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NOTABLE! What's the difference between Slackers and Go Getters? The answer may have to do w/ brain chemistry.

Discussion in 'General Mindset, Motivation, Beliefs' started by ChrisV, May 13, 2015.

  1. Roli
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    Roli Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass

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    Can you point me to them or relist please?
     
  2. ChrisV
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    ChrisV Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Hmm, maybe that’s my issue? Because when I first started taking it it was motivation for days. But after a while the efficacy waned.


    Matcha and green tea are very similar, except Matcha is much stronger. Okay, when you make green tea, they take the leaves, chop ‘em up, and you steep them. Matcha, they just grind the leaves into a powder and you drink the whole powder. Has a really good taste.

    How do you find the Green Tea affect your motivation?


    Ha.


    Which link? The COMT one was an article.

    Also, I think you’d really like this thread too:

    Absolute best Nootropics (Smart Drugs) for boosting Motivation, Memory, Focus and Mood
     
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  3. ChrisV
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    ChrisV Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Exercise - Not only does it boost DA, but in addition exercise increases the number of receptors in the brain which actually has very very very pronounced effects.. it essentially raises DA neurotransmission exponentially [1] [2] [3]
    setting small goals (breaking your big goals into chunks)
    eat protein (foods high in phenylalanine/tyrosine)
    reduce saturated fat [1] (but saturated fat is NOT as evil as the media make it out to be so wouldn’t go crazy)

    One study found that rats that consumed 50% of their calories from saturated fat had reduced dopamine signaling in the reward areas of their brain, compared to animals receiving the same amount of calories from unsaturated fat
    Probiotics [1] [2]
    Velvet Beans [1] Parkinsons is caused by dopamine dysfunction
    8 hours sleep
    Listen to music [1] [2] [3]
    Meditation [1] (This study found a SIXTY-FIVE PERCENT increase in dopamine release after meditation!
    Plenty of sunlight! [1] [2]
    Reduce sugar (sugar causes a dopamine spike, but down regulates receptors.. causing really bad long-term effects)
    Supplements: L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalinine, L-theanine, Phosphatidylserine, Curcumin, Ginkgo Biloba, Mucuna Pruriens, More: 54 Supplements & Drugs/Agonists to Increase Dopamine - Selfhacked (Selfhacked is a great resource for stuff like this

    Sorry I didn’t cite everything but it’s easily verifiable. Like if you type in “Sleep and dopamine” or “small goals dopamine" into Google the studies should pop right up.
     
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  4. ChrisV
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    ChrisV Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Okay guys, here is a big one.

    Changing your Locus of Control.

    It’s probably my overarching point of this thread.


    From @MJ DeMarco ’s book The Millionaire Fastlane in Chapter 9, the chapter about slowlaners mentality:

    Wealth Demands Accountability

    "After faith in luck and events, blame is the third anchor to the Sidewalk.

    THE LAW OF VICTIMS

    People who don’t take responsibility are victims. Some of them are born victims and, instead of trying to improve their hand, they fold and give up. For them, everyone has the solution to their problems but them. And their problems? Not their fault. Nope, someone else is to blame. Instead of looking within, they look outward and project responsibility to some other entity. Victims are Sidewalkers who refuse to take the driver’s seat of their own lives and live under a dark cloud of “theys” reflective of a “me against them” attitude.

    “They laid me off.”
    “They changed the terms.” “They cheated me.”
    “They didn’t tell me.”
    “They raised my rent.”
    “They raised my interest rate.”

    Invariably, all these “theys” are self-imposed."


    In psychology there is a concept known as Locus of Control.

    'In personality psychology, locus of control is the degree to which people believe that they have control over the outcome of events in their lives, as opposed to external forces beyond their control.

    A person's "loci" (plural of "locus", Latin for "place" or "location") are conceptualized as internal (a belief that one's life can be controlled) or external (a belief that life is controlled by outside factors which they cannot influence, or that chance or fate controls their lives).

