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The Official Robert Greene Thread

Ubermensch

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On this forum, strategy has come up a few times lately.


People often point out that contradictions within Greene's laws. Doing so merely reveals an improper understanding of Greene's work. As Greene has mentioned, you must keep in mind context when analyzing and applying the laws to your own life.

Not everyone has enemies to crush.

Law 4, Always Say Less Than Necessary, has an obvious contradiction.

James Thorton revealed this contradiction with his post earlier in this thread.

Man who can remember 48 damn laws? Please, without referencing, someone recite them.

Now, can you remember CENTS? There's "power" in simplicity.

Indeed, 48 Laws is a lengthy book. Writing such a book, and many afterwards, doesn't quite seem like saying less than necessary.

It's all about context.

In my own endeavors, I see how this applies to my sales calls.

I record all of my sales calls, because it helps me review key facts and factors that I may have missed in the call. It also allows me to identify follow-up points, and next action steps to make sure I get to the close.

Reviewing an important call yesterday, I noticed how I used way too many words to answer a potential strategic partner's, prospects, or client's question.

Today, the deals I chase have the potential to make me $10,000 - $15,000 at the bare minimum. In some cases, I have deals in my pipeline worth seven figures to me. Considering the stakes of these deals (not to mention how long it has taken me to get to this point), I have to make sure I play my cards perfectly in every engagement, in every meeting, on every phone call.

Both "Entering Action with Boldness" and "Crushing Your Enemy Totally" evokes thoughts of the 10X rule.


Before you assume that crushing an enemy totally necessarily involves doing something immoral, watch to 3:30 - 5:30. You have to crush your goals. You have annihilate your goals, go way past them, enter a sort of daily flow. Our brains like short-term goals, so completely nailing a goal, and then the next goal, and the next hacks into the brain's dopamine and serotonin treasure chest.

Filling the sales pipeline is the way to ensure success in sales. In any venture, the salesperson will have a closing ratio, a certain percentage of prospects that never buy, potential customers that never actually become customers.

On the other side of the coin, you have the prospects that you close, the potential customers that become actual customers. These are the signed papers that get the salesperson paid, the contracts that require companies to print checks with your name written on them, or to electronically deposit your winnings directly into your account.
 
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Bryan James

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"Let’s say that through some miscarriage of justice, you find yourself locked in prison tomorrow. Browsing through the prison library, you find there is one book that is constantly requested, but hard to get your hands on. What would you think that book was? Legal case STUDIES? Lock-picking manuals? The Bible perhaps? Close, but no cigar.

It’s none other than Robert Greene’s bestselling The 48 Laws of Power, which has sold over 1.2 million copies worldwide. Greene’s books are famously the most requested in correctional facilities across the United States, an achievement he bears with pride. (The author has a folder dedicated to the fan mail he receives from inmates).

Robert Greene material is banned in the prisons here in Texas. They're considered tools for manipulation.
 
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Olimac21

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What I don't understand is, from the books, one can tell that Greene is a genius at manipulation and all the inner workings of human behaviour. In short, he knows how to play the game of life. So, why is he still an author and not in a power of position (world/country leader, head of an international company, charismatic cult leader etc...)?

Technically he was a board member of American Appearel if I remember well, without having any kind of business education in his life and he could be considered charismatic cult leader in some ways (fans following his books or people who invite them to conferences, I have heard that even Berlusconi reached out to him once to talk about power).

In his area however you cannot deny the guy has been succesful and at the end what is best to be in the top 1% in your chosen field?
 

ShamanKing

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In the beginning.

@Achilles

@ChasingPaper

@S&P


"Let’s say that through some miscarriage of justice, you find yourself locked in prison tomorrow. Browsing through the prison library, you find there is one book that is constantly requested, but hard to get your hands on. What would you think that book was? Legal case STUDIES? Lock-picking manuals? The Bible perhaps? Close, but no cigar.

It’s none other than Robert Greene’s bestselling The 48 Laws of Power, which has sold over 1.2 million copies worldwide. Greene’s books are famously the most requested in correctional facilities across the United States, an achievement he bears with pride. (The author has a folder dedicated to the fan mail he receives from inmates).

However, it’s not just convicts who have taken to Greene’s works. His books are a favourite of WALL STREET executives, movie moguls and hip hop superstars. Some of his more notable fans include rappers Busta Rhymes, 50 Cent, Jay Z, and Kanye West.

With five international bestsellers on strategy power and seduction, Greene is the hero of schemers, manipulators and the power hungry; from the Hollywood elite to the lowliest criminal. If the subject matter of his books is anything to go by, you’d think he would present like a character from Game of Thrones, cold and conniving.

