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NOTABLE! What's the difference between Slackers and Go Getters? The answer may have to do w/ brain chemistry.

Anandb

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Completely agree, but pthe idea of doctors getting kickbacks from the drugs they prescribed is a myth. It's completely illegal for doctors to receive payments for what they prescribe.

My only problem with the neural plasticity idea is that self-help authors take that one little tiny bit of science that they know and abuse the sh*t out of it and try to use it as evidence that positive thinking is all you need to succeed. Try positive thinking when you're clinically depressed and your serotonin levels are almost 0… You will never be able to do it no matter what Rhonda Byrne said about neural plasticity. Your brain is a physical machine and all the laws of physics apply to it

Self-helpism is not science and it actually agrivates me when they blaspheme the name of science with their pseudoscience.

To be frank… They honestly just make sh*t up with no regard to actual facts and actual research.

One other example is serotonin. Serotonin is derived from the amino acid tryptophan. Tryptophan is a protein. There have been studies where they fed people meals with every amino acid except tryptophan fora
Day or so. Every single person in the study developed depression. 100%. Just by depriving them of tryptophan, which lowers serotonin levels in the brain.

No amount of positive thinking will ever fix that.
How the hell did they sanction a study like that!?!
 

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ChrisV

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I'd buy it. (ok maybe not, but only b/c its a curiosity, and not my main pursuit. Maybe an audiobook I would.)

The way he presents the info, however dumbed down, makes it accessible to the rest of us. I appreciate what he's sharing, and helped provide a few keywords I could go down the rabbit hole that affected my life directly.

Just because not all of it is 100% accurate, doesn't mean it's not helpful to someone. In reality a lot of science is debatable, especially with the uptick in falsified publishing lately. (Don't get me started on China)

And that's the beauty of it in the first place. Someone states a hypothesis. Performs an experiment, and welcomes everyone else to try to falsify it.

Just saying the studies and information are wrong, b/c they're in popsci or youtube videos, isn't constructive imo. It might be helpful to the rest of us to say why it's wrong and propose alternative viewpoints, than just shutting down the discussion.

Maybe I'm coming from a naive place, but just my 2c.
Sapolsky isn’t even Pop Science. This guy was darting monkeys to measure their neurochemistry since before half of us were born. He’s a serious and reputable researcher and one of the leading biologists in the world. And rogue knows this.
 

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these aren't topics that you can expect to be digested into bite-sized chunks AND be useful AND still get you the approval badge of Science™. Pick any 2.
Ah there it is.

Because no PhD or formal certification, and no complicated language, you don't believe anyone will get any use out of surface-level musings. (Yes it is just skimming the surface, and I'm not sure how many are confused about that. But the way I'm reading it, you seem to be straw manning the issue.)

Considering so many famous scientists did not have institutional schooling, and this forum focuses a significant amount on education and understanding, outside of college, the requirement for a degree is an odd nitpick. (What requirements have you attributed to acquiring that "Science badge?")

If you're expecting real actionable advice... well, I think your time is best spent on other things.

If that's where you think your time or money is best spent, I'm not here to argue with you. But I'd consider my sources, and keep in mind that simplicity is not always the best virtue even if it's the rule of the game on the internet. Some problems are just hard, no matter how much you want the easy way.
Again, I think you're straw manning. Actionable advice can come from understanding. Not the understanding you get from studying 12 hours a day for 4 years, but just knowing keywords to research on your own.

I don't know much about food, but we can all accept salads are healthy, and excessive processed foods can be damaging. You can spend years researching why and how fat messes you up, and clogs your arteries, and you need to balance your HDL and LDL for a healthy life, I'd get nothing else done.

I don't know much about genetics, but found out one side of my family is predisposed to alcoholism. So I stopped drinking altogether when I saw signs of me going down that road. I don't need to know which ACGT sequence is directly responsible for these effects, or if it's even genetic.

I don't know much about neuroscience, but I may even have ADD. If I do, I've managed decently well without any form of medication without it. My friend who does have a PhD and has been a practicing doctor for the past 12 years, couldn't really point to any strong indicator of the fact. But recommended I try a simple natural solution before even considering pills. (There's a strong sense of my ego that doesn't want to admit to it, but it is what it is.)

3. Nothing is going to be settled or proven or decided on an internet thread. It is going to degenerate into ego and name calling. Not if, when. It's already heading that way right now. I'm only here right now because I still think there's a slightly better than average chance that the carrot win.
So why throw the first stone?

So what exactly would you like to know?
I've stated some of my questions above. Feel free to interpret them as you see fit, and take us to a place where we wouldn't have considered.
 
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ChrisV

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How the hell did they sanction a study like that!?!
lmao right? I’m not sure if the ethical guidelines. We’re different then. But I know I sure as shit wouldn’t want to sign up for that one.
 
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Ah there it is.

Because no PhD or formal certification, and no complicated language, you don't believe anyone will get any use out of surface-level musings. (Yes it is just skimming the surface, and I'm not sure how many are confused about that. But the way I'm reading it, you seem to be straw manning the issue.)

Considering so many famous scientists did not have institutional schooling, and this forum focuses a significant amount on education and understanding, outside of college, the requirement for a degree is an odd nitpick. (What requirements have you attributed to acquiring that "Science badge?")
I know, right?. And quote frankly I’m getting a little bit tired of this attitude around here. That other little twit practically derailed my entire thread with his nonsense. This is a forum that’s literally predicated on the notion that you don’t need college to get shit done. The entire forum was built around that ideology. But you have a bunch of sidewalkers who cling to the ideology that college is the only legitimate source of knowledge. Yo it’s 2018. Colleges are done. MOOCs are very quickly replacing them, and honestly I’m not sure why that didn’t happen sooner. University is an antiquated technology. I went to college. Nobody wants to drive 40 minutes to go to sit in a hot sweaty classroom with 50 other kids listening to some no-name Professor drivel on four hours and when there are much better alternatives. Why in god’s name would you do that when you can literally take a MOOC from an Ivy League professor while sitting in your underwear in your kitchen. You can email the professor. You can rewind. If you miss something you can go to that exact lesson. If you’re sick, you just do the class later. It’s on your schedule. The quality of the education is significantly better, and people still want to talk about classroom education.