    Individuals with a strong internal locus of control believe events in their life derive primarily from their own actions: for example, when receiving exam results, people with an internal locus of control tend to praise or blame themselves and their abilities. People with a strong external locus of control tend to praise or blame external factors such as the teacher or the exam.'​

    Now what does this have to do with the thread? Well, Homovanillic acid (pHVA) is a measure of dopamine/catacholamine metabolites. Its usually used as a proxy to measure how much dopamine a person ‘has.'

    Abstract
    This study investigates the relationship between dopamine metabolism and a personality trait, the locus of control. For 29 primary breast cancer patients who are otherwise normally functioning, plasma concentrations of homovanillic acid (pHVA) levels and locus of control on the Rotter internal–external scale were determined. The results indicate that pHVA is significantly associated with locus of control, with pHVA levels increasing for more externally oriented individuals. This relationship held true when age and four different stress-related measures were partialled out. These findings are discussed with respect to individual differences in higher cognitive functions requiring sustained prefrontal cortical activity, and a neural model of central dopamine regulation.
    Homovanillic acid (HVA) is a major catecholamine metabolite that is produced by a consecutive action of monoamine oxidase and catechol-O-methyltransferase on dopamine.[1] Homovanillic acid is used as a reagent to detect oxidative enzymes, and is associated with dopamine levels in the brain.

    In other words, people with an external locus of control (blamers) break down dopamine faster. MAO and COMT are the main enzymes that break down dopamine. Technical breakdown for those interested:

    Noradrenaline_breakdown.svg.png


    Bottom line? People who have a internal locus of control have higher dopamine.

    A possible role of central dopamine metabolism associated with individual differences in locus of control | Request PDF

    In another study researchers gave participants a drug (Talcapone) that inhibits the COMT enzyme, and slows the breakdown of dopamine in the brain. What were the effects?

    'In this study of the exploration-exploitation tradeoff, the randomized, double-blind, counterbalanced, within-subject administration of the COMT inhibitor tolcapone significantly increased exploration, particularly in Met/Met subjects relative to placebo, and the drug effect was significantly greater than in Val/Val subjects. Likewise, scores on a behavioral measure, Rotter's LOC scale, correlated with the magnitude of exploration effects: relative to subjects with a more internal LOC, subjects with a more external LOC showed both reduced exploration in the placebo condition, and increased exploration on tolcapone vs placebo. Although these effects will certainly benefit from replication in independent data sets, the influence of tolcapone in these subjects supports both the role of presumptively frontal dopamine in these behaviors and the structure of the computational models used to study them. We address each of these issues in turn.

    The third point is directly addressed by LOC. Subjects who have a greater sense of agency—who believe that their choices can determine future events—showed a greater tendency to explore in the placebo condition than subjects who had a more external LOC (Figure 4). In contrast, subjects with an external LOC showed a greater response to tolcapone.

    Why should tolcapone have this effect? Underlying the motivation for studying tolcapone's influence on exploration is a theoretical framework in which increases in dopamine within PFC lead to improved cognitive control.

    Specifically, those subjects with a more external LOC showed reduced exploration at baseline, but they differentially improved when tolcapone augmented dopamine tone. In contrast, subjects with a more internal LOC showed no improvement on drug.

    In conclusion, our data demonstrate that subjects with the Met/Met genotype at the Val159Met allele, as well as subjects with a more external LOC measure, showed significant increases in exploration on tolcapone vs placebo.'
    Dopamine, Locus of Control, and the Exploration-Exploitation Tradeoff

    If anyone wants me to explain this study better, I will. Basically there’s a specific genotype of people who produce a version COMT that’s incredibly efficient. It breaks down Dopamine 4x as fast as normal people. I (unfortunately) have this gene, which is part of the reason I’ve researched it so heavily.