Yet for all his accolades, Greene seems astonishingly normal. A native of Los Angeles, Robert Greene currently lives a quiet life in a Spanish-style villa in the suburb of Los Feliz. -Foundrmag.com"


I've bought the book but not finished it yet. Great reading and I hope no one uses it with evil intentions.
 

GMSI7D

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Because he is an entertainer who sells books for normies who want to feel powerful, not a genius at manipulation. Greene's books are 50 Shades of Gray for wannabes.


come on

the guy is very smart. he understands society very well.

this is not entertainment at all. i hate entertainment . i am not on earth to belong to the crowd

and be entertained to death by society

i am not energy in someone else 's agenda like the crowd .

soc.jpg




his " 33 strategies of war " is a masterpiece. nobody writes like him.

yes his books are not for you the masses because you don't have to think deeply

you are on earth to be part of someone's agenda


his books are for deep thinkers that are managing society
 
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The Wall

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I understand your point of view but hardly agree with Greene's books. They are simply a way for him into the market. People tend to purchase things that have some specific message in it. His notable fans (50 cent, Jay Z, etc.) are fans because it adds to their public image (brutal ruthless taking advantage of others at their cost, etc) - which is what sells to the specific target market. It helps the rappers get more market share. The "hood" generally has a view of taking from others. And they generally need books and music like these to supply their belief of how the world works.

The truly successful people generally have continuous relationships - which are mutually beneficial. And they provide value - generally through actions of integrity. Even Robert Greene is adding value to the "hood" by giving them a form of education. Lol

Don't take his books too seriously.. he's not in a position of power, he is a writer. Of course certain contents of his books may be true - but he paints a very imaginary world where people only get ahead by acting in the way described in the book. The people in jail buy into what hes saying because they are in jail.. how do you think they got there in the first place? Lol

I see where you're coming from and I agree, he is JUST a writer, but a very skilled writer in aggregating and collating information and examples then putting them into an enjoyable to read form, much like Machiavelli did with The Prince.

It comes down to the reader in what they take away from his books. Some people may find clarity or enlightenment in his books, but for those people i'm certain a lot of people will read his books and come away learning absolutely nothing as they don't feel it relates to them or their world views.

TMF for example, I'm sure there are people who have enjoyed reading it yet there view on businesses, money and time haven't changed in the slightest.

Ultimately I find Robert Greenes books incredible for expanding my world view, relating with others and improving myself as person and if it was just his way of getting into the market, he's done a mighty fine job of it as I have certainly received value from them
 

The Wall

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Quite some time ago there was another quite popular business book, which wasn't initially intended as such (it was written in 17th century), called the 'Book of five rings'.

It depicts strategy (sword fighting), but it relates to far broader aspects of one’s life. I would say that 'The 48 laws of power' are mainly intended as ''deception'' or temporary methods, rather than as a way of life – which 'The Prince' and the 'Book of 5 rings' are.
Thus 'The 48 laws of power' is more event like (quick patch in the moment you need it), while the other 2 are more process oriented (a holistic suggestion of a ‘’way’’ to live by). Although the letter 2 are slightly outdated, they still apply and very worth reading.


p.s.: is it allowed to post affiliate marketing links in posts like this?
Wouldn’t it add to the forums Google ranking?

If you don't mind me asking, can you explain to me what makes "The 48 laws of power" an event compared to "The Prince" and "Book of 5 rings", i'd like to get your complete take on it.

You'll probably find the answer to your question here
https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/pages/about/#therules
 
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James Thornton

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Man who can remember 48 damn laws? Please, without referencing, someone recite them.

Now, can you remember CENTS? There's "power" in simplicity.
 
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The Wall

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@Ubermensch, you may have misinterpreted what side i'm agreeing with, maybe I wasn't clear enough

@The Wall

"I see where you're coming from and I agree, he is JUST a writer"

Hm.

He has some real life power, though. Just look at his strategic advising of the American Apparel corporation.

Machiavelli was "just" a writer, yet did he not instruct and guide The Prince, and future Princes (even in death), through the treacherous valleys and shadows of power games at the highest levels?

Not to get religious, but was Muhammad "just a writer"? Was Buddha? Were the authors of the Bible? The "JUST" context doesn't seem right at all here. Words shape the course of human history. I guess if you want to say someone is "JUST" a writer, you should contemplate just what the heck a writer is.

