The Ukraine War, implications, outcome?

[Xeon]

The only reason why Putin and Russia dare to speak like this is because the West has allowed them. If our leaders said that ONE nuke fired = the complete obliteration of Russia, followed by surrounding Russia with nuclear submarines, Putin would not be speaking so lightly anymore. However, our leaders say "we don't want to start world war III", because they're cowards. Instead of saying, we WILL start world war 3 if you dare cross our red lines. But as things stand now, Putin thinks that if he throws a low yield nuclear weapon in Poland, we will not retaliate because we're afraid of World War III.

Your leaders are certain that Russia and/or China won't return the favour with their own nukes?

 

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[Napoolion]

Your leaders are certain that Russia and/or China won't return the favour with their own nukes?

You didn't read that one I think. "Putin thinks that if he throws a low yield nuclear weapon in Poland, we will not retaliate because we're afraid of World War III."
If it is going for nukes, Russia is the first to launch it, since it has no conventional means to fight NATO. Everything is just inferior. So nukes and chemical weapons is all Russia has.

 

[Xeon]

Everything is just inferior.

If what you said is true, then all the more Russia is not afraid to fire nukes freely since they've nothing to lose compared to the US and her vassal states. Look at NYC, London, Paris, Hamburg....can the West afford to lose these?
And those nice american suburb houses with their little lawns?

Of course the West will hesitate.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Your leaders are certain that Russia and/or China won't return the favour with their own nukes?

That is irrelevant. For MAD prevention to hold, both parties have to be willing to throw the bombs. If one is not willing, then the other party will be. If both are willing, then nobody will throw it.

 

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[Napoolion]

If what you said is true, then all the more Russia is not afraid to fire nukes freely since they've nothing to lose compared to the US and her vassal states. Look at NYC, London, Paris, Hamburg....can the West afford to lose these?
And those nice american suburb houses with their little lawns?
Of course the West will hesitate.

So how far is Russia now from North Korea? Not a lot I would say. Russia has a chance to I don't know, pull his troops back from invasion and maybe build a normal country for once and not be a nuisance to the world? Probably too much to ask though, most ppl there are pretty uneducated, indoctrinated and the smart ones are leaving.

 

[David Borodin]

This is all the West’s fault. If I were US President I would not allow Putin a single inch. How dare he dictate terms? I should dictate the terms to him, and he BETTER obey if he cares about his life.

But the Western philosophy is “OMG we don’t want to start a WW3, so we have to be careful” — because they have NO BALLS whatsoever. (Something that Putin knows, which is why he is doing this in the first place)

Instead what Biden should have done is said that ONE Russian soldier over Ukraine’s border means war with America. And for what Putin did last night he should’ve sent stealth bombers to take out certain key targets in Moscow. Directly. No questions asked. With the clear message that if he doesn’t pull back, it will look ugly for him, no matter the cost.

But again, the West has no balls. We telegraph to Putin that we’re not willing to pay ANY price to stop him.

America can't do that.
Ukraine is not part of NATO, so the west can't protect them.
And it seems to me that you expectations are far too unrealistic.

Does the west have some big balls? I would say no like you, so I agree on that statement.
But don't forget that Russia has a TON of nuclear warheads, and they have enough nuclear weapons to blow the earth in half.
So I doubt that anybody would send "bombs" towards Moscow, because it would be a suicidal decision.

Anyways, America should focus on China instead.
China is a beast, growing stronger and more powerful, in the shadows.
The reason why China didn't invade Taiwan at the same time as Russia invaded Ukraine,
is because China wants the world to focus on Russia, not in them.
China can now plan their next move for world domination, while nobody looks at them.

China is a very smart country.

 

[Bouncing Soul]

The United States is a warlike country with a strong undercurrent of violence about it. Our actions around our military spending and use should make this abundantly clear.

There are undoubtedly US “advisors” there now (most likely not pulling the triggers), and we’ve publicly talked about the training our special forces troops have given Ukrainians and other prior Soviet satellites since 2014.

Do not mistake this to mean the United States is in the fight. That would look a lot different.

Ukrainian refugee children are starting to arrive here now and Americans of all types are getting more and more pissed off as we see their faces. President Biden’s popularity wanes for not doing enough for the fight.

The United States will push the button again if it comes to it, it really doesn’t matter who is president. Please please please don’t be so stupid to believe otherwise.

 

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[Napoolion]

Video on Russian troops communications

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOmYi96cU1M

 

[Cyberthal]

Also since the USA volunteered to detonate the USD, team Russo-China is better off having one evade sanctions while the other fights, tagging each other in.

Don't worry though, after the Grays assimilate us, we won't be able to feel any negative emotions at all, which will help the survivors stomach the boring worker bee lifestyle!

"You will own nothing and be happy."

 

[lowtek]

Don't worry though, after the Grays assimilate us, we won't be able to feel any negative emotions at all, which will help the survivors stomach the boring worker bee lifestyle!

"You will own nothing and be happy."

I like your style, and in fact, when I put on my darkest shade of conspiracy goggles I can actually see something quite extraordinary.

Allow me to paint a picture.

A few years ago, the United States military effectively admitted to the existence of UFO in our skies. I've always wondered why. Not just why they admitted it, but why then?

Fast forward to now, and Western civilization is on the brink. We're over leveraged to the point of absurdity, we've just injected our populations with an experimental mRNA therapy that seems to be killing the population (in UK, 4x jabbed have a significantly higher mortality rate from the Wuhan flu compared to unjabbed, coupled with higher overall mortality rates not due to C19), and we've cratered our economies with insane lockdown measures. All of this coupled to a regional conflict in Eastern Europe that has the very real potential to go nuclear, and you can really start to see that the light at the end of the tunnel is a freight train.

