Two types of failing

[Wuz]

Hi


i´ve read in articles and books that failing is most of the times essential for a person to succeed, to get stronger and learn a lot.

And i agree with that.

But i think there is one spectrum of failing that can lead to frustration.

If you fail in a business that you put a significant amount of time and effort to testing and see if the market wants the service/product , you will learn a lot. You will be aware of new resources, maybe meet some new people and develop some good virtues during the process.


Now comes the other spectrum. Suppose you jump from business to business at a huge speed rate.

You take a idea , start working on it, but then after the excitement is over you say to yourself "meh, this is boring, i saw other person in a article that succeed in self publishing/ importing/ info products etc. I think i just need to change route.



In my opinion this second approach will lead to a type of failure that lead only to frustration, because you learn little and you take little from that experience.


I think we all must walk the talk and not just come to the forum saying pretty things. So i decide to present this point of view to see if you good people have something to say about it.



Reflections about whether we should continue or not working in a idea are good, because it can makes us see some flaw in our execution and see if there is really a need for what we are doing.



but in other hand if you re not carefull you can find yourself changing idea from idea and get little results.

Im guilty on this, i´m no angel. I did this in the past, and from time to time it a little voice tells me to change idea, because x and y entrepreneur did it in less time.



nowadays we see plenty of success stories , its easy to quit and go to other courses-


Something that people really want, takes time to build. iF we dont give the time and effort it takes to build something since the beginning until the end, we will find ourselves failing and failing and have no return in our investments of resources and time.



It is a big risk give years to a project . This is why you dont see millionaires in every corner.

A lot of risk, and at the end nobody guarantees nothing.


But if we are not willing to take that risk, and decide to take the route that promise quick money, you re only fooling yourself.

 

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[Mattie]

I love diversity and change, which is essential in any business. You have to change to keep up with times. On the other hand if you mean stopping a business before you've ever hit the finish line. That is a bad habit to perform. I can see if you have conquered every obstacle and pushed the limits and it's a very bad deal, yes than it might be wise to end a project and move on to the next.

If you're just stopping and starting it just becomes a habit and you really never grow or accomplish much. Which comes down to how bad do you want it? How many excuses will you make why you stopped before success? It's all a careful balance of what is it you are trying to accomplish and what is it your focusing on. You can have a business, but change things to make it better or expand into other areas. It just determines what your project is in the first place.

 

[Wuz]

I love diversity and change, which is essential in any business. You have to change to keep up with times. On the other hand if you mean stopping a business before you've ever hit the finish line. That is a bad habit to perform. I can see if you have conquered every obstacle and pushed the limits and it's a very bad deal, yes than it might be wise to end a project and move on to the next.

If you're just stopping and starting it just becomes a habit and you really never grow or accomplish much. Which comes down to how bad do you want it? How many excuses will you make why you stopped before success? It's all a careful balance of what is it you are trying to accomplish and what is it your focusing on. You can have a business, but change things to make it better or expand into other areas. It just determines what your project is in the first place.

Striking the balance between push beyond the limits and quitting when its time to do it, is the really challenge.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

You take a idea , start working on it, but then after the excitement is over you say to yourself "meh, this is boring, i saw other person in a article that succeed in self publishing/ importing/ info products etc. I think i just need to change route.

Process is the ultimate dream-killer. Money chasing, another dream-killer. Expectation, another dream-killer.

The new buzzword in entrepreneurial circles is "validation" -- IMO, it sets you up to think business as another shortcut, one that keeps process thwarted. "Oh, it didn't validate! Onto the next great idea!"

 

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[RogueInnovation]

Striking the balance between push beyond the limits and quitting when its time to do it, is the really challenge

There is a space where you sing and dance

I have a huge business I'm undertaking, but I also have a regular fastlane
And a really well set up freelancing job (while I bootstrap)

The regular fastlane is sooooooooooooooo easy compared to my big business that I sing and dance and don't care.
Sometimes you need to push the wall, and behind you everything becomes easier to balance.

Btw, great insights there Wuz

 

[Wuz]

Process is the ultimate dream-killer. Money chasing, another dream-killer. Expectation, another dream-killer.

The new buzzword in entrepreneurial circles is "validation" -- IMO, it sets you up to think business as another shortcut, one that keeps process thwarted. "Oh, it didn't validate! Onto the next great idea!"

"Process is the ultimate dream-killer."