College is mostly for people who want to learn to copy the solutions other people have come up with. Which is fine, but it’s not so much for people who want to innovate new solutions. It’d for those who want yo follow others’ path rather than forge a new one.

There’s data showing that Valedictorians are some of the least likely to ever become millionaires.

Why valedictorians rarely become rich and famous — and the average millionaire's college GPA was 2.9

Why? They’re good at following directions. Not innovating new solutions.

Bill Gates dropped out of college. Steve Jobs dropped out of college. Mark Zuckerburg.

You don’t become rich by following the path of others. Now that being said, learning is extremely important. As noted below

Actionable advice can come from understanding.
Exactly. If you want to learn how to fix cars, you learn every aspect of how they operate. It’s literally the only way because otherwise you have to ask those who do know.

Among computer people there are three levels of hackers. Called “script kiddy,” “hackers” and “l33t hacker.” “Script kiddies” download other people’s scripts and run them. Like jailbreaking your iPhone. It’s mainly plug and play. Hackers know a bit about computers but are limited by their knowledge. Now the “l33t hackers”? Oh man. They know the ins and outs of computers, how the software works, how the hardware works. So they can find loopholes and exploits to innovate new solutions. They’re the ones who WRITE the program you use to jailbreak your iPhone. The actionable advice comes from knowing the ins and outs.

This thread is actually very personal for me because me? I’m naturally in the ‘slacker’ category. But by biohacking my dopamine levels I’ve been able to accomplish ridiculous amounts of shit. I’ve boosted my income, my energy, my productivity. So again, if people doesn’t want to learn, we’ll see them on the next lap, when we pass them 2x over. Again, like MJ says ‘some people would rather be right than to be rich.” Almost all of these silicone valley billionaires do shit like this (biohacking.) Why? They’ve realize that the key to success is to change your biology. Anyone who wants to hold on to the old way is gonna get left in the dust.
 
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I find the Free Will argument so hilarious. As I type this I’m sitting in the library 2 tables away from a guy who’s literally been having a conversation with himself for the past 35 minutes. But I’m sure he’s choosing to do that. Not a brain issue.


I also find it hard to believe that these brain injury victims are ‘choosing’ to bite, kick and scratch the doctors and nurses who are trying to help them. And who don’t people brain injuries choose to do that?

I've seen this many times as a nurse aide. Different situations, but brain injuries do cause violence, but also diseases of the brain like Cancer or M.S., I've had lots of people try to bite me, kick me, even run after me and attack me on my job. This is quite different though since there usually is a medical condition or some type of event occurred. Which they separate this in certain categories.

Usually they don't have any control over morals, ethics, values, they're not competent enough to function in society and usually why they're not living by themselves. Usually they go through a lot of medical therapy and rehab to evaluate whether they can ever recover.

And on the other hand I've seen people wake up out of coma's for years, and those always amaze me. Some of them can function just fine, and others have issues.
I mean I actually do believe in free will, so I’m actually an outlier. The scientific consensus airs on the side of ‘no.’ Me personally? I believe there’s a narrow corridor of which you have free will. But by understanding how the brain works and biohacking, you significantly widen that corridor.
 

rogue synthetic

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Ah there it is.

Because no PhD or formal certification, and no complicated language, you don't believe anyone will get any use out of surface-level musings. (Yes it is just skimming the surface, and I'm not sure how many are confused about that. But the way I'm reading it, you seem to be straw manning the issue.)

Considering so many famous scientists did not have institutional schooling, and this forum focuses a significant amount on education and understanding, outside of college, the requirement for a degree is an odd nitpick. (What requirements have you attributed to acquiring that "Science badge?")
Let's think about this for a minute.

Don't get mad, stop and breathe. I'm serious. I'm not attacking you here.

Why do you immediately assume I am?

Do you think this kind of response is contributing anything to the positive environment you accused me of not creating? Did you think this through at all or did you just automatically assume I was out to get you and go on the defensive?

Do you think this kind of response is going to motivate me to respond to you positively?

These questions are not insults! If you think these are insults, then there is no point in having this discussion at all. I could literally sit here and call you names for the next 20 posts and it would be the same outcome as any informative posts.

Not all disagreements are going to happen the way you want them, on your terms, agreeing with your ideas. If that's troubling to you, I'm genuinely sorry, but we have nothing else to say to each other.

I'm asking these questions hoping to get you to stop and think about what is going on and why you are reading me as attacking you.

Step back from the thread, get out of your head, and look at it without the attack.

All I said was that there is little reason in fixating on the micro issues in neuroscience if you want to understand behavior. That fixating on them creates an illusion of expertise that is probably missing.

Why the emotional investment?

If you think the Fastlane forum is better than reddit-tier sniping and trotting out the ol' web page of logical fallacies -- and it absolutely is better than that! -- then why even bring it there?

This attitude is EXACTLY the problem! So fast to find fault instead of LISTENING. And you expect to be taken seriously?

When it turns into that I've got zero reason to participate. My ego isn't bruised, but my time and energy has much better uses.

Be what you want to see, friend
.

But.

That goes for me too.


If I came off as condescending or rude, I apologize.

But I'm also making it clear now that this will be the last post if you or anyone else insists on making this a reddit-snarkfest. I have better things to do than be lectured by people who insist on taking everything personally.

Read on, I've got something positive to contribute, promise!