    Essentially if you have the COMT gene that breaks down dopamine too fast in the PFC, inhibiting COMT will move you from an external Locus of Control to an Internal.


    npp2014193f4.jpg


    Which is why I recommended Matcha Tea/Green Tea

    Enzymology of Methylation of Tea Catechins and Inhibition of Catechol-O-methyltransferase by (−)-Epigallocatechin Gallate

    COMT inhibitors are found in green tea. Drinking green tea is, therefore, thought to provide a useful short-term boost to antidepressant medication by increasing the half life of extracellular noradrenaline and dopamine.
    Catechol-o-methyltransferase

    Dual Beneficial Effects of (-)-Epigallocatechin-3-Gallate on Levodopa Methylation and Hippocampal Neurodegeneration: In Vitro and In Vivo Studies

    Inhibition of catechol-O-methyltransferase activity in human breast cancer cells enhances the biological effect of the green tea polyphenol (-)-EGCG

    A multitude of treatments, from pharmaceutical COMT inhibitors (tolcapone, entacapone), to green tea and epigallocatechin gallate (ECGC), can inhibit COMT activity, thereby elevating catecholamines. Theoretically, treatment with methylfolate would have the same effect.

    COMT activity is inhibited by calcium and iron. While an effective potential treatment, others need to be discovered.​

    Move Over, MTHFR: Time to Look at COMT – Naturopathic Doctor News and Review

    COMT Inhibitor Synergy - Brain Health - LONGECITY


    Sorry I’d this is a bit technical, but if anyone wants me to explain further, I’d be glad to.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
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  5. Ninjakid
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    not just dopamine

    SEROTONIN!!!!!

    Serotonin makes you happy, gives you self-worth, makes you aware, gives you an appetite, and makes you want to succeed!

    I was born with Tourettes, so I have an overabundance of dopamine, but low serotonin BY DEFAULT!

    And I say by default because I overcome it constantly. I REFUSE to let it define me. My body and mind are just a vessel of a higher power, and it must be under my control!!

    Most of my life, I was shy and apprehensive. I wasn't motivated because I would always seek instant gratification. Hence the overactive dopamine.

    When I started to train myself to do hard sh*t, my usual depressive mood disappeared. I'm a fireball of drive at times. Serotonin controls the amount of dopamine present, so with more of it, I get relief from symptoms.

    It's still a challenge to this day, but I keep at it. I'm always challenging myself and I refuse to feel sorry for myself.

    If I can do it, so can you. Anyone can become a go-getter if they will it.

    Sacrifice who you are today for who you can be tomorrow
     
  6. Roli
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    Awesome!! Thanks again, it's great to know I'm doing a lot of these. I meditate, I exercise daily and I have recently cut down on the sugar.

    Now I just have to sort the supplements out and eat the foods you suggest.

    As they say, you are what you eat...

    Oh by the way, what do you think of omega-5 as opposed to 3, any particular benefits that I should consider? Or are they much of a muchness?
     
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  7. ChrisV
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    ChrisV Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Do you mean Omega 6? Omega 6 you shouldn’t have to supplement because we usually get enough from diet, but they’re two different things. You need them is specific ratios.

    The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids. - PubMed - NCBI

    How to Optimize Your Omega-6 to Omega-3 Ratio

    It’s the ratio that’s important.
     
  8. Roli
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    It doesn't really do much for me motivation-wise. However if I'm writing, I find it really good for creativity. I zone in and my fingers seem to skip over the keys and create a kind of idea-typing feedback loop. It's hard to explain...

    I've tried drinking it in the afternoon as opposed to first thing and it really doesn't seem to do as much for me.

    Oh the tyrosine one, I had a quick look, I think it led to a nootropics shop right?

    Thanks for the link, will read now.
     
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  9. MJ DeMarco
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    MJ DeMarco Raving Lunatic Staff Member Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED FASTLANE INSIDER Speedway Pass LEGENDARY CONTRIBUTOR Summit Attendee

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    Admin Post
    Yikes, this thread started 3 years ago.