I understand the money chasing and expectation, but the "process- dream killer", what do you mean by that? Failing in evaluating the process we are executing can lead to disappointment?



"The new buzzword in entrepreneurial circles is "validation"

The concept you re talking is "Lean start up" right?


I think it is a good approach, in a world where new business are born every day , people really cant give themselves the luxury to pursue an idea even after the market say "no".


but in the other hand, if Henry Ford had created a "landing page" to test his product, probably it would be a total failure. People dont like change.



THis is why i convince myself everyday that business is with no doubt an Art. Many people already said that, but still people people like to look it as a "step-by step"-

 

[Wuz]

There is a space where you sing and dance

I have a huge business I'm undertaking, but I also have a regular fastlane
And a really well set up freelancing job (while I bootstrap)

The regular fastlane is sooooooooooooooo easy compared to my big business that I sing and dance and don't care.
Sometimes you need to push the wall, and behind you everything becomes easier to balance.

Btw, great insights there Wuz

Thanks RogueInnovation

 

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[Mattie]

Before I came to the Netherlands: A wise Entrepreneur talked about once you've become the best at something and you've reached your limits, there is no use continuing on with that place. You've already met that challenge. You move on to the next challenge. I don't suppose he ever got bored with so many companies all over the world. What was smart about him, is he knew the best winners in life didn't always come from rich homes and have pockets filled with cash. He never underestimated the motivation and intention behind someone society may call a side walker.

Boredom always comes. I get bored in certain moments. I just don't allow it to control my choices or act on boredom. It is discipline, the process, staying focused on the goal, and not allowing others to distract your balance, and cutting them loose when necessary to accomplish the goal. Selective with the right moves at the right time, and knowing your skill, and having the right teachers. Failure is really another illusion like fear. Failure is just a landing spot, you get up and dust yourself off and keep moving ahead. You're not going to die if you fail unless you're playing with weapons, drugs, or something stupid. It's not the end of the world if you lose money or materialism. The earth doesn't shatter because you make mistakes.

There maybe consequences, obstacles, and hurdles. You created them. Get over them. Your business is your creation. You get to create what ever you would like to create, and in any shape or form. You are the artist. You can paint it black and white, or a rainbow of colors. You can chase after money, or be sensible. It's your emotional and mental attachments to the outcome that mess you up.

 

[RogueInnovation]

There maybe consequences, obstacles, and hurdles. You created them. Get over them. Your business is your creation. You get to create what ever you would like to create, and in any shape or form. You are the artist. You can paint it black and white, or a rainbow of colors. You can chase after money, or be sensible. It's your emotional and mental attachments to the outcome that mess you up

Nice,
I've definately found that the attatchment was the worst part of my fear of failure. And I had to realise that there were many possibilities not just the ones I invented. Its hard but you come to terms with all this mix of paths and destination you don't want to go down and you set a focus on the one you do, and it stays in your mind.

That one focus, the added kaizen, the will to keep going. It all pushes your boundaries until there is a lot of money behind you to scoop up.

 

[amk]

The new buzzword in entrepreneurial circles is "validation" -- IMO, it sets you up to think business as another shortcut, one that keeps process thwarted. "Oh, it didn't validate! Onto the next great idea!"

This thought crossed my mind a few weeks ago, frustrated by my lack of progress towards... Anything.

It is much more fun playing "entrepreneur" and trying to validate anything/"finding" a product, than it is rolling up your sleeves and building something of value. No matter how small the value.

From personal experience, I know if I would have spent the last 6 years producing something (anything!!) and letting that market direct me little by little, I'd be a lot further than I am today (constantly trying to "figure out" what the market wants, what would they pay for, how much would they pay?).

In recent weeks, I've decided I'm done reading/learning/validating/paying for guru courses/research tools (adbeat/moz/semrush/etc). Time to roll up the sleeves & get to work.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I think it is a good approach, in a world where new business are born every day , people really cant give themselves the luxury to pursue an idea even after the market say "no".

Sorry, but usually the market is saying "NO" not to the product, but to the presentation or the execution. The time needed to invest into the process (and discover it's presentation/execution over product) they've already quit and moved on to the next idea. I'm not saying the "validation" is not important, but I believe it's more of an excuse for wantrepreneurs to give up and move on to the next greatest idea.

"Process is the ultimate dream-killer."