---

As I thought about it I realized there is a good point in some of what you said about the value of the discussion (we can set aside that bit about amateur neuroscientists... if you wouldn't let the well-read janitor do your brain surgery, it's probably a good idea to drop that thought... :)

Maybe there's an opportunity here I didn't think all the way through.

WARNING: This is very long

If you want to know why I think neuro-fantasizing is a case of majoring in the minors, here's a very good and accessible article that introduces some of the difficulties.

The Limits of Neuro-Talk

I'm going to emphasize again that the problem is not with any particular fact. The facts are fine. The interpretations are a whole different matter.

This is going to get into some of the brass tacks of it, but you asked!

You can make a useful analogy with driving a car.

You learned what driving a car meant when you were a kid, watching dad or mom drive. Seeing other cars move around.

You got a little older and you learned what cars and traffic and road rules were, how internal combustion engines work, what a traffic light was, all kinds of facts about cars, how cars work, what people do with them.

Driving a car is something people do. It's something that happens in certain conditions, in certain situations, with lots of other things also going on.

You learned to drive a car by getting behind the wheel.

You learned to fix cars (if you did) by watching your dad, or hanging out with the gear-heads, or becoming a mechanic yourself.

Pay close attention to the difference between the last two lines.

You learned to drive by driving. You learn how the car works by fixing it or maybe designing it if you're more the engineering type.

One way to put it: You don't become a better driver by studying the fuel injectors.

On the other hand if you know what fuel injectors are and what they do, you might be able to fix a problem that's stopping you from driving.

Driving is just the analogy. Substitute in whatever mind-word you'd like: pain, excitement, fear, desire, sensation, thought.

Two problems turn up here. One of them is mostly academic and not too relevant. The other problem is a little more connected to the kinds of questions you mention.

The first thing, just to get it out of the way, is what these words mean. No, I don't mean pointless arguing about definitions. I mean, when I say "red", and you read the word and something comes into your mind, what makes it possible that you understood what red means? This is a big area of debate which I'm not even going to try and tackle here, but one reasonably popular view is that mental words like "pain" or "fear" or "desire" or "thought" aren't words that pick out things.

They're more like skills. You learn how to use them, and when you learn to use them, you're learning a collection of facts, sure... you know which things are painful, what different kinds of pain feel like, I'm sure we could go on for awhile... but they're all the same thing: pain.

This is why the analogy with the word "driving" is helpful. Nobody would confuse driving a car with having a lot of knowledge about how internal combustion engines work.

This raises some pretty serious (to understate the point) issues in neuroscience in so far as what is being explained when some fact is discovered in an fMRI experiment or computational modeling of a neurological process, or whatever.

If you don't get this right, then it can be very much like saying, "oh, driving? That's just what happens when..." and then some nerd spends the next three hours telling you how the engine cranks.

Now the big question mark here is whether the sciences can or should be the only way we say what a mental word means. And most people aren't too happy with this kind of thing: "Oh, pain? No, that's really just..." and you fill out some three-hour explanation of a functional module in the frontal cortex.

Well, first of all, "pain" is nothing that a neuroscientist ever has or ever will discover in the brain. (Have you ever looked at a brain? Very messy, mostly fatty tissue and blood. No pain, though!) That takes a theory to translate the neurological stuff into the psychological words and vice-versa.

Needless to say, this is not something we can just say, "oh, yeah, science figures this out". There's a lot of assumptions built into that, and no science can or does decide the problem. (This also gets into some issues about what explanations are, and even what it means to talk about causality... well outside the scope of this thread which is already far too large.)

Even neuroscientists study stuff like "vision" by taking ordinary eyesight as the thing to be explained... and you don't get that in an MRI. You get it by talking to people, and getting people to tell you what's going on. In short, if you don't get this right you end up doing a real, not just internet yelling, fallacy called begging the question. The explanations end up assuming the truth of what they cliam to prove.

But that's mostly technical stuff, and you're interested in the practical implications.

The second thing then has to do with how the actual knowledge carries out of the sciences into useful/actionable/practical wisdom.

This gets messy because there's not a clear line between the ordinary regular-Joe usage of mental or psychological words and then the real technical usage.

The sciences of mind need words like "warm" or "white" or "dizzy" to have something to explain... and at the same time, scientific findings can update our understanding of what the words mean.

Driving doesn't mean engineering diagrams of a car or models of how fuel injectors work.... but you understand what driving is a little bit better if you know this.

So there's a pendulum swinging back and forth between regular "intuitive" knowledge and technical scientific knowledge.

Now you'd think this would be easier. We discover ABC and now we know XYZ, right?

Let's take your examples from above:

I don't know much about genetics, but found out one side of my family is predisposed to alcoholism. So I stopped drinking altogether when I saw signs of me going down that road. I don't need to know which ACGT sequence is directly responsible for these effects, or if it's even genetic.

I don't know much about neuroscience, but I may even have ADD. If I do, I've managed decently well without any form of medication without it. My friend who does have a PhD and has been a practicing doctor for the past 12 years, couldn't really point to any strong indicator of the fact. But recommended I try a simple natural solution before even considering pills. (There's a strong sense of my ego that doesn't want to admit to it, but it is what it is.)
Awesome. (Seriously, personal congratulations on improving.)

But notice what you've said here: you're basically agreeing with me!

You could figure out a genetic tendency... but it isn't adding to anything you didn't already know. Confirming, giving you a different angle of attack, sure... but you weren't surprised.

This is the issue I'm getting at.

And this is where it gets worrying, because of stuff like this:

The Seductive Allure of Neuroscience Explanations

It's easy to take the shiny new sheen on the popular hotness as authoritative... but never forget we live in a media-created world. MJ calls this a "hyperreality" in his books, and it's as good a word as any.

Like it or not, there's an air of prestige that attaches to "neuro-" anything, and that makes things look more believable than they are.