What better time to usher in a "one world government", or at least, a single government for all western nations?

But how could you get the populace to accept such a thing?

If you dig through the archives of UFO sightings, you'll see reports of tampering with our nuclear missile silos. Apparently, on more than one occasion, UFO sightings have been correlated with malfunctions in our ICBM silos out in the midwest. This dates back to the 70s and 80s, so it's not a new thing.

Let us put 2 and 2 together.

The conflict in Ukraine goes nuclear. A couple warning shots get fired off (Russia pops one off in the ocean as a warning, and then NATO pops one off in Siberia). Just as the conflagration is about to begin, our friends from Zeta Reticuli swoop in to disable the bombs.

The day is saved, but now we have an even bigger fish to fry. We're suddenly players on the galactic stage, and we can't have a fragmented set of governments reflecting the "will of humanity", right? I mean, the only logical solution is that you should give up all your rights to one world government, for the greater good yeah.

Obviously, it's all some sort of ploy. A hollyweird production, the lies of the media, large scale holograms, whatever.

A couple of years ago, I would conclude this by saying that it's just a flight of fancy I'm just being silly and weaving a tale.

But then a few months ago I saw some people posting a meme on fedbook. Something to the effect of: aliens could land on the white house lawn and half the country would refuse to believe it. Part of me wondered, again, why?

Now I'm not so sure it's just a flight of fancy. Maybe my conspiracy goggles aren't just a toy.

 

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[Napoolion]

I like your style, and in fact, when I put on my darkest shade of conspiracy goggles I can actually see something quite extraordinary.

Allow me to paint a picture.

A few years ago, the United States military effectively admitted to the existence of UFO in our skies. I've always wondered why. Not just why they admitted it, but why then?

Fast forward to now, and Western civilization is on the brink. We're over leveraged to the point of absurdity, we've just injected our populations with an experimental mRNA therapy that seems to be killing the population (in UK, 4x jabbed have a significantly higher mortality rate from the Wuhan flu compared to unjabbed, coupled with higher overall mortality rates not due to C19), and we've cratered our economies with insane lockdown measures. All of this coupled to a regional conflict in Eastern Europe that has the very real potential to go nuclear, and you can really start to see that the light at the end of the tunnel is a freight train.

What better time to usher in a "one world government", or at least, a single government for all western nations?

But how could you get the populace to accept such a thing?

If you dig through the archives of UFO sightings, you'll see reports of tampering with our nuclear missile silos. Apparently, on more than one occasion, UFO sightings have been correlated with malfunctions in our ICBM silos out in the midwest. This dates back to the 70s and 80s, so it's not a new thing.

Let us put 2 and 2 together.

The conflict in Ukraine goes nuclear. A couple warning shots get fired off (Russia pops one off in the ocean as a warning, and then NATO pops one off in Siberia). Just as the conflagration is about to begin, our friends from Zeta Reticuli swoop in to disable the bombs.

The day is saved, but now we have an even bigger fish to fry. We're suddenly players on the galactic stage, and we can't have a fragmented set of governments reflecting the "will of humanity", right? I mean, the only logical solution is that you should give up all your rights to one world government, for the greater good yeah.

Obviously, it's all some sort of ploy. A hollyweird production, the lies of the media, large scale holograms, whatever.

A couple of years ago, I would conclude this by saying that it's just a flight of fancy I'm just being silly and weaving a tale.

But then a few months ago I saw some people posting a meme on fedbook. Something to the effect of: aliens could land on the white house lawn and half the country would refuse to believe it. Part of me wondered, again, why?

Now I'm not so sure it's just a flight of fancy. Maybe my conspiracy goggles aren't just a toy.

Haha, I do love to wear conspiracy goggles sometimes as well. The worst is that sometimes wild stuff what feel like rumors are later proven as true as history shows, for example what was happening in concentration camps, lobotomy in asylums, nazis on meth, drug experimental testings, gulags or some of the US stuff here: 5 US national security-related conspiracy theories that turned out to be true
Then again, a lot of stuff is just full hoax as well what history later shows (big list here, I am sure there are more: List of hoaxes - Wikipedia ). I saw the same videos on U.S admitting the UFO-s and the videos were wild. I have heard multiple stories about different races of aliens battling each other throughout the galaxy and apparently Earth is being protected by another types of humanoid aliens. I don't do weed and have dreadlocks, so I won't discuss it further, since usually guys like that talk about stuff like this
Putting on the rational glasses, Russians, like any other major power gets really really sweaty if it can't be involved in a war after few years from the last: List of wars involving Russia - Wikipedia
Notice how much you need to scroll until you get to last 30 years and even then there is tons of involvement. So historical pattern on that part is well, nothing new.

 

[Cyberthal]

Maybe my conspiracy goggles aren't just a toy.

Not bad Lowtek, have you spoken to your local Illuminati rep?

The clot shot is tri-purpose: sicken, control, kill. VAIDS. Graphene nanotech past the blood barrier.

> What better time to usher in a "one world government", or at least, a single government for all western nations?

The Dark Nobility wanted this to better negotiate with ETs, but it didn't happen. Instead Earth got divided into ET territories. The Grays got the Americas.

> But how could you get the populace to accept such a thing?

Wipe out 90% of them with the Solar Flash etc, and they'll welcome the rescue ships. Once you board, you'll never come back to the Earth your Mother, home of your many incarnations, spirit family and friends.

> Now I'm not so sure it's just a flight of fancy. Maybe my conspiracy goggles aren't just a toy.

I'm painting the dark side deliberately. Angels at work.