Lack of process. I don't think throwing up a landing page and sending 100 clicks to it is a process.

This thought crossed my mind a few weeks ago, frustrated by my lack of progress towards... Anything.

When you believe in your product, you'll push your process to maximum utility despite what "validation" says. And **if** you do give up, you give up not because of a lack of validation, but because you know you have tried everything 100%, the failure is indeed in product, not execution, presentation, or anything else.

 

[AllenCrawley]

^^^ Someone just dropped a bomb on ya'll.

Well stated MJ.

 

[Marc B.]

[...]**if** you do give up, you give up not because of a lack of validation, but because you know you have tried everything 100%, the failure is indeed in product, not execution, presentation, or anything else.

I'm glad you made that clear. I've wondered "at what point do I stop putting time and money into this business?" I know that I abandoned one of my last ventures too early and don't want to repeat that mistake if there is still room for improvement.

 

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[chrischapman]

How to make millions of dollars:

1. Have a product that provides value to people
2. Distribute product (marketing/fulfillment) and exchange for $$$ (the hard bit)
3. persist

 

[Mattie]

hmm...I already learned this stuff already. Sorry, know bombing here. No offense. You learn this when you go through a lot of obstacles in life. After you've been through them so much, it's just natural. I'm just lining up the money with the mind now. So "Ya'll" is a big statement.

Perhaps some of them...

I would think if people weren't dedicated, devoted, or have some good habits, they wouldn't have found their way here. Sure there is room for improvement. Lots to learn. Lots to apply.

 

[AllenCrawley]

hmm...I already learned this stuff already. Sorry, know bombing here. No offense. You learn this when you go through a lot of obstacles in life. After you've been through them so much, it's just natural. I'm just lining up the money with the mind now. So "Ya'll" is a big statement.

Perhaps some of them...

I would think if people weren't dedicated, devoted, or have some good habits, they wouldn't have found their way here. Sure there is room for improvement. Lots to learn. Lots to apply.

Hmmm.... I think I was referring to those that were seeking clarification but that's ok.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I would think if people weren't dedicated, devoted, or have some good habits, they wouldn't have found their way here.

LOL. Frankly as much as I'd like to agree, it's not true.

Spend 10 minutes reading some of the posts in the introduction forum. Count how many "one and done" users there are that post "I'm switching to the Fastlane!! Woo haa!!!! My life has changed! Can't wait to contribute!!!" And then 24 hours later, they're gone. One and done. Twenty four hours is all it takes for "life" to get in the way.

 

[Mattie]

Yes...those one maybe so...he's pointing to a group of people in the forum. In this thread. So yes...There are tons of people out there that find it hard. Is the introduction forum on the outside, or inside? I suppose you can waste money too...and not stick around.

Have you ever taken a survey to ask why they leave? What were they expecting? What were they looking for? What was their intention? What was their motivation for being here? What did they want to get out of it? Was it because they were bored? Was it because they were lazy? Life happen? Is just one reason. So any business evaluates their product or service. What they, customer wants?

 

[chrischapman]

"I'm switching to the Fastlane!! Woo haa!!!! My life has changed! Can't wait to contribute!!!"

i'm lolling right now ty for the lol

 

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[chrischapman]

Two types of failure, imho, are rooted in failing to comprehend a fundamental truth about the fastlane, explicated in Think and Grow Rich and TMF , but most people miss it.

This truth is that if you want something in life such as a fastlane business, lots of money or some skill/possession, then you can get it if you have a very specific, clearly outlined goal and method of attaining that goal and strive with persistence to make that goal a reality. It is NOT about some airy fairy desire or general excitedness or enthusiasm. It is all about specifics and process driven by focus and determination. That is why the last part of MJ's book is about the specific nuts and bolts of business functions i.e. marketing, customer service etc.

The whole idea of hopping onto the fastlane is quite romantic in many peoples' minds and very alluring. I can't blame a lot of people for thinking they can reach for the stars and touch them because you, @MJ DeMarco , have proven and shown in your book that it is completely possible.

There absolutely has to be a realisation that almost everything they we have been taught is wrong. It is necessary so we can get the wantrepreneurial mindset and 'dream big'. BUT, and this is a big BUT which most people completely miss, there simultaneously must be a specific crystalised objective, a plan and process and a rock solid determination to execute that objective which feeds off of that mindset. Without that, the fire dies and withers into the pipe dream that is usually is.