The thing is, most of the really cutting-edge interesting work in neuroscience is about as far removed from the cognitive/psychological stuff as you could believe... and where it does try to tackle these questions, it's often confused, or opens out into 100 new questions in 50 new directions... and then a journalist gets hold of it and forget it.

This is all very easily highjacked by outright charlatans and well-meaning people. As most things are.

My whole point was that you don't need any of this stuff for the things you're interested in. Sure, in some cases it can be nice to know, and it can help you narrow down the options... but if you're tinkering with the transmission you're not really seeing how the car goes, you know? This may change in the future as the sciences mature, of course... I'm just talking about how things are right now.

I'm not joking when I say you'll learn more about human behavior from writers or poets, or a good salesman or copywriter for that matter, than you will from neuroscientists right now. There's just no straight line from the micro "neuro" to the macro "personal" level, and anybody who thinks otherwise -- I won't say they're wrong, but a) they're making a shaky bet and b) they are very unlikely to discover anything truly interesting or ingenious that you wouldn't discover from studying actual behavior.
 

rogue synthetic

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If you don’t post evidence, I don’t care. If you do, I’ll be happy to reconsider my views.
Sure!

On the subject of explanation in neuroscience in general, you can start with these:

The cognitive neuroscience revolution

https://open-mind.net/papers/levels/getAbstract

https://www.amazon.com/dp/022603979X/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

NO REVOLUTION NECESSARY: NEURAL MECHANISMS FOR ECONOMICS | Economics & Philosophy | Cambridge Core

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0195314883/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

Comments on Bechtel, “Levels of description and explanation in cognitive science”

Integrating psychology and neuroscience: functional analyses as mechanism sketches

Functional analysis and mechanistic explanation

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/661755

On the issues surrounding neuroscientific explanations of cognitive function and high-level behaviors (issues about "free will" would go here), you'll want to have a look at these:

http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/13869795.2013.742556

The embodied brain: towards a radical embodied cognitive neuroscience

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0262661101/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0262516470/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

http://www.jstor.org/stable/188642

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11229-010-9843-y

http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/095150899105747

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11229-008-9388-5

http://www.jstor.org/stable/20118818

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11229-015-0871-5

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389041715000054

http://www.jstor.org/stable/2214202

http://digitalcommons.brockport.edu/phil_ex/vol43/iss1/3/

There's a lot more to look at on this (these are just a few of many deep rabbit holes!) but these are good places to start.
 
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This one is interesting. Researchers took mice from 2 categories... 1 that loved running and the other that hated running and selectively bred them for generations then compared their genetics.

Screen Shot 2018-08-29 at 5.14.46 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-08-29 at 5.14.31 PM.png

Study: We're Closer to Identifying the Genes That Cause Laziness - The Atlantic

The Lazy Gene

From the paper/study:

I don’t post this to argue that laziness is genetic (although it looks like that’s a component,) I post it to show that the genes that seem to have to do with laziness are expressed mostly in the mesolithic dopamergic pathway and Nucleus accumbens (NAc,) which is essentially home to dopamine. You might say “oh well that’s physical activity, not wealth”.. but if you look at my thread FEATURED! - Author spent 5 years interviewing 177 selfmade millionaires to find their secrets. Findings inside. you’ll notice that physical activity correlates very closely with income.
 
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Pay close attention to the difference between the last two lines.



You learned to drive by driving. You learn how the car works by fixing it or maybe designing it if you're more the engineering type.



One way to put it: You don't become a better driver by studying the fuel injectors.



On the other hand if you know what fuel injectors are and what they do, you might be able to fix a problem that's stopping you from driving.



Driving is just the analogy. Substitute in whatever mind-word you'd like: pain, excitement, fear, desire, sensation, thought.
Okay, then let’s take this analogy a step further and find a middle ground.

What if you knew both? What if you knew the ins and outs of car mechanisms AND you practiced driving.

Then you would be able to do a tune up, make sure everything is running properly, maybe even install a turbo!

I don’t think that anyone is suggesting that you stop learning how to drive (how to be good at whatever you do,) the suggestion is that by optimizing your neuroscience/biochemistry you can perform at your peak.

Let’s say you don’t know why it’s important to put 93 test gasoline into an engine that requires it, so you’re putting in 89 test. Or driving with a dirty air filter. Or spark plugs with poor spacing. Or gunky oil.

Or even better you can learn about superchargers, and how to build race engines...

So you absolutely can improve your lap time by studying fuel injectors and everything about the car. The car is important. The car is the difference between a Honda Civic and a Ferrari F430.

Look at some of those Super up Honda Civics... some of them have 800HP and outperform Ferraris.

The problem is some people have the genetics of a stock Civic but want to perform like a Ferrari. Those people HAVE to study cars. They have to bore out the pistons and add a turbo, and change the suspension and but Pirelli tires

Your neurochemistry and biochemistry is important. Period.

You can be the best driver in the world, but if you’re driving a civic, you’re going to have a really tough time. By studying how it works and making changes, you can easily upgrade from a Civic to a Ferrari. This is done through nutrition, exercise, nootropics, meditation, and a number of other methods to actually upgrade YOU as a person.

That’s the purpose of threads like these.

That being said, it is a valid point that knowing how to drive is important.
 
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And I think I’m starting to understand the underlying point you’re making here. I’m sorry, but what makes you think that legitimate research about Dopamine and the Mesolimbic Pathway and Motivation are part of ‘neuromania’

Yea you know why Neuroscience is telling what poets and philosophers have been saying for centuries? Because Poets and philosophers say all sorts of shit. For every philosopher who believes in Free Will, there’s a philosopher who thinks it’s an illusion.