But yeah, Grays are synths. Their reproduction has no biological limit. This is the true face of Skynet:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsQCXN4o4Ps&list=FLC5AjFfZHRvILhJfWw5UcDw&index=3


Not so scary, until it's operating on you without anesthesia.

 

[Xeon]

Ukrainian refugee children are starting to arrive here now and Americans of all types are getting more and more pissed off as we see their faces. President Biden’s popularity wanes for not doing enough for the fight.

What is Biden's plan for the 100k Ukrainian refugees he's taking in? Will they all be given jobs and education?

 

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[Kevin88660]

Russian cenbank to restart buying gold from banks, will pay fixed price from March 28

The Russian central bank will restart buying gold from banks and will pay a fixed price of 5,000 roubles ($52) per gramme between March 28 and June 30, the bank said on Friday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Napoolion]

What is Biden's plan for the 100k Ukrainian refugees he's taking in? Will they all be given jobs and education?

Probably? 100k in a big country like USA is no problem. There is a big contrast with refugees from middle east and Ukraine though, many people want to work and are already working in other countries now.

 

[Cyberthal]

Hunter Biden helped secure funds for US biolab contractor in Ukraine: e-mails

A trove of e-mails on Hunter Biden’s infamous laptop found that he played a role in helping a California defense contractor analyze killer diseases and bioweapons in Ukraine.

nypost.com

Klaus Schwab's 'World Economic Forum' cuts off "All Relations" with Russia, scrubs Putin from WEF Website

www.bibliotecapleyades.net

Gay.

 

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[Xeon]

At least for once, Biden is honest, albeit it was a slip of tongue:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507799450869280775

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1507799450869280775?cxt=HHwWjsC92ZTn4-wpAAAA


He says the truth, and something many in the world outside the West have suspected a long time : the US aka Chief Of NATO, wants a regime change in Russia.

 

[Kevin88660]

It has been rumored for years that Russia and China owned much more gold than their official stats say and they have been developing gold trade notes for international trade.

The Ukraine conflict could be a deliberate attempt to accelerate it. Russia anticipated being kicked out of Swift.

In a few months time I could foresee Russia officially declare Ruble to be backed by gold. This will create a shock wave throughout global financial market.

With Ukraine being one of the main wheat exporter we could see rising food price continuing.

Russia is playing the "bad guy" role and China is pretending to be neutral. China benefits the most from Dollar losing the reserve status. Most countries now trade more with China than with U.S.

Most of the Ukraine scientists, who used to work for Soviet research in material science (military application) were already poached by China years before the start of the crisis. China still lags before in core military technology research, due to lack of experimental data. The Chinese made plane engines have stats that were comparable to what U.S. and USSR had in the 1970s. But such quality are definitely way beyond satisfactory to be sold commercially to Asian and Middle Eastern customers.

 

[WillHurtDontCare]

I think some places will certainly fare better than others. It may be a controversial statement, but I believe it to be fact: culture is downstream of genetics.

(spirit of a people > genetics imo, but for all practical purposes that is splitting hairs)

But keep in mind, there are always degrees. I don't necessarily think another dark ages is coming, but i also don't think things are going back to the way there were in 2019 and earlier.

We've been living in the dark ages for decades already. Your comment wouldn't be controversial if we didn't live in a culture of hardcore lies.

 

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[Silverfox148]

"This man cannot remain in power," Biden says of Putin

He also invoked a message of solidarity with Ukraine, saying "we must remain unified today and tomorrow and the day after."

www.axios.com

Looks like the cat is out of the bag now(supposedly on accident). This was a monumental speech that will be remembered in history as the starting gunshot in the US trying to keep unipolar lone super power status and declaring it so. Unfortunately, this plays right into Putin's assertion before the war that NATO was/is looking for regime change in Russia, which if one is honest, has been the goal all along. This is unfortunately a gift to Putin that he didn't really deserve and is going to play big in Russia propaganda at home I'm sure. Imposing a new Russian regime from the outside is going to fly like a lead ballon just as Russia tried to do with Zelensky. There has got to be a lot of head shaking in DC at the moment in the State Dept/Defense Dept/ Intelligence Agencies.

This is what I theorized since the beginning including this thread, for the U.S this is a play to defeat the Russian military both tactically and strategically and encircle China and turn Russia into a vassal state much as Ukraine is/was and force China to have to deal with Russia. The last thing this is about is Ukraine, it's about keeping a unipolar world with the U.S at the helm, pretty ambitious but it's what the leadership in Washington has decided. The next set of moves are going to be very interesting.

Russia
- Putin has been handed a free gift with this Biden speech and now will use it for maximum gains domestically. Even for pro-western Russians within Russia this presents a problem as the U.S is now actively saying they want regime change imposed from the outside, presumably via NATO.
- Russia will most likely escalate inside Ukraine now that the Russian leadership at all levels has seen what this is all about, and to have the US president of all people say it.
- Russia now will gain leverage over China as now it can be pointed at the Chinese, if we fall you are next, the US is playing for keeps here, this whole thing from the US perspective is about China. Expect increasing Chinese support for the Russians in all forms.
- A big huge win for Russia, hard to believe this would be handed to them, as this was their thesis all along.

Ukraine
- Ukraine will be the most hurt by all of this directly as now there really isn't any incentive for Putin or the Russian leadership to negotiate in good faith, now Russian leadership necks are on the line if Russia loses via regime change and eventual war crimes prosecutions.
- The calling and labeling of Russian leadership as war criminals by the US/Europe is a lot more significant than most realize, as it only escalates the conflict as now the Russian leadership cannot lose or they risk being prosecuted if regime change comes along. I don't think many people realize how dangerous this is for Ukraine, it is not a good thing.