    Anyhow, upgrading to NOTABLE due to all the effort, charts, links, and references posted. It's a tangled web of information, if anyone wants to sort it out, it could be helpful. For instance, the Locus of Control concept is significant to understand for success.
     
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  10. ChrisV
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    ChrisV Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    I’ll rewrite this post into something more coherent and comprehensive because yes, I do think it’s major.

    I started just posting the article, but it evolved into something else entirely.

    I’ll start sorting it out when I have a few minutes.
     
  11. ApparentHorizon
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    I haven't had the time recently to read too much, but this just came out: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

     
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  12. ChrisV
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    ChrisV Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    Hmmmmm, that’s the second time you cited research correlating amygdala volume to success.

    I have read research that neuroticism negatively correlates with basically everything you could possibly want in life. Income, career, marital satisfaction.

    Income:

    Participants high in Neuroticism reported lower annual incomes, whereas those high in Conscientiousness reported earning more. Both relations held when controlling for sex, ethnicity, age, and education.
    Job:

    our empirical findings reveal that the personality traits Conscientiousness and Neuroticism have a strong impact on the instantaneous probability of finding a job, where the former has a positive effect and the latter has a negative effect. The direction of the effect on the subsequent employment duration is the opposite.
    Marriage:

    While previous research points to a central role of neuroticism, our findings suggest that conscientiousness is the trait most broadly associated with marital satisfaction in this sample of long-wed couples.
    And I’m sure neuroticism has major roots in that part of the brain... i mean considering its the fear center.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
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  13. ApparentHorizon
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    I saw this a decade ago and it still sticks in my mind to this day:



    TLDR: A guy lost his ability to feel emotion, and when asked to pick where he wanted to eat. Well, after 20 min, he still hadn't made a decision.

    There's also his book that's been on my reading list for quite some time. Descartes' Error by Damasio
     
  14. ChrisV
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    ChrisV Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KT104RI/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

    Not sure if you read this (it’s on the Fastlane Favorite Books list too) but they talk about a few people who idon’thave the ability to feel pain. Spoiler alert: it’s really bad.

    And what he’s saying illustrates what I’ve always said about emotions... we make decisions 100% with emotions. Logic just helps us figure out which choice will feel better.

    Even if you make a decision purely logically, it’s still a shortcut to emotions. “im buying this car because it has better gas mileage, see it’s logical.” Gas costs money. Losing money makes feel bad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
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  15. Brian Suh
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    There is a correlation between testosterone and success. Does that mean one who has low testosterone shouldn't try to get success? No. It will just be harder. It is a classic example of where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The more you workout, the leaner you get, thus the more testosterone you produce, which helps you lose fat and build muscle and gives you motivation to workout, thus the leaner you get, and the more testosterone you get and on and on.
    The opposite is true. The fatter you get, the less motivated you get, the more estrogen you get, which makes you get fatter and lose muscle, which makes you less motivated to workout, which makes you weaker, which makes you build less muscle, which lowers testosterone, which makes you gain fat, which makes you get estrogen and on and on. (this paragraph gave me nightmares lol).
     
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  16. Edwin Fernandez
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    Edwin Fernandez Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    I didn't read a single post in this thread but wanted to chime in...

    I noticed when I change my food intake to eating more whole non-processed foods, less sugar, and a little more caffeine( black, no sugar ), and exercise everyday, I become a go getter.
     
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  17. ChrisV
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    ChrisV Gold Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED Speedway Pass

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    That’s funny because we were literally just talking about that:

     
  18. ApparentHorizon
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    Get rid of breads and pastas too if you eat them.

    Then add in a bowl, one bigger than your head, of leafy greens like spinach for the iron. Do this the night before, for dinner. No later than 10PM. You'll wake up the next morning like coffee is a primitive tool. If you've ever wondered why people get up at 5 in the morning, you'll find it's not all about willpower and alarm clocks.
     