Neuroscience is starting to silence that bullshit and give us answers to all this bullshit these soft ‘sciences’? (they’re not even sciences) have been garbling for millennia. Honestly in my opinion saying that Neuroscience is just telling us what philosophers already knew is akin to saying “Psychics are correct” then puling a list of times psychics were correct. Problem is, for every 1 Psychic who says Donald Trump would win, there’s 2 who said Hillary would win. Philosophers say all sorts of shit. Science is black and white, yes or no.

But the bottom line is, this stuff isn’t “Neuromania” ... Medical Daily isn’t a PopScience magazine and we’re really not getting anywhere with comments like “talking to you about this is like talking to my three year old daughter about the alphabet...” seriously? I have no idea what’s going on with Neuromania or whatever, but what I read are serious research papers about this stuff.

All the evidence suggests that the difference between slackers and go-getters has to do with different areas of the Mesolimbic Dopamine Pathway. By optimizing that pathway (which is exactly what I personally do) this is quite literally boosting your horsepower. The shit literally propels me into action. It makes it so I’m uncomfortable sitting around or action faking. Sure, you still need to know how to drive, but boosting your horsepower from 200 to 700 ain’t gonna F*ckin' hurt either.

In terms of the links that you posted, they’re citations to what claims? What’s the overall thesis to your argument.

if it’s that “you gotta be careful of neuromania”... sure... but there’s also tons of legitimate neuroscience research out there.

the projects digging into that area have yet to provide any finding that isn't either completely irrelevant, a refusal to address the actual hard questions, or just repeating the obvious in technical language that convinces people who like shiny things.

I can’t even fathom where this is true. Neuroscience has uncovered a LOT about psychology etc... I’m really wondering what kinds of studies you read because neuroscience has made tons of insights.

I already stated what the actionable advice is. “Most dopamine, have infinite motivation."

My friend is a Data Scientist was behind this very popular survey:

https://darktka.github.io

motivation.png

All the top nootropics that boosted motivation (Adderall, Methylphenidate, Armodafinil, Modafinil) look up their pharmacology... they work by boosting motivation. if you go back in the thread I listed a number of wats to boost dopamine without using prescription substances, so it’s VERY actionable. If you want to know even more ways, it’s very easy to research. It’s very simple for those who didn’t read the lines.. when a slacker boosts dopamine, they become a go-getter. It doesn't get more actionable than that.
 

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Roli

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They do. Adrenal and Ritalin are designed to do that.

But that's a really bad idea if you don't actually have ADHD because your body because your body become accustomed to them and you wind up with way LESS motivation than you started with. Bad news.

If you really wanna boost dopamine in a natural way, look into L-Tyrosine.

L-Tyrosine Uses for Energy, Stress, Motivation and Focus

http://www.limitlessmindset.com/nootropic-ingredients/323-l-tyrosine.html
Great thread Chris, I have been thinking of questions for your other psychology thread...

What's your experience with tyrosine? I think I'm going to try it, Modafinil is getting a bit old; well it isn't, but I need something else...
 
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Great thread Chris, I have been thinking of questions for your other psychology thread...



What's your experience with tyrosine? I think I'm going to try it, Modafinil is getting a bit old; well it isn't, but I need something else...
Yea, I take Armodafinil (dopamine reuptake inhibitor) and i find that the effectiveness diminishes over time. What do you think? Taking breaks on the weekend is essential I find.

I’ve had luck with Matcha Tea too

Matcha Tea (and less so green tea) binds to an enzyme called COMT which is the primary enzyme that degrades dopamine in the Prefrontal Cortex (center for higher-level thinking)

Worrier or Warrior? Explaining The COMT V158M Gene (rs4680) - Selfhacked

My experience with tyrosine is that it works for a while then stops. But it seems to replete certain chemicals that can get depleted, so if you’re one of those who are depleted it’s basically essential. And for the price I definitely think it’s worth a shot
 

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I can’t even fathom where this is true. Neuroscience has uncovered a LOT about psychology etc... I’m really wondering what kinds of studies you read because neuroscience has made tons of insights.
Show me one that has demonstrated a genuinely new fact about human behavior that wasn't already known to people before 1900.

EDIT: You know what? Don't worry about it. I think this has run its course... you really just want to have a thread about nootropics and "biohacking", which is really what you should have just said in the first place... this really wasn't ever about neuroscience, so I don't really see the point in throwing papers back and forth to no purpose.
 

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Yea, I take Armodafinil (dopamine reuptake inhibitor) and i find that the effectiveness diminishes over time. What do you think? Taking breaks on the weekend is essential I find.
I actually switched back to good old fashioned Modafinil from Armodafinil, I found the latter even though it was cleaner, just wasn't strong enough over time.

Totally agree about weekend breaks, sometimes midweek as well. Plus I'll throw in the odd 2-4 week break as well.

I also find the effects can be cumulative, so now and again I'll be working away and then realise I haven't taken it yet but I'm still in that 'deep' mode.

Matcha Tea (and less so green tea) binds to an enzyme called COMT which is the primary enzyme that degrades dopamine in the Prefrontal Cortex (center for higher-level thinking)
Have not heard of Matcha, I take green tea most mornings. Thanks for the article link will read now.

My experience with tyrosine is that it works for a while then stops. But it seems to replete certain chemicals that can get depleted, so if you’re one of those who are depleted it’s basically essential. And for the price I definitely think it’s worth a shot
I am definitely one who has been depleted mainly via my (ahem) earlier life. I'm going to see if my guys have it, otherwise I'll use your link.

Do they do Bitcoin discounts?
 

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I listed a number of wats to boost dopamine without using prescription substances
Can you point me to them or relist please?
 
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I actually switched back to good old fashioned Modafinil from Armodafinil, I found the latter even though it was cleaner, just wasn't strong enough over time.
Hmm, maybe that’s my issue? Because when I first started taking it it was motivation for days. But after a while the efficacy waned.