China
- Will be forced to pick a side and this what Putin is betting on, in fact Putin may have been counting on this all along, he is using this Ukraine war and the threat of regime change in Russia and possible encirclement of China by vassal states should Russia fall to indirectly weaken China and force it to a more confrontational approach with the U.S/West. This benefits Putin as the Chinese are a big threat to Russia just as much as NATO in the long run.
- They now have no strategic option but to help Putin win in Ukraine or face a US vassal state in the form of Russia on their huge border in the north.
- The ultimate goal for the U.S is regime change in China also in the long run, cards are on the table.

European Union
- The biggest suckers in all of this, Germany/France/EU have been played, it was not about Russia/Ukraine, it's always been about China, now their economies will be sacrificed and wrecked in order to try to force regime change in Russia which is all about encircling China.

India
- Will eventually have to pick a side also, if China is. willing to compromise with them becoming a regional power the Indians may support Russia/China while staying "neutral", the U.S is not comfortable with India becoming a regional power but China may give them Pakistan, the best they could hope for with the US is UK/Australia like status but they seem to want to chart their own course.

Israel
- Another big loser in all of this, which is why they keep trying to negotiate a cease fire. They are correctly figuring Russia is now going to heat things up in the Middle East for the US via proxies and directly. Expect increased sophisticated weaponry to start making its way into Middle East conflicts.
- Middle East alliances are going to get redrawn and the US monopoly in the region is coming to an end, bad for Israel.
- They will try to stay neutral while helping Russia/China and still keeping the relationship with the US. It's going to be a tough task but it's their only choice as US combat involvement in the Middle East is coming to an end as the US can rightly see Russia/China will try to turn them into proxy war.

 

[Napoolion]

At least for once, Biden is honest, albeit it was a slip of tongue:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507799450869280775

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1507799450869280775?cxt=HHwWjsC92ZTn4-wpAAAA


He says the truth, and something many in the world outside the West have suspected a long time : the US aka Chief Of NATO, wants a regime change in Russia.

So you are saying U.S wants to get rid of a dictator who just invaded Ukraine? Nothing magical to be fair, I want regime change in Russia, Ukraine wants regime change in Russia, Europe wants regime change in Russia, USA wants regime change in Russia, protestors in Russia wants regime change in Russia, though most have thrown into prison. I am sure even China wants regime change in Russia, though more Chinese friendly upper than even Putin is. During world war two, everyone wanted regime change in Germany to get rid of Hitler... So, yes it is fairly obvious, nobody likes a regime which is invading other countries? Hello?

Looks like the cat is out of the bag now(supposedly on accident). This was a monumental speech that will be remembered in history as the starting gunshot in the US trying to keep unipolar lone super power status and declaring it so. Unfortunately, this plays right into Putin's assertion before the war that NATO was/is looking for regime change in Russia, which if one is honest, has been the goal all along. This is unfortunately a gift to Putin that he didn't really deserve and is going to play big in Russia propaganda at home I'm sure. Imposing a new Russian regime from the outside is going to fly like a lead ballon just as Russia tried to do with Zelensky. There has got to be a lot of head shaking in DC at the moment in the State Dept/Defense Dept/ Intelligence Agencies.

This is what I theorized since the beginning including this thread, for the U.S this is a play to defeat the Russian military both tactically and strategically and encircle China and turn Russia into a vassal state much as Ukraine is/was and force China to have to deal with Russia. The last thing this is about is Ukraine, it's about keeping a unipolar world with the U.S at the helm, pretty ambitious but it's what the leadership in Washington has decided. The next set of moves are going to be very interesting.

Silver, how did they calculate it so well that Russia will actually fully invade Ukraine. All those problems are Russia's own self inflected. Russia's narrative has always been something that Nato and especially U.S is fault at their failures.
It is a good speech though, since it pretty much means if you keep bullying other nations, we are not going to close our eyes. Right now it has been more of Russia bullying and fighting Ukraine and everyone watching and supporting behind the scenes. If you ever had to fight a bully, then you would know that appeasing the bully does not work, you have to kick his a$$ and make them cry.

- Ukraine will be the most hurt by all of this directly as now there really isn't any incentive for Putin or the Russian leadership to negotiate in good faith, now Russian leadership necks are on the line if Russia loses via regime change and eventual war crimes prosecutions.
- The calling and labeling of Russian leadership as war criminals by the US/Europe is a lot more significant than most realize, as it only escalates the conflict as now the Russian leadership cannot lose or they risk being prosecuted if regime change comes along. I don't think many people realize how dangerous this is for Ukraine, it is not a good thing.

They have already bombed east Ukraine to pieces where apparently pro Russian pop lived. They have already sent rockets to most of major cities in Ukraine. There is nothing to escalate anymore except going nuclear maybe. Russia has already done it, has not held back of bombing civilian infrastructure with schools and residential buildings.

- Will be forced to pick a side and this what Putin is betting on, in fact Putin may have been counting on this all along, he is using this Ukraine war and the threat of regime change in Russia and possible encirclement of China by vassal states should Russia fall to indirectly weaken China and force it to a more confrontational approach with the U.S/West. This benefits Putin as the Chinese are a big threat to Russia just as much as NATO in the long run.
- They now have no strategic option but to help Putin win in Ukraine or face a US vassal state in the form of Russia on their huge border in the north.
- The ultimate goal for the U.S is regime change in China also in the long run, cards are on the table.

