Time to shake things up: Universal Basic Income?

[Kevin88660]

It is pretty random as to whom your parents are or as buffet calls it the "ovarian lottery" do you think you would be successful if you were born as a subsistence farmer in africa?

I think it did make a poltical statement maybe not the one they intended, especially as hasbro knocked the other side of the board.(which included a version of UBI)

I think you are confusing free with fairness.

UBI deals with neither. It is not going to equalize starting point for fairness (I do not think it is feasible or even if feasible why should we try?) Why should we waste resources to to create an experimental condition that everyone begins on the same line? The alternative maybe be unfair but doesn't make one not free.

UBI just makes individual human progress and development easier by removing desperation.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[LittleWolfie]

I think you are confusing free with fairness.

UBI deals with neither. It is not going to equalize starting point for fairness

That's true However a free market by defintion has unrestricted competition. So any artifical barrier(like goverment lender of last resort, immigration control,intellectual property laws)make it a non free market by defintion.

Does a large inhertiance restrict competition? If so then it creates a non free market. What about a good education?

(I do not think it is feasible or even if feasible why should we try?) Why should we waste resources to to create an experimental condition that everyone begins on the same line? The alternative maybe be unfair but doesn't make one not free.

Good question. Ask a proponent of a free market, I'm far from an advocate of it. I'm just noting what is required to meet the technical definiton of free market,as far as I'm aware there are no countries with a truly free market.

UBI just makes individual human progress and development easier by removing desperation.

I agree,and I do suppot UBI,but I just got sidetracked with the whole free market thing.

 

[Kevin88660]

That's true However a free market by defintion has unrestricted competition. So any artifical barrier(like goverment lender of last resort, immigration control,intellectual property laws)make it a non free market by defintion.

Does a large inhertiance restrict competition? If so then it creates a non free market. What about a good education?



Good question. Ask a proponent of a free market, I'm far from an advocate of it. I'm just noting what is required to meet the technical definiton of free market,as far as I'm aware there are no countries with a truly free market.


I agree,and I do suppot UBI,but I just got sidetracked with the whole free market thing.

Free market simply means old school ideas about private property, freedom of exchange and rule of law to enforce contract, without too much regulation and redistribution.

Free market is not also the same as a competitive market. Yes big players may have economics of scale and advantage that make competition sometimes monopolistic or oligopolistic in a free environment.

 

[Tourmaline]

@LittleWolfie When people say free markets, they do not typically mean radical free markets. A fair and useful free market requires regulations to prevent larger players from dominating and forcing out smaller players through unfair tactics.

@Kevin88660 Welfare programs already remove desperation. UBI will not drastically change this. It will enable what more of what the culture will have them do.

A bigger issue of UBI imo is that it will raise the cost of consumer goods. If producers know everyone has more money then they know people can afford more expensive things each month and will have more money to 'blow' on stuff they feel like buying for fun or status presently.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kevin88660]

Andrew Yang talked about “freedom dividends” to mask the stigma of welfare thinking. Good effort but I have doubts on the mechanics of it- Using VAT to fund it. I just dun think Amazon, Silicon Valley and Walmart have the ability to pay the bill.

In Singapore where I live we have something like I real dividends administered by the government. Structural budget surplus reinvested into the financial market as sovereign wealth. So every few years there will be thousands of dollars channel back to the citizens as dividends.

U.S. has a big debt issue and far less welfare program than Western Europe. The deficit is heavily concentrated to benefit a few segments of special interest
They are
1) Pharmaceuticals. Gov spending on health care is very high but cost is not going down
2) Retirees. They are one third of the active voters. Good luck trying to offend them to slash social security payout.
3) Military industry complex and the petrol chemical oligarch. Endless wars.

In term of the usual scapegoats on “lazy people”, I do not think disability benefits, unemployment benefit or food stamp is crippling the budget if you dig at the number.

Unless Andrew Yang is going to tackle the real issue, I doubt scapegoating the retail and tech billionaires is not going help.he over exaggerated the effect of automation, as if U.S. is simply experiencing a major side effect of a tech revolution. The fact is once you remove the parasites that caused the deficit in the first place there will be enough money for the dividends without VAT.

 

[LittleWolfie]

Free market simply means old school ideas about private property, freedom of exchange and rule of law to enforce contract, without too much regulation and redistribution.

Surely old school ideas would be mercantilism?

@LittleWolfie When people say free markets, they do not typically mean radical free markets. A fair and useful free market requires regulations

I call that bullc**p. It's fine to want an unregulated free market or an unfree well regulated market, but call it what it is.

Usally when people say "free market", what they mean is they want the regulations that help them make a profit, but not the other kind of regulations. That's called a hypocrite.

In fact if anything the regulated market is radical.

 

[Tourmaline]

@LittleWolfie When I say free markets I mean a well regulated market that makes a fair market that helps produce wealth and eliminate poverty. It's not about me and my profits. Capitalism needs regulations to function well. Without regulations you end up with people not being able to start businesses and free enterprise withers away.

I don't know how you can call a regulated market radical when it is what exists in the USA and many other places. Laissez faire free markets are radical because they're literally extreme and don't exist anywhere currently, it would a large change in how things are currently done which is why it's radical.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.