Have not heard of Matcha, I take green tea most mornings. Thanks for the article link will read now.
Matcha and green tea are very similar, except Matcha is much stronger. Okay, when you make green tea, they take the leaves, chop ‘em up, and you steep them. Matcha, they just grind the leaves into a powder and you drink the whole powder. Has a really good taste.

How do you find the Green Tea affect your motivation?


I am definitely one who has been depleted mainly via my (ahem) earlier life.
Ha.


I'm going to see if my guys have it, otherwise I'll use your link.

Do they do Bitcoin discounts?
Which link? The COMT one was an article.

Also, I think you’d really like this thread too:

Absolute best Nootropics (Smart Drugs) for boosting Motivation, Memory, Focus and Mood
 
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Can you point me to them or relist please?
Exercise - Not only does it boost DA, but in addition exercise increases the number of receptors in the brain which actually has very very very pronounced effects.. it essentially raises DA neurotransmission exponentially [1] [2] [3]
setting small goals (breaking your big goals into chunks)
eat protein (foods high in phenylalanine/tyrosine)
reduce saturated fat [1] (but saturated fat is NOT as evil as the media make it out to be so wouldn’t go crazy)

One study found that rats that consumed 50% of their calories from saturated fat had reduced dopamine signaling in the reward areas of their brain, compared to animals receiving the same amount of calories from unsaturated fat
Probiotics [1] [2]
Velvet Beans [1] Parkinsons is caused by dopamine dysfunction
8 hours sleep
Listen to music [1] [2] [3]
Meditation [1] (This study found a SIXTY-FIVE PERCENT increase in dopamine release after meditation!
Plenty of sunlight! [1] [2]
Reduce sugar (sugar causes a dopamine spike, but down regulates receptors.. causing really bad long-term effects)
Supplements: L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalinine, L-theanine, Phosphatidylserine, Curcumin, Ginkgo Biloba, Mucuna Pruriens, More: 54 Supplements & Drugs/Agonists to Increase Dopamine - Selfhacked (Selfhacked is a great resource for stuff like this

Sorry I didn’t cite everything but it’s easily verifiable. Like if you type in “Sleep and dopamine” or “small goals dopamine" into Google the studies should pop right up.
 
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Okay guys, here is a big one.

Changing your Locus of Control.

It’s probably my overarching point of this thread.


From @MJ DeMarco ’s book The Millionaire Fastlane in Chapter 9, the chapter about slowlaners mentality:

Wealth Demands Accountability

"After faith in luck and events, blame is the third anchor to the Sidewalk.

THE LAW OF VICTIMS

People who don’t take responsibility are victims. Some of them are born victims and, instead of trying to improve their hand, they fold and give up. For them, everyone has the solution to their problems but them. And their problems? Not their fault. Nope, someone else is to blame. Instead of looking within, they look outward and project responsibility to some other entity. Victims are Sidewalkers who refuse to take the driver’s seat of their own lives and live under a dark cloud of “theys” reflective of a “me against them” attitude.

“They laid me off.”
“They changed the terms.” “They cheated me.”
“They didn’t tell me.”
“They raised my rent.”
“They raised my interest rate.”

Invariably, all these “theys” are self-imposed."


In psychology there is a concept known as Locus of Control.

'In personality psychology, locus of control is the degree to which people believe that they have control over the outcome of events in their lives, as opposed to external forces beyond their control.

A person's "loci" (plural of "locus", Latin for "place" or "location") are conceptualized as internal (a belief that one's life can be controlled) or external (a belief that life is controlled by outside factors which they cannot influence, or that chance or fate controls their lives).

Individuals with a strong internal locus of control believe events in their life derive primarily from their own actions: for example, when receiving exam results, people with an internal locus of control tend to praise or blame themselves and their abilities. People with a strong external locus of control tend to praise or blame external factors such as the teacher or the exam.'​

Now what does this have to do with the thread? Well, Homovanillic acid (pHVA) is a measure of dopamine/catacholamine metabolites. Its usually used as a proxy to measure how much dopamine a person ‘has.'

Abstract
This study investigates the relationship between dopamine metabolism and a personality trait, the locus of control. For 29 primary breast cancer patients who are otherwise normally functioning, plasma concentrations of homovanillic acid (pHVA) levels and locus of control on the Rotter internal–external scale were determined. The results indicate that pHVA is significantly associated with locus of control, with pHVA levels increasing for more externally oriented individuals. This relationship held true when age and four different stress-related measures were partialled out. These findings are discussed with respect to individual differences in higher cognitive functions requiring sustained prefrontal cortical activity, and a neural model of central dopamine regulation.
Homovanillic acid (HVA) is a major catecholamine metabolite that is produced by a consecutive action of monoamine oxidase and catechol-O-methyltransferase on dopamine.[1] Homovanillic acid is used as a reagent to detect oxidative enzymes, and is associated with dopamine levels in the brain.

In other words, people with an external locus of control (blamers) break down dopamine faster. MAO and COMT are the main enzymes that break down dopamine. Technical breakdown for those interested:

Noradrenaline_breakdown.svg.png

Bottom line? People who have a internal locus of control have higher dopamine.
A possible role of central dopamine metabolism associated with individual differences in locus of control | Request PDF

In another study researchers gave participants a drug (Talcapone) that inhibits the COMT enzyme, and slows the breakdown of dopamine in the brain. What were the effects?

'In this study of the exploration-exploitation tradeoff, the randomized, double-blind, counterbalanced, within-subject administration of the COMT inhibitor tolcapone significantly increased exploration, particularly in Met/Met subjects relative to placebo, and the drug effect was significantly greater than in Val/Val subjects. Likewise, scores on a behavioral measure, Rotter's LOC scale, correlated with the magnitude of exploration effects: relative to subjects with a more internal LOC, subjects with a more external LOC showed both reduced exploration in the placebo condition, and increased exploration on tolcapone vs placebo. Although these effects will certainly benefit from replication in independent data sets, the influence of tolcapone in these subjects supports both the role of presumptively frontal dopamine in these behaviors and the structure of the computational models used to study them. We address each of these issues in turn.