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  19. Edwin Fernandez
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    Edwin Fernandez Contributor Read Millionaire Fastlane I've Read UNSCRIPTED

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    Oh and another big thing was stopping drinking booze and smoking the hoo-ha, I was waking up way too groggy and it just slows me down all around, mentally, physically.

    Meditate, too to kill the stress and anxiety. All these have probably already been mentioned but I didn't read anything.
     
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  20. ChrisV
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    Evaluation of the effort-related motivational effects of the novel dopamine uptake inhibitor PRX-14040

    Abstract
    Psychiatric disorders are often marked by effort-related motivational symptoms such as anergia, fatigue, psychomotor retardation, and alterations in effort-based decision making. Animal studies of effort-related choice behavior are being used to model these symptoms. With these procedures, animals are offered a choice between high effort instrumental actions leading to highly valued reinforcers vs. low effort/low reward options. In the present experiments the motivational effects of a novel dopamine (DA) uptake inhibitor, PRX-14040 (PRX), were assessed using tests of effort-based choice in rats. For the two experiments, rats were tested using the concurrent fixed ratio 5 (FR5)/chow feeding choice task. In the first 2 experiments, the vesicular monoamine transport (VMAT-2) inhibitor tetrabenazine (TBZ), which blocks dopamine storage and depletes dopamine, was used to produce a shift in effort-related choice, decreasing lever pressing and increasing chow intake. Co-administration of PRX reversed the effects of TBZ, increasing lever pressing and decreasing chow intake in TBZ-treated rats. In experiment 2, PRX was compared with the catecholamine uptake inhibitor and antidepressant bupropion (Wellbutrin), the stimulant drug methylphenidate, and the wakefulness agent modafinil. All four drugs reversed the effects of TBZ, and PRX compared favorably with these compounds. In the final experiment, PRX was assessed for its ability to increase work output in rats responding on a progressive ratio (PROG)/chow feeding choice task in rats that were otherwise untreated. PRX biased animals towards greater exertion of effort, increasing PROG lever pressing output while decreasing chow intake. In summary, PRX was able to reverse the effects of TBZ, and to increase selection of high effort activities. Taken together, these results suggest that PRX could be useful as a treatment for effort-related motivational dysfunction in humans.


    English translation: when given drugs to decrease dopaminergic transmission, rats became lazy and unmotivated. When given drugs to reverse the original drug they become much more motivated to expend energy for a reward.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
  21. ChrisV
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    Okay guys, I organizing all this into something coherent when I have time, and I know we’re hitting on some complex stuff, but I wanted to talk about another very important topic which is genetics.

    I’m gonna make this very clear right now because I know what’s gonna happen already. “GENES MEAN NOTHING... ACHIEVEMENT IS A DECISION.. YOU CAN’T USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE”

    No, you don’t want to use it as an excuse, but you do have to realize the realities of genetics in order for you to beat them. Generics are real. They affect your personality. They affect your achievement. The reason you aren’t a sloth or a frog is because of a double helix. A sloth can’t think himself not being a tiger. But there are things you can do to beat your genetics to become an achiever, even if you’re not born one.

    A lot of what we’ve been talking about comes down to an enzyme called COMT which is controlled by a gene of the same name.

    Worrier or Warrior? Explaining The COMT V158M Gene (rs4680) - Selfhacked

    678648.fig.001.jpg

    This is from Dr Ben Lynch’s book Dirty Genes. He does a good job of talking about the two variants of this gene.

    COMT is the main enzyme responsible for clearing dopamine from the prefrontal cortex (the part of the brain responsible for higher level thinking.)

