Ask Me About About SEO. Blackhat, Whitehat Whatever!

Dan Da Man · Jun 12, 2012

I know many of you might hear the word blackhat and automatically think that it is bad but I have completely different outlook on blackhat SEO. WHen I say blackhat I am meaning automated tools. Not some sketchy tactics that are hurting other sites or really manipulating google (every link is manipulating google to some extent).

I have gotten many PMs about e-commerce and SEO and I see a lot of misconceptions about it on this forum.

I know people are scared of blackhat and getting banned but as we have seen in the last update, white hat sites that did everything that google wanted were screwed. I had many sites with the worse sort of links from all automated programs, made it through. Blackhat does not mean lazy. You can be a lazy SEOer who will get hit on every update, or use your brain a little to create a site that will last in the search engines for a long time.

Yes SEO is a risky thing. I wanted to create this thread to answer questions and give what I have learned in the last 3 years of trial and error.

Ask me anything about which things to automate, which links to build, how to produce results that last etc..

Whether you are just starting out or know a bit, feel free to give me your opinion or ask ANY question.

I have done white hat before and I currently do 90% automated link building at the moment so I know both spectrums.

Ask away!

PatrickP · Jun 12, 2012

oooh ok I thought of one.

Let's say you personally had a website with a niche key word with approx 8000 searches per month.

What would your estimate, with your skills, be to get it to first page of Google?
Approximately how many hours of your time would it take?
How much would it cost if there are any expenses?

As you know from our PMs I am clueless about SEO so maybe these answers are completely unanswerable.

CryptO · Jun 12, 2012

I got one!

Are your techniques different from the SEO adds on ebay that say things like 10000 PR3 to PR6 backlinks for $10?

Jake · Jun 12, 2012

Any experience of knowledge on seo for android apps? Specifically google play? do apps move up the google search rankings the same way websites do or are the rankings based off of current rank in google play? or a combination? Do links help you move up the rankings within google play or only downloads, ratings, uses, etc?

Hambone · Jun 12, 2012

Did Dan Da Man get banned?
I went to PM him based on his post above, and now it says he is banned.

Was his post above not allowed?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PatrickP · Jun 12, 2012

Maybe you are banned lol

I just tried and it doesn't show he is banned.

Dan Da Man · Jun 12, 2012

PatrickP said:
oooh ok I thought of one.

Let's say you personally had a website with a niche key word with approx 8000 searches per month.

What would your estimate, with your skills, be to get it to first page of Google?
Approximately how many hours of your time would it take?
How much would it cost if there are any expenses?

As you know from our PMs I am clueless about SEO so maybe these answers are completely unanswerable.

Well, it really depends on the competition. 8,000 searches is going to be at least medium competition considering your product Mike.

For a keyword like this, you are probably going to get a ton of other relative keywords as well. Strengthening the ranking for the main keyword is most effective when using long tail keywords which support this keyword. This however takes longer but it will rake in so many long tail keywords as well.

For example - If dog training had 8,000 searches a month, I would go after "lab dog training" "best dog training" etc... which would then rank for those keywords as well as strengthen the main keyword "dog training.

For an 8,000 searches a month keyword I would guestimate that it would take 3 months depending on where you are ranking now and could cost anywhere between 600 - 5,000 lol. Really too hard to tell until you dive into it.

Dan Da Man · Jun 12, 2012

Hambone said:
Did Dan Da Man get banned?
I went to PM him based on his post above, and now it says he is banned.

Was his post above not allowed?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im banned?? LOL

Hambone · Jun 12, 2012

Haha...you're right!
My profile says I'm banned too.
Yours too actually.

I guess my Tapatalk app is messed up or something.

Dan Da Man · Jun 12, 2012

Alty said:
I got one!

Are your techniques different from the SEO adds on ebay that say things like 10000 PR3 to PR6 backlinks for $10?

Yes 100 percent different. Never buy links just because their links and you cant put a price on links because no link is the same. I can create 100,000 links in 10 minutes but those links are shit compared to the 1,000 different type of links I can create which will have 1000 times more impact.

Don't buy link packets. Never have and never will. Also, don't outsource your SEO unless you know what you want or trust the person doing it.

Jake said:
Any experience of knowledge on seo for android apps? Specifically google play? do apps move up the google search rankings the same way websites do or are the rankings based off of current rank in google play? or a combination? Do links help you move up the rankings within google play or only downloads, ratings, uses, etc?

Sorry, I have no experience here. Anyone else want to chime in?

CryptO · Jun 12, 2012

How much in your opinion would it cost to rank a .com that has two exact keywords getting 200,000 monthly searches?

example

Keyword1Keyword2.com

"Keyword1+Keyword2" = 200,000 exact monthly searches

andviv · Jun 12, 2012

Jake said:
do apps move up the google search rankings the same way websites do or are the rankings based off of current rank in google play? or a combination? Do links help you move up the rankings within google play or only downloads, ratings, uses, etc?