The third point is directly addressed by LOC. Subjects who have a greater sense of agency—who believe that their choices can determine future events—showed a greater tendency to explore in the placebo condition than subjects who had a more external LOC (Figure 4). In contrast, subjects with an external LOC showed a greater response to tolcapone.

Why should tolcapone have this effect? Underlying the motivation for studying tolcapone's influence on exploration is a theoretical framework in which increases in dopamine within PFC lead to improved cognitive control.

Specifically, those subjects with a more external LOC showed reduced exploration at baseline, but they differentially improved when tolcapone augmented dopamine tone. In contrast, subjects with a more internal LOC showed no improvement on drug.

In conclusion, our data demonstrate that subjects with the Met/Met genotype at the Val159Met allele, as well as subjects with a more external LOC measure, showed significant increases in exploration on tolcapone vs placebo.'
Dopamine, Locus of Control, and the Exploration-Exploitation Tradeoff

If anyone wants me to explain this study better, I will. Basically there’s a specific genotype of people who produce a version COMT that’s incredibly efficient. It breaks down Dopamine 4x as fast as normal people. I (unfortunately) have this gene, which is part of the reason I’ve researched it so heavily.

Essentially if you have the COMT gene that breaks down dopamine too fast in the PFC, inhibiting COMT will move you from an external Locus of Control to an Internal.


npp2014193f4.jpg


Which is why I recommended Matcha Tea/Green Tea

Enzymology of Methylation of Tea Catechins and Inhibition of Catechol-O-methyltransferase by (−)-Epigallocatechin Gallate

COMT inhibitors are found in green tea. Drinking green tea is, therefore, thought to provide a useful short-term boost to antidepressant medication by increasing the half life of extracellular noradrenaline and dopamine.
Catechol-o-methyltransferase

Dual Beneficial Effects of (-)-Epigallocatechin-3-Gallate on Levodopa Methylation and Hippocampal Neurodegeneration: In Vitro and In Vivo Studies

Inhibition of catechol-O-methyltransferase activity in human breast cancer cells enhances the biological effect of the green tea polyphenol (-)-EGCG

A multitude of treatments, from pharmaceutical COMT inhibitors (tolcapone, entacapone), to green tea and epigallocatechin gallate (ECGC), can inhibit COMT activity, thereby elevating catecholamines. Theoretically, treatment with methylfolate would have the same effect.

COMT activity is inhibited by calcium and iron. While an effective potential treatment, others need to be discovered.​

Move Over, MTHFR: Time to Look at COMT – Naturopathic Doctor News and Review

COMT Inhibitor Synergy - Brain Health - LONGECITY


Sorry I’d this is a bit technical, but if anyone wants me to explain further, I’d be glad to.
 
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not just dopamine

SEROTONIN!!!!!

Serotonin makes you happy, gives you self-worth, makes you aware, gives you an appetite, and makes you want to succeed!

I was born with Tourettes, so I have an overabundance of dopamine, but low serotonin BY DEFAULT!

And I say by default because I overcome it constantly. I REFUSE to let it define me. My body and mind are just a vessel of a higher power, and it must be under my control!!

Most of my life, I was shy and apprehensive. I wasn't motivated because I would always seek instant gratification. Hence the overactive dopamine.

When I started to train myself to do hard shit, my usual depressive mood disappeared. I'm a fireball of drive at times. Serotonin controls the amount of dopamine present, so with more of it, I get relief from symptoms.

It's still a challenge to this day, but I keep at it. I'm always challenging myself and I refuse to feel sorry for myself.

If I can do it, so can you. Anyone can become a go-getter if they will it.

Sacrifice who you are today for who you can be tomorrow
 

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Exercise - Not only does it boost DA, but in addition exercise increases the number of receptors in the brain which actually has very very very pronounced effects.. it essentially raises DA neurotransmission exponentially [1] [2] [3]
setting small goals (breaking your big goals into chunks)
eat protein (foods high in phenylalanine/tyrosine)
reduce saturated fat [1] (but saturated fat is NOT as evil as the media make it out to be so wouldn’t go crazy)

One study found that rats that consumed 50% of their calories from saturated fat had reduced dopamine signaling in the reward areas of their brain, compared to animals receiving the same amount of calories from unsaturated fat
Probiotics [1] [2]
Velvet Beans [1] Parkinsons is caused by dopamine dysfunction
8 hours sleep
Listen to music [1] [2] [3]
Meditation [1] (This study found a SIXTY-FIVE PERCENT increase in dopamine release after meditation!
Plenty of sunlight! [1] [2]
Reduce sugar (sugar causes a dopamine spike, but down regulates receptors.. causing really bad long-term effects)
Supplements: L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalinine, L-theanine, Phosphatidylserine, Curcumin, Ginkgo Biloba, Mucuna Pruriens, More: 54 Supplements & Drugs/Agonists to Increase Dopamine - Selfhacked (Selfhacked is a great resource for stuff like this

Sorry I didn’t cite everything but it’s easily verifiable. Like if you type in “Sleep and dopamine” or “small goals dopamine" into Google the studies should pop right up.
Awesome!! Thanks again, it's great to know I'm doing a lot of these. I meditate, I exercise daily and I have recently cut down on the sugar.

Now I just have to sort the supplements out and eat the foods you suggest.

As they say, you are what you eat...

Oh by the way, what do you think of omega-5 as opposed to 3, any particular benefits that I should consider? Or are they much of a muchness?
 

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Awesome!! Thanks again, it's great to know I'm doing a lot of these. I meditate, I exercise daily and I have recently cut down on the sugar.

Now I just have to sort the supplements out and eat the foods you suggest.

