet, freedom of movement, cellphones.. the list is endless.

People suck lol.

THIS is the post of the thread. LOL

This is an astute analysis.

I like fox.

 

[Pete799p]

I really think that many businesses should really take a look at their current pay structure and if they can afford to pay more. There are a lot of reasons for this from a competitive stand point. A great example is Costco. They are notorious for having higher then industry average pay, benefits, etc. and better then industry standard working conditions, hours etc. I do not have the data to back this up so please correct me if I am wrong but I am willing to bet they have less turn over then Walmart and there is no doubt the customer experience is much better. All this equals more money in their pockets.

I completely agree that almost anybody can be replaced but there is a cost to this that I often think gets over looked or miss valued. If you have less turn over you have less training costs, less downtime, more productivity, and a smaller HR department etc. This is even more important if you are the one hiring, what is your time worth and how much of it is spent sifting through resumes and interviewing etc.

The only real corporate job I have ever had the conditions and hours were terrible and the pay was on the low end for title/job. Anybody with any shred of aspirations or real skill would leave as soon as possible, my self included. Because of this they had a ridiculous amount of turn over, so much so that the customers would comment on it. They had to design a whole training program to help expedite the process. This required at least one full time person whose only job was training and all the extra time spent by management interviewing and hiring staff that could have been spent improving operations. They had to hire more managers to accomplish this and everybody was paid salary during training, many of which left in less time then it took to train them. There were several times when there were jobs not getting done due to the hiring lag times after people leaving without notice. All of this leads to higher human resource costs and a bad customer experience. I have countless other examples of this across businesses both small and large and have seen folks walk past a dollar to pick up a penny.

I believe the saying goes "Penny wise dollar foolish"

When running a crew I always try to pay them well and provide them the best employment experience. I have found it always pays dividends, you would be surprised how far an extra $50 or $100 will go, hell even a simple case of beer can make all the difference in the world.

 

[Bowden]

Didn't read most of the replies but here's what I think. I don't have any employees, but I use freelancers for various projects. I always pay well as I make sure I only contract out to those who do amazing work.

Do work that 100% of the world could do - Get minimum wage

Do work that 50% of the world could do - Get a decent salary

Do work that 10% of the world could do - Get PAID

 

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[Ezio]

I agree with most of what all of you have written here. I wonder why these people instead of supporting minimal wage don't support lowering taxes and shrinking government and all bureaucracy which is screwing lower and middle class (despite all hate to 1% I think they are screwed much more thank rich people). This definitely would prop economic growth and would raise wages without government intervention.

Someone linked to Peter Schiff, I remember when he argued with people from "Occupy Wall Street" and he agreed that they have right to be pissed off* but he told them that they should protest in Washington.

*They can be pissed of about the public money that have been poured into bankrupt banks, subsides for Fortune 500 from government etc.

 

[SBS.95]

I remember watching Stossel a while back (only good thing out of Fox lol), where he would go up to people and ask if they considered themselves to be poor. When they said yes, he asked them if they had a TV.. they all said yes. Then he asked if there are 2 tvs in the household. They all said yes. Video game system? Yes. Car? Yes. and on and on.

Unless you have 15 children (which is your problem), minimum wage is definitely a livable wage. But people expect more for no effort like you said.

The 'wealth gap' is also bs. At no point in history have 'poor' people had so much power. TVs, internet, freedom of movement, cellphones.. the list is endless.

People suck lol.

Holy shit, it was Stossel. I was trying to remember where I heard xx% of America's "poor" population have a TV, car, etc. That was it.

On a related note, this is sitting next to me at my desk right now.

 

[jazb]

You bitch and moan about the '1%' and hate on big corporations...all while tweeting from your iphone and drinking your starbucks coffee. not to mention the fact that you probably live in the 1% of all conditions around the world. laughable

 

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[Andy Black]

Wow. Can't sum it up better than that. Is that one circulating on FB?

In that same respect, no business which depends on free traffic from the Google SERPS has any right to be in business.

In any event, I parodied the picture for your Fastlane enjoyment.

View attachment 8777

 

[RogueInnovation]

My view on this is about as well formed as ... well... something not well formed.

