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HOT TOPIC The Worldwide Covid-19 Coronavirus Pandemic Discussion Thread...

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loop101

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This thread is now 4 months old, and a lot has happened since January 25th.

Strangely, it's hard to recap what we've learned, since most of the basic facts have been politicized and are still being debated. Things I still don't know:

  • Hydroxychloroquine good or bad?
  • Spreads easily on surfaces or not?
  • Masks help or not?
  • Warm climates help or not?
  • Lung infection or blood infection?
  • Lethal or just a nasty flu?
  • Contained by lock-down or everyone is already infected?
  • Warm countries uninfected or just untested?
  • Dr Fauci is Obi Wan, or Dr Fauci is a Sith Lord?
  • Escaped from a wet market, or escaped from a weapons lab?
Not sure if this clip from a 2003 TV show has been posted, but it is strangely accurate:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaWw_CHn_Bs
 

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Trevor Kuntz

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Not sure if this clip from a 2003 TV show has been posted, but it is strangely accurate:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaWw_CHn_Bs
It is strangely accurate but since this virus is SARS-cov-2 and SARS-cov-1 was still very relevant in 2003, not that unusual, except for the mention of chloroquine.

Let’s just hope no one ever shares a “strangely accurate clip” from an old 2011 movie called Contagion. Lol.

Another thing to add to your list; no one is talking about antibodies anymore.
 

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If true, it could blow the top off this entire thing. No masks, social distancing, BS, because hey, asymptomatic spread is why we subjected ourselves to this whole circus.
I wish it could work like that but at this point new evidence just doesn't seem to matter anymore.

I'm still naively waiting for the first country to change its policies based on this new information but I highly doubt it's going to happen anytime soon.
 
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Kak

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“Everyone who disagrees with me is a conspiracy theorist.”

Government over reach is now a conspiracy theory.

Cops kicking Dave out of a park is a conspiracy theory.

My county instituting a curfew is now a conspiracy theory.

Everything that doesn’t completely exonerate the government from every possible wrongdoing is a conspiracy theory. The American people disappoint me. The new favorite frozen yogurt flavor is going to be combat boot.
 

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still being debated. Things I still don't know:

  • Hydroxychloroquine good or bad?
  • Spreads easily on surfaces or not?
  • Masks help or not?
  • Warm climates help or not?
  • Lung infection or blood infection?
  • Lethal or just a nasty flu?
  • Contained by lock-down or everyone is already infected?
  • Warm countries uninfected or just untested?
  • Dr Fauci is Obi Wan, or Dr Fauci is a Sith Lord?
  • Escaped from a wet market, or escaped from a weapons lab?
It's amazing how every damn question gets politicized. You don't even want to look up the Ahmaud Arbery shit.
 

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The new favorite frozen yogurt flavor is going to be combat boot.
This is what I was laughing at in your post @Kak, I hadn't heard the boot licker reference before you mentioned it in this thread.
 
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David Harrison

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If true, it could blow the top off this entire thing. No masks, social distancing, BS, because hey, asymptomatic spread is why we subjected ourselves to this whole circus.
As most, well seasoned "Conspiracy Nuts" know, "facts don't matter".
There's a "set in stone" plan on the go. And nothing will get in its way.
Go figure!

Note: I like your optimism though, it's infectious. Whoops! (I think you'd be wise to self-isolate).
 

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Vigilante

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This thread is now 4 months old, and a lot has happened since January 25th.

Strangely, it's hard to recap what we've learned, since most of the basic facts have been politicized and are still being debated. Things I still don't know:

  • Hydroxychloroquine good or bad?
  • Spreads easily on surfaces or not?
  • Masks help or not?
  • Warm climates help or not?
  • Lung infection or blood infection?
  • Lethal or just a nasty flu?
  • Contained by lock-down or everyone is already infected?
  • Warm countries uninfected or just untested?
  • Dr Fauci is Obi Wan, or Dr Fauci is a Sith Lord?
  • Escaped from a wet market, or escaped from a weapons lab?
Not sure if this clip from a 2003 TV show has been posted, but it is strangely accurate:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaWw_CHn_Bs
If they knew in 2003 that Chloroquine as a Cure... than why is what is happening now happening?
 