As they say, you are what you eat...

Oh by the way, what do you think of omega-5 as opposed to 3, any particular benefits that I should consider? Or are they much of a muchness?
Do you mean Omega 6? Omega 6 you shouldn’t have to supplement because we usually get enough from diet, but they’re two different things. You need them is specific ratios.

The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids. - PubMed - NCBI

How to Optimize Your Omega-6 to Omega-3 Ratio

It’s the ratio that’s important.
 

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How do you find the Green Tea affect your motivation?
It doesn't really do much for me motivation-wise. However if I'm writing, I find it really good for creativity. I zone in and my fingers seem to skip over the keys and create a kind of idea-typing feedback loop. It's hard to explain...

I've tried drinking it in the afternoon as opposed to first thing and it really doesn't seem to do as much for me.

Which link? The COMT one was an article.
Oh the tyrosine one, I had a quick look, I think it led to a nootropics shop right?

Thanks for the link, will read now.
 

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Yikes, this thread started 3 years ago.

Anyhow, upgrading to NOTABLE due to all the effort, charts, links, and references posted. It's a tangled web of information, if anyone wants to sort it out, it could be helpful. For instance, the Locus of Control concept is significant to understand for success.
 
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It's a tangled web of information, if anyone wants to sort it out, it could be helpful.
I’ll rewrite this post into something more coherent and comprehensive because yes, I do think it’s major.

I started just posting the article, but it evolved into something else entirely.

I’ll start sorting it out when I have a few minutes.
 

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I haven't had the time recently to read too much, but this just came out: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

Individuals differ in their ability to initiate self- and emotional-control mechanisms. These differences have been explicitly described in Kuhl’s action-control theory. Although interindividual differences in action control make a major contribution to our everyday life, their neural foundation remains unknown. Here, we measured action control in a sample of 264 healthy adults and related interindividual differences in action control to variations in brain structure and resting-state connectivity. Our results demonstrate a significant negative correlation between decision-related action orientation (AOD) and amygdala volume. Further, we showed that the functional resting-state connectivity between the amygdala and the dorsal anterior cingulate cortex was significantly associated with AOD. Specifically, stronger functional connectivity was associated with higher AOD scores. These findings are the first to show that interindividual differences in action control, namely AOD, are based on the anatomical architecture and functional network of the amygdala.
 
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I haven't had the time recently to read too much, but this just came out: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research
Hmmmmm, that’s the second time you cited research correlating amygdala volume to success.

I have read research that neuroticism negatively correlates with basically everything you could possibly want in life. Income, career, marital satisfaction.

Income:

Participants high in Neuroticism reported lower annual incomes, whereas those high in Conscientiousness reported earning more. Both relations held when controlling for sex, ethnicity, age, and education.
Job:

our empirical findings reveal that the personality traits Conscientiousness and Neuroticism have a strong impact on the instantaneous probability of finding a job, where the former has a positive effect and the latter has a negative effect. The direction of the effect on the subsequent employment duration is the opposite.
Marriage:

While previous research points to a central role of neuroticism, our findings suggest that conscientiousness is the trait most broadly associated with marital satisfaction in this sample of long-wed couples.
And I’m sure neuroticism has major roots in that part of the brain... i mean considering its the fear center.
 
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Hmmmmm, that’s the second time you cited research correlating amygdala volume to success.

I have read research that neuroticism negatively correlates with basically everything you could possibly want in life. Income, career, marital satisfaction.

Income:

Participants high in Neuroticism reported lower annual incomes, whereas those high in Conscientiousness reported earning more. Both relations held when controlling for sex, ethnicity, age, and education.
Job:

our empirical findings reveal that the personality traits Conscientiousness and Neuroticism have a strong impact on the instantaneous probability of finding a job, where the former has a positive effect and the latter has a negative effect. The direction of the effect on the subsequent employment duration is the opposite.
Marriage:

While previous research points to a central role of neuroticism, our findings suggest that conscientiousness is the trait most broadly associated with marital satisfaction in this sample of long-wed couples.
And I’m sure neuroticism has major roots in that part of the brain... i mean considering its the fear center.
I saw this a decade ago and it still sticks in my mind to this day:


TLDR: A guy lost his ability to feel emotion, and when asked to pick where he wanted to eat. Well, after 20 min, he still hadn't made a decision.

There's also his book that's been on my reading list for quite some time. Descartes' Error by Damasio
 
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I saw this a decade ago and it still sticks in my mind to this day:


TLDR: A guy lost his ability to feel emotion, and when asked to pick where he wanted to eat. Well, after 20 min, he still hadn't made a decision.

There's also his book that's been on my reading list for quite some time. Descartes' Error by Damasio

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KT104RI/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

Not sure if you read this (it’s on the Fastlane Favorite Books list too) but they talk about a few people who idon’thave the ability to feel pain. Spoiler alert: it’s really bad.

And what he’s saying illustrates what I’ve always said about emotions... we make decisions 100% with emotions. Logic just helps us figure out which choice will feel better.

Even if you make a decision purely logically, it’s still a shortcut to emotions. “im buying this car because it has better gas mileage, see it’s logical.” Gas costs money. Losing money makes feel bad.
 
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There is a correlation between testosterone and success. Does that mean one who has low testosterone shouldn't try to get success? No. It will just be harder. It is a classic example of where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The more you workout, the leaner you get, thus the more testosterone you produce, which helps you lose fat and build muscle and gives you motivation to workout, thus the leaner you get, and the more testosterone you get and on and on.
The opposite is true. The fatter you get, the less motivated you get, the more estrogen you get, which makes you get fatter and lose muscle, which makes you less motivated to workout, which makes you weaker, which makes you build less muscle, which lowers testosterone, which makes you gain fat, which makes you get estrogen and on and on. (this paragraph gave me nightmares lol).
 

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