 

[garysvpa]

I love diversity and change, which is essential in any business. You have to change to keep up with times. On the other hand if you mean stopping a business before you've ever hit the finish line. That is a bad habit to perform. I can see if you have conquered every obstacle and pushed the limits and it's a very bad deal, yes than it might be wise to end a project and move on to the next.

If you're just stopping and starting it just becomes a habit and you really never grow or accomplish much. Which comes down to how bad do you want it? How many excuses will you make why you stopped before success? It's all a careful balance of what is it you are trying to accomplish and what is it your focusing on. You can have a business, but change things to make it better or expand into other areas. It just determines what your project is in the first place.

how would I know when to stop, and when to keep trying?

 

[jpmartin]

When you believe in your product, you'll push your process to maximum utility despite what "validation" says. And **if** you do give up, you give up not because of a lack of validation, but because you know you have tried everything 100%, the failure is indeed in product, not execution, presentation, or anything else.

MJ, thanks for clarifying those two points, i.e. process as dream killer and validation.

I used to advice the next generation (no, I'm not that old - but want to see them succeed, because I didn't have the resources we have like this forum those days) that you WONT know what you want when you start your career (again, career/job... bad advice!) - so it's ok to try something, and then jumping onto something else and 'discovering' what you like doing... but I reminded them, they would have to find something they like doing fast - otherwise they could spend the next 10 years jumping around, when some of their friends 'figured out what they wanted to do' earlier on and spent the remaining 9 years bettering themselves and their craft and reaching the heights of their craft/business/job (thanks to the 10,000 hours).

But what you say above also reminds me of what Rand Fishkin of Moz said regarding him starting videos on his site. Based on key metrics - he would have dropped the idea, but they felt that it was growing - and so he continued, pursued, and triumphed - today he says that he generates a lot of business just because of those videos - something he would have otherwise dropped - because it wasn't 'validating'!

If I recall, when Dropbox was starting out, it was thrashed on Hackernews. Today, it's a billion dollar company... so much for validation eh!

You're right, we're more like headless chickens looking how to find something and scale fast. On one side you use competition to validate, if there's competition in the market - then its worth doing, only better, better execution - myspace vs. facebook. On the other side, you want to innovate - go where no man has gone before...

I think this thread could be a gold, if others could share their experience and thoughts on validation.

 

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[Jam Wheel]

I think the buzz word of validation is coming from the startup software companies chasing the big money and the internal corporate teams building/expanding on new products. Most everyone in this space is going to be facing the constraints of business plans/pitches/cases and the money men won't listen unless you've got hard facts to back up a choice and ain't none of them like risk. So sure, a concept can be "validated" and pursued and then fails because the vetting process doesn't actually capture non-empirical evidence like "gut feeling". Gut feeling can only be developed through intimate time in market.

Regarding the "one and done"ers - TFLF reminds me of a weight loss forum. Probably has the same distribution of users too with X% of the single thought proclaimers that leave when they realize this may all involve WORK, a small % of high achievers who worked the prescription to their strengths, and the bulk in the middle interested in striving and learning more. I've watched a friend with zero will-power and a complete inability to set up systems and standards fail at multiple diets this year because it required too much work. Always on the first day she was a cheerleader for the latest diet, but inevitably I would come across her eating fast food a week later, having failed at yet another diet.

amk - right there with you buddy in that frustration level. Time to push through and just TRY something - get the feet wet, work on a project and learn by doing. A journey of a thousand miles and all that...

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Regarding the "one and done"ers - TFLF reminds me of a weight loss forum. Probably has the same distribution of users too with X% of the single thought proclaimers that leave when they realize this may all involve WORK, a small % of high achievers who worked the prescription to their strengths, and the bulk in the middle interested in striving and learning more.

Yup, once again pointing out the striking parallels of entrepreneurial success to health/fitness success. Rep+

 

[Kyle Tully]

Regarding the "one and done"ers - TFLF reminds me of a weight loss forum. Probably has the same distribution of users too with X% of the single thought proclaimers that leave when they realize this may all involve WORK, a small % of high achievers who worked the prescription to their strengths, and the bulk in the middle interested in striving and learning more.

80/20.

It exists everywhere.

Understand this and learn to leverage it.

In many cases it's more like the 99/1.

e.g. 99% of the income from members of this forum no doubt comes from 1% of the members Figure out how to be in the 1%.

 

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