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Mike Partee

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Vigilante

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Didn’t your original post before you edited say something along the lines of you not believing my post was even real?
His original post said Bankruptcy Hurtz.

Relax.
 

Charly

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Living in Michigan we now have armed “mask enforcers” in front of grocery stores and certain retail locations.

Presumably because of the Memorial Day rush but I’m curious as to how long this will last.

We also have the 2nd highest unemployment rate in the nation as well.

sigh.
Oh, wow. This sounds very intense..
 

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I do think the media has been unfair to this guy:

33202
 

GIlman

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I do think the media has been unfair to this guy:

View attachment 33202
Although I support trump, as much as I “support” any politician, this statement is not based in reality. Covid is much less lethal than initially believed. The 1.5-2 million was based on much higher fatality rates. Remember the point was to flatten and spread out the curve. So if his statement was true then a similar number WILL die over a long enough period of time. The degree of lethality has not been changed.

So in the end 2 things can be true. We flattened the curve and the fatality rate now appears to be an order of magnitude less than initially told/sold.
 

Thoelt53

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Although I support trump, as much as I “support” any politician, this statement is not based in reality. Covid is much less lethal than initially believed. The 1.5-2 million was based on much higher fatality rates. Remember the point was to flatten and spread out the curve. So if his statement was true then a similar number WILL die over a long enough period of time. The degree of lethality has not been changed.

So in the end 2 things can be true. We flattened the curve and the fatality rate now appears to be an order of magnitude less than initially told/sold.
I agree.

You would think Trump is aware of this, seeing that we are.

So is he just playing along? Has he succumbed to the bureaucracy? Is he placating because it’s an election year?

Perhaps only time will tell.
 

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WillHurtDontCare

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I do think the media has been unfair to this guy:

View attachment 33202
American politics and media are war without violence, moral or psychic war if you will. Fair has nothing to do with it.

But as usual, they're just giving the people what they want.

33205
 

WillHurtDontCare

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I agree.

You would think Trump is aware of this, seeing that we are.

So is he just playing along? Has he succumbed to the bureaucracy? Is he placating because it’s an election year?

Perhaps only time will tell.
Politics has nothing to do with facts (which are never without bias anyway) or truth (whatever that even means anymore). People mostly vote for whoever they like more, just like in high school elections. He's just giving people who already like him reasons to rationalize the decisions that they already made.

I'm doubtful that the coronavirus changed the opinions of a significant number of people regarding Trump. I'd say that most people made up their minds about him a while ago, and that the last few months just reinforced those preexisting beliefs.
 

Kak

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Although I support trump, as much as I “support” any politician, this statement is not based in reality. Covid is much less lethal than initially believed. The 1.5-2 million was based on much higher fatality rates. Remember the point was to flatten and spread out the curve. So if his statement was true then a similar number WILL die over a long enough period of time. The degree of lethality has not been changed.

So in the end 2 things can be true. We flattened the curve and the fatality rate now appears to be an order of magnitude less than initially told/sold.
Bingo.

So you shutdown and when 1% of the population got it, you open back up... The over run hospital expectation of early March should be happening right now if those comments were based in reality.

People didn't magically get immune to it whilst sitting in their homes.

It is pompous grandstanding.
 

GIlman

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Bingo.

So you shutdown and when 1% of the population got it, you open back up... The over run hospital expectation of early March should be happening right now if those comments were based in reality.

People didn't magically get immune to it whilst sitting in their homes.

It is pompous grandstanding.
Another thing that is annoying as hell, is people running around talking about herd immunity as the end point to open things up. Herd immunity right now is not really a useful concept. It is a simply a measure of how many people have got infected and recovered. At some point when a significant majority of the population has been infected and recovered, likely 70-95% them the virus no longer would spread effectively. How is that useful.

If there was a vaccine then there could be immunity without an infection first. But a vaccine produced so quickly is sketchy to me. There simply isn’t enough of a clinically observed window to prove it’s safety.