China is after it's own interests, they are not going to sit in the poverty corner with Russia. They are trading with the whole world. They will probably keep playing both sides. India will try to probably go for the same.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUHdQEzOa3A

 

[Xeon]

So you are saying U.S wants to get rid of a dictator who just invaded Ukraine? Nothing magical to be fair, I want regime change in Russia, Ukraine wants regime change in Russia, Europe wants regime change in Russia, USA wants regime change in Russia, protestors in Russia wants regime change in Russia, though most have thrown into prison. I am sure even China wants regime change in Russia, though more Chinese friendly upper than even Putin is. During world war two, everyone wanted regime change in Germany to get rid of Hitler... So, yes it is fairly obvious, nobody likes a regime which is invading other countries? Hello?

[Duplicated post below]

 

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[Xeon]

who just invaded Ukraine? Nothing magical to be fair, I want regime change in Russia, Ukraine wants regime change in Russia, Europe wants regime change in Russia, USA wants regime change in Russia, protestors in Russia wants regime change in Russia, though most have thrown into prison. I am sure even China wants regime change in Russia, though more Chinese friendly upper than even Putin is. During world war two, everyone wanted regime change in Germany to get rid of Hitler... So, yes it is fairly obvious, nobody likes a regime which is invading other countries? Hello?

The US has meddled and/or invaded more than 70 countries. Does this mean the world should push for regime change in the US? Yes.

 

[Silverfox148]

So you are saying U.S wants to get rid of a dictator who just invaded Ukraine? Nothing magical to be fair, I want regime change in Russia, Ukraine wants regime change in Russia, Europe wants regime change in Russia, USA wants regime change in Russia, protestors in Russia wants regime change in Russia, though most have thrown into prison. I am sure even China wants regime change in Russia, though more Chinese friendly upper than even Putin is. During world war two, everyone wanted regime change in Germany to get rid of Hitler... So, yes it is fairly obvious, nobody likes a regime which is invading other countries? Hello?


Silver, how did they calculate it so well that Russia will actually fully invade Ukraine. All those problems are Russia's own self inflected. Russia's narrative has always been something that Nato and especially U.S is fault at their failures.
It is a good speech though, since it pretty much means if you keep bullying other nations, we are not going to close our eyes. Right now it has been more of Russia bullying and fighting Ukraine and everyone watching and supporting behind the scenes. If you ever had to fight a bully, then you would know that appeasing the bully does not work, you have to kick his a$$ and make them cry.


They have already bombed east Ukraine to pieces where apparently pro Russian pop lived. They have already sent rockets to most of major cities in Ukraine. There is nothing to escalate anymore except going nuclear maybe. Russia has already done it, has not held back of bombing civilian infrastructure with schools and residential buildings.


China is after it's own interests, they are not going to sit in the poverty corner with Russia. They are trading with the whole world. They will probably keep playing both sides. India will try to probably go for the same.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUHdQEzOa3A

Look, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not a BD like troll.

One of the problems with the western media coverage around this whole Ukraine/Russia war is that people start to look at the situation through only one lens and forget about the other party involved. The US over the last 20 years has stumbled both in Iraq/Afghanistan military and diplomatically over and over due to this hubris.

The reason why Biden calling for regime change is so significant is because it's plays exactly to what Putin has been saying all along, they want Russia to be a vassal of the US/NATO/West, it justifies domestically his invasion of Ukraine. It's basically what the U.S did after 9/11, we have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here. Regime change as traditionally known implies violence also, it is not a political handover of power but a forced takeover(violence) and the installation of a regime friendly to the country effecting the regime change, it's exactly what Putin was supposedly trying to do in Ukraine with Zelensky.

This speech doesn't matter in the West as you say everyone who has been following western media wants regime change in Russia, people are on record even here that they are willing to sacrifice entire cities to nuclear strikes in order to get Putin out. The only people who can get Putin out is the Russian people.

This speech matters the most in Russia as Putin's thesis has now been proven true, the west wants to take over Russia, guess what the reaction will be once this is played over and over via Russia domestic propaganda channels, it will take pressure off of him and focus in on the US/West/NATO, he must be smiling at this gift because it's what we has said all along and now we have the sitting US president saying it out loud in some type of rally within a NATO country.

As I have said since the beginning this conflict is about many things but the last thing it's about is Ukraine for either the US or Russia or China. Russia is a decrepit country economically largely relying on energy/metals exports and exports of soviet era developed weaponry. Military it is not a threat to NATO except with the exception of nuclear weapons, according to western media the Russian military is getting wrecked and is highly incompetent and is on the verge of collapse morally in Ukraine, all this inflicted by a rag tag bunch including accountants and bakers and comedians armed with Javelins and Stingers, if this is the case imagine how they would perform against highly trained Western soldiers armed with Patriots and F35s. See no threat mom.

This is about Russia trying to change that and shaking up the world order in the hopes that in the aftermath it is in a better position than the one it is was currently in prior to the war , because it's only true long term options under the current order were to be either a US vassal or a Chinese vassal, neither of which Putin/Russia really wants.

If you think the regime change remark doesn't matter, look at the scramble to walk it back. It's a free gift and it only hurts the actual Ukrainians on the ground as this will be used as a morale booster in Russia.

Biden’s worldwide walkback

The true consequence may depend on whether the Kremlin focuses on the words of the commander-in-chief — or the walkback.

www.axios.com

 

[Napoolion]

The US has meddled and/or invaded more than 70 countries. Does this mean the world should push for regime change in the US? Yes.

Why is it always the argument of look that other countries have done the same what Russia wanted to do in Ukraine, but failed? Don't look at us, while we take over a country (Ukraine), looks somewhere else, look what the US did in the past... So bad..

Look, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not a BD like troll.