Would you say that the President of the United States is JUST the President? Of course not. So why apply the same word - in the same context - to the guy who is JUST a writer, yet his words of wisdom are guiding the President to determine the laws by which you live.

Robert Greene's name was just dropped in the last Mark Wahlberg movie, The Gambler. That's probably a testament to his real-life power. The guy who wrote the script is, JUST a writer, and he called Greene the modern-day Shakespeare. Subtly. Indirection.

Here I was referring to "The 48 Laws" as clear cut as @Sovereign refers to it having no duality, not Musashi's work. I'll also take on your recommendations after I've finished up with Ready, Aim, Fire thanks.

Robert Greene is JUST a writer just as much as I would call Michelangelo JUST an artist, both pinnacle examples of what being a writer or an artist is. As you stated though the context of me saying it was not very good.

@The Wall

"Is it not a "tactics" book per se as it does not apply to far broader aspects in life?"

Check out this link.

There is a difference between tactics and strategy, a very well-defined one. Greene's books are books on strategy, yet they also touch on tactics. I do not mean to offend you, but if you truly regard Greene's books as tactics - and not strategy - I think that is a pretty awesome misinterpretation. Greene is very explicitly focused on strategy. In fact, 33 Strategies of War contains a brilliant demonstration of how Sun-Tzu, long-term and strategic thinking defeats tactical thinking.



Robert Greene describes his favorite law in the 48 Laws, the Law of Formlessness: Law #48. This is the Law in which he describes the dichotomy between Chess and Go, between Western strategic thought and Eastern strategic thought. Look at the scholars of war quoted throughout the Sun-Tzu documentary. In some cases, they sound as if they reading from the pages of 50th Law, 33 Strategies of War, and the 48 Laws of Power. They all say the same thing: Focus on the long-term strategy, not the short-term reality in front of you.

I agree, Robert Greene is a very strategic and philosophically invoking writer and again, you may have misinterpreted it again, the question was directed at @Sovereign and questioning his definition of what a "tactics" book was, out of context it appears very different the question.


Also @Ubermensch a quick question if you may. What are your thoughts on Mastery? I personally loved it but find it hard to apply to business
 
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doncruz

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Robert Greene has nothing to do here.
I have read it, and it is nothing but a bunch of BS.
Sorry.
 
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doncruz

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I'll be fun to watch mister Greene to try starting a business using 15 century crap
 

GMM

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Whats the best Robert Greene book to get started with. 48 Laws?

The Art of War and Book of Five Rings have both had a big influence on my business mindset so Greene should be right up my alley.
 

GMM

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If you like Musashi, make you pick up a copy of Dr. HAHA Lung's books on mind manipulation and mental dominance. Perhaps more than any other author, Lung brilliantly captures the method in the mayhem, murder and madness behind the Musashi myth and legend.

In 33 Strategies of war, Greene also has a riveting section on some of Musashi's masterful myriad of murders.

Replace "killing and crushing the enemy" with "selling and closing the customer" and you will see clear and undeniable parallels between warfare and the boardroom (and the bedroom)."

Actually Dr. HAHA Lung made his way onto my reading list last night based off your recommendation on another thread. I am also in a business that involves cold calling and the books look great for applying to that purpose.

If you pick up the Art of Seduction, you might want to pay particular attention to the section on The Rake. As a Rake myself, I relate very strongly with that chapter, and I believe it contains the essence of the proper attitude when selling. A Rake passionately pursues his target until submission ensues. Usually, the sheer intensity of The Rake's approach forces the seduction to a close. Grant Cardone preaches obsessing over one's product, service, offering or business. Drink the Kool-Aid. If you know in your blood, in your bones, that your service or offering fulfills a massive need, then you should rightly obsessed. You should be obsessed, because it is an opportunity to impact the world. You should be obsesses, because it is an opportunity to make tons of money. You should obsess, draw pictures and diagrams, practice your pitch, perfect your script - all of this is basically auditory, free-styled copywriting. In an extremely enthusiastic mind, no reasonable objections exist for his offer. In that mental state, you will naturally muster the necessary words and energy to ultimately shine through in the marketplace.

Will definitely pick this up. Obsession resonates with me and that sounds like the mindset I am trying to develop.

To be perfectly honest, it has been quite some time since I took the time to actually read a book. Every book I take in these days, I take in via audiobook.

Have you ever read Noble House by James Clavell? It's a novel about 60's business in Hong Kong. If your ever looking for fiction that shows some of the concepts from these books in action you might enjoy it. I loved the feel of the business culture and it made me consider moving to Hong Kong. It's so long though...
 