The whole concept of herd immunity being useful is only in the setting of a vaccine, and mostly meaningless even in that context. If everyone gets the vaccine they developed their own immunity, they don’t need protection from herd immunity. Well, that’s not 100% true. Anti-Vaccer’s do benefit in the sense that there is less exposure risk in the population. But talking about herd immunity as some meaningful endpoint or strategy to get back to normal is nonsense.
 

Thoelt53

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Politics has nothing to do with facts (which are never without bias anyway) or truth (whatever that even means anymore). People mostly vote for whoever they like more, just like in high school elections. He's just giving people who already like him reasons to rationalize the decisions that they already made.

I'm doubtful that the coronavirus changed the opinions of a significant number of people regarding Trump. I'd say that most people made up their minds about him a while ago, and that the last few months just reinforced those preexisting beliefs.
I’d say this is an oversimplification.

What is happening today is massive and carries with it many complexities. I don’t think anything is what meets the eye, regardless of one’s bias or lack thereof.

However, I do agree that for the most part people have previously decided where they stand on Trump. On the other hand, there are plenty of us who once supported him who have lost respect.

I think it was Kak that said it a dozen or so pages ago, that Trump’s lack of leadership has been disastrous. And not in the way that the media would have you think.

The big government lovers are upset Trump didn’t institute martial law and lock everyone in their homes back in February.

Coinciding, we have people who believe Trump did not speak out against the bullshit enough, when he more or less called it from the beginning. He seemed to eventually fall in line.

To say that was to placate his voters, or that it was just the hand he is playing, we don’t know.

What we do know is that he signed a massive bailout, with most of the money enriching the multibillionaire owners of bankrupt corporations. Then again, the government created this mess, and without bailouts things would probably be worse than they are. Either way, bailouts delayed the inevitable.

In this case we should probably follow the money. The flip side is that Trump is rather unpredictable.

I still believe that only time will tell. I suppose that is only because I am hopeful there are benevolent forces at work. This administration will show that truth one way or the other.
 

Thoelt53

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Another thing that is annoying as hell, is people running around talking about herd immunity as the end point to open things up. Herd immunity right now is not really a useful concept. It is a simply a measure of how many people have got infected and recovered. At some point when a significant majority of the population has been infected and recovered, likely 70-95% them the virus no longer would spread effectively. How is that useful.

If there was a vaccine then there could be immunity without an infection first. But a vaccine produced so quickly is sketchy to me. There simply isn’t enough of a clinically observed window to prove it’s safety.

The whole concept of herd immunity being useful is only in the setting of a vaccine, and mostly meaningless even in that context. If everyone gets the vaccine they developed their own immunity, they don’t need protection from herd immunity. Well, that’s not 100% true. Anti-Vaccer’s do benefit in the sense that there is less exposure risk in the population. But talking about herd immunity as some meaningful endpoint or strategy to get back to normal is nonsense.

Do we even need herd immunity or a vaccine?
 

DiamondDog

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Lockdowns don't work?

Can anyone look at these graphs and tell me with a straight face that lockdowns don't work? Deaths and daily new cases have fallen by 95% in Italy during the lockdown period. How can someone claim that reducing the possibility for the virus to spread from person is ineffective?

33212 33213
 
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Mike Partee

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Lockdowns don't work?
Of course they 'work' you idiot; just as much as lighting a fire with gallons of gasoline 'works.'

Oh, you'll get your fire. Enjoy getting completely incinerated in the process.
 

GIlman

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Lockdowns don't work?

Can anyone look at these graphs and tell me with a straight face that lockdowns don't work? Deaths and daily new cases have fallen by 95% in Italy during the lockdown period. How can someone claim that reducing the possibility for the virus to spread from person is ineffective?

View attachment 33212View attachment 33213
Define what “work” means in the first place. Also it’s impossible to prove anything without a control group to compare to. You just have a pretty graph of data. Without a comparison of another outcome doing the opposite of what we did you can’t prove anything.

Would the control group have followed the same trajectory? Would have the curve gone higher, been flatter, tapered down faster/slower? No one knows. You can measure and graph anything you want, determining the meaning or utility of the data is an entirely different thing. Most people do not understand this, and can be easily manipulated by someone presenting a pretty graph.

A great book about this is called How to Lie Using Statistics.
 
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