I am a troll, because I don't support the Russian invasion on Ukraine or fabricated Russian version of it?

One of the problems with the western media coverage around this whole Ukraine/Russia war is that people start to look at the situation through only one lens and forget about the other party involved. The US over the last 20 years has stumbled both in Iraq/Afghanistan military and diplomatically over and over due to this hubris.

Russian imperialism is nothing new, my country was occupied over 50 years by Russians too and the protection thing was used even before ww2 and justification for winter war too. My neighbor is only survivor in her family from being deported to Siberia. My friends grandmother was shot dead in his home yard just because. I have a pretty good understanding of Russian imperialism and atrocities. Don't come tell me that Russia is a good guy, just because you want to be anti US. I do not support US either for going for iraq / afghanistan, but that does not excuse of the current invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

Regime change as traditionally known implies violence also, it is not a political handover of power but a forced takeover(violence) and the installation of a regime friendly to the country effecting the regime change, it's exactly what Putin was supposedly trying to do in Ukraine with Zelensky.

Putin failed with that, he now goes for areas surrounding Donbass.

This speech doesn't matter in the West as you say everyone who has been following western media wants regime change in Russia, people are on record even here that they are willing to sacrifice entire cities to nuclear strikes in order to get Putin out. The only people who can get Putin out is the Russian people.

This speech matters the most in Russia as Putin's thesis has now been proven true, the west wants to take over Russia, guess what the reaction will be once this is played over and over via Russia domestic propaganda channels, it will take pressure off of him and focus in on the US/West/NATO, he must be smiling at this gift because it's what we has said all along and now we have the sitting US president saying it out loud in some type of rally within a NATO country.

As I have said since the beginning this conflict is about many things but the last thing it's about is Ukraine for either the US or Russia or China. Russia is a decrepit country economically largely relying on energy/metals exports and exports of soviet era developed weaponry. Military it is not a threat to NATO except with the exception of nuclear weapons, according to western media the Russian military is getting wrecked and is highly incompetent and is on the verge of collapse morally in Ukraine, all this inflicted by a rag tag bunch including accountants and bakers and comedians armed with Javelins and Stingers, if this is the case imagine how they would perform against highly trained Western soldiers armed with Patriots and F35s. See no threat mom.

This is about Russia trying to change that and shaking up the world order in the hopes that in the aftermath it is in a better position than the one it is was currently in prior to the war , because it's only true long term options under the current order were to be either a US vassal or a Chinese vassal, neither of which Putin/Russia really wants.

If you think the regime change remark doesn't matter, look at the scramble to walk it back. It's a free gift and it only hurts the actual Ukrainians on the ground as this will be used as a morale booster in Russia

Honestly it does not really matter what justification they are going for, Putin controls the media and it can feed the people whatever it wants and they believe the narrative. So far they have being fed of Ukraine having a Nazi goverment, then going for some chemical labs, then Ukraine actually not being a country and it was invented by Lenin. Russian people there are just eating the lies up like no problem, so it really does not matter what you say to them. Who does not believe comes to street, but is getting beaten to submission. If Biden would had not said what he said, I am sure some other story would have been invented.

We will see how dark the scenario goes. Next dark step will probably be partial mobilization and they try mass bulldozer over Ukraine. This can take quite long time to do and we don't know what Russians are talking in the kitchen, maybe they see all the lies trough now.

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

The reason why Biden calling for regime change is so significant is because it's plays exactly to what Putin has been saying all along

Sorry, but this is the height of idiocy. According to your thinking, regardless of what Putin does, calling for his removal will make what he said before correct. That’s complete and utter drivel. Future actions will change future desires and perceptions. The West wants regime change now because Putin has crossed too many red lines already. There’s nothing controversial about this. If Putin hadn’t invaded Ukraine and persisted in his war, the West would not be calling for his removal.

 

[Kevin88660]

I think a lot of people are reading Putin as someone who over exacerbates his ability, especially from the Anti-Russian lens. The narrative was that Russia wanted to take control over a Ukraine within a few days but failed and got dragged in a pro-longed warfare.

But actually if you study Putin a person his modus operandi has always been hiding his ability and intention, so that when he strikes you he catch you unaware.

Episode 1: Putin vs Oligarchs. The Oligarchs chosed him as they needed someone who is capable to manage the country and win election against the communists, but not too ambitious so that they can be under the oligarchs control. Putin fitted that role (now we know he pretended). The rest is history.

Episode 2: Enemies of Putin (domestic and abroad) vs Putin. The enemies thought that they need to put up with him for 8 years maximum due to the term limit. Medvedev was the candidate to pass the baton back to him as the constitution ban consecutive term leadership but no cap on personal term limit. He only officially decided to run for president on dec 2017, for the coming election in march 2018.

Hide yours cards, arsenals and true intention until the right time and strike it.

So it is very highly likely that Putin still holds undeclared cards in his pockets that could devastate his enemy. Nuclear weapon and hypersonic missiles of course do not fit in as they are shown cards.

These hidden cards could be

1) Russian official gold reserve (which is actually much higher than the figure known to the public). This could be used to launch gold back Ruble

2) Global Food supply as a weapon. Both Ukraine and Russia are major wheat exporters.

3) CHINA. This is the biggest mystery and gamechanger. No one really know what China is going to do later. These economical warfare that hurts Russia actually comes cost to Dollar reputation of the world reserve currency. This will benefit China the most. The biggest mystery now seems why Russia seems to be making sacrificial moves now that seems to benefits China the most. China opposes Russian sanction but is "officially neutral". No one knows what China will do. I don't know too. But my biggest hutch is China will declare neutrality but adopt actions to Stab U.S. stealthily in the back. China just went through a trade war with U.S. and the whole argument about where Covid comes from.