But it goes like this: (after tax)
Food costs over a lifetime amount for a substantial percentage of people with low earnings costs 20-40%
Housing costs over a lifetime like 60% ish

Labor crews and materials for a house and for a farm that produces all that stuff, might be sold at a 20% margin back to you, reducing establishment costs for setting up your own mines, transport systems, etc.

The margin of profit is a function of its collective usage.
In that we all share a resource pool with personel etc, and if its popular enough it exists.
If its not it goes bankrupt.

The margins incentivise us to create efficient and popular hubs.
And it is CEO's who burden the responsibilities of making these hubs function into profitability, enabling service.



The cost of EFFORT is actually higher for a ceo due to his or her responsibility.
BUT I believe there is corruption and also, wastage due to the pressure causing people to freak out and obsess on monetary needs.

By my calculation, a ceo's worth should be near the ratio of necessary hubs vs people it serves.
And if one man creates a hub, his effort in its creation should be equivalent to all the people it serves.

But, a man who does this will quickly overcome his lifetime of housing and food costs, which opens up an avenue of beyond survivalist possibilities.



Deep down, people are annoyed by this system, due to the aggravation of dipping above and below expences and having waste in their budgets, and front loaded expences.
This gets us into creating debt, which itself has a cost of maybe several percent over a lifetime.

Surplus in the labor force is taxed to go to governments etc

And any surplus that makes it through and is not wasted becomes luxury expences, that occur every now and then.



I believe that most people are MOST stressed about debt, tax and living expences, and are less fickle about luxury and its frequency.

The state of existing on borderline money is disempowering because it enables people to create strains and choke holds on their financial supply (you are fired! You are evicted! etc)

This freaks people the hell out.


So they look at a CEO and are like "hey you have surplus! Gimme!"
But the unfortunate truth, is that the importance of HAVING services is of a higher value base than struggling on the border (having a well is more important than making do with the rain).

CAN this be ammended appropriately?
It is possible, but you will incur HEAVY losses due to waste.

Can this waste be offset somehow?
Probably.



I do think its possible to raise minimum wage but awefully tricky to do effectively.
Thats why any raises will be minimal to test the waters etc first.


But what we need to remember, is that CEO's are as important as our farmers and miners etc, and when you squeeze them you do not necessarily get higher productivity but a dip.

I believe that better "transitional" strategies are more likely the key to bettering the stress levels we are exposed to.

Also, better technology, can lead us to a higher quality of life, if it were ever targetted at that pain point. But its difficult to do...


Thats how I see it currently.
But there are weird psychological factors at play here... Cuz if you drive the price of housing down, you get higher demand on resources. Or if you drive down the price of food (by having a high saturation of farmers) you get a push towards monopolisation of that network, and cleave off a whole chunk of farmers, who then must seek jobs in other fields.

What effect does that have on the whole system? Its difficult to say.
But I'd say it creates a "meat grinder" because the farmers out of work go into debt, and size of rent becomes insignificant due to lacking steady income.
And if this is happening to them, then it will bleed into other places.

I'd like to see a pie graph of employment per industry. And a heirarchy of needs vs cost per lifetime set up. It would be interesting to look at.

 

[Unknown]

I enjoy that so many people are bashing FB while posting on a social forum that uses likes as a status symbol. Irony, gotta love it

 

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[DeletedUser394]

Holy shit, it was Stossel. I was trying to remember where I heard xx% of America's "poor" population have a TV, car, etc. That was it.

On a related note, this is sitting next to me at my desk right now.

I don't remember reading this one (saw the tv special), but 'No They Can't!' was brilliant!

 

[SBS.95]

I enjoy that so many people are bashing FB while posting on a social forum that uses likes as a status symbol. Irony, gotta love it

I dislike social media because it is always either-
(a) a pity party
or
(b) trying to show off something I don't give a shit about

If all of the members from this site had these same types of discussions in some Facebook group, I'd use that. If communication is done through a forum like this, I'll use that. I bash Facebook not because of its usability or functions, I bash it because of the average user.

There's a difference between a forum like this being your "social media" and a Facebook feed. Just like there's a difference between this and this.