Two main factors are keyword match and # of downloads (popularity).

Example:

If you are searching for an app to find info about Cars, apps with the word Cars in the name will have more weight than those that only have the keyword in the description.

However, in some cases I've seen apps ranking higher for certain keywords because they are very popular but the keyword is not in the title.

Positive reviews also help a lot.

Mexidan · Jun 12, 2012

Something that I have been thinking about a lot lately is.. What if your not marketing to the US?
For example if you would set up a fitness supplement store in Brazil and if you look around and the competition is really shitty and not doing a lot of SEO.. would it be worth it to just go for the keywords Â´Fitness supplementsÂ´ instead of really targeting a smaller niche like.. Â´powerlifting supplements'.

Dan Da Man · Jun 12, 2012

Alty said:
How much in your opinion would it cost to rank a .com that has two exact keywords getting 200,000 monthly searches?

example

Keyword1Keyword2.com

"Keyword1+Keyword2" = 200,000 exact monthly searches

Again, there is no way to determine the cost for this. You need to understand a few things.

First, SEO there is no guarantee. Anyone who gives you a gurantee is full of shit.

Second, it is very hard to guage how long it will take and how much it will cost because until you actually dive in, research the niche and keywords and competition, you won't really know how long it will take. Sometimes you can spend a few hundred bucks and get to the top 3 pages then getting to the top 10 will take ten times what ever you spent as the competition is obviously much harder on the first page.

Think of SEO as a profession such as a lawyer. You pay the lawyer regardless if you win or loose. They obviously want you to win but how can they predict the outcome? It is also hard for a lawyer to predict the cost because there are so many different factors that they cannot control. What happens if the case goes a lot longer then they expected? Are they going to give you free work because they quoted you a lower price? SEO is even harder because there are no dead signs to whether a keyword will be easy and how easy. Obviously the more searched keywords tend to be harder and the known money making keywords are always going to be tough but many times I thought keywords were hard and in fact they were very easy and vice versa.

And another thing. You are looking at broad searches. Check the exact match phrase in the google keyword tool to give you local exact searches. Broad is useless. Always look at local searches and exact match.

Mexidan said:
Something that I have been thinking about a lot lately is.. What if your not marketing to the US?
For example if you would set up a fitness supplement store in Brazil and if you look around and the competition is really shitty and not doing a lot of SEO.. would it be worth it to just go for the keywords Â´Fitness supplementsÂ´ instead of really targeting a smaller niche like.. Â´powerlifting supplements'.

Well, if you are going to market outside the US and people are searching for it outside the US then why not? The only reason I do not care about traffic overseas is because I am not going to ship anything oveseas so why waste my time marketing to them?

It may look like fitness supplements is not competitive in another country but you are still going to be competing with many US companies as well. Just because google has specific country search operators, doesn't mean that big companies like BodyBuilding.com won't be showing up.

MNentre · Jun 12, 2012

Dan, great thread!

What programs do you use when working on SEO? i.e. spinners, forum posters, captcha programs, etc.

Dan Da Man · Jun 13, 2012

MNentre said:
Dan, great thread!

What programs do you use when working on SEO? i.e. spinners, forum posters, captcha programs, etc.

I first started off using SEnuke and Article Marketing Robot. They work and all but are very limited. Right now I am using the holy grain Zennoposter. Complicated for sure but the hours I spend learning this program will be killer!

I also use Article Marketing Robot when I want and The Best Spinner as well. I also have subscription to ubertoolz which has an HTMl spinner (spins content on html level where google sees it spun while readers see it normal) which makes for great readability.

I also use scrapebox for finding high PR blog comments and posting to high PR related blog comments.

Don't really do much manual but might get back to doing some high PR blog commenting if I get a chance. Haven't decided if it is even worth it.

Any programs you want to know about?

Jake · Jun 13, 2012

andviv said:
Two main factors are keyword match and # of downloads (popularity).

Example:

If you are searching for an app to find info about Cars, apps with the word Cars in the name will have more weight than those that only have the keyword in the description.

However, in some cases I've seen apps ranking higher for certain keywords because they are very popular but the keyword is not in the title.

Positive reviews also help a lot.

Thanks. That's what I figured. I didn't know if link building has any influence within the store itself or in the google search rankings when you see apps ranked.

The-J · Jun 13, 2012

How would you suggest going about building links? You said not to purchase links, but as far as organic link building/SEO is concerned, how would you go about choosing which sites are best for inbound links?

Dan Da Man · Jun 13, 2012

The-J said:
How would you suggest going about building links? You said not to purchase links, but as far as organic link building/SEO is concerned, how would you go about choosing which sites are best for inbound links?