The biggest danger danger for the West in the Ukraine military crisis is that very very few countries outside U.S. allies (North America, Western Europe, Japan and Australia) actually did impose sanctions on Russia.

This divide is dangerous for the developed west/ U.S. Ally. It is not about what is going on in Ukraine. It is about the developed world vs developing world.

China has been taking leadership to represent the developing world that has most of the world's population, GDP and resources which could be leveraged to corner against the developed world.

The narrative was popular and simple. The global political order, and its institutions such as WTO, world bank and IMF after the world war two are obsolete. They created a unfair and unjust system where patents and intellectual property rights ensured the privileged lives of several hundred millions, where the rest of the world are stuck in exporting natural resources and competing in selling low margin low end manufacturing products. Occasionally you have a new winner like Korea and Sumsung, but mandated financial liberalization and George Soros led financial attack in 1997 was legal robbery. Foreigners own more than half of the Sumsung stocks after AFC 1997.

In 2008 one Chinese provincial governor joked that Chinese GDP growth needs more quality. You need to sell 900 million underwear to buy one commercial plane from U.S.

The Chinese perception of Huawei saga, and the narrative that Chinese is propagating is that U.S. is telling China to "know her place and go back to selling socks and toys".

The narrative is powerful because after world war, economic development for most parts of the world has been disastrous. Most Developing countries at 1950s remain developing or are not developing at all. Some are lucky to reach "middle income traps" like Turkey, Argentina or Malaysia.

China and Russia could be playing the global politics version of "Donald Trump"/"Bernie Sander" raging against income inequality.

We knew as a fact China invest in infrastructure in developing countries and in exchange hope they to use more RMB.

We know Russia is buying gold, demanding Ruble payment in oil and gas.

We know Russia has legalised intellectual property theft of the unfriendly nations.

We don't know what did China and Russia promise each other in the follow up actions and these are top national secrets.

We know that Xi and Putin had made a joint declaration on what they disagreed with the West in early Feb this year.

Joint Statement of the Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China on the International Relations Entering a New Era and the Global Sustainable Development

en.kremlin.ru

The title is

Joint Statement of the Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China on the International Relations Entering a New Era and the Global Sustainable Development​

I think the whole game is much bigger than Ukraine. Afterall most countries in the world has no stakes in Ukraine issue.

From this point we can understand why Russia is willing to bleed for the military confrontation. It doesn't have economic power that China has, and is actively trying to contribute through nuclear threat and military confrontation.

In other words Russia's biggest fear is China successfully building a new economic world order and tells Russia that you are not a co-leader because you contributed nothing.

China always had one problem to solve: how to create new global economic order and system, non-dollar payment system, non-western led global financial institutions and new global trade system, without colliding into world war three with the west. Afterall China has vast trades with the west and massive confrontation such as financial sanction will trade halt will cause MAD economically between China and West.

Russia afterall has already been sanctioned and would bear less cost by playing as the “bad guy”. Launching nuclear threats early at this stage could also deter the West from attacking China later.

Remember the Five permanent members of UN are winners of world war two.

 

[Napoolion]

I think a lot of people are reading Putin as someone who over exacerbates his ability, especially from the Anti-Russian lens. The narrative was that Russia wanted to take control over a Ukraine within a few days but failed and got dragged in a pro-longed warfare.

But actually if you study Putin a person his modus operandi has always been hiding his ability and intention, so that when he strikes you he catch you unaware.

Episode 1: Putin vs Oligarchs. The Oligarchs chosed him as they needed someone who is capable to manage the country and win election against the communists, but not too ambitious so that they can be under the oligarchs control. Putin fitted that role (now we know he pretended). The rest is history.

Episode 2: Enemies of Putin (domestic and abroad) vs Putin. The enemies thought that they need to put up with him for 8 years maximum due to the term limit. Medvedev was the candidate to pass the baton back to him as the constitution ban consecutive term leadership but no cap on personal term limit. He only officially decided to run for president on dec 2017, for the coming election in march 2018.

Hide yours cards, arsenals and true intention until the right time and strike it.

So it is very highly likely that Putin still holds undeclared cards in his pockets that could devastate his enemy. Nuclear weapon and hypersonic missiles of course do not fit in as they are shown cards.

These hidden cards could be

1) Russian official gold reserve (which is actually much higher than the figure known to the public). This could be used to launch gold back Ruble

2) Global Food supply as a weapon. Both Ukraine and Russia are major wheat exporters.

3) CHINA. This is the biggest mystery and gamechanger. No one really know what China is going to do later. These economical warfare that hurts Russia actually comes cost to Dollar reputation of the world reserve currency. This will benefit China the most. The biggest mystery now seems why Russia seems to be making sacrificial moves now that seems to benefits China the most. China opposes Russian sanction but is "officially neutral". No one knows what China will do. I don't know too. But my biggest hutch is China will declare neutrality but adopt actions to Stab U.S. stealthily in the back. China just went through a trade war with U.S. and the whole argument about where Covid comes from.

The biggest danger danger for the West in the Ukraine military crisis is that very very few countries outside U.S. allies (North America, Western Europe, Japan and Australia) actually did impose sanctions on Russia.

This divide is dangerous for the developed west/ U.S. Ally. It is not about what is going on in Ukraine. It is about the developed world vs developing world.

China has been taking leadership to represent the developing world that has most of the world's population, GDP and resources which could be leveraged to corner against the developed world.