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GuestUser450

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Appreciate the information but some if it reminds me that there's a wide, rational middle ground between conformity and conspiracy.
 
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Delmania

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Lol... no comment.

Even though I edited, I've been rereading Cell by Stephen King, and one of the comments in the book is that our prime directive as humans is murder. We became the apex predator for Earth because our brains and tool making abilities enabled us to kill anything that got in our way. We are after, all, the only species that has built (and used) a weapon that is more than capable of wiping of us out in a matter of minutes.
 
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LifeTransformer

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I'm impressed. One man is directly responsible for starting one of the bloodiest conflicts in history? That's some influence he had. Seriously, WWII had many causes, chiefly among them the unresolved issues from WWI, which in turn had roots in previous conflicts. If Hitler hadn't read Nietzche, he would have found some other way to justify his actions.

Why did you delete my white text?

I put underneath (in white text) I was joking.

He started World War 2.

hopefully white text works, I'm just joking of course.
 

Remnant

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Why did you delete my white text?

I put underneath (in white text) I was joking.

Not to step on any toes... it would be wise to look into hitler and his association with theosophy.

If we were blind to 'fastlane principles' before the fastlane, what other aspects of daily life/history are we being duped in? [HASHTAG]#foodforthought[/HASHTAG]
 

GMSI7D

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Even though I edited, I've been rereading Cell by Stephen King, and one of the comments in the book is that our prime directive as humans is murder. We became the apex predator for Earth because our brains and tool making abilities enabled us to kill anything that got in our way. We are after, all, the only species that has built (and used) a weapon that is more than capable of wiping of us out in a matter of minutes.

Human are part of Nature.

Nature is cruel.

therefore, human are cruel.

that's logic at work.

The point is not to ignore reality but to survive in a cruel universe and Greene's books are here for that.

By the way, something very bad is coming in 2016 because the law of cause and effect says so.


cause : human nature

effect : financial crisis
 
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Ayanle Farah

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That's not how I interpreted it. When I read his books it felt more like a series of warnings than a manual of how to be manipulative. I didn't feel it was asking me to reduce trust in other people, but was simply explaining the mechanisms behind bad behaviour and relationship outcomes that I'd already witnessed in real life, more like a "self defense" manual.

One of my friends, on the other hand, did feel this, and he said it made worry that people were trying to "get him", just like you put it. It might be a case that it's one of those books best read but also discussed with other people.

But as I always say: it's better to know the truth than a pleasant lie.
I thought of it like that at first but afterwards, it became clear the purpose of his books was to increase your paranoia.

48 Laws of Power: Everyone wants to enslave you
Art of Seduction: All women are after your money and status to ruin you.
33 Strategies of War: People are animals in disguise, all friendly gestures are a civil mask required by society, there is a subtle conflict brewing, everyone is at war.

Mastery appears to be the only exception, this new book of his seems to drive the same narrative as the other three.
 

Ayanle Farah

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I didn't say the advice cannot be applied to real life. I said his books are entertainment.

I also definitely did not say I am an authority on how to get into a "power position", whatever that is.

For a forum focused on business, there is more to learn from the spell his books create on their target market than from the books themselves.

It's easy to "think like a producer" when talking about products for which you are nowhere near the target market.

This is what I see constantly on this forum.

Who buys pet rocks? Not us, we think like producers!
Who buys fidget spinners? Not us, we think like producers!

Low hanging fruit. Who is thinking like a producer when the product is playing to your fantasies?

I mean, it is in the book itself, isn't it? Law 27, play on people's need to create a cultlike following. Law 32, play on people's fantasies.

Yes, I read the thing thoroughly. I enjoyed it. I learned from it. And I also understand it for what it is.

I like Greene's work very much. I like his branding even more. And I think there are valuable lessons in it for the people in this forum. That was the way I intended my post.

If my defining it entertainment causes you to react with negative emotions - and I'm not saying it did, maybe it did not, but that's the feeling I had from your post - then you should ask yourself why, when you have no horse in the race.
I read his books and didn't like it because it makes you distant from other people when you apply the stuff, though I don't like the principles and the hidden message in the books, I don't underestimate it.

That's why I was surprised when you reduced it to mere entertainment for "normies" in your post. I don't have negative emotions, not defending these books whatsoever.
 

Bryan James

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I'm a fan of Greene's books, but I'm more interested in the historical stories and sociological/psychological wisdom contained within them. I think if someone used his books as manuals for how to get to the top you'll likely attract a lot of enemies. I dunno. Very interesting material though. I believe a new book of his just came out or is about to.
 

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