    Essentially people with the slow COMT gene are go-getters (worriers) and those with the fast COMT gene are slackers (warriors.) There’s also a COMT variant that’s in the middle which is considered ideal. Essentially people exist on a spectrum of “Too wired/stressed,” “too laid back/lazy” or “just right.” But the people who are too wired can often be high achievers.

    weinbergercomtseesaw_35652_1.jpg

    15-Figure1-1.png

    (Source)

    From Dr Lynch’s book (I cut a lot out, so be sure to get the book!):

    When Margo and I met, her exuberant personality seemed to fill the room. She smiled at me enthusiastically, but she looked tired and drawn, though she was only in her midthirties.

    She had a demanding job as a high school administrator, which she loved, but which left her feeling burned out and exhausted at the end of every week.

    Margo's personality and health assessment fit the profile of slow COMT SNPs so perfectly that I wasn't surprised when her test results came back. I explained to her that her particular inheritance of a dirty gene was loaded with both pros and cons:

    Strengths
    • Natural enthusiasm and exuberance
    • Altruism and generosity
    • Energy and productivity
    • The ability to focus for long periods of time
    Weaknesses
    • Trouble winding down
    • Sleep challenges
    • Workaholism
    • Difficulties metabolizing estrogen (which can lead to menstrual issues, fibroids, and female cancers)
    When I met Blake the following hour, I was struck by the ways in which he was almost a mirror image of Margo. A carefree young man in his late twenties, Blake was the ultimate laid-back personality. He slept deeply but even after a good night's sleep, he rarely felt energetic. He loved his coffee a few times a day to energize him.

    He had trouble focusing on any one activity for very long.

    Strengths

    • Natural calm and ability to relax; high tolerance for stress
    • An undemanding and accepting nature
    • A broad focus; a wide range of interests
    • An ability to sleep well

    Weaknesses
    • Trouble revving up
    • Difficulty maintaining focus; distractibility
    • Weak memory
    • Tendency toward depression

    The COMT gene determines your ability to process catechols, estrogen, and some major neurotransmitters: dopamine, norepinephrine (noradrenaline), and epinephrine (adrenaline).

    Dopamine

    Dopamine is a neurotransmitter involved in excitement, thrills, and uncertainty. A burst of dopamine is a huge reward; it makes you feel terrific! When I tell you that falling in love is accompanied by a huge dopamine rush, you can see how good it makes you feel. Dopamine is also present in high levels when you're gambling, riding a roller coaster, or getting ready to meet a big challengecany high-stakes activity where the outcome feels uncertain.

    Norepinephrine and Epinephrine

    Norepinephrine and epinephrine are your two key stress neurotransmitters. They help you rev yourself up for big challenges anything that requires extra physical or emotional effort. I

    Margo's slow COMT was slow to clear catechols, estrogen, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine from her system. As a result, her levels of these compounds tended to be high. The extra estrogen gave Margo glowing skin and good sexual function, but it also caused monster PMS and put her at risk for breast and ovarian cancer.

    Only half-joking, I told Margo, Most of the time, you're Superwoman. You’ve got tons of energy, drive, and focus.

    Blake's dirty COMT the mirror image of Margo's, as I noted earlier was fast. It metabolized catechols, estrogen, and stress neurotransmitters so quickly that Blake's levels were usually low.

    Meanwhile, Blake's low levels of stress neurotransmitters gave him an enviable serenity and calm an admirable ability to shake off the little irritants of life that so often bother the rest of us. Most things genuinely didn't bother Blake; he was wired for acceptance, adjustment, and compromise.

    The downside was that he often lacked the ability to focus, bear down, and get things done. He didn't mind if you were an hour late to an appointment but he didn't necessarily mind if he was, either. And since his dopamine levels tended to be low, he often lacked energy and confidence. I do my best,” he told me, but I don't expect that much to come of it.
    I have a confession: I’m a Blake. I have a fast COMT. I’m very relaxed, but I have to work extra hard to stay focused. Untended to, I’ll literally get nothing all day. Some of the strategies in this thread can help if you have those tendencies as well, or we can discuss more.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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