The narrative was popular and simple. The global political order, and its institutions such as WTO, world bank and IMF after the world war two are obsolete. They created a unfair and unjust system where patents and intellectual property rights ensured the privileged lives of several hundred millions, where the rest of the world are stuck in exporting natural resources and competing in selling low margin low end manufacturing products. Occasionally you have a new winner like Korea and Sumsung, but mandated financial liberalization and George Soros led financial attack in 1997 was legal robbery. Foreigners own more than half of the Sumsung stocks after AFC 1997.

In 2008 one Chinese provincial governor joked that Chinese GDP growth needs more quality. You need to sell 900 million underwear to buy one commercial plane from U.S.

The Chinese perception of Huawei saga, and the narrative that Chinese is propagating is that U.S. is telling China to "know her place and go back to selling socks and toys".

The narrative is powerful because after world war, economic development for most parts of the world has been disastrous. Most Developing countries at 1950s remain developing or are not developing at all. Some are lucky to reach "middle income traps" like Turkey, Argentina or Malaysia.

China and Russia could be playing the global politics version of "Donald Trump"/"Bernie Sander" raging against income inequality.

We knew as a fact China invest in infrastructure in developing countries and in exchange hope they to use more RMB.

We know Russia is buying gold, demanding Ruble payment in oil and gas.

We know Russia has legalised intellectual property theft of the unfriendly nations.

We don't know what did China and Russia promise each other in the follow up actions and these are top national secrets.

We know that Xi and Putin had made a joint declaration on what they disagreed with the West in early Feb this year.

Joint Statement of the Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China on the International Relations Entering a New Era and the Global Sustainable Development

en.kremlin.ru

The title is

Joint Statement of the Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China on the International Relations Entering a New Era and the Global Sustainable Development​

I think the whole game is much bigger than Ukraine. Afterall most countries in the world has no stakes in Ukraine issue.

From this point we can understand why Russia is willing to bleed for the military confrontation. It doesn't have economic power that China has, and is actively trying to contribute through nuclear threat and military confrontation.

In other words Russia's biggest fear is China successfully building a new economic world order and tells Russia that you are not a co-leader because you contributed nothing.

China always had one problem to solve: how to create new global economic order and system, non-dollar payment system, non-western led global financial institutions and new global trade system, without colliding into world war three with the west. Afterall China has vast trades with the west and massive confrontation such as financial sanction will trade halt will cause MAD economically between China and West.

Russia afterall has already been sanctioned and would bear less cost by playing as the “bad guy”. Launching nuclear threats early at this stage could also deter the West from attacking China later.

Remember the Five permanent members of UN are winners of world war two.

Great analysis.
I see people are mystifying Putin, he is clever, but also a human vulnerable to mishaps as we all. Also the information he got to base his invasion of Ukraine was deeply flawed. That could be because the environment he created for himself, nobody wants to tell him the truth. His new military doctrine of having paid soldier only was good for the operations like Georgia, Crimea, Syria and meddling in Africa. His info ops has worked great and disinformation campaigns have worked amazing. Every nation should learn from that though how Ukraine has handled himself, Ukraine went for very good counter info ops and having a gun and big motivation to defend your nation is still a good way to go, even if you are smaller than a superpower. So a owning a rifle, land and food supply is something which might be very beneficial when the shit hits the fan. China is interested in itself, so every help Russia gets from there is like giving a small finger to the devil until they are way too deep. China can use Russia for it's expansion purposes, but for Russians that is very slippery road.

 

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[Matt Sun]

 

[Silverfox148]

Good discussion lately, moving away a bit from the Putin bad, Ukraine good arguments that have been repeated ad naseum.

It looks like the Russians are making some type of military gain in the east and have declared their intention to consolidate their territorial gains there. Zelensky is out there calling the west cowards which must mean the situation is more dire than is being portrayed by Ukraine.

Seizing the east and consolidating their territorial gains while establishing the land route to Crimea was the goal all along for the Russians as I stated early on in the conflict. The Kiev thing never smelled right, but it did force Ukraine to scramble and move defenses.

It looks like it's dawning on Zelensky/Ukraine that the real Russian plan is to carve up /split Ukraine into pieces. My guess looking at the situation is that the west has reached the end of the escalation ladder for now and I actually expect the US to now start to push the Ukrainian side for real cease fire negotiations. If the Russians pull back to east to regroup and consolidate they can always come back for more little by little if it makes sense, they are not going to occupy Ukraine, that was never the plan.

Also reports coming out that Russia suffered a 30% to their economy with these nuclear level sanctions which is not good, as 30% is survivable. Polls are starting to slide for Biden at home as the public begins to grapple with $4-7 dollar gas prices as well as economic malaise. Zelensky's clock is now ticking down as US media coverage will at some point start to shift. He is now pledging to staying nuclear weapons free, which is an odd remark as neither the West/Russia was going to allow Ukraine to become a nuclear weapons state. This may what sparked the invasion in the first place from the Russian side. Non-nuclear status? What's this guy smoking, it's like I keep saying we are not being told the whole truth here. How exactly were they going to obtain nuclear weapons , do they have nuclear weapons now? Do they have an active nuclear weapons program?

Seeing some unforced errors from these guys first Biden and now this nuclear card from Zelensky, once again showing that you can eventually get caught up in your own propaganda/emotions. I suspect Ukraine was spinning up a nuclear weapons program and the Russians may have found out about it, is WMD/Possibility of WMD enough to invade a country and flatten it to the ground? I think we know the answer to that one.

"Security guarantees and neutrality, non-nuclear status of our state. We are ready to go for it. This is the most important point," Zelensky said, according to Reuters.

Ukraine pleads for help, says Russia wants to split nation

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy accused the West of cowardice.

www.politico.com