Google gives the most weight to contextual links at the moment. So pages with tons of content on high authority domains are going to get you the most weight at the moment (web 2.0 sites). Majority of my link building is with web 2.0 sites. Building up pyramids and backlinking your 2.0s with other 2.0s.

Unless you can get some guest posting on high authority domains in your niche, creating ton of content (by spinning) and distributing them to your web 2.0s would be the best bet.

MNentre · Jun 13, 2012

Dan Da Man said:
I first started off using SEnuke and Article Marketing Robot. They work and all but are very limited. Right now I am using the holy grain Zennoposter. Complicated for sure but the hours I spend learning this program will be killer!

I also use Article Marketing Robot when I want and The Best Spinner as well. I also have subscription to ubertoolz which has an HTMl spinner (spins content on html level where google sees it spun while readers see it normal) which makes for great readability.

I also use scrapebox for finding high PR blog comments and posting to high PR related blog comments.

Don't really do much manual but might get back to doing some high PR blog commenting if I get a chance. Haven't decided if it is even worth it.

Any programs you want to know about?

For someone just getting started in SEO, which of these do you see as being the most essential. After doing some research on each of the programs you recommended, some of them seem to do the same thing, right?

Dan Da Man · Jun 14, 2012

MNentre said:
For someone just getting started in SEO, which of these do you see as being the most essential. After doing some research on each of the programs you recommended, some of them seem to do the same thing, right?

Yeah some do the same just some do the processes way better. But, I see many people try and learn the hardest programs before even understanding simple things about SEO. You don't try and learn to ride a mortorcycle before you have learned to ride a bike.

Learn to do things manual first. Do some blog comments, some web 2.0s, etc... THen I would start off with SEnuke or Ultimate Demon. Learn how things work. It is a slow process. I could have not gotten to where I am without all these other steps.

Also, learn scrapebox. It is essential. Learn how to scrape, post, use all the little addons. There are awesome features I use everyday with scrapebox.

Eos · Jun 14, 2012

Great thread Dan! Some golden information here, I will be following closely. Thanks!

Dan Da Man · Jun 14, 2012

Swift T said:
Great thread Dan! Some golden information here, I will be following closely. Thanks!

No prob

Ask away!

Trevor Kuntz · Jun 14, 2012

What types of SEO would you advise NOT to use. Which are a waste of time and which are, shall we say, dangerous to use?

Dan Da Man · Jun 15, 2012

Trevor Kuntz said:
What types of SEO would you advise NOT to use. Which are a waste of time and which are, shall we say, dangerous to use?

Any SEO that is lazy lol. Literally there are millions of ways not to do SEO. One important factor I see so many people struggling with is they know they have a keyword they want to go after and they use that same keywords for the anchor text again and again. Overoptimization is a huge killer. Weeds out the lazy people.

Build links that look natural. Long tail keywords, click here, naked urls. Any type of link is not really harmful, it is how you build the link and what you do with it.

Trevor Kuntz · Jun 15, 2012

Dan Da Man said:
they have a keyword they want to go after and they use that same keywords for the anchor text again and again. Overoptimization is a huge killer.

Lol. That's what I was doing when I was doing SEO. My only main type of SEO up until now has been commenting on blogs and putting in my URL. I plan on doing a lot of guest blogging in the future. My main problem though is just doing good SEO without being spammy. I can provide quality, related comments on piano and art blogs that are going to be accepted by the moderators, but there's no way that I'm going to be able to work any anchor text related to mosquito netting in my comments without looking spammy. Haha.

kwerner · Jun 15, 2012

Question -- Do you sometimes talk with a Russian accent when running Zenno? Haha, j/k, I've been watching too many YouTube tutorial videos.

Dan Da Man · Jun 16, 2012

kwerner said:
Question -- Do you sometimes talk with a Russian accent when running Zenno? Haha, j/k, I've been watching too many YouTube tutorial videos.

Haha! Dude, its horrible! It makes it almost impossible to learn

Dan Da Man · Jun 16, 2012

Trevor Kuntz said:
Lol. That's what I was doing when I was doing SEO. My only main type of SEO up until now has been commenting on blogs and putting in my URL. I plan on doing a lot of guest blogging in the future. My main problem though is just doing good SEO without being spammy. I can provide quality, related comments on piano and art blogs that are going to be accepted by the moderators, but there's no way that I'm going to be able to work any anchor text related to mosquito netting in my comments without looking spammy. Haha.

Is that all your using? Just blog comments?

Trevor Kuntz · Jun 16, 2012

Dan Da Man said:
Is that all your using? Just blog comments?

Yeah, pretty much. I've just recently started submitting my site to other search engines, using coupon sites, doing on-page SEO, etc. I'm not well versed in SEO yet, but I'm trying to do all of the SEO entirely on my own. I don't see a lot of value in the cheap SEO stuff and I just can't afford the expensive SEO stuff, so I just need to do it all on my own. Any tips would be greatly